Brainwashing our Children with Religion

[clbent04]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

I take my children to church, teach them, and encourage them to think for themselves.

Forcing your children to be Mormon without their consent and understanding can only harbor future problems.

 

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

My faith is in God.  When we go to church I make sure that my children are taught correct principles (sometimes they are not).  And I teach them to think and seek out their own testimonies.

This post is about ‘brainwashing’ I will not brainwash my children.

Spot on.

[Guest MormonGator]

13 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Yep. Agreed. I really think that's part of the reason why my brother is atheist now.

How does a parent know if the kid is struggling with faith on the inside? The kid might be going through the motions just to please them but on the inside thinking "I don't believe a word of this." So the reality is that parents don't know what the kid really thinks.  I knew so many kids when I was younger who were altar boys/good Catholic girls but in reality didn't believe a word of it. It's probably the same in many religions. 

 

[clbent04]

1 hour ago, Tyme said:

If you don't brainwash/teach them somebody else will. They get brainwashed in society to act a certain way. They get brainwashed at school. They get brainwashed in church. They get brainwashed at home.

Parents who don't teach their children to think for themselves are leaving their children defenseless for any kind of brainwashing to happen be it at school, church, or wherever.  I want to work with my 2-year old as she gets older to help her develop a healthy questioning for all things.  I will lead her the best I can with what I believe, but I never would want her to blindly follow anything including being a Latter-day Saint just because I am.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, clbent04 said:

Parents who don't teach their children to think for themselves are leaving their children defenseless for any kind of brainwashing to happen be it at school, church, or wherever.  I want to work with my 2-year old as she gets older to help her develop a healthy questioning for all things.  I will lead her the best I can with what I believe, but I never would want her to blindly follow anything including being a Latter-day Saint just because I am.

The best thing to do is teach children how to think, not what to think. After all, if you are convinced that what you believe is true-what do you have to fear?

[The Folk Prophet]

4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

The best thing to do is teach children how to think, not what to think. After all, if you are convinced that what you believe is true-what do you have to fear?

I fear that my children won't know what to think because I didn't teach them.

[clbent04]

10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I fear that my children won't know what to think because I didn't teach them.

Ok.

[clbent04]

32 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

The best thing to do is teach children how to think, not what to think. After all, if you are convinced that what you believe is true-what do you have to fear?

Agree. Parallel to what Joseph Smith taught, “I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.” Don't just hand them the finished product. Help them develop the tools to build it themselves.

Edited December 2, 2018 by clbent04

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Agree. Parallel to what Joseph Smith taught, “I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.” Don't just hand them the finished product. Help them develop the tools to build it themselves.

Yup, 100% agree.

In the end, it's not my problem. How you raise your children is none of my business. I can feel sorry for them, because I don't think teaching someone what to think is particularly healthy-but other than that, all I can do is focus on my own family. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by MormonGator

[let’s roll]

2 hours ago, Fether said:

On paper this sounds great, but the truth of the matter is this. The Church if Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church on the Earth. failing/refusing to teach your children this is a huge failure and you will likely end up in some sort of condemnation.

 

My response was intended to be nuanced.  Let me expound, briefly.  If asked by the Savior, “what seek ye?”, a parent could answer, “l want my children to be active in the Church.”  Or could answer “l want my child to know and be led by their Heavenly Father and their Savior.”

l suggest accomplishing the latter will result in the former being true as well, while accomplishing the former doesn’t ensure the latter.

[boxer]

1 hour ago, clbent04 said:

Parents who don't teach their children to think for themselves

I have never bought into this "think for themselves" idea.  A child is obviously going to "think for themself", they do it all the time! Anytime your child disobeys, doesn't turn in their homework, teases the dog, gets in a fight, does something they aren't supposed to they are "thinking for themself". 

You don't need to teach a child to "think for themself" they already do!

It's just like this idiotic notion that a parent must tell a child all the reasons why when they are told to do something.   If you really want to get a child to "think for themselves" don't give them a reason!  Bedtime is at 8pm . . .but why Dad? The "but why", is most certainly not a request for information. You can either give them a long-winded answer that they won't accept, don't care for and won't listen to ooooorrrr just say "Because I said so", and when you're old enough to figure it out you won't have to ask me.

Don't feed a kid all the answers all the time and they will most certainly "think for themselves"

Edited December 2, 2018 by boxer

[boxer]

5 hours ago, clbent04 said:

We were never taught to think for ourselves when it came to accepting a religion.  We simply were told the LDS Church was the one and only answer for all those years under our parents' roof.

This later came to have a negative effect on me as I realized all that time I went to church it wasn't because it was something I had personally accepted.

I think you have drawn the wrong conclusions from your upbringing. Your parents didn't "brainwash you", they did what the scriptures say, "train up a child in the way he shall go and when he is old he will not depart far from it".

Yes everyone will eventually have to personally accept the gospel-but they trained you in the proper way so that when you were old enough to make the decision you were well-prepared to do so. Statistics bear it out, the children who end up following in their parents faith are the ones who's parents were "devoted" to the faith.

If you teach a child, well maybe this is the right path, maybe it's not . . .they very well may decide no thankyou!  But teach a child, this is the right path, when they become an adult they will have to make the decision---do I continue on this path?-more likely than not they will say sure.

It's really fascinating to see "believers" tap-dance around this issue.  No one EVER says, you know I want my child to think for himself about whether it's okay to smoke cigarettes! or you know I want my child to "think for himself" about pre-marital sex!  The ones who do that-those are the kids who are smoking and having sex!

Yet, "believers" will do the same exact thing with religion.  I want my child to "think for himself" about Church . . .yeah well good luck he'll be the first one to fall away.

[boxer]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

We were required to wake up for morning prayers and companion / self study at 6:30 AM.  And it was recommended that we wake up earlier than that of our own accord.

I’m not saying that I was brainwashed, but that the situation made we wonder more than once if some of the program was not inspired.

They have since removed the requirement to memorize the discussions word for word.  But the fake investigators persist.  

I recogonize that it is a dufficult proposition to train the missionaries in such a short time to get ready for the field.  And Im not sure what I would do if I was in charge of the MTC.

Oh please.  Getting up at 6:30 sleep deprivation.  Dude they have you in bed by 1030, that's 8 hours of sleep.  It's called a training program for a reason.  Stop making it out to be some boogy man "brain-washing" camp.

[mikbone]

3 minutes ago, boxer said:

Oh please.  Getting up at 6:30 sleep deprivation.  Dude they have you in bed by 1030, that's 8 hours of sleep.  It's called a training program for a reason.  Stop making it out to be some boogy man "brain-washing" camp.

I got up at 5:30 to study the BoM.  

It was a pretty odd experience.  The role-playing drove me nutz.  I was happy to move into the real world.

 

[Midwest LDS]

I don't think it's brainwashing to raise your kids in the Gospel of Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's church restored in it's fullness on the Earth. I'm going to teach my daughter that unequivocally. I believe that's my job as her dad and that's backed up by scripture. D and C 68:25

"25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents"

If I don't raise her in the Gospel, all of her sins fall on my head. I will not allow her to struggle in darkness in a misguided attempt to be open minded. She may choose evil later in life, but if she does it will not be because she is ignorant of the truth. Now, that being said, I think a mistake a lot of parents make is being adverse to questions. I will allow my daughter to ask questions about our faith, and if I don't know the answer, I'll tell her "I don't know. Let's look that up together". You can raise your children in your faith without "brainwashing" them.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Ok.

I can't help but wonder how it is that you square up good, kind, virtuous, lovely, and all that, with replying snarkilly to everything I post lately regardless of whether I was even talking to you. At the best, if you want to interject yourself into something I've said to someone else, you could actually make some attempt to be civil with me, and actually discuss the points at hand. At the least -- butt out! I have no interest in interacting with someone who's going to treat me this way for no good reason.

[boxer]

33 minutes ago, mikbone said:

I got up at 5:30 to study the BoM.  

It was a pretty odd experience.  The role-playing drove me nutz.  I was happy to move into the real world.

 

Of your own choice- you got up at 5:30.  No one made you do it, even if someone suggested it, there was no bell waking you up at 530.

[askandanswer]

7 hours ago, mikbone said:

We teach them correct principles and they govern themselves.

As a method of raising children, I think this approach has some major short comings. Children should rarely be left to govern themselves. The dangers of this approach were well illustrated in William Golding's novel "Lord of the Flies. There is far more to raising children than just teaching them. 

[askandanswer]

8 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I feel sorry for parents. 

Well I sure feel sorry for your parents. Probably all their friends do as well.  

[askandanswer]

Just a (hopefully unnecessary reminder, ) that at the very least, Latter-Day Saint parents are commanded by scripture to teach the following

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 68:25 - 28)
25  And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26  For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27  And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
28  And they shall also teach their children to pray, and to walk uprightly before the Lord.

I notice that this direction is more about the content of what to teach, and says nothing about how to teach. 

[mikbone]

3 hours ago, askandanswer said:

As a method of raising children, I think this approach has some major short comings. Children should rarely be left to govern themselves. The dangers of this approach were well illustrated in William Golding's novel "Lord of the Flies. There is far more to raising children than just teaching them. 

Oh, there are many ways to teach.  One of the best, is by example.  Kind of like how the Savior taught...

You don’t know me or my family.  If you think that my home is lord of the flies, then you are making assumptions.

I could just as easily make the comment that your household is run with a satanic influence.  That you and your spouse dont allow your children to make their own decisions.  And punish them whenever they step out of line.  

How does that feel?

[boxer]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

Oh, there are many ways to teach.  One of the best, is by example.  Kind of like how the Savior taught...

You don’t know me or my family.  If you think that my home is lord of the flies, then you are making assumptions.

I could just as easily make the comment that your household is run with a satanic influence.  That you and your spouse dont allow your children to make their own decisions.  And punish them whenever they step out of line.  

How does that feel?

Why don't you explain then? You've already twisted the MTC experience into "brainwashing" even though that is a complete farse. 

Anyone who has been a missionary and stayed faithful would certainly not put much weight on your words bc your perspective is quite off.

 

And if discipling your children when they get it out of line is a "satanic" influence then I'd be glad to be influenced by it!

Edited December 2, 2018 by boxer

[mikbone]

2 hours ago, boxer said:

Why don't you explain then? You've already twisted the MTC experience into "brainwashing" even though that is a complete farse. 

Anyone who has been a missionary and stayed faithful would certainly not put much weight on your words bc your perspective is quite off.

Explain what?

That teaching people and children to think for themselves is a bad thing.

I went through the MTC in ‘89.  I don’t have your recollection of the MTC.

But I remember the way we were taught to give the discussions memorized word for word.  And that we were to identify the holy ghost during the discussion even if we did not feel it.

This pratice has changed.  And many more changes are in store. 

Let me share with you an excerpt from one of President Monson’s favorite Christmas Stories. From The Mansion...

 

But in the paternal philosophy there was something that disquieted and oppressed the young man, and made him gasp inwardly for fresh air and free action.

At times, during his college course and his years at the law school, he had yielded to this impulse and broken away--now toward extravagance and dissipation, and then, when the reaction came, toward a romantic devotion to work among the poor. He had felt his father's disapproval for both of these forms of imprudence; but is was never expressed in a harsh or violent way, always with a certain tolerant patience, such as one might show for the mistakes and vagaries of the very young. John Weightman was not hasty, impulsive, inconsiderate, even toward his own children. With them, as with the rest of the world, he felt that he had a reputation to maintain, a theory to vindicate. He could afford to give them time to see that he was absolutely right.

One of his favorite Scripture quotations was, "Wait on the Lord."

He had applied it to real estate and to people, with profitable results.

But to human persons the sensation of being waited for is not always agreeable. Sometimes, especially with the young, it produces a vague restlessness, a dumb resentment, which is increased by the fact that one can hardly explain or justify it. Of this John Weightman was not conscious. It lay beyond his horizon. He did not take it into account in the plan of life which he made for himself and for his family as the sharers and inheritors of his success.

"Father plays us," said Harold, in a moment of irritation, to his mother, "like pieces in a game of chess.

"My dear," said that lady, whose faith in her husband was religious, "you ought not to speak so impatiently. At least he wins the game. He is one of the most respected men in New York. And he is very generous, too."

"I wish he would be more generous in letting us be ourselves," said the young man. "He always has something in view for us and expects to move us up to it."

"But isn't it always for our benefit?" replied his mother. "Look what a position we have. No one can say there is any taint on our money. There are no rumors about your father. He has kept the laws of God and of man. He has never made any mistakes." Harold got up from his chair and poked the fire. Then he came back to the ample, well-gowned, firm-looking lady, and sat beside her on the sofa. He took her hand gently and looked at the two rings--a thin band of yellow gold, and a small solitaire diamond--which kept their place on her third finger in modest dignity, as if not shamed, but rather justified, by the splendor of the emerald which glittered beside them. "Mother," he said, "you have a wonderful hand. And father made no mistake when he won you. But are you sure he has always been so inerrant?"

 

BTW -  The Christmas Devotional is tonight!!!

Edited December 2, 2018 by mikbone

[clbent04]

11 hours ago, Midwest LDS said:

I don't think it's brainwashing to raise your kids in the Gospel of Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's church restored in it's fullness on the Earth. I'm going to teach my daughter that unequivocally. I believe that's my job as her dad and that's backed up by scripture. D and C 68:25

It's brainwashing if you don't encourage open dialogue and healthy questioning to help them understand what it is you believe, and more importantly, why are you dragging them along for the ride.

Help them embrace the gospel by allowing them to come to their own conclusions about it.  Don't put words in their mouth so they just regurgitate what they think you want to hear. Let them know you really value what they personally think and feel, even if they start speaking and it's nothing profound and maybe even sounds silly. Be patient and encourage discussion even if it starts off slowly. Give them positive reinforcement for expressing the simplest of observations.

Sit down with them and say, you know what, there's a whole lot to believe in this world, and here's what these other groups believe, and this is what I believe and know to be true because of A, B, C...  Tell them why it's important to you that you bring them with you to church every Sunday.

Even if they don't have a say in the matter about attending church services with you, they will remember you taking the time to have open dialogue with them. They will be grateful in their later years knowing you valued and took the time to listen to their own thoughts and feelings. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by clbent04

[Grunt]

Why in the world would I waste my children's time teaching them to investigate other religions?   It serves no purpose and doesn't add to their progression.  It's like telling your kids to investigate heroin.  

[Grunt]

4 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

It's brainwashing if you don't encourage open dialogue and healthy questioning to help them understand what it is you believe, and more importantly, why are you dragging them along for the ride.

Help them embrace the gospel by allowing them to come to their own conclusions about it.  Don't put words in their mouth so they just regurgitate what they think you want hear. Let them know you really value what they personally think and feel, even if they start speaking and it's nothing profound and maybe even sounds silly. Be patient and encourage discussion even if it starts off slowly. Give them positive reinforcement for expressing the simplest of observations.

Sit down with them and say, you know what, there's a whole lot to believe in this world, and here's what these other groups believe, and this is what I believe and know to be true because of A, B, C...  Tell them why it's important to you that you bring them with you to church every Sunday.

Even if they don't have a say in the matter about attending church services with you, they will remember you taking the time to have open dialogue with them. They will be grateful in their later years knowing you valued and took the time to listen to their own thoughts and feelings. 

Why in the world would you encourage apostasy in your kids?  Why do you spend so much time on things that harm your faith and testimony?  Why do you try to encourage others to do the same?

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Grunt