Sound of Freedom

[LDSGator]

12 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

@LDSGator, ever reasonable

Handsome, charming, and younger than @Just_A_Guy! 

[mirkwood]

19 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

 -It's reasonable to believe that for every one that is "officially counted", there are 100 that aren't.  Every rescued/escaped person with a story to tell, talks about the dozen or two other victims they know who have died/been killed/escaped to a new anonymous life/are still in the business.  So you could argue 50 for every one, or you could argue 1000 for every one.  Data simply doesn't exist. That brings you to the claim of "millions".

 

It is not reasonable, it is reality.  Sometimes it is also as simple as you can not make someone be a victim.

[mirkwood]

I got sidetracked from completing my post.

 

Some trafficking is "local" small groups.  Some is cartel related.  Some is related to the manner of the secret combinations we read about in the Book of Mormon.  

[Carborendum]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/glotip/2022/GLOTiP_2022_web.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1R-GcNyJUD5EOi3XQgHccSQw-2Ys35ApjKkQymFG3YSEeODpS1u15EEe0

Numbers on pp 13-15 of that pdf is very encouraging.  The numbers went down for the year 2020.  First time in 20 years.

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

- Page 15 says global average of .37 per 100,000 are "identified victims".   If I did my math right, that would mean ~30k worldwide per year.

0.37 slave labor + 0.37 sex slaves = ~ 60k/yr (self reported).

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

- Most of those numbers come from people escaping and showing up and self-reporting. The rest come from folks who are freed through some sort of governmental action. 

- It's reasonable to believe that for every one that is "officially counted", there are 100 that aren't...

These guys say 10 million adults and 4 million children. 

https://www.worldschildren.org/child-trafficking-statistics/

The reason for such discrepancy is not only the estimation of how many are not reported.  It also is difficult to determine where to draw the line.

EXAMPLE:

Is "forced marriage" considered "trafficking"?  Many nations traditionally still adhere to arranged marriages and that would include girls that would be considered a minor in most countries.  But is that "trafficking"?

So, yes, the numbers vary.  Estimates, definitions, method of gathering the statistics.  I tend to believe all the numbers we hear from large organizations are pretty accurate... based on the methodology they're using.

I wonder, really, do we want to know the real number?  What if it were overwhelmingly large?

Right now we're looking at the worldwide annual number of children alone could be as high as 1% of the US population.  That's roughly 3% of the US children population.  That's crazy.

And what is sadder is who pays for this stuff.  We have among the lowest number of people/places that cater to pedophiles.  But we have the highest worldwide pedophiles that travel to these distant countries to abuse these kids.

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

Some is related to the manner of the secret combinations we read about in the Book of Mormon.  

Could you say more about this part?

[Carborendum]

21 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Could you say more about this part?

Also, one part of human trafficking that doesn't get discussed much is that there is a sizeable portion that involves human organ harvesting.  That wasn't included in the UN report you posted.

Not a criticism.  Just an FYI.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Carborendum

[Ironhold]

22 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Ironhold, I'm afraid that to a layperson like me, this is a bit too cryptic to understand.

So, when Kennedy was on two weeks paid vacation, what significance does that have?

And I'm having trouble with the wording about five executives, Lucasfilm and the "horsemen." 

Could you expound a bit more?

And what's up with The Acolyte?

You have a bank or credit union that you do business with, right? 

Most such facilities make it *mandatory* that every employee takes a week off at least twice a year. 

While the employee is gone, auditors spend that week looking over those transactions the employee was a part of, as many as they can review while that person is gone. The goal is to determine if the person had their hand in the till or was otherwise irresponsible with the bank's assets. Because the employee is not present, they are not in a position to interfere with the audit. The employee just spends their week doing whatever, knowing that when they return they'll be given a debriefing. 

So how does it affect Disney?

Some time back Kathleen Kennedy announced that there would be an upcoming Star Wars TV series known as "The Acolyte" and that Leslie Hedland (sp?) would be the showrunner. Allegedly, Kennedy had taken it upon herself to order the project into existence, as the higher-ups at Disney, including the current Bob, were taken by surprise. Not only were the higher-ups demanding to know by what authority she had initiated the project, they were also demanding to know how she was financing it since part of that approval process would have been her getting the budget. 

So for her to be forced out of her office for two weeks, with no access to her corporate e-mail, strongly suggests that she's being locked out of Disney while her records - including her corporate e-mails - are audited. This way, as with the scenario above, she is in no position to directly interfere. 

The most recent rumor is that Kennedy may have been syphoning money off of actually approved projects to try and finance The Acolyte, which if true would be serious trouble for Disney as a company as it's the kind of "cooking the books" that gets the IRS and SEC breathing down a company's neck. Disney is already being investigated due to a whistleblower allegation that the theme parks have been shifting numbers around to make their books look better, so if it's determined that Kennedy was indeed cooking everything so she could get her way it's grounds for Disney to fire her on the spot. 

[mirkwood]

3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Could you say more about this part?

Jeffrey Epstein.  What more need be said to those who know how the SC's operate?

 

We as Latter Day Saints know a thing or two about the Gadiantons, all we need do is look and you can see them.

[Just_A_Guy]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

The reason for such discrepancy is not only the estimation of how many are not reported.  It also is difficult to determine where to draw the line.

EXAMPLE:

Is "forced marriage" considered "trafficking"?  Many nations traditionally still adhere to arranged marriages and that would include girls that would be considered a minor in most countries.  But is that "trafficking"?

So, yes, the numbers vary.  Estimates, definitions, method of gathering the statistics.  I tend to believe all the numbers we hear from large organizations are pretty accurate... based on the methodology they're using.

I wonder, really, do we want to know the real number?  What if it were overwhelmingly large?

Right now we're looking at the worldwide annual number of children alone could be as high as 1% of the US population.  That's roughly 3% of the US children population.  That's crazy.

And what is sadder is who pays for this stuff.  We have among the lowest number of people/places that cater to pedophiles.  But we have the highest worldwide pedophiles that travel to these distant countries to abuse these kids.

I've tried not to weigh in too much on this, because I have mixed feelings about Ballard specifically and about the way awareness of human trafficking is being raised more generally.  But I will at least say this . . . 

From what I understand, at least within the United States, the sorts of scenarios we envision with The Sound of Freedom and Ballard's work generally, are statistically a relatively small proportion of the total "human trafficking" that occurs here.  By and large, human trafficking victims aren't abducted by sinister men driving nondescript windowless vans; they aren't kept chained up in squalid motel rooms or storage sheds with half a dozen other victims; they aren't even necessarily homeless or runaways.  The far more common scenario is for children to be trafficked by their own parents--most frequently by a single mom trading access to her daughter to a dealer in exchange for drugs; or to a landlord in exchange for a month of free rent; or to a boyfriend and/or his friends in exchange for what passes (in the mother's tortured, addled mind) for affection or emotional support.  In a large proportion (probably a majority, as I understand it) of human trafficking cases, bringing the children home is darned near the worst thing you can do.  

I wish well for Ballard, his organization, and his movie.  It's desperately important that we have a cultural renaissance regarding the importance of childhood innocence.  There are theories being bandied about, and becoming increasingly mainstream, that tend to justify the exploitation of children and erode the institutions that have traditionally stood between children and the adults who wish to sexualize them.  Those theories need to be exposed for what they are, and Ballard is one of the leaders of the charge on that issue--which I think is why he generates a lot of the pushback that he gets (though certainly not all--he does strike me as a bit of a poser; and I have methodological issues with some of the historical theories he has published).  I do worry, though, that he sort of sucks all the air out of the room in any discussions regarding the allocation of anti-trafficking resources.  Even if Ballard were 100% successful and effective against the specific subsets of trafficking he targets--we would still have a major child trafficking problem in this country.  

Edited July 13, 2023 by Just_A_Guy

[pam]

On 7/9/2023 at 4:29 PM, mirkwood said:

@Godless at least you acknowledge that child sex trafficking is a problem.  Many don't or minimize it.  Trafficking is bigger than people realize.

Every time an amber alert goes out these days trafficking is my first thought anymore.

 

[Carborendum]

11 minutes ago, pam said:

Every time an amber alert goes out these days trafficking is my first thought anymore.

For the past several years, I've wondered how to shut those things off.  I never know anything about these people anyway.  They're in a far part of the state where I wouldn't know a tree from a cactus.

But this morning all of our phones woke us up this morning due to an amber alert.  I got up and looked at it.  I sat and wondered... even if it is no one that I'm familiar with, would there be anything I could do about it?  I knelt and prayed.

[pam]

22 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

For the past several years, I've wondered how to shut those things off.  I never know anything about these people anyway.  They're in a far part of the state where I wouldn't know a tree from a cactus.

But this morning all of our phones woke us up this morning due to an amber alert.  I got up and looked at it.  I sat and wondered... even if it is no one that I'm familiar with, would there be anything I could do about it?  I knelt and prayed.

I get the amber, silver and blue alerts.  

[SilentOne]

An outline of some of what is true and what is embellished/made up in the movie on the O.U.R. website. Interestingly (to me), it points out that this is not the most common form of human trafficking.

https://ourrescue.org/blog/sound-of-freedom-based-on-true-story

[LDSGator]

2 hours ago, pam said:

I get the amber, silver and blue alerts.  

We get them all the time down here. As annoying as they might be,  they are an incredible blessing to get the word out and tell others about missing elderly, children etcp

[Ironhold]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

For the past several years, I've wondered how to shut those things off.  I never know anything about these people anyway.  They're in a far part of the state where I wouldn't know a tree from a cactus.

But this morning all of our phones woke us up this morning due to an amber alert.  I got up and looked at it.  I sat and wondered... even if it is no one that I'm familiar with, would there be anything I could do about it?  I knelt and prayed.

Amber, Silver, and Blue alerts are sent out state-wide because we live in an era where people can travel considerable distances in short order if they're so motivated. 

[Carborendum]

49 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Amber, Silver, and Blue alerts are sent out state-wide because we live in an era where people can travel considerable distances in short order if they're so motivated. 

I'm aware.  But when something happens that far away, how on earth are we expected to keep an eye out (for example) for a "blue Corolla"?  And nowadays when so many people telecommute, I don't even get out on the road very often.  One of my cars goes less than 100 miles/month.

Don't get me wrong.  I really wish I could help.  But the fact is that this is one area where I'm basically useless.

[Just_A_Guy]

On 7/15/2023 at 12:29 PM, Carborendum said:

For the past several years, I've wondered how to shut those things off.  I never know anything about these people anyway.  They're in a far part of the state where I wouldn't know a tree from a cactus.

But this morning all of our phones woke us up this morning due to an amber alert.  I got up and looked at it.  I sat and wondered... even if it is no one that I'm familiar with, would there be anything I could do about it?  I knelt and prayed.

Many of them, in my experience, wind up being the result of children who were taken by a parent who wasn’t supposed to have them—either a parent with joint custody who failed to return a child to an ex-spouse at the appointed time, or a child in DCFS custody whose parent somehow managed to finagle the child into their care and then took off with the child.

For professional reasons, I’m glad the Amber Alert tools are available.  But as a citizen/former layperson . . . I dunno.  I grew up sort of envisioning Amber Alerts as being intended to retrieve children who were kidnapped for the express purpose of maiming, violating, and/or killing them and where such harm was imminent if the child were not recovered immediately.  I’m not sure how I feel about the system being used for less-immediate threats—especially when the core issue is basically a custody spitting match between divorced parents.  

Edited July 16, 2023 by Just_A_Guy

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Many of them, in my experience, wind up being the result of children who were taken by a parent who wasn’t supposed to have them—either a parent with joint custody who failed to return a child to an ex-spouse at the appointed time, or a child in DCFS custody whose parent somehow managed to finagle the child into their care and then took off with the child.

For professional reasons, I’m glad the Amber Alert tools are available.  But as a citizen/former layperson . . . I dunno.  I grew up sort of envisioning Amber Alerts as being intended to retrieve children who were kidnapped for the express purpose of maiming, violating, and/or killing them and where such harm was imminent if the child were not recovered immediately.  I’m not sure how I feel about the system being used for less-immediate threats—especially when the core issue is basically a custody spitting match between divorced parents.  

I've wondered about this since you made your previous post.  What legal remedies are there?  I really came up with none.  Maybe you know of some.

But what I came up with was that this is just a crappy situation that has no solution.  Anything we do that may solve the problem keeps creating others.  How on earth are we to have faith in a justice system that is "the best we can do" but in some ways is worse than the disease?

It is when I ponder these things that I realize the only real cure is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  It sounds cheesy and too naïve for some people.  But I see this so clearly.  And it is especially true with matters of family.  And if we cure the family, most of the other problems in the world will become manageable.

[Carborendum]

On 7/10/2023 at 11:21 PM, Godless said:

No, I'm just pointing out that saying it's being outperformed by Sound of Freedom isn't technically accurate. I don't give two craps about IJ, but seeing easily debunked stats makes my eye twitch.

Well, now it is accurate.

The dailies coming in for SoF have been consistently higher than DoD for the past week or so.

Yes, DoD is about a week further into the cycle.  And that counts for something.  But considering the number of screens, the budget, the access to international box office.

I wouldn't be surprised if SoF beats out DoD in total dollars for the domestic market before both have finished their cycles.

 

[Carborendum]

On 7/12/2023 at 7:59 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

The far more common scenario is for children to be trafficked by their own parents...bringing the children home is darned near the worst thing you can do.  

...he does strike me as a bit of a poser...

Well, I just had my bubble burst. 

I've just heard from one source that tends to do a lot of research (I still have not seen the research, nor have I found any other sources saying so, but I thought I should at least put it out there) that the girl who was the central McGuffin in the movie wasn't "rescued" from the traffickers directly.  She escaped on her own and they found her after she had escaped.

I have not seen the movie.  So I don't know how they portrayed it in the film.  And I also understand that rescuing her after the fact also has benefits because of their "recovery treatment".  And I understand that they had to do some Hollywood embellishments to make the movie a movie.  But the central point of the story was what was embellished?  I can hope that there was another story that had the ending shown in the film, and they just amalgamated a story.  That's understandable.

But somehow, this just burst my bubble.  Maybe this source got it wrong?  Maybe they are just painting it in the worst light?  Maybe Ballard really is a poser?  Dunno.

[NeuroTypical]

The movie is a fictionalized story, based on a true story.  The movie's value is not in how accurately it portrays any particular events, but instead in how it raises awareness about certain types of child sex trafficking.  

Operation Underground Railroad put up this page to help people sort through what's fact and what's hollywood: https://ourrescue.org/blog/sound-of-freedom-based-on-true-story

Especially this item:

Quote

This story depicts what human trafficking typically looks like. FALSE 

At the first of the film, it shows security camera footage of several different kidnappings. This is real footage, and while this type of human trafficking exists, it isn't the majority. When we hear the phrase “sex trafficking,” our minds often picture dusty, dark alleyways in foreign countries where orphaned children from the streets are kidnapped, exploited, and sold. And that is a horrific reality, but it is also important to understand that sex trafficking is not just a foreign issue, but an acute domestic concern within the United States that is ever increasing. 

According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, human trafficking has been reported in all 50 states (NCMEC, 2022). Predators are soccer coaches and trusted teachers, neighbors across the street, uncles and aunts.   

The film also depicts children in shipping containers. It is important to note that Hollywood took creative license in portraying the different ways that children can be trafficked. While cases exist where children are transported in various vehicles, most trafficking happens through a manipulative grooming process. “Sound of Freedom” illustrates this well in the child modeling scenes where children (and sometimes their parents) are led to believe that they can make money by modeling, receive food if they come to their house, or receive love if they become the trafficker’s boyfriend/girlfriend – and it ends in sexual exploitation or trafficking. It is vital for parents, young adults, teens, and children to know the signs of grooming so they can recognize when someone may have ill intent.   

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[Grunt]

Finally got around to watching this movie.  It's sad how many people (myself included) just go about their lives uninvolved in the suffering of those around them.  We just don't get fired up as long as our cell phone and internet works.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

I just saw that this is available on Amazon Prime.