Sound of Freedom


mirkwood
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Guest Godless
6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Are you seriously making an excuse for IJ-DoD poor performance?  Dude.  It's just a movie.  You don't need to defend it.

No, I'm just pointing out that saying it's being outperformed by Sound of Freedom isn't technically accurate. I don't give two craps about IJ, but seeing easily debunked stats makes my eye twitch.

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8 hours ago, Godless said:

No, I'm just pointing out that saying it's being outperformed by Sound of Freedom isn't technically accurate. I don't give two craps about IJ, but seeing easily debunked stats makes my eye twitch.

In terms of total dollar amounts, you're correct.  I was looking at it from a profitability perspective.

Indy had a budget around $300 Million.  Add to that the distribution, marketing, financing fees, etc.  They need to make around $700 Million to $800 Million just to break even.

Sound of freedom was so low budget, and the marketing was mostly free.  So, the profitability is much higher.

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8 hours ago, Godless said:

No, I'm just pointing out that saying it's being outperformed by Sound of Freedom isn't technically accurate. I don't give two craps about IJ, but seeing easily debunked stats makes my eye twitch.

 

7 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

In terms of total dollar amounts, you're correct.  I was looking at it from a profitability perspective.

Indy had a budget around $300 Million.  Add to that the distribution, marketing, financing fees, etc.  They need to make around $700 Million to $800 Million just to break even.

Sound of freedom was so low budget, and the marketing was mostly free.  So, the profitability is much higher.

Sound of Freedom was also showed on 1750 fewer screens.

Obviously in overall numbers Indiana Jones will sell more tickets. But come on.

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Tim Ballard gave a fireside in our stake a while back.  He told us of a couple of his stories.  I was impressed by how low-key his speech was.  I'm sure he could have really pulled the curtain on just how evil these people were.  He could have really pulled on our heart-strings.  But he didn't.

As he described the events of a couple adventures, it seemed like he was just telling the story of how he went to the store for some milk.

One thing that impressed me was when he adopted a girl that he rescued.  She was about the same age as his own biological daughter.  So, he thought they should talk on skype (or something like that).  If I recall, they were somewhere around 5 to 7 years old.  So, their conversation was not very complex.

"I love you Kate."

"I love you Gwen."

Repeated over and over again.  (Note: Not their actual names.)

After a couple of months at home, the biological daughter asked,"So, is <date> her actual birthdate?"

"No, we had no records to determine what her actual birthday was.  We used medical testing to approximate the year.  And then we chose the date of their freedom as the birthday."

"So, then for all we know, she could have the same birthday as I do?"

"I suppose.  What are you thinking?"

She then explained that they really feel (despite all biological evidence to the contrary - they were different races) that they are twins.  So, they should have the same birthday.

He put that birthdate on the paperwork.  And they tell everyone that they are twins.

Stop laughing.  They identify as twins.  And you have no right to question it!

Edited by Carborendum
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12 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

In terms of total dollar amounts, you're correct.  I was looking at it from a profitability perspective.

Indy had a budget around $300 Million.  Add to that the distribution, marketing, financing fees, etc.  They need to make around $700 Million to $800 Million just to break even.

Sound of freedom was so low budget, and the marketing was mostly free.  So, the profitability is much higher.

Rumor has it that someone from inside disney has leaked that the company has been lying about their movie budgets since captain marvel bombed in 2019...subtracting anywhere from 15-25% to make their flops look less bad, and to make their hits look better. For the flops, the company will also spend more money buying up tickets that never get used just so advertisers can claim that the film is good, thus encouraging others to go and see it too. disney reports sellout theaters, but people in those theaters have posted videos of mostly empty screens, debunking their claims. It could be balderdash, but from what I've heard the money spent on indy 5 was actually 400 million, making the 800 million break even mark accurate.

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14 minutes ago, scottyg said:

Rumor has it that someone from inside disney has leaked that the company has been lying about their movie budgets since captain marvel bombed in 2019...subtracting anywhere from 15-25% to make their flops look less bad, and to make their hits look better. For the flops, the company will also spend more money buying up tickets that never get used just so advertisers can claim that the film is good, thus encouraging others to go and see it too. disney reports sellout theaters, but people in those theaters have posted videos of mostly empty screens, debunking their claims. It could be balderdash, but from what I've heard the money spent on indy 5 was actually 400 million, making the 800 million break even mark accurate.

I'm not so sure about this.  I like conspiracy theories better than most.  Lying about the budget only seems "plausible".  Buying up the tickets?  That's hard to swallow.

And if it was actually $400, the break even mark would be more like $900.

Edited by Carborendum
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Here is the operation Tim told as best as I can remember it.

Women from South America (either Peru or Columbia, I believe) got job offers in the Dominican Republic.  When they arrived, they immediately had all ID (including their passports) taken from them.  They were flown to another country and forced to work in a house of prostitution.  I'm having trouble remembering what country.  But I believe it was in Africa.

Many failed attempts at escape made them realize that they could not escape on their own.  All the women were devout Catholics.  They determined that if they were ever going to get our of there, the only way would be to pray themselves out.  They made a pact that they would support each other and never lose hope.  And they must keep praying as often as they could.

Tim showed up as a customer.  And for some reason, he broke cover.  It was a cardinal rule that they never break cover.  But he did.

He warned her that if she told others, word might get to their captors.  She had to keep this quiet.

Cut to them returning to free the women.  It was really fast.  And they had to go to a series of safe-houses.  The country they were in, the police were complicit.  They often got freebies.  So, they were dodging police for a few days as they got to an extraction location.

They finally made it.  The women were free and returned to their families.

EDIT:

I saw a video where he shared the same story with the Air Force Academy.  Apparently, the country of origin was Venezuela.  The country where they were found was Haiti.

Here is the video.  He told the same stories about the women in Haiti and the little girl he adopted.  I apparently got some of the details wrong.

Edited by Carborendum
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2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Sound of Freedom was also showed on 1750 fewer screens.

Obviously in overall numbers Indiana Jones will sell more tickets. But come on.

There really seems to be an effort to shut this film down.

https://www.dailydot.com/news/trying-to-stop-the-movie-amc-customer-says-theater-discouraged-her-from-seeing-sound-of-freedom-by-saying-ac-was-out/

Multiple locations, multiple states.

Ballard mentioned that he wanted to stay away from "Hollywood" establishment.  Now we see why.

During the first day of filming, funding was pulled.  The entire cast and crew were already on location in a Columbian jungle.  Hollywood did not want this film made.

Why on earth would anyone not want this film made?  I can only think of one reason.

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5 hours ago, scottyg said:

Rumor has it that someone from inside disney has leaked that the company has been lying about their movie budgets since captain marvel bombed in 2019...subtracting anywhere from 15-25% to make their flops look less bad, and to make their hits look better. For the flops, the company will also spend more money buying up tickets that never get used just so advertisers can claim that the film is good, thus encouraging others to go and see it too. disney reports sellout theaters, but people in those theaters have posted videos of mostly empty screens, debunking their claims. It could be balderdash, but from what I've heard the money spent on indy 5 was actually 400 million, making the 800 million break even mark accurate.

When it was alleged that Disney was buying up bulk tickets to juice Captain Marvel, I noted that what everyone was describing seemed to be far more in keeping with the activities of ticket scalpers and saw nothing to tie it to anything Disney itself was doing. Rather, it was far more likely that the social media smear campaigns being unleashed against Battle Angel Alita were Disney's doing as they were very obviously manufactured and overseen by a third party. 

That being said, two weeks ago Kamran Pashak was contacted by his source "Sparrow", who claimed that Kathleen Kennedy was put on two weeks' paid vacation, that her corporate e-mail account was locked, and that five executives that Lucasfilm employees are calling the "Horsemen" have set up shop at the company. This is pretty consistent with some sort of internal investigation, with Overlord DVD saying that his sources suspect Kathleen Kennedy stands accused of syphoning money from approved projects (like Indy and Mandalorian) to finance The Acolyte given the project's bizarre financial trail. 

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I get it.  I finally get it.

QAnon:

Quote

QAnon is the umbrella term for a set of internet conspiracy theories that allege, falsely, that the world is run by a cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles.

This was the definition of QAnon per the NYT.

So, apparently all the SoF haters have decided anything that talks about pedophiles must be aligned with QAnon.

I still don't know what the heck QAnon is.  But this is what they're using as a basis the name-calling of this film.  This may merely sound like they're just misguided. And they probably are.  But the reality is much worse.

This means that if ANYthing talks about the realities of child trafficking, the media now have free reign to say it is aligned with QAnon.  And those who have blinders on will just ignore it.  That is a truly sad state of things. 

This also means that the critics who labeled it as such probably didn't even watch it.  They did the same thing to What is a Woman.

And people still refuse to believe that the woke ideology has anything to do with sexualizing children.  Sad.

Edited by Carborendum
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4 hours ago, Ironhold said:

When it was alleged that Disney was buying up bulk tickets to juice Captain Marvel, I noted that what everyone was describing seemed to be far more in keeping with the activities of ticket scalpers and saw nothing to tie it to anything Disney itself was doing. Rather, it was far more likely that the social media smear campaigns being unleashed against Battle Angel Alita were Disney's doing as they were very obviously manufactured and overseen by a third party. 

That being said, two weeks ago Kamran Pashak was contacted by his source "Sparrow", who claimed that Kathleen Kennedy was put on two weeks' paid vacation, that her corporate e-mail account was locked, and that five executives that Lucasfilm employees are calling the "Horsemen" have set up shop at the company. This is pretty consistent with some sort of internal investigation, with Overlord DVD saying that his sources suspect Kathleen Kennedy stands accused of syphoning money from approved projects (like Indy and Mandalorian) to finance The Acolyte given the project's bizarre financial trail. 

Ironhold, I'm afraid that to a layperson like me, this is a bit too cryptic to understand.

So, when Kennedy was on two weeks paid vacation, what significance does that have?

And I'm having trouble with the wording about five executives, Lucasfilm and the "horsemen." 

Could you expound a bit more?

And what's up with The Acolyte?

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From the Guardian article

Quote

These zestier strains of scaremongering are absent in the text itself, but they lurk in the shadows around a film outwardly non-insane enough to lure in the persuadable; the disappointingly un-juicy Sound of Freedom pretends to be a real movie, like a “pregnancy crisis center” masquerading as a bona fide health clinic.

So what exactly makes something a real movie?

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2 hours ago, SilentOne said:

So what exactly makes something a real movie?

Being woke, I guess.

You know what I find interesting?

Quote

These zestier strains of scaremongering are absent in the text itself, but they lurk in the shadows...

IOW, the movie doesn't actually say anything that I can quote that qualifies as "scaremongering" but I say it is anyway.

I'm finding myself in a weird position.  I don't often see "heavy" movies like this.  And I wasn't intending to.  If I want to support it, I'd just donate to the website.  Why bother going to see such a film on a problem that I already know exists?  For the most part a film like this is to "raise awareness."  And it is doing so by the hype around it (any publicity is good publicity).

But my wife said something interesting yesterday.  (This particular idea is very out-of-character for her) "I want to see the movie and help it gross more money just to stick it to Hollywood." She even suggested we buy the tickets and just don't bother seeing it.

We do our online stuff and we discuss politics with friends.  But we simply aren't activists.  This is the most activist type thing she's ever suggested.  I think, in part, she really has a bad taste in her mouth because of all the false accusations even when the critics haven't even seen the film.  Whatever criticisms they make, I'd like to hear them describe an example.  And if I see it, I can agree or disagree that his criticisms were accurate.

In one review, the critic made a big deal about the phrase "based on a true story."   They claim, that it means it really has nothing to do with reality.  And the only thing true is that the main character existed.  Everything is made up.  Nope.  Missed that by a mile.

The entire movie was true.  They changed some things because real life is kind of clunky.  A movie needs to be smooth. Some things had to be changed due to movie-making logistics.

For example: There were a lot of real-life conversations, occurrences, and thoughts at different times and places.  They simply couldn't set up and segue all those thoughts and conversations, nor introduce that many characters (much less pay that many actors) in the timeframe and budget of the movie.  So, they lumped some stuff together into fewer scenes and conversations.  They even included conversations that were only what someone "thought" at the time in real life.  But all those things they said were real.

Apart from minor things like that, it was all true.  But they're making a big deal out of the phrase "based on a true story."  SMH.

Edited by Carborendum
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17 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I still don't know what the heck QAnon is. 

QAnon came out of 4chan.   The general notion of 4chan is "we are a bunch of smart sarcastic bored kids, let's all have fun by pushing new things we just made up, as hard as we can!  We'll revel in our creativity, and we can also laugh at any stupid people in the real world who end up believing it"!

Creepypastas.  The Backrooms.  The SCP foundation.  Leetspeak.  The Rickroll. The My Little Pony adult male fandom.  Pepe the Frog and the notion of the alt-right.  The Anonymous political movement.   These all began in 4chan.   Buncha kids get together and act like something is a thing, and sometimes it catches on and actually becomes a thing.  Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes because there are enough gullible and mentally ill people out there who accept the thing is real and carry it forward.

QAnon would be the latter.  It spread like wildfire because of all the gullible conspiracy accepters and undiagnosed high-functioning schizophrenics and psychotics out there. They grabbed on to it and started tweeting about it.  Russian disinformation bots boosted it's signal.  Mainstream media ate it up and wrote articles about it because it made the right wing look loony.  Someone's uncle started believing it and posting about it on Facebook.  Now @Carborendum and everyone else is surrounded by people talking about it, wondering what it is.

Honestly, now you know absolutely everything there is to know about QAnon. 

 

The thing some folks need to understand, is if you get rid of all things qanon, there are still millions of children being stolen/sold and trafficked into the sex slavery trade.  By an awful lot of individuals and loosely connected organizations with a global reach.  They do it to make money.  No conspiracy or powerful shadowy string-pullers necessary.

 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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59 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

The thing some folks need to understand, is if you get rid of all things qanon, there are still millions of children being stolen/sold and trafficked into the sex slavery trade.  By an awful lot of individuals and loosely connected organizations with a global reach.  They do it to make money.  No conspiracy or powerful shadowy string-pullers necessary.

Thanks for clearing that up.  I don't understand how they can connect Caviezel or Ballard with QAnon.

Apparently, he movie was not only written, but also filmed prior to when QAnon even existed.  They're just plain lying.

It was interesting to hear Tim talk about the nature of these organizations.  Only a few are large operations.  The vast majority are small cells for a very important reason.

If they have too many people in a single cell, there is too great a chance that someone will object and rat them out.  To be clear, it wasn't just that some creepy dude would be disgruntled and tattle on them for revenge.  It was that they genuinely knew it was something that most people find abhorrent.  But they did it anyway.

Yeah, no grand global conspiracy is required.  Just good ol' human depravity at its worst.

Edited by Carborendum
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Summary:

An investment banker was brought into the world of money laundering.  During that time he led a very debauched lifestyle.  Eventually, he left that life and ended up on the bad end of a deal with Fidel Castro.

He was sent to an area south of Tijuana, and he came across child trafficking.  As much as he had been embedded with the worst kinds of criminals, he fell to tears to learn of the real underbelly of crime.  He fell to tears.

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2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

The thing some folks need to understand, is if you get rid of all things qanon, there are still millions of children being stolen/sold and trafficked into the sex slavery trade.  

@LDSGator, ever reasonable, urged me to do a little fact checking.   I did mispeak - it's millions of humans.  Minors would be a percentage of that.

Anyway, here's how folks reach the vague number of "millions":

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/glotip/2022/GLOTiP_2022_web.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1R-GcNyJUD5EOi3XQgHccSQw-2Ys35ApjKkQymFG3YSEeODpS1u15EEe0

That's the 2022 UN report on Trafficking in Persons.  

- Page 15 says global average of .37 per 100,000 are "identified victims".   If I did my math right, that would mean ~30k worldwide per year.

- Most of those numbers come from people escaping and showing up and self-reporting. The rest come from folks who are freed through some sort of governmental action. 

- It's reasonable to believe that for every one that is "officially counted", there are 100 that aren't.  Every rescued/escaped person with a story to tell, talks about the dozen or two other victims they know who have died/been killed/escaped to a new anonymous life/are still in the business.  So you could argue 50 for every one, or you could argue 1000 for every one.  Data simply doesn't exist. That brings you to the claim of "millions".

- This is for all humans, kids would be a % of those numbers.

 

A valid question would be "This is so horrible, why wouldn't people just sell drugs or guns or something/anything else?"   A point made in the movie totally explains things:   You can only sell drugs/guns/stuff once.  You can sell the same person being trafficked 5x a night or more, week after week, year after year. 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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