Paradise, California Wildfires Causing Severe Damage

[Still_Small_Voice]

PARADISE, California (Associate Press) — A wildfire that moved so fast that firefighters couldn't hope to stop it quadrupled in size Friday after destroying several thousand buildings and leveling much of a Northern California town of nearly 30,000 people, authorities said.

Only a day after it began, the fire near the town of Paradise had grown to nearly 110 square miles (285 square kilometers), and authorities said it had claimed lives, although they offered no specific number or any details.

"There was really no firefight involved," said Capt. Scott McLean of the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, explaining that crews gave up attacking the flames and instead helped people evacuate. "These firefighters were in the rescue mode all day yesterday."

Read more here:  https://www.ksl.com/article/46423718/northern-california-wildfire-nearly-quadruples-in-size

[Still_Small_Voice]

I know someone who lives in Paradise, California.  They have not confirmed it yet but they believe their house has been burned up.

[Just_A_Guy]

Years ago my grandparents lived up there in a mobile home community for seniors. Pretty country.  I wonder if their old place made it through.  

[Guest]

I have relatives in Chico, the biggest city near that area.  I'll have to check with them.

EDIT:  I just found out that all my relatives in Chico have moved away over the past two years.  Wow.  Didn't know.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Guest

[Just_A_Guy]

The LDS meetinghouse burned down.  https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/2018-11-09/paradise-camp-fire-hits-latter-day-saint-families-hard-destroys-church-meetinghouse-48411?fbclid=IwAR1VAEckLpE8lTBMFA1V-oeH3JwGi0EvUqnr_6S6Tz52VVU-8ohylHji_JE

[NeedleinA]

22 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The LDS meetinghouse burned down.  https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/2018-11-09/paradise-camp-fire-hits-latter-day-saint-families-hard-destroys-church-meetinghouse-48411?fbclid=IwAR1VAEckLpE8lTBMFA1V-oeH3JwGi0EvUqnr_6S6Tz52VVU-8ohylHji_JE

Just in case it disappears.

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Just in case it disappears.

Heartbreaking pictures. 

[NeuroTypical]

A news service picked up the video an LDS couple posted as they escaped through the fire.  

https://gizmodo.com/video-shows-the-terrifying-drive-to-escape-massive-fire-1830331814

[NeedleinA]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

A news service picked up the video an LDS couple posted as they escaped through the fire.  

https://gizmodo.com/video-shows-the-terrifying-drive-to-escape-massive-fire-1830331814

Disclosure: I don't know much about fires like this.

How fast is a fire like this, I mean really? Fast like - one moment nothing, you use the bathroom and come out to find the whole neighborhood a blaze fast?
How is it that this family (from the video) is buried so deep in the apocalyptic flames that they can barely get out?
Sadly it makes me think of people (not the brightest kind) in the path of a hurricane but won't listen and evacuate when they are told to.
I wonder if they were also told to leave and then didn't?

[Vort]

12 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

A news service picked up the video an LDS couple posted as they escaped through the fire.  

https://gizmodo.com/video-shows-the-terrifying-drive-to-escape-massive-fire-1830331814

Pardon the French, but holy cow and sheez Louise.

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Sadly it makes me think of people (not the brightest kind) in the path of a hurricane but won't listen and evacuate when they are told to.
I wonder if they were also told to leave and then didn't?

Unless you're in an especially vulnerable place, like outdoors or in a cabana on the beach, you are overwhelmingly likely to be perfectly safe (if uncomfortable) hunkering down in your basement for a hurricane. A wildfire is a different animal. Probably wiser to get the heck out of Dodge before it becomes a raging inferno.

[Vort]

36 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Just in case it disappears.

We often hear the inspiring, faith-promoting stories of meetinghouses (or temples) being spared from this or that natural calamity. Perhaps that is true in some cases, but I have often wondered if such stories do more harm to people's faith than good. I think those stories set the unrealistic expectation that God will always protect from harm his people's belongings. Of course, that's silly, but it seems like a lot of people believe that. This might be an opportunity to remind ourselves that God allows his people to suffer loss, and that such loss doesn't make God less loving or the Church less true and authentic.

[NeuroTypical]

34 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Disclosure: I don't know much about fires like this.

How fast is a fire like this, I mean really?

So, I've actually lived through something like this a few years back.  (Sort of - our house was out of the trees, but the threat of smoldering ash and cinders falling from the sky was a very real threat.)  Yes, it can move dang fast, but pretty much everyone knows it's there unless it shows up after bedtime.  My fire killed two - a husband and wife who spent 3-4 hours making sure their neighbors were ok, and then when it came time to go, well, they waited too long and died in their garage trying to finish packing their stuff so they could get into their car and evacuate.

Here's what it looked like the day before we got evacuated:

It all has to do with how much time you want to spend packing.  As hours and days go by, and you don't get evacuated, complacency can become a dangerous thing.  You finally get the call, and shucks, it ain't any worse than it was two hours ago, surely the wind will die down or the extra helicopters showing up will fix everything, right?

I don't know, but it's possible the people in this video sat on their complacent butts and didn't evacuate until things got this bad.  It happens.  Not everyone who drives through something like this lives. 

Agency is the ability to choose.  You can lose your agency in natural disasters like fires.  You can contribute to losing it by choosing to stay and pack instead of leaving when you can.

 

Here's what it looked like after.  Some got lucky, some didn't. Firefighters picked their battles, fought to defend some structures, chose to not defend others. It's part of their job.

Edited November 9, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[NeedleinA]

13 minutes ago, Vort said:

We often hear the inspiring, faith-promoting stories of meetinghouses (or temples) being spared from this or that natural calamity. Perhaps that is true in some cases, but I have often wondered if such stories do more harm to people's faith than good. I think those stories set the unrealistic expectation that God will always protect from harm his people's belongings. Of course, that's silly, but it seems like a lot of people believe that. This might be an opportunity to remind ourselves that God allows his people to suffer loss, and that such loss doesn't make God less loving or the Church less true and authentic.

100% agree on this point.

[mikbone]

I live in Redding an hour north of Paradise, and this is the biblical fire tornado that hit my town 2 months ago.  It moved freakin fast.

[Vort]

19 minutes ago, mikbone said:

I live in Redding an hour north of Paradise, and this is the biblical fire tornado that hit my town 2 months ago.  It moved freakin fast.

This gives you an idea of what it meant in World War II to "firebomb" a city. It involved dropping so much ordnance on a city that the entire city caught fire, creating its own microclimate that sucked air in from below and spewed it out in towering flames, destroying the entire city.

We often think that atomic bombs are so destructive because the blast is so powerful. It is true, of course, that the blast is unbelievably powerful; but the majority of the lasting damage done to Hiroshima was done by the firestorm that followed the bombing. Turns out that nuclear weapons are a convenient way of firebombing a city without having to send thousands of planes to drop hundreds of thousands or millions of pounds of munition. One bomb and the city is firebombed.

[mikbone]

[classylady]

As a kid, I lived about 32 miles south west of Paradise. I remember Paradise as a pretty little town. This breaks my heart. Butte County is my old stomping grounds, where I was born, went to Elementary School, etc. It is very emotional for me to watch all the footage of the fire. I pray the fire will soon be out. Luckily, any family I have in northern Calif. all live in the Sacramento area.

[askandanswer]

On 11/10/2018 at 8:50 AM, NeedleinA said:

How fast is a fire like this, I mean really? Fast like - one moment nothing, you use the bathroom and come out to find the whole neighborhood a blaze fast?

There are several variables that determine the speed of a fire. Some of the main variables are the strength and speed of the wind, the amount of moisture in the soil, vegetation and air, and the level of fuel load on the ground. 

[NeuroTypical]

What's happening in Paradise, CA, seems to be unprecidented.  An entire town going up in flames is something that happened when someone firebombs their enemy in WWII.  It's not something that really happens in 1st world countries.    This morning I heard about dozens confirmed dead, hundreds missing, people abandoning their cars and dying 100 feet away, other horrible stories.  When Santa Rosa was on fire a year or two ago it wasn't this bad.  

We hear an evacuation might be coming, it's common nature to be a tad complacent.  It probably won't come.  We'll pack later.  The wind is blowing away from us.  People wait for the official evac order before they start packing.   I bet you all we'll hear these stories in the weeks to come from California, as they find bodies.

No really - if you're within 30 miles of a fire, now is the time to pack.  Pre-evacuation status is to pack like your life will be on the line in an hour or less.  Evacuation orders are to run for your lives, prepared or not, whether you see an imminent threat or not.

If you don't use twitter, a natural disaster is a fine time to start.  Local cops PIO, sheriffs office Twitter account, Homeland security, State Highway Patrol, local news station - one or two of them will take the lead and be the go-to place for official information.  Find it and allow instant notiications.

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Just_A_Guy]

I am visiting family in the Sacramento area today and an evacuee from Paradise was in priesthood meeting.  Someone asked him “so, you’ve lost everything, then?” and he looked down at himself (he was dressed quite casually) and cheerily said “nope.  Still got my Levi’s”.

We’re being asked to hold off on in-kind donations, stay out of the area, and beef up our fast offerings.  

[NeuroTypical]

3 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

We’re being asked to hold off on in-kind donations, stay out of the area, and beef up our fast offerings.  

Fast offerings.  Absolutely.  Want to help that family that lost their home and needs to stay in a hotel for 6 weeks?  Fast offerings.  New mom is staying with grandma and her 6 month old lost all her clothes?  Fast offerings.  Folks were doing fine and paying bills, but both dad and mom's employers burned down, and they've had to take 1.5 jobs each making less than they were, and they're about to lose their car that gets them to work?  Fast offerings.  People have an immediate need, and are still 6 months away from their insurance check?  Fast offerings.

People will be migrating to new areas of the country looking for work because of this.  Many will not have saved up 6 months of emergency funds, which is a good average for such things.  As a finance clerk, I've had the honor of helping the bishop help new move-ins to our ward - they lost their job somewhere else, got a new job here, and just need a little help until the paychecks start kicking in.  Fast offerings will cover mortgage, car payment, utilities, medication, medical bills, storage units, etc.   This is what I do as finance clerk, and we're about to have to do a whole bunch more of it because of these fires. 

There aren't any overhead costs.  My bishop isn't being paid to distribute these funds, neither am I.  Neither is the guy who will be by in a few months to audit me, to make sure I've allocated the Lord's funds appropriately.  

No really - we spend a lot of time thinking about which charity is the best - I gotta say:

 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Just_A_Guy]

By the way, the gentleman I mentioned said that a lot of the population in Paradise are retirees who feel they are too far along in life to rebuild and start over again; so many/most of them won’t be coming back.  

[JohnsonJones]

In some areas of the West winds get very high from what I understand.  A Hurricane went through the South East in some places and we considered sustained winds over 74 mph.

In some areas of the West they seasonally experience winds that are between 60-80 mph (especially in Southern Idaho/Northern Utah).

I think some places in Cal. also have this (no idea if Paradise was one of these locations).

Wildfires that consume several acres can get out of hand without any wind.  When wind is blowing at such a great speed (as posted above) or even at a sustained rate of over 50 mph with gusts even greater that fire can spread almost as fast.  Think of a wildfire racing along at 50 MPH...or more likely slower at 10-20 MPH.  You probably cannot outrun that.  I have no idea how the forest service (or others) stop fires in high wind areas when they get started.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

In some areas of the West winds get very high from what I understand.  A Hurricane went through the South East in some places and we considered sustained winds over 74 mph.

In some areas of the West they seasonally experience winds that are between 60-80 mph (especially in Southern Idaho/Northern Utah).

I think some places in Cal. also have this (no idea if Paradise was one of these locations).

Wildfires that consume several acres can get out of hand without any wind.  When wind is blowing at such a great speed (as posted above) or even at a sustained rate of over 50 mph with gusts even greater that fire can spread almost as fast.  Think of a wildfire racing along at 50 MPH...or more likely slower at 10-20 MPH.  You probably cannot outrun that.  I have no idea how the forest service (or others) stop fires in high wind areas when they get started.

Pretty much anywhere in the US has 50-60 mph winds nearly every year.  And most places in the US have a fairly high frequency of 80 mph winds.  The west coast (by government mandate) has forbidden winds over 80 mph.  They only allow a maximum of 75 mph to blow in their jurisdictions.  So...

Edited November 12, 2018 by Guest