Brainwashing our Children with Religion

[clbent04]

7 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Just a (hopefully unnecessary reminder, ) that at the very least, Latter-Day Saint parents are commanded by scripture to teach the following

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 68:25 - 28)
25  And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
26  For this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized.
27  And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old, and receive the laying on of the hands.
28  And they shall also teach their children to pray, and to walk uprightly before the Lord.

I notice that this direction is more about the content of what to teach, and says nothing about how to teach. 

Emphasis on the last part you wrote there. No where am I saying to not teach your children the gospel. We have an obligation as Latter-day Saints to do that. But how you do it is up to you. If you don't want to encourage critical thinking at a young age and simply stick to the flashcards, that's your prerogative as a parent.

Edited December 2, 2018 by clbent04

[Midwest LDS]

14 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

It's brainwashing if you don't encourage open dialogue and healthy questioning to help them understand what it is you believe, and more importantly, why are you dragging them along for the ride.

Help them embrace the gospel by allowing them to come to their own conclusions about it.  Don't put words in their mouth so they just regurgitate what they think you want hear. Let them know you really value what they personally think and feel, even if they start speaking and it's nothing profound and maybe even sounds silly. Be patient and encourage discussion even if it starts off slowly. Give them positive reinforcement for expressing the simplest of observations.

Sit down with them and say, you know what, there's a whole lot to believe in this world, and here's what these other groups believe, and this is what I believe and know to be true because of A, B, C...  Tell them why it's important to you that you bring them with you to church every Sunday.

Even if they don't have a say in the matter about attending church services with you, they will remember you taking the time to have open dialogue with them. They will be grateful in their later years knowing you valued and took the time to listen to their own thoughts and feelings. 

I understand what you are trying to say, and I do believe in having an open dialogue with my child. As I said, when she's old enough she will always be able to ask me questions, and I will teach her what others believe in a kind and loving way so she will be understanding of others. But I will teach her that this church is the one and only true one on the Earth, that's my responsibility as her dad.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Midwest LDS

[Guest MormonGator]

33 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Why in the world would I waste my children's time teaching them to investigate other religions?  

It's actually a good idea that your kids have a basic understanding of the outside world, that includes religions other than your own. They don't have to pray to Buddha/Ganesh/Zoroaster but they should know the basics. Sheltering your kids from other religions/lifestyles makes it easier for them to become prejudice against them. 

Besides, if you choose to not introduce your kids to other religions, you lose the right to preach about your own church to other families. 

[askandanswer]

5 hours ago, mikbone said:

Oh, there are many ways to teach.  One of the best, is by example.  Kind of like how the Savior taught...

You don’t know me or my family.  If you think that my home is lord of the flies, then you are making assumptions.

I could just as easily make the comment that your household is run with a satanic influence.  That you and your spouse dont allow your children to make their own decisions.  And punish them whenever they step out of line.  

How does that feel?

My comment is not directed at anyone in particular and I stand by my belief that there is more to raising children than just teaching them correct principles and then allowing them to govern themselves. 

[askandanswer]

50 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

It's actually a good idea that your kids have a basic understanding of the outside world, that includes religions other than your own. They don't have to pray to Buddha/Ganesh/Zoroaster but they should know the basics. Sheltering your kids from other religions/lifestyles makes it easier for them to become prejudice against them. 

Besides, if you choose to not introduce your kids to other religions, you lose the right to preach about your own church to other families. 

Some months before my eldest son went on his mission, he asked me repeatedly if he could attend meetings of several other religions and I consistently said no, so he did not attend. He said he thought it would be useful mission preparation to learn more about other churches. I agreed, but I thought that there were even more useful ways in which he could prepare and that the best way to prepare was to learn more from/at/about the church that had the all of the pure doctrine of Christ. After his mission he commented/complained about me not letting him attend other churches before his mission and said that he felt he could have been a more effective missionary if he'd had a better understanding of other religions. I guess my position now is that some exposure to/experience of other churches prior to his mission would have been useful, but such exposure should not come at the expense of personal testimony building and improving one's knowledge of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

[The Folk Prophet]

11 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

My comment is not directed at anyone in particular and I stand by my belief that there is more to raising children than just teaching them correct principles and then allowing them to govern themselves. 

Technically I think that's probably all there is to it really. What comes into question is what, exactly, is involved in "teaching".

[Guest MormonGator]

13 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

Some months before my eldest son went on his mission, he asked me repeatedly if he could attend meetings of several other religions and I consistently said no, so he did not attend. He said he thought it would be useful mission preparation to learn more about other churches. I agreed, but I thought that there were even more useful ways in which he could prepare and that the best way to prepare was to learn more from/at/about the church that had the all of the pure doctrine of Christ. After his mission he commented/complained about me not letting him attend other churches before his mission and said that he felt he could have been a more effective missionary if he'd had a better understanding of other religions. I guess my position now is that some exposure to/experience of other churches prior to his mission would have been useful, but such exposure should not come at the expense of personal testimony building and improving one's knowledge of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

 I obviously have a different perspective on it. After all, it would be hypocrisy times five if I told someone not to investigate other religions. 

Me-"Don't investigate other religions."
Everyone-"But Gator, if you didn't investigate other religions, you wouldn't have become LDS."
 

[Midwest LDS]

10 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 I obviously have a different perspective on it. After all, it would be hypocrisy times five if I told someone not to investigate other religions. 

Me-"Don't investigate other religions."
Everyone-"But Gator, if you didn't investigate other religions, you wouldn't have become LDS."
 

I agree. One of my favourite things to do is visiting other people's sacred sites and asking them about their beliefs so I can understand them better. I got so frustrated with people deliberately misunderstanding my beliefs as a teenager, that I went out of my way to try and understand others by talking to them about theirs. It was a great learning experience, and helped me out a lot on my mission and later in life. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Midwest LDS

[lostinwater]

Every child gets tons of good and bad information fed into them.  Usually it can flow freely in and out - and what stays is what the person is able to absorb and use in healthy ways - and the other stuff flows away.  

One of my favorite quotes that i think applies here is from Tara Westover's book Educated.  It gets at the heart of what i feel to be brainwashing.

"He had defined me to myself, and there’s no greater power than that.”

[mikbone]

 

[boxer]

5 hours ago, Grunt said:

Why in the world would you encourage apostasy in your kids?  Why do you spend so much time on things that harm your faith and testimony?  Why do you try to encourage others to do the same?

 

Because grunt it's the new age "parenting" philosophy. If you actually train your kids your a "bad" parent, but teach a kid to "think for himself" and you are a good parent. As if "thinking for yourself" is the end goal of raising a kid. It stupidity and it's why the current generation is screwed up.

[boxer]

4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

It's actually a good idea that your kids have a basic understanding of the outside world, that includes religions other than your own. They don't have to pray to Buddha/Ganesh/Zoroaster but they should know the basics. Sheltering your kids from other religions/lifestyles makes it easier for them to become prejudice against them. 

Besides, if you choose to not introduce your kids to other religions, you lose the right to preach about your own church to other families. 

The flaw in that is there is only so much time to actually teach.

[askandanswer]

5 hours ago, MormonGator said:

 I obviously have a different perspective on it. After all, it would be hypocrisy times five if I told someone not to investigate other religions. 

Me-"Don't investigate other religions."
Everyone-"But Gator, if you didn't investigate other religions, you wouldn't have become LDS."
 

Once you have found that which is of most worth, anything else you find thereafter is likely to be of lesser worth, If you continue looking around you are likely to encounter the law of diminishing returns. 

[Grunt]

8 hours ago, MormonGator said:

It's actually a good idea that your kids have a basic understanding of the outside world, that includes religions other than your own. They don't have to pray to Buddha/Ganesh/Zoroaster but they should know the basics. Sheltering your kids from other religions/lifestyles makes it easier for them to become prejudice against them. 

Besides, if you choose to not introduce your kids to other religions, you lose the right to preach about your own church to other families. 

That's absolutely false.  If I don't shoot heroin I lose the right to tell people heroin is bad?  You teach your children what is good.  The world attempts to teach them what is bad.  My "open-mindedness isn't what gives me the "right" to preach to other families.  The command from God does.  

 

[Guest MormonGator]

11 minutes ago, Grunt said:

That's absolutely false.  If I don't shoot heroin I lose the right to tell people heroin is bad?  You teach your children what is good.  The world attempts to teach them what is bad.  My "open-mindedness isn't what gives me the "right" to preach to other families.  The command from God does.  

 

Yup, like I said, I see it very differently. 

[Grunt]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Yup, like I said, I see it very differently. 

I know you do.  Being that I'm following Heavenly Father's command, I'm pretty comfortable with my stance.  I missed the part where he tells me to teach them Islam.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Grunt

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Grunt said:

I know you do.  Being that I'm following Heavenly Father's command, I'm pretty comfortable with my stance.  I missed the part where he tells me to teach them Islam.

The irony is that as comfortable as you with your stance-I'm just as comfortable with mine, because I believe the Church of Latter Day Saints is the true church. Therefore, it can handle teaching it's members about other faiths. After all, truth doesn't really fear inquiry or researching other faiths. Lies do-but the truth can pretty much stand on it's on.  

[The Folk Prophet]

You're both right. 

[Grunt]

Just now, MormonGator said:

The irony is that as comfortable as you with your stance-I'm just as comfortable with mine, because I believe the Church of Latter Day Saints is the true church. Therefore, it can handle teaching it's members about other faiths. After all, truth doesn't really fear inquiry or researching other faiths. Lies do-but the truth can pretty much stand on it's on.  

As I said, I know you are.  Whether or not truth fears inquiry is irrelevant.  Children leave the church all the time.  Adults stop attending church and the temple.  They stop tithing.  Why give your children a reason?

I have limited time every day to teach my children about Heavenly Father.  I have limited amount of time each day to study scripture with my family.  Telling my kids "here are lots of different ideas, I believe this one.  You figure it out on your own" is NOT doing them any favors or setting them up for success.  

If you believe taking the limited time you have with your children and use it teaching them false doctrine then you probably aren't on as solid ground as you think.  

[let’s roll]

51 minutes ago, Grunt said:

That's absolutely false.  If I don't shoot heroin I lose the right to tell people heroin is bad?  You teach your children what is good.  The world attempts to teach them what is bad.  My "open-mindedness isn't what gives me the "right" to preach to other families.  The command from God does.  

 

Comparing other religions to shooting heroin?  Ouch. 

God commanded all His children to share the Gospel.  Which is why when someone tries to share their faith with me, I try to be respectful, find common ground and build on the good that they have in their faith.  After all, all they are doing is acting on the light they have.

I trust that our children, in seeing our willingness to openly, and respectfully, discuss faith with others (which would include being willing to gain a basic understanding of the tenets of that faith) would feel a spirit of love towards God’s children and our brothers and sisters.

[Grunt]

1 minute ago, let’s roll said:

Comparing other religions to shooting heroin?  Ouch. 

God commanded all His children to share the Gospel.  Which is why when someone tries to share their faith with me, I try to be respectful, find common ground and build on the good that they have in their faith.  After all, all they are doing is acting on the light they have.

I trust that our children, in seeing our willingness to openly, and respectfully, discuss faith with others (which would include being willing to gain a basic understanding of the tenets of that faith) would feel a spirit of love towards God’s children and our brothers and sisters.

Two different things.  I love discussing faith with members of other churches.  I'm not only respectful, but I also encourage it.  I love to learn.  

That said, this topic isn't about hiding other faiths from your children.  It's about "brainwashing" our children with the Book of Mormon.  That's the context of my post.

[clbent04]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

shoot heroin

Was Ammon “shooting heroin” when he went to live among the Lamanities and learned their culture before he ever attempted preaching?

Did my Mission President “shoot heroin” into his son when he signed him up with a Methodist soccer team, and his son and some of the other Methodist boys ended up sharing what they believe in?

Did my Stake President pass out heroin to the Stake when he invited 3 Muslims to a youth fireside, and they talked about what they believe in and prayed in front of us kneeling on their mats towards the Kaaba?

There’s a difference in enrolling your kid in Catechism, and simply having open dialogue with them about what other people believe.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by clbent04

[Colirio]

One of the things I have learned in my years as a parent is that every person is an individual. 

 

The only truth I can add to the discussion is that parents need to seek guidance from God in how best to raise, teach, love, guide, and help each individual child in their care. 

 

[Grunt]

2 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Was Ammon “shooting heroin” when he went to live among the Lamanities and learned their culture before he ever attempted preaching?

Did my Mission President “shoot heroin” into his son when he signed him up with a Methodist soccer team, and his son and some of the other Methodist boys ended up sharing what they believe in?

Did my Stake President pass out heroin to the Stake when he invited 3 Muslims to a youth fireside, and they talked about what they believe in and prayed in front of us kneeling on their mats towards the Kaaba?

There’s a difference in enrolling your kid in Catechism, and simply having an open dialogue with them about what other people believe.  

 

 

An adult learning culture isn't a parent teaching other religion.   A child playing soccer with other faiths isn't a parent teach the doctrine of other faiths.  Interfaith councils or events aren't teaching children another doctrine so they can make up their own mind later.

Your words were very specific.  Don't move the goalposts. 

[clbent04]

2 minutes ago, Grunt said:

An adult learning culture isn't a parent teaching other religion.   A child playing soccer with other faiths isn't a parent teach the doctrine of other faiths.  Interfaith councils or events aren't teaching children another doctrine so they can make up their own mind later.

Your words were very specific.  Don't move the goalposts. 

So it's shooting heroin if an LDS parent talks to their kids about other faiths, but depending on if open dialogue about religion takes place in another setting it might be okay? Not sure if I'm following you