Sign in to follow this  
Anddenex

Satan's First Lie

Recommended Posts

While studying the scriptures my mind fixated on Satan's first lie to Adam and Eve, "Ye shall not surely die..." Satan's first lie is the same lie that has been used since the fall of Adam and Eve. In the Book of Mormon Jacob asked an important question, "Yea, today, if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts; for why will ye die?" (emphasis mine)

My mind is even more fixated on this first lie due to a family member who is now trapped by it. The unspoken belief now, "If I partake of the fruit forbidden I will not die." Another notion, "If I am a honest person, live a good life, mind mine own business, I will not die."

Satan hasn't changed, the overall temptation and excuse is, "Ye shall not surely die."

We can see this lie in thoughts given, "I am who I am and God doesn't make mistakes," by which a son/daughter of God then chooses a forbidden path (a forbidden fruit) that will surely enact the end of the Law -- death if unrepented and hard hearted.

We can see this thought, this lie being promulgated, in many forms all leading the sons/daughters of God toward forbidden roads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Anddenex said:

While studying the scriptures my mind fixated on Satan's first lie to Adam and Eve, "Ye shall not surely die..."

I recall a conversation from a novel:

An "angel" of sorts is talking to someone who has been wounded.  She did her best to administer first aid to the younger woman.

Woman: Am I going to die?

Angel: Yes, I'm afraid there's nothing that can be done about that.

Woman: (beginning to cry) I can't believe it.  It doesn't even feel that painful.  

Angel: Of course not.  The wound is only superficial.

Woman: But you just said that I'm going to die!

Angel: Well, of course you are, silly.  You're mortal.  Oh!  You meant today?  Well, the day isn't over yet.  I suppose it could still happen.

Edited by Carborendum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I almost do not know where to begin to address @Anddenex's concern in starting this thread.  There are many threads in the tapestry of Satan's lies.  For example: some will say that Satan will tell 9 truths to disguise a cleaver lie.   The problem with this statement is that Satan is incapable of truth.  All such so called truths attributed to Satan are lies.

But lets go back to the Eden epoch.  I believe that the Eden epoch addresses a number of principles that many seem to miss.  I am going to dive into this - only near the surface but with some principles that may seem below the surface because of the spirituality of certain principles.  First off the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is not necessarily forbidden.   It is defined as forbidden because of the warning G-d gives when he forbids Adam and Eve to partake.  A warning that death will occur.   The death spoken of was the fall of mankind.  One of the reasons that the fall of man was spoken of as death is the surrender of agency - not a loss of all agency but a surrender of agency to circumstance - specifically being exiled from the light, intelligence and the very spirit of G-d.

Note this statement from @Anddenex:

Quote

We can see this lie in thoughts given, "I am who I am and God doesn't make mistakes," by which a son/daughter of God then chooses a forbidden path (a forbidden fruit) that will surely enact the end of the Law -- death if unrepented and hard hearted.

The first lie here in the quote is a denial of the Fall.  It pretends that G-d forced our condition upon us and that in so doing; that what we do is because of G-d and is not nor can be our fault or mistake.  This is one of my primary objections to those that argue for homosexuality.  That being the argument that humans are not intelligent beings capable of choices specific to their destiny.  This is what I call a surrender of agency.  But even more - this is not a surrender of agency to G-d as it may appear with the argument that, "I am who I am because G-d created me as I am" - but rather it is a surrender of agency to Satan that has convinced them that they have no choice in the matter and therefor must do or follow as Satan and not G-d leads and directs.

I want to say a little here that comes to us through science and the theory of evolution as explained in part by Darwin.  I would point to a particular term or concept of evolution called "Survival of the Fittest".  This concept does not mean just to exist another day - it also applies directly to those individuals within a species that will pass on their genetic material - those that pass on their genetic material are those that are fit to survive.  By the very definition of evolution and the principle of survival of the fittest - the entire LGBTQ movement and purpose is eliminated from being fit and passing on their genetic material and participating in evolution.  Why would anyone choose to be "unfit"?  And then proclaim it is as valid as being "fit"?  Especially if they believe in evolution? 

I would correct @Anddenex on one small point - When one makes a choice to separate themselves from the light and truth of G-d - it is not a matter of where such will lead or what it to become of it.  The light, intelligence and truth of G-d cannot and will not reside in unclean temples and the choice to separate from G-d defiles our mortal temple and renders it unclean.  What is true is that unless we repent we will remain in the awful state of being defiled and separated from G-d - including his light and intelligence which is the END OF OUR AGENCY!!! by surrender - and a type of death that takes place immediately. 

 

The Traveler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I almost do not know where to begin to address @Anddenex's concern in starting this thread.  There are many threads in the tapestry of Satan's lies.  For example: some will say that Satan will tell 9 truths to disguise a cleaver lie.   The problem with this statement is that Satan is incapable of truth.  All such so called truths attributed to Satan are lies.

I was going to write a post stating I disagreed but decided rather to give you the chance to further make your case. Going back to the Garden of Eden, Satan told the lie of not dying followed by, what I believe, was the truth of knowing good from evil and thus become like God. So is it your belief that the second part was in fact not true or simply it's use to tempt Eve that somehow made an otherwise truth untrue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The over valuing of mortal life is a great stumbling block for many. Death is the ultimate test of faith, often times one’s true faith is revealed when a family member (particularly a young one) dies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I recall a conversation from a novel:

An "angel" of sorts is talking to someone who has been wounded.  She did her best to administer first aid to the younger woman.

Woman: Am I going to die?

Angel: Yes, I'm afraid there's nothing that can be done about that.

Woman: (beginning to cry) I can't believe it.  It doesn't even feel that painful.  

Angel: Of course not.  The wound is only superficial.

Woman: But you just said that I'm going to die!

Angel: Well, of course you are, silly.  You're mortal.  Oh!  You meant today?  Well, the day isn't over yet.  I suppose it could still happen.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, laronius said:

I was going to write a post stating I disagreed but decided rather to give you the chance to further make your case. Going back to the Garden of Eden, Satan told the lie of not dying followed by, what I believe, was the truth of knowing good from evil and thus become like God. So is it your belief that the second part was in fact not true or simply it's use to tempt Eve that somehow made an otherwise truth untrue?

One principle to understand about Satanic lies is that many such Satanic lies are counterfeit truths.  I would have all readers think on the concept of counterfeit - because a counterfeit is contrived and created to look like and seam like the original article but is not.  The original article and example of G-d is G-d the Father and his Son Jesus the Christ.  A counterfeit G-d may have some seemingly important characteristics but something is lacking or missing.  It is not enough to know good from evil to be a G-d - an agency eternal choice of good is required.  It would be unjust to Damn Satan and his followers forever to outer darkness for being evil - not knowing good from evil.  They know good from evil but unlike our G-d that is good - they have chosen evil.  Choosing to partake of the fruit did not in its self qualify Adam and Eve for the divine title of G-d --- Obviously it was a lie as are all things contributed by Satan.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Traveler said:

One principle to understand about Satanic lies is that many such Satanic lies are counterfeit truths.  I would have all readers think on the concept of counterfeit - because a counterfeit is contrived and created to look like and seam like the original article but is not.  The original article and example of G-d is G-d the Father and his Son Jesus the Christ.  A counterfeit G-d may have some seemingly important characteristics but something is lacking or missing.  It is not enough to know good from evil to be a G-d - an agency eternal choice of good is required.  It would be unjust to Damn Satan and his followers forever to outer darkness for being evil - not knowing good from evil.  They know good from evil but unlike our G-d that is good - they have chosen evil.  Choosing to partake of the fruit did not in its self qualify Adam and Eve for the divine title of G-d --- Obviously it was a lie as are all things contributed by Satan.

 

The Traveler

Satan didn't they say they would become gods only that they would in this one aspect become like God. Which is true. We learn in the temple that Satan has more to say than what we have in the standard works and some of them are true. But it's a common form of misdirection to state a truth in order to cause someone to believe something other than the truth. For example, if I stole a cookie yesterday and then today my mom asks if I stole a cookie and I respond "I've been at school all day" my statement be accurate but meant to deceive. So I guess it depends on how you define a lie, by what is said versus the intent. If you are arguing for the latter of the two then I agree with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Traveler said:

  I would have all readers think on the concept of counterfeit - because a counterfeit is contrived and created to look like and seam like the original article but is not. 

I prefer the word counterfeit also especially when compared with faith. There is true faith, and their is counterfeit faith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, @Anddenex... there was this time in Sam Harris' podcast where he interviewed Jordan Peterson.  I was kinda excited to listen to this podcast between Harris, the atheist, and Peterson, the believer.  I expected them to hash out their philosophical positions on the presence or absence of a God.  Well... an hour into the podcast and all they've done is debate over "What is truth?".  I was disappointed, bored, and thought I wasted my one hour (I checked out before their discussion was over)... until you made me think of that again with this thread.  Maybe I'll revisit that discussion and listen more closely to their views on what is true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

So, @Anddenex... there was this time in Sam Harris' podcast where he interviewed Jordan Peterson.  I was kinda excited to listen to this podcast between Harris, the atheist, and Peterson, the believer.  I expected them to hash out their philosophical positions on the presence or absence of a God.  Well... an hour into the podcast and all they've done is debate over "What is truth?".  I was disappointed, bored, and thought I wasted my one hour (I checked out before their discussion was over)... until you made me think of that again with this thread.  Maybe I'll revisit that discussion and listen more closely to their views on what is true.

Send me the link, I would be curious to hear the dialogue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Send me the link, I would be curious to hear the dialogue.

The time stamp on this says 56 minutes.  I thought that whole interview was over an hour because it was still going on when I bowed off... in any case, I listened to the first few minutes and it is the right interview, so hopefully it is not an edited version.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/what-is-true/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/11/2020 at 10:36 PM, Anddenex said:

Satan hasn't changed, the overall temptation and excuse is, "Ye shall not surely die."

I would view it a little differently - Satan hasn't changed, the overall temptation and excuse is,
"Has God really said ..."

Satan has always tried to get people to doubt what God has said to mankind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, romans8 said:

I would view it a little differently - Satan hasn't changed, the overall temptation and excuse is,
"Has God really said ..."

Satan has always tried to get people to doubt what God has said to mankind.

I think your opinion is rather simplistic - you are focusing on a means or a method (to a short term goal) rather than his intended end or purpose.  For example note that when tempting Jesus; Satan quoted and used prophetic scripture.

 

The Traveler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/13/2020 at 8:27 AM, anatess2 said:

So, @Anddenex... there was this time in Sam Harris' podcast where he interviewed Jordan Peterson.  I was kinda excited to listen to this podcast between Harris, the atheist, and Peterson, the believer.  I expected them to hash out their philosophical positions on the presence or absence of a God.  Well... an hour into the podcast and all they've done is debate over "What is truth?".  I was disappointed, bored, and thought I wasted my one hour (I checked out before their discussion was over)... until you made me think of that again with this thread.  Maybe I'll revisit that discussion and listen more closely to their views on what is true.

Several years ago I debated (in public) the president of the Utah's Atheists society.   After an number of exchanges - I asked him to define G-d.  It took a while but once I was able to understand his definition of a G-d - I conceded the debate stating that I did not believe in such; that such a being could or does exists.   He accused me of cheating.   But later we privately talked of my impression of G-d.  I responded that I believe there is a G-d that is an intelligent being capable of understanding, engineering and replicating anything that is possible to occur according to his concept of naturally.

 

The Traveler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this