Christ figure in movies

[mikbone]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_figure

 

I just watched Avengers: Infinity Wars for the 3rd or 4th time...  Now available on Netflix btw, 😜 

Anyway, I noticed that there were at least 3 Christ figure imagery scenes:

1) Star-Lord (Peter Quill) and Gamora - He attempts to sacrifice Gamora in order to prevent Thanos from obtaining the Soul Stone. 

2) Vision and Scarlet Witch - She destroys the Mind Stone (and kills Vision) in order to frustrate Thanos.

3) Thanos sacrifices Gamora in order to obtain the Soul Stone.

Gamora - “what did it cost?”

Hollywood obviously has used the imagery of Christ's Atonement to make money.  Likely because when people watch these scenes, they feel the influence of the Holy Ghost testifying of the truth and have a sincere feeling of loss, sadness, honor, or reverence.

Alma 30:44

Moses 6:63

 

How do you feel about the use of this technique in art and media?  

Edited December 30, 2018 by mikbone

[Fether]

23 hours ago, mikbone said:

How do you feel about the use of this technique in art and media?  

I did feel a little joy and burning in the bosom when I watched Thanos shove Gamora off the cliff.

[NightSG]

37 minutes ago, Fether said:

I did feel a little joy and burning in the bosom when I watched Thanos shove Gamora off the cliff.

Yes, but you also giggled uncontrollably when they shot Ol' Yeller.

Sicko.

[Fether]

4 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Yes, but you also giggled uncontrollably when they shot Ol' Yeller.

Sicko.

Still the greatest comedy of the era, close second was “where the red fern grows”

[NightSG]

4 hours ago, Fether said:

Still the greatest comedy of the era, close second was “where the red fern grows”

I hereby sentence you to watch all Bibleman episodes.  

 

[unixknight]

I looked at the list on the Wiki page and I'm not sure a lot of those examples qualify.  (Not a literary of filmmaking expert, just do critical analysis as a hobby.)  A Christ figure, in the literary sense isn't just a character who has a couple of traits in common with Jesus.  It needs to be a bit more in-depth.  Here are my two favorite examples:

Superman in general, particularly in Man of Steel.

• Sent by his father to live among humans on Earth.
• Raised by a human mother and father whose initials are M. and J., respectively.
• Disappears for a while, returning at the age of 30, and exhibits supernatural powers.
• Dies in a heroic sacrifice and is later resurrected.
• Is of a noble temperament, is completely good and compassionate, and is on a mission to ennoble mankind.

The imagery in Man of Steel is particularly obvious, as when Clark Kent is in the church looking for wisdom on whether to turn himself over to Zod, there's a stained glass window over his shoulder depicting Jesus praying in the Garden of Gethsemane.  He also later poses as if on a cross when he first escapes Zod's ship.  Superman doesn't generally have a story arc that follows Jesus' story, but he is similar in that he is a being of effectively  godlike power who lives among humans to guide them and protect them.  

"They are a noble people, they want to be.  They only lack a light to show them the way."

-Jor-El, Superman (1979)

 

My other favorite example is in the first Thor film in the MCU.

• Thor is the son of Odin, the ruler of Asgard.
• Has a brother who was cast out and is known as a villain, foil and trickster.
• Is sent to Earth where he must live as a human.
• Must sacrifice himself to save innocents.
• Is "resurrected" and upon returning appears in his full glory as Thor
• Returns to Asgard after a short time. 
• Promises to come again.

Thor's story arc is one of redemption, but still hits many of the same points as the story of Jesus on Earth and clearly is making use of those tropes.  It also doesn't hurt that Thor bore a passing resemblance to depictions of Jesus prior to his haircut at the hands of Stan Lee in Thor: Ragnarok.

[wenglund]

I agree with Jordan B. Peterson, that we are hardwired by evolution (and I would suggest our pre-mortal nature and choices) to tell and respond to archetypal stories--Christ's archetype rightly being chief among them. 

Accordingly, the Hollywood culture can't help itself, and is inadvertently conveying the  Gospel Plan,--and this  ironically as many of within that culture serve their real Master through perverting that which is good and promoting that which is not.  In other words, Hollywood is unintentionally working against itself. [Thumbs up]

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited December 31, 2018 by wenglund

[LePeel]

7 hours ago, wenglund said:

I agree with Jordan B. Peterson, that we are hardwired by evolution (and I would suggest our pre-mortal nature and choices) to tell and respond to archetypal stories--Christ's archetype rightly being chief among them. 

Accordingly, the Hollywood culture can't help itself, and is inadvertently conveying the  Gospel Plan,--and this  ironically as many of within that culture serve their real Master through perverting that which is good and promoting that which is not.  In other words, Hollywood is unintentionally working against itself. [Thumbs up]

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Jordan Peterson doesn’t believe in the kind of premortal reality that we do and therefore he blames everything in the human condition on evolution. I wouldn’t bother attributing man’s desire to worship on evolution at all, but rather a holdover from a different age in which we all lived before the world was.

[wenglund]

19 minutes ago, LePeel said:

Jordan Peterson doesn’t believe in the kind of premortal reality that we do and therefore he blames everything in the human condition on evolution. I wouldn’t bother attributing man’s desire to worship on evolution at all, but rather a holdover from a different age in which we all lived before the world was.

I have listened to many hours of Peterson videos, and I have no idea what he may or may not believe about the pre-existence.

Nevertheless, the value I see in rightly linking archetypes (such as Christ) to evolution is that it builds rationally on a common established belief. Many people believe in evolution  and are open to a scientific approach, whereas relatively few people believe in the pre-existence and may be reticent about taking a spiritual approach,, and thus they may be more inclined to listen to and possibly accept an evolutionary explanation than a pre-existence explanation..

This is particularly the case among those people in Hollywood who have been motivated inadvertently to convey the archetype narrative  because of evolution rather than a belief in the pre-existence, which was my point.

That having been said, I do take your point, particularly given that this the participants on this board re comprised of mostly of those who do believe in the pre-existence (which is why I I added it in as an explanation).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Traveler]

It is my understanding that Satan intends to counterfeit every good thing but that which he has the greatest intent to counterfeit is Christ.  We have been warned of many "false Christ" - especially in the latter days.  It is possible that many are falling for false types and shadows of Christ - especially from the likes of Hollywood.

 

The Traveler 

[unixknight]

10 hours ago, Traveler said:

It is my understanding that Satan intends to counterfeit every good thing but that which he has the greatest intent to counterfeit is Christ.  We have been warned of many "false Christ" - especially in the latter days.  It is possible that many are falling for false types and shadows of Christ - especially from the likes of Hollywood.

 

The Traveler 

I think that depends.  A good Christ figure in a work of fiction can be a useful metaphor when explaining Jesus to someone who doesn't know.  It's like C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia.  The way Aslan sacrifices himself, even though he is innocent, to save Edmund from the consequences of his own sin is meant to be a metaphor for the sacrifice of the Savior for all of us... and was meant to help kids understand.

[mikbone]

I knew @Traveler would hate this.

I on the other hand love Christ figures in Movies.  

When I saw Braveheart in the theatre I broke down when Robert the Bruce finally came to the conclusion (unfortunately way too late) that his shortcomings to follow honor led to William Wallaces torture and death.  It reminded me of my sins and my shortcomings that required Christ’s sacrifice.

 

Anyway, this is the first time that I have seen the vilan portrayed as a Christ figure.  

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

Anyway, this is the first time that I have seen the vilan portrayed as a Christ figure.  

Might I suggest the ancient demigod Baal.  Baal also sacrificed his life to save mankind.  And yes this is the same popular demigod and Christ type (figure) the Prophet Elijah challenged in the Book of Kings in the Old Testament. 

As a side note - I was doing research last year at the Louvre in Paris and verified a suspicion of mine that the golden calf in Israel when Moses obtained the ten commandments was a representation of Baal as a Christ figure. 

 

The Traveler

Edited January 2, 2019 by Traveler

[mikbone]

2 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Might I suggest the ancient demigod Baal.  Baal also sacrificed his life to save mankind.  And yes this is the same popular demigod and Christ type the Prophet Elijah challenged in the Book of Kings in the Old Testament. 

 

The Traveler

I missed that movie.

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

I missed that movie.

Some of the most important things in life have not been taught in movies - at least not yet.

 

The Traveler

[wenglund]

8 hours ago, Traveler said:

Some of the most important things in life have not been taught in movies - at least not yet.

Not counting the temple movies,of course.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[NeuroTypical]

Meh on the whole concept.

1. Humans are wired to react to certain notions in certain ways. Like, reliably.  We like to root for an underdog that wins.  We like to rally against insurmountable odds.  We like to rage against injustice and celebrate sacrifice that results in a gain.  We can identify with a random person who wakes up in the morning and tries to find motivation.  And a million other notions.
2. Humans tell stories to convey these notions.  Every notion has been conveyed a million different ways.
3. We keep telling them over and over again, because we love telling and hearing stories that convey notions.
4. Plain old statistics dictate that for every N stories, some percentage will be stories talking about sacrifice, being sent by a father to accomplish things, overcoming temptation, coming back to life, and every other notion conveyed by the Christ story.
5. Stories can be true or fictional.  Literal or allegorical.  Notions get conveyed regardless of whether the story actually happened or not.
6. Therefore, just because we can find stuff in fiction that conveys elements of Christ's life, it doesn't really mean anything or make a single bit of difference.  No Holy Ghost necessary.  
7. People finding the divine in the common is a notion, and some stories about it are true and some are made up.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 12/31/2018 at 9:36 AM, unixknight said:

Superman in general, particularly in Man of Steel.

• Sent by his father to live among humans on Earth.
• Raised by a human mother and father whose initials are M. and J., respectively.
• Disappears for a while, returning at the age of 30, and exhibits supernatural powers.
• Dies in a heroic sacrifice and is later resurrected.
• Is of a noble temperament, is completely good and compassionate, and is on a mission to ennoble mankind.

. . .

My other favorite example is in the first Thor film in the MCU.

• Thor is the son of Odin, the ruler of Asgard.
• Has a brother who was cast out and is known as a villain, foil and trickster.
• Is sent to Earth where he must live as a human.
• Must sacrifice himself to save innocents.
• Is "resurrected" and upon returning appears in his full glory as Thor
• Returns to Asgard after a short time. 
• Promises to come again.

I find that the symbolism falls apart in the second movies though.

Superman raised from the dead, is a psychotic weird lipped monster that needs to be stopped by the other heroes.

Thor is a over confidant idiot that only wants to come back for his girlfriend.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Emmanuel Goldstein

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 12/30/2018 at 10:53 PM, NightSG said:

I hereby sentence you to watch all Bibleman episodes.  

 

Wait, Bibleman is a Jedi? Sweet!

Edited January 3, 2019 by Emmanuel Goldstein

[unixknight]

1 hour ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

I find that the symbolism falls apart in the second movies though.

Superman raised from the dead, is a psychotic weird lipped monster that needs to be stopped by the other heroes.

Thor is a over confidant idiot that only wants to come back for his girlfriend.

Well sequels usually stink anyway so what can ya do?  

[Guest MormonGator]

I once had to explain to someone that Aslan from the Chronicles of Narnia is the "Christ figure" in the movie. The person was shocked, but she claimed to have read "all five" books in the series (there are seven, but anyway).

I remember thinking "How can you not see this? Isn't it obvious?" 

[NeuroTypical]

Heh.  Of course, when you set out to intentionally spread Christianity by writing a series of books where Christ is a Lion, then it would be silly to deny the validity of the comparison.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE0ORmUSqiM

 

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Heh.  Of course, when you set out to intentionally spread Christianity by writing a series of books where Christ is a Lion, then it would be silly to deny the validity of the comparison.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE0ORmUSqiM

 

I know CS Lewis wasn't keen on the comparison, but come on. It should be obvious, and it's more than just the giving his life for Edmund thing. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by MormonGator

[mordorbund]

Nobody told me and I didn't realize it until book 7. In fantasy there's typically strong magic from good dude vs strong (but less strong) magic from bad dude (or chick in this case). And Marvel has reinforced something I was already aware of with children's literature by that point: good guys don't really die (seriously Iron Man, if your computer says you won't make it back from space, you either have a broken computer or you're dead). And in a world of magic you've got a way to bring someone important back to life. The Horse and His Boy (iirc) is so barren of christology or Christianity in general that it hardly fits the series if that's what you're looking for. I caught the baptism metaphor in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (which still remains my favorite in the series), but The Silver Chair brought to my young mind the importance of loyalty, not faith.

The overt eschatology of The Last Battle finally brought the Christ-figure to my attention.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

5 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I once had to explain to someone that Aslan from the Chronicles of Narnia is the "Christ figure" in the movie. The person was shocked, but she claimed to have read "all five" books in the series (there are seven, but anyway).

I remember thinking "How can you not see this? Isn't it obvious?" 

I remember an interview with Liam Neeson (voice of Aslan in the films) where he said Aslan could represent Mohamed or any other religious leader. My forehead still stings from the slap I gave it.