The Folk Prophet

Separating from entertainment -- has the time fully come

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1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

I understand where you are coming from and of course you have every right to watch whatever you want to.

True. Thank you for your understanding.

I think some people though will read a "progressive agenda" into something that just isn't there. If you (generic, not you meaning @Anddenex) are 100% convinced that big, scary "progressives" are polluting entertainment, than confirmation bias will kick in and you'll find it everywhere.

True. Also true for people to recognize a wolf when they see it. The wolf doesn't have to be big or scary, it is simply what it is.

Thanks.

Final comment-you are comparing Saved by the Bell, where the "racy" scene was a two second heterosexual kiss....to 90210, which showed/insinuated intercourse? I just want you to think about that for a minute, nothing more. I chose "Saved by the Bell" because only someone who is really determined could possibly find that "immoral". Was it a bad show artistically? Yup, it was cheesy to the point of being cringe inducing. 

Was it immoral? On second thought, Kelly Kapowski didn't wear a full burka in every scene. So you might be on to something. 

Edited by MormonGator

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Thanks.

Final comment-you are comparing Saved by the Bell, where the "racy" scene was a two second heterosexual kiss....to 90210, which showed/insinuated intercourse? I just want you to think about that for a minute, nothing more. I chose "Saved by the Bell" because only someone who is really determined could possibly find that "immoral". Was it a bad show artistically? Yup, it was cheesy to the point of being cringe inducing. 

Was it immoral? On second thought, Kelly Kapowski didn't wear a full burka in every scene. So you might be on to something. 

I think you misunderstood the comparison. Saved by the Bell was introduced as an opportunity for a test. I watched Saved by the Bell, my parents weren't fond of it. I watched 90210. My parents weren't fond of it. I understand why my parents weren't fond of 90210. There isn't anything for me to think about for a minute.

I shared the following statement, "I believe there is a Youtube video about Saved by the Bell, and someone (not myself) pointing out how "bad" the show truly was for kids," which was in reference to your statement of how people can find something "bad" about anything.

So, I am not sure what I was "on to something." I think you read my response to quickly.

Edited by Anddenex

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2 hours ago, Scott said:

What about the prostitute in a Toy Story movie?   Isn't that worse, especially since it's a running joke that has a lot more screen time?

Since I had to google this to even know what you were talking about (and since it's a bit open to interpretation anyhow), I'm pretty sure the kids watching it don't have prostitution normalized by the "joke" (assuming that was really the intended joke).

So whereas I agree that if that was the intended joke (a "hook" with legs = a "hooker") then it's distasteful. But I'm not sure it's a like-to-like comparison of what is clearly intended to be normalization of something.

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10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Only a fool wouldn't have some level of fear at a wolf.

I am not sure I agree with this sentiment in totality. A person (individual) that is experienced with wolves will have a proper mentality of awareness, but that doesn't mean they need to fear a wolf.

I see the statement given as if someone were to say, "Only a fool wouldn't have some level of fear of [heights]." We don't need to fear, we just need to be aware. Usually fear is a result of a lack of knowledge of a potential circumstance.

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28 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm pretty sure the kids watching it don't have prostitution normalized by the "joke" (assuming that was really the intended joke).

If you watch it again, it's definitely an intended joke.  Small kids might not get it, but my teenagers picked up on it.

I agree that little kids won't pick up on the hooker thing, but I doubt they will will pick up on the two mom things either.  It seems most people never noticed it.

I haven't seen it.  It is noticeable or even intended?  

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36 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Since I had to google this to even know what you were talking about (and since it's a bit open to interpretation anyhow), I'm pretty sure the kids watching it don't have prostitution normalized by the "joke" (assuming that was really the intended joke).

So whereas I agree that if that was the intended joke (a "hook" with legs = a "hooker") then it's distasteful. But I'm not sure it's a like-to-like comparison of what is clearly intended to be normalization of something.

 

4 minutes ago, Scott said:

If you watch it again, it's definitely an intended joke.  Small kids might not get it, but my teenagers picked up on it.

I agree that little kids won't pick up on the hooker thing, but I doubt they will will pick up on the two mom things either.  It seems most people never noticed it.

I haven't seen it.  It is noticeable or even intended?  

This is so interesting. I never put the two together, but now I won't be able to watch it without having this run through my mind. 😊

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3 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I don't know.

That's fair. 

This is not about your parents @Anddenex, so don't take it personal. I wonder sometimes if people who have a problem with the culture/media we live in would be happier living in Saudi Arabia or in another country that's extremely restrictive and censors everything. Again, not an insult, just a suggestion/question/thought.  

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On 7/9/2019 at 11:44 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

My wife pointed out to me last night that she'd read there was a "two moms" scene in Toy Story 4 (I then looked it up and confirmed this was true). I mentioned this to a buddy of mine and we then discussed our frustration at Disney and their clear intent to indoctrinate children, and how things are quickly going downhill in this regard. It seems we're quickly getting to the point where there is no such thing as wholesome entertainment. I've had to stop letting my daughter watch several children's shows on PBS due to this sort of thing. It seems the only real semi-safety in entertainment might be by avoiding new entertainment entirely. It used to be that Disney/Pixar movies were a pretty safe bet. They no longer are.

My friend casually wondered if it might not be time to separate ourselves from entertainment moving forward. I'm tending to feel the same way. I do believe I may not be going to many more movies moving forward -- and I feel like I have to carefully pre-watch even kids shows to make sure they don't contain indoctrination. And either way, I do not want to be giving my hard-earned money to the kingdom of the devil (a.k.a Disney). As a Disney fan I find this very disheartening. But I think it might be the path I need to follow.

I think a good rule of thumb is to invite and receive the companionship of the Holy Ghost in whatever we do, without compartmentalizing the areas of life in which He is welcome. Easier said than done! :)

But mostly I'm too busy to watch more than a movie or two over a weekend, assuming I can find something that catches my interest. I'm not a fan of series because they require too much commitment, and no matter how well-produced, become caricatures of themselves after a couple of seasons, so I quickly lose interest.

I've subscribed to a filtering service to remove several types of offenses from streamed material. Someday I will probably just give that up as well and stick with only wholesome entertainment through media other than "film," especially as it takes on more "VR" qualities.There is still some forms of entertainment out there that fit the standard of "wholesome recreational activities."

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2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

That's fair. 

This is not about your parents @Anddenex, so don't take it personal. I wonder sometimes if people who have a problem with the culture/media we live in would be happier living in Saudi Arabia or in another country that's extremely restrictive and censors everything. Again, not an insult, just a suggestion/question/thought.  

I am not taking anything personal, so we are good. I am pretty sure my parents prefer America though, and not being happy with culture/media doesn't equate with being happier in a different country.

I highly doubt if Christ was here today that he would be happy with our culture and media.

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12 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I am not taking anything personal, so we are good.

Thank you, I appreciate that. 

12 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I am pretty sure my parents prefer America though, and not being happy with culture/media doesn't equate with being happier in a different country.

I actually agree with you. I also don't view America as a "love 100% of it or get out" kind of thing.I do view it as strange when some people complain about the culture, the media, the politics, the people-yet stay in America making money and living a life that they could only get here. It's the same thinking the left uses. They complain about how sexist, racist, etc America is yet they still live here and usually, have great lives. 

Edited by MormonGator

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On 7/9/2019 at 2:21 PM, prisonchaplain said:

The anti-Christian, pro-immorality messaging is just so prolific. I suspect the strongest answer--at least if we are to be "in the world but not of it" is to have our answers ready. Our children need to know why we "love the sinner and hate the sin." They need to know why we don't drink, smoke, gamble or chew, and why we choose to remain chaste unto marriage, and why we do not approve of men lying with men and women lying with women. They need to know why we insist that God created us male and female, and we need to honor that, regardless of any sense we have of gender dysphoria.

Sheltering only goes so far. If we push beyond, might our children not think we were hiding the truth from them? I'm done with boycotting, but I get the desire not to provide unnecessary exposure to immorality.

I can appreciate this approach. Teach your kids your values, but recognize and prepare for the fact that they will one day be exposed to things that contradict those values. It's unavoidable.

17 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

That would be fine if Toy Story were going to be a movie just for me. When its primary target audience is my daughter and the like then it's a different...um...toy.....story.....

Is there a lesbian sex scene in the movie? Are they making out passionately? Or is it more in line with the two moms appearance in "Finding Dory"? I haven't seen TS4, but I suspect the latter is probably pretty accurate. And in the case of Finding Dory, I had seen the movie several times (it was on Netflix and my son loves fish) before realizing there was a lesbian couple, and I only discovered that after seeing someone clutching their pearls about it online, and then I had to really look for it.

Same sex couples exist in our society.  That's a reality of the world we live in, and has been for far longer than Hollywood has been willing to put them on screen. You may not approve of their lifestyle, but your boycotts aren't going to erase them from existance. Your daughter is going to learn of their existence one day. My son already has, and not because of a Disney movie. One of his friends in Kindergarten had "two moms". He was confused about it. We explained that some kids have two moms or two dads intead of a mom and dad. He said "Oh, okay" and it never came up again. 

PC is right, you can't be "in the world but not of it" if you hide yourself and your family from the realities of the world you live in. No one's asking you to march in a pride parade. But frankly, I think you'll find it hard to "love thy neighbor" if you try to pretend that some of your neighbors don't exist.

 

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27 minutes ago, Godless said:

My son already has, and not because of a Disney movie. One of his friends in Kindergarten had "two moms". He was confused about it. We explained that some kids have two moms or two dads intead of a mom and dad. He said "Oh, okay" and it never came up again. 

Uhm... there's quite a big difference between being God-less and just saying "Oh okay" and for it never to come up again, and something else about it existing but not normalized as "Okay" in most Christian households.  A 5 year old exposed to these things before he is old enough to learn the lesson of it not being okay is exactly what propagandizing is all about.  Christian households are not supposed to have it "never come up again".  Eternal Marriage is a lesson that has to be learned and, therefore, it is MUCH MORE difficult to teach this lesson if it has to come AFTER the normalization of non-eternal marriages.

Edited by anatess2

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13 minutes ago, Godless said:

Or is it more in line with the two moms appearance in "Finding Dory"?

My wife and daughter goes to the zoo with her friend and her friend's kids all the time. No one thinks they're a lesbian couple. But if they both brought my daughter to pre-school and then both gave her loving and affectionate goodbye hugs (as I understand the TS4 scene goes) that might not be so clear.

It's just another step in the direction they're pushing in entertainment in general. You can justify it all you want, but I maintain my right to like/dislike what I want.

16 minutes ago, Godless said:

but your boycotts aren't going to erase them from existance.

Who said anything about a boycott -- or implied in any way that the reason I'm planning on not consuming such media has anything to do with an expectation that it will erase things from existence. I don't watch porn either and wouldn't let my kids. Do you presume that choice means I think I'm erasing it from existence?

18 minutes ago, Godless said:

That's a reality of the world we live in

So are F-bombs. Doesn't mean I want them in my children's entertainment or casually let them watch hard R-rated movies.

19 minutes ago, Godless said:

PC is right, you can't be "in the world but not of it"

As if I have to watch any garbage message Hollywood wants to shove down my throat or I'm not being "in the world".  I don't have to be "in it" at all if I don't care for it. Their are myriads of movies I don't watch because the content is too extreme and myriads more that I don't feel children under a certain age should watch. And no reasonable person would suggest that a 3 year old should be consuming the same materials as a 6, 12, 18, or 30 year old. Nor would they presume that being "in the world" means that you may as well let your kids watch any thing with any message, language, content, or the like. Nor would they presume that one cannot be "in the world" without witnessing everything therein in falsified for-entertainment form. That's such a ridiculous idea when it comes to the innocence of children and entertainment (not to mention for adults) that it's almost unfathomable that anyone would actually suggest it.

We may draw the line differently as to what is and is not appropriate for children, and we certainly draw the line differently as to what is and is not appropriate for adults, but I'm not going to throw the line out entirely just because wickedness exists "in the world".

29 minutes ago, Godless said:

if you hide yourself and your family from the realities of the world you live in.

What responsible parent doesn't try and protect their children at some level from the twisted, horrific, evils of the world?

Like I said, you may simply flatly disagree at what is and is not evil and horrific, but you're responding as if a parent shouldn't shelter their children from anything. I'm not buying that.

31 minutes ago, Godless said:

But frankly, I think you'll find it hard to "love thy neighbor" if you try to pretend that some of your neighbors don't exist.

Apparently you haven't bothered to read through the thread and the actual reply I gave to PC because this response is ignorant nonsense. I have no intention of pretending like evil does not exist, and you interpreting my concern to that has no basis but your own prejudices.

Seriously: Your telling me that if your children asked you if they could watch some porn movie would you just say, "sure!" Or would you say "no, that's not appropriate because of such-n-such reasons"? You're suggesting that if I do that latter that I'm pretending my porn-star neighbors don't exist and that I cannot teach my children to love them without explicitly witnessing of all their naked exploits. SO......FREAKING....RIDICULOUS.

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"The standard is clear. If something we think, see, hear, or do distances us from the Holy Ghost, then we should stop thinking, seeing, hearing, or doing that thing. If that which is intended to entertain, for example, alienates us from the Holy Spirit, then certainly that type of entertainment is not for us. Because the Spirit cannot abide that which is vulgar, crude, or immodest, then clearly such things are not for us."

Elder David A. Bednar, April 2006 General Conference

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1 hour ago, scottyg said:

"The standard is clear. If something we think, see, hear, or do distances us from the Holy Ghost, then we should stop thinking, seeing, hearing, or doing that thing. If that which is intended to entertain, for example, alienates us from the Holy Spirit, then certainly that type of entertainment is not for us. Because the Spirit cannot abide that which is vulgar, crude, or immodest, then clearly such things are not for us."

Elder David A. Bednar, April 2006 General Conference

To be fair, I doubt the scene in Toy Story 4 is a drive the Spirit away type thing. As much as the standard you're quoting here is "the standard" it's not the only standard by which wisdom should be exercised. Teaching/learning is a large part of why we're hear. And what we learn through any given medium can matter very much.

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On 7/9/2019 at 8:44 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

My friend casually wondered if it might not be time to separate ourselves from entertainment moving forward.

I suspect that point came before 1980, and quite possibly before I was born. We treat entertainment as if it's sacred. It is not. I cannot remember how many people responded to arguments against watching R-rated movies with, "But Saving Private Ryan/The Passion of the Christ/The Terminator/Night of the Living Dead/<insert favorite R-rated movie here> was rated R!"

I'm sure Moses, Adam, Nephi, and Russell M. Nelson greatly regret having missed such fine movies. Maybe they will lose their exaltation for not having seen them. But I doubt it.

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22 minutes ago, Vort said:

I suspect that point came before 1980, and quite possibly before I was born. We treat entertainment as if it's sacred. It is not. I cannot remember how many people responded to arguments against watching R-rated movies with, "But Saving Private Ryan/The Passion of the Christ/The Terminator/Night of the Living Dead/<insert favorite R-rated movie here> was rated R!"

I'm sure Moses, Adam, Nephi, and Russell M. Nelson greatly regret having missed such fine movies. Maybe they will lose their exaltation for not having seen them. But I doubt it.

A friend once advocated quite strongly that I see The Passion of the Christ, and I could only say that I can live perfectly well without Mel Gibson's vision.

We are talking about entertainment, money and careers here... And while our own general authorities quote from the classics and other artistic works, it is not to inform us of eternal principles but to illustrate them in terms that typically invite and bring us to a higher level of cogitation, not graphicness.

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

I suspect that point came before 1980, and quite possibly before I was born. We treat entertainment as if it's sacred. It is not. I cannot remember how many people responded to arguments against watching R-rated movies with, "But Saving Private Ryan/The Passion of the Christ/The Terminator/Night of the Living Dead/<insert favorite R-rated movie here> was rated R!"

I'm sure Moses, Adam, Nephi, and Russell M. Nelson greatly regret having missed such fine movies. Maybe they will lose their exaltation for not having seen them. But I doubt it.

Because they are good arguments. The amount of good that the Passion of the Christ has done is huge. 
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4607592/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/man-confesses-murder-after-viewing-passion-christ/#.XSZ_5C3MyRE/.

But you are right, maybe all those who came to Him via that movie should have just stayed home. After all, it was rated R. 

 And with Saving Private Ryan? It made the younger generations more aware of what their grandfathers went through. Another point in it's favor. You and I should count ourselves very lucky we never had to go through that. We owe it to those who did go to never forget. I'm 99% sure you never went to war. My sincere apologies if you did, and I mean that seriously.

I guess in the end it doesn't matter. You are absolutely free to watch or refuse to watch anything you like.  In fairness, you are also free to ignore history/the real world too. It's your life. 

Edited by MormonGator

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23 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I guess in the end it doesn't matter. You are absolutely free to watch or refuse to watch anything you like.  In fairness, you are also free to ignore history/the real world too. It's your life. 

LOL. MG, the movies aren't Real Life®. I daresay that, on average, the man who never wastes a minute of his life watching any Hollywood movies will know more about Real Life® than the movie aficionado. Much more.

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12 minutes ago, Vort said:

LOL. MG, the movies aren't Real Life®. I daresay that, on average, the man who never wastes a minute of his life watching any Hollywood movies will know more about Real Life® than the movie aficionado. Much more.

Oh you are so right. The veterans who fought in WWII and praised Saving Private Ryan for it's realism were way off. 

The irony in this is that I don't watch the movies much either. Maybe 3-5 a year, if that. I overwhelmingly prefer sporting events, concerts, etc. 

Edited by MormonGator

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6 hours ago, Godless said:

I can appreciate this approach. Teach your kids your values, but recognize and prepare for the fact that they will one day be exposed to things that contradict those values. It's unavoidable.

Is there a lesbian sex scene in the movie? ...

PC is right, you can't be "in the world but not of it" if you hide yourself and your family from the realities of the world you live in. No one's asking you to march in a pride parade. But frankly, I think you'll find it hard to "love thy neighbor" if you try to pretend that some of your neighbors don't exist.

 

I actually took my two younger daughters (17, 14) to see TS4. Honestly, I didn't catch the two-mommy scene. Then again, I was probably much more vigilant when the girls were younger. @Godless captured by parent-of-teens attitude. At this point, I can guide and encourage, but whether they embrace Christian faith and mores is increasingly theirs. I want it that way. At the same time, Christian parents of younger children are not wrong to shield them from most sexual material--especially the kind that goes against the household faith. My understanding is that roughly 2-4% of Americans identify as homosexual/lesbian. Some TV shows would make one believe that number was 10-times higher. Men lie with men, women with women, and too many adults cheat on their spouses. 5-year olds don't need to know much about any of that. Many 15-year olds know more than I do.

@Godless's point about loving our neighbors is important. We may not need more exposure, but given the social-political vitriol of the day, reminding ourselves, and our young, that we are indeed to love the sinner and hate the sin is crucial. Some LGBT reject our stance. They say that if we don't love them as they are then we don't love them. I won't debate whether I love someone. My hope is that they will see it, even as they tell me it's not there, because whatever they do, I must answer to God.

Edited by prisonchaplain

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