Uriah the Hittite - Gay?

[mikbone]

Would this change our perception of David?

Bathsheba was obviously fertile…

Uriah stated

2 Samuel 11:11 “shall I then go into mine house, to eat and to drink, and to lie with my wife? as thou livest, and as thy soul liveth, I will not do this thing.”

Don’t know about y’all.  But if I was on leave from war and had a beautiful young wife hoping to see me, I’d have moved mountains.

And I know that my men on the front line would have approved of my decision.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

13 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Would this change our perception of David?

Bathsheba was obviously fertile…

Uriah stated

2 Samuel 11:11 “shall I then go into mine house, to eat and to drink, and to lie with my wife? as thou livest, and as thy soul liveth, I will not do this thing.”

Don’t know about y’all.  But if I was on leave from war and had a beautiful young wife hoping to see me, I’d have moved mountains.

And I know that my men on the front line would have approved of my decision.

 

I recently read “Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes”.  The authors suggest that a) Bathsheba’s being seen in flagrante delicto by David was probably no accident on her part; b) David’s affair with Bathsheba couldn’t help but have been known by the various palace servants and courtiers (he had openly asked his servants about her name and background); c) Uriah must have heard about what his wife and the king had done; d) David knew that Uriah knew; e) David asking Uriah to . . . err . . . go to his wife was a tacit way of asking Uriah to publicly forgive (or at least ignore) David’s offense, and f) Uriah’s response indicated that he was not. having. it.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Just_A_Guy

[mikbone]

27 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I recently read “Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes”.  The authors suggest that a) Bathsheba’s being seen in flagrante delicto by David was probably no accident on her part; b) David’s affair with Bathsheba couldn’t help but have been known by the various palace servants and courtiers (he had openly asked his servants about her name and background); c) Uriah must have heard about what his wife and the king had done; d) David knew that Uriah knew; e) David asking Uriah to . . . err . . . go to his wife was a tacit way of asking Uriah to publicly forgive (or at least ignore) David’s offense, and f) Uriah’s response indicated that he was not. having. it.

I don’t buy that Uriah was told by the King’s staff that David slept with Bathsheba.

2 Samuel 11:13 And when David had called him, he did eat and drink before him; and he made him drunk: and at even he went out to lie on his bed with the servants of his lord, but went not down to his house.

If Uriah was aware of the subterfuge plot and adultery he would have no doubt refused all of David’s ingratiations.

What David did was wrong.  He also killed Uriah’s men when he had them abandoned on the field of battle.

Edited December 15, 2022 by mikbone

[mikbone]

Its possible that Uriah was sterile.

His standard to refuse to be with his wife yet still eat, drink, and be merry don’t make sense to me.

[Just_A_Guy]

35 minutes ago, mikbone said:

What David did was wrong.  He also killed Uriah’s men when he had them abandoned on the field of battle.

Maybe; but this sort of presupposes modern Western notions of what it means to be offended, and where the cultural boundary lines are in terms of showing ill will towards one's social betters.  

This thread reminds me that some years ago, someone (I don't remember who) published a ThirdHour (I think it was MormonHub at the time) article talking about Bathsheba as a sinner because of what happened with David; and a lot of folks here pushed back with the point that Bathsheba wasn't necessarily in a position to refuse the king's advances and that it wasn't fair to definitively paint her as a scheming adulteress.  It was quite the kerfuffle at the time; but I can't find any trace of it by searching the forum archives.  

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I recently read “Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes”.  The authors suggest that a) Bathsheba’s being seen in flagrante delicto by David was probably no accident on her part; b) David’s affair with Bathsheba couldn’t help but have been known by the various palace servants and courtiers (he had openly asked his servants about her name and background); c) Uriah must have heard about what his wife and the king had done; d) David knew that Uriah knew; e) David asking Uriah to . . . err . . . go to his wife was a tacit way of asking Uriah to publicly forgive (or at least ignore) David’s offense, and f) Uriah’s response indicated that he was not. having. it.

I love that Uriah's oath is "As thou livest, and as thy soul liveth..."

[laronius]

Some people have their own code of honor about what is proper. Uriah strikes me as such an individual. It didn't matter if the king, the people, or even his own men thought it proper to be with his wife, he didn't feel it right to enjoy the comforts of home while the rest were lying on an open battle field.

[mikbone]

9 hours ago, Vort said:

I love that Uriah's oath is "As thou livest, and as thy soul liveth..."

Looked up the quote in the app, with the find exact phrase “ “ function

”as thy soul liveth”

The sworn oath is curiously found ten times within the scriptures.  But only in the chapters of 2 Kings and Samuel.

[Traveler]

Interesting that no one is talking about Bathsheba.  She betrayed her husband and her marriage covenant with G-d.  I also believe that her bathing epoch in site of David was not by accident or in innocence.   What is often forgotten is that when we break covenants that we tend to enjoy the company of those that also break covenants.

Trust is more important to me in relationships than love.  If I cannot be trusted – who can I trust and why would I trust anyone that knows that I cannot be trusted?  This whole thing is a sad ending for David.  I do not understand why the Christ was born to this line – even if David and Bathsheba repented.  I would think that repentance would require a change.

Abigale was such a wonderful and faithful individual – and also the first wife of David – I would think that this line would be more fitting for the Christ.  Some things I do not understand and intend to ask when I get the chance.

 

The Traveler

[Ironhold]

1 minute ago, Traveler said:

Interesting that no one is talking about Bathsheba.  She betrayed her husband and her marriage covenant with G-d.  I also believe that her bathing epoch in site of David was not by accident or in innocence.   What is often forgotten is that when we break covenants that we tend to enjoy the company of those that also break covenants.

Trust is more important to me in relationships than love.  If I cannot be trusted – who can I trust and why would I trust anyone that knows that I cannot be trusted?  This whole thing is a sad ending for David.  I do not understand why the Christ was born to this line – even if David and Bathsheba repented.  I would think that repentance would require a change.

Abigale was such a wonderful and faithful individual – and also the first wife of David – I would think that this line would be more fitting for the Christ.  Some things I do not understand and intend to ask when I get the chance.

 

The Traveler

Also... why was David back at the capitol when his people were at war?

Back then, kings and queens typically led from fairly close to the front lines. 

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Also... why was David back at the capitol when his people were at war?

Back then, kings and queens typically led from fairly close to the front lines. 

I don't know about the queens, but my understanding is that kings were typically warriors. But it was hardly unheard-of for a king to instruct his generals on how to conduct the warfare while he stayed home to take care of domestic concerns. And as I recall, David was not a young man when the Bathsheba incident took place. This doesn't invalidate your point at all, but it might not be as harsh as portrayed when taken in context. Maybe. I'm no historian, even on the interwebs.

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

And as I recall, David was not a young man when the Bathsheba incident took place. 

No actual record exists.  But according to Jewish tradition, the adultery took place when David was in his late 50s to early 60s.  So, yes.  He was not a young man.

[Anddenex]

20 hours ago, mikbone said:

Would this change our perception of David?

No. What David did was wrong.

20 hours ago, mikbone said:

Uriah stated

2 Samuel 11:11 “shall I then go into mine house, to eat and to drink, and to lie with my wife? as thou livest, and as thy soul liveth, I will not do this thing.”

Don’t know about y’all.  But if I was on leave from war and had a beautiful young wife hoping to see me, I’d have moved mountains.

And I know that my men on the front line would have approved of my decision.

This question about Uriah honestly surprises me. Rather than focusing on Uriah's honor, this question turns Uriah's experience into something he was not. If Uriah was as the question suggests, which as a servant in the army this would have been known, then Uriah is subject to the following verse of scripture, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

David wouldn't have had to send him to the front line, he would have been able to use the Law of Moses to end Uriah's life by the law, and which would have kept David spotless from murder.

Uriah's honor here is amazing to me. Why should I take pleasure, when my man "and my lord Joab" aren't able to also receive the same privilege?  This part of the scripture "and my Lord Joab" -- if my Lord a master is not able to come home and lives in a tent, I should also not partake of any drink and pleasure when the one I serve is working and the servants of my Lord are working. This can easily be symbolic of us and Christ who was betrayed. While Christ works should we be lazy and eat and drink because we are tempted to "rest" or should we be doing what our Lord is doing? Uriah appears to have honor that isn't seen in many man -- especially our day, and because of this honor we somehow call to question his orientation?

Edited December 15, 2022 by Anddenex

[RAB]

On 12/15/2022 at 10:42 AM, Traveler said:

Interesting that no one is talking about Bathsheba.  She betrayed her husband and her marriage covenant with G-d.  I also believe that her bathing epoch in site of David was not by accident or in innocence.   What is often forgotten is that when we break covenants that we tend to enjoy the company of those that also break covenants.

Trust is more important to me in relationships than love.  If I cannot be trusted – who can I trust and why would I trust anyone that knows that I cannot be trusted?  This whole thing is a sad ending for David.  I do not understand why the Christ was born to this line – even if David and Bathsheba repented.  I would think that repentance would require a change.

Abigale was such a wonderful and faithful individual – and also the first wife of David – I would think that this line would be more fitting for the Christ.  Some things I do not understand and intend to ask when I get the chance.

 

The Traveler

I think this was the perfect line for Christ to be born under.

Let me explain why.  I read in Elder Bednar's recent conference talk why Christ chose to retain the marks in his hands and feet and the spear wound in his side.  In part, of course, it was fulfillment of prophesy in Isaiah. But perhaps the deeper meaning, as Elder Bednar pointed out, was that even those who lived pure, good, wholesome lives might go through terrible things.  

That was terribly soothing for me, as one who had felt particularly betrayed by someone I loved so dearly, even though I had faithfully served in a leadership capacity to the best of my ability.  Bad things can happen to people even when they didn't do anything to deserve it. 

I also happen to come from a family line where more than once my ancestors had to be adopted because their bloodline fathers were not very fatherlike.  If your family line is not perfect, do you worry about what that says about you?  Christ being born the David/Bethsheba line is the perfect way to answer this question.  What our ancestors did has no bearing on who we are or what we can become.  I find it incredibly comforting that Christ, who was perfect, did not come from a perfect circumstance.