Trump (Or any Subject) Derangement Syndrome

[Traveler]

I saw a clip on Fox news that is a preview of a Trump and Musk interview.  Musk is talking about a good friend (but no longer a friend) of his that started to talk about Trump, and it was like he was shot with a dart of methine laced with rabies.  Musk said that his friend suddenly turned.  Musk then holds his hands up like claws.

This was quite a surprise to me and at the same time I realized that I have observed this same behavior myself – both with family members and friends.  Some are not democrats but republican supporters of Romney.  In all cases the conversations were not expressly about Trump.  For example, about a year ago I asked a family member if they had determined who they were going to vote for.  They never answered the question but instead when into a very angry rant about Trump and why Trump could not ever be president again.  In a more recent case, someone mentioned how they could not believe all the corruption and graft was being discovered by DOGE.  And then a friend suddenly went into a most angry tangent rant about Trump targeting FBI agents to lose their jobs that opposed him on Jan 6th.

Musk said that it is impossible to have any reasonable discussion with such angry individuals.   I do not know if anyone has noticed this Trump derangement syndrome.  I am of the belief that contention is of the devel.  I have no desire what-so-ever to have any kind of a discussion with someone that is hot angry – even if I agree with what they are saying.  In fact, if someone is angry in discussing a subject, I am of the notion that I need to rethink my stand if I agree with them.  There are several conservative commentators that I just do not listen to because their composure is somewhat over the top with anger.

One last side note.  A long time ago in a galaxy far far away I competed in debate in high school.  I learned that if I could make my opponent angry I would always win the debate – a tactic my debate partner was expert at and won us a state championship.   This is also a lesion I have determined is necessary for communicating on the internet.  If something makes me angry, it is only because Satan has found a way into my heart. 

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

Trump derangement syndrome absolutely exists. 
 

But if you think republicans don’t suffer from derangement syndromes, go into a conservative chatroom and tell them you like Disney, the NFL or Taylor Swift. You’ll see very quickly that all sides have derangement syndromes. 

15 minutes ago, Traveler said:

ne last side note.  A long time ago in a galaxy far far away I competed in debate in high school.  I learned that if I could make my opponent angry I would always win the debate – a tactic my debate partner was expert at and won us a state championship.   This is also a lesion I have determined is necessary for communicating on the internet.  If something makes me angry, it is only because Satan has found a way into my hear

I generally agree, with a caveat. If we’re debating and you say, “ btw Tim, your wife is ugly and you are stupid.” You’ve lost and I have a right to get angry. Also, some people use anger to motivate themselves. I know I do when I’m working out, doing TKD, etc. So I’ve learned to channel it into a positive. 

[NeuroTypical]

TDS absolutely exists, and I have experienced such behavior from numerous personal acquaintances and endless people online.  It seems to be largely a function of where the individuals get their news.  All news is biased, but news with a political agenda can be some of the most extremely biased.  And since Trump began his run in 2015, the "mainstream news" and just about all of the left-of-center news ramped up the divisiveness, the character smearing, the fear-mongering.  After J6, the shrieking and demonizing grew exponentially worse.  It became "mainstream" to push the narrative that Trump is more than just a narcissistic evil rich person, but actually a fascist as bad as hitler.  

Sources:

MSNBC comparing the Trump rally at Madison Square Garden to a 1939 pro-nazi rally.
https://www.msnbc.com/jonathan-capehart/watch/trump-s-msg-rally-draws-comparisons-to-1939-pro-nazi-rally-222807621632

Tim Walz did it too: "Donald Trump's got this big rally going at Madison Square Garden," Walz said, speaking to voters in Nevada. "There's a direct parallel to a big rally that happened in the mid 1930s at Madison Square Garden. And don't think that he doesn't know for one second exactly what they're doing there."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-madison-square-garden-rally-dnc-projections/

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez accused Trump of being a fascist, trying to unite racism, bigotry, nationalism with industry and the keys of government, in order to stamp out democracy:
https://www.foxnews.com/video/6363844350112

The list went on and on.  Michele Obama.  Hillary Clinton.  Nancy Pelosi.  All of them accusing Trump of being a fascist, comparing him to Hitler.   Former President Obama last year asked "How did we get so divided?"  The obvious answer is at least in part, "voices on the left side of the political fence keep feeding it through fear mongering and borderline inciting".

 

It was so bad in one LDS group populated by mostly lefties, I opened a thread called "Please stop comparing Trump to Hitler".  In it I listed those sources and made this plea: 

Quote

Whether or not you believe such inflammatory rhetoric had a part in the two attempted assassinations against Trump (so far), isn't it a tad extreme don't you think?

I mean, for a decade, I've heard all sorts of cautions and urgings from my friends on the left about how words can be violence, and incite violence.  I'm lectured about right-wing racist dogwhistles where extremists urge each other to violence.  What the left is doing isn't a dogwhistle - everyone can hear it loud and clear.   History and just about everyone concluded long ago that unaliving hitler was the right decision, even when it took destroying all of Germany and tons of civilians to do it.  When you compare Trump to hitler, you are spreading the message that assassination is an acceptable response. 

I'm witnessing people thinking and talking about assassinating a US presidential candidate as a way of keeping him out of power.  Every day it seems like there are 100 more voices on the left expressing notions that the attempts on his life are ok, to be expected, how can you blame them, what else are we supposed to do, etc.

Legitimate question for you all: How many more attempted (or successful) assassination attempts need to be made, before you might consider that perhaps there's a problem with left messaging?

If your response is to defend the rhetoric, I'd urge you to think about President Oaks' Saturday General Conference talk, Following Christ.  He reminded us of Christ's words from scripture.  How He commanded us to rid ourselves of contention.  To "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." Oaks reminded us that we are called to be peacemakers. 
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2024/10/18oaks?lang=eng

I know my own behavior, on this forum and others, has often been contentious and divisive.  I began an effort to do better after I started hearing admonition after admonition from the GC pulpit, urging me personally to clean up my act.  I've only been partially successful, although I'm improving.

So here I am, trying to be a peacemaker.  Please mind your talk about Trump.  If it seems to you like everyone is on the same page about trump being a fascist who only speaks hate and racism, perhaps consider your media sources and their biases.   Please think about how a disciple of Christ should respond to an unpopular and worrisome US presidential candidate.  If you encounter those inciteful divisive voices, please consider speaking out against the inciting and divisiveness. 

Please and thank you.

It was fairly scary to see one LDS person continue the narrative.  Continuing the comparisons, extreme rhetoric about how the world must never allow another hitler, even defending the attempted assassination attempts by equating them with other attempts on world leaders.

 

[Traveler]

2 hours ago, LDSGator said:

....

I generally agree, with a caveat. If we’re debating and you say, “ btw Tim, your wife is ugly and you are stupid.” You’ve lost and I have a right to get angry. Also, some people use anger to motivate themselves. I know I do when I’m working out, doing TKD, etc. So I’ve learned to channel it into a positive. 

I have come to believe that it is a very natural man reaction to get upset and even angry when falsely accused or deliberately triggered, but anger seldom (if ever) helps the situation.  It can be beneficial to express disappointment (as Jesus often did even among his Apostles) but Jesus also warned not to get angry with others.  When among the Nephites, Jesus forbid them from becoming contentious. I believe it was Benjamin Franklin that said something along the following, “Only a fool will be offended by someone that did not mean to offend.  But it takes a bigger fool to be offended by someone that meant the offence.”

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I have come to believe that it is a very natural man reaction to get upset and even angry when falsely accused or deliberately triggered, but anger seldom (if ever) helps the situation.  It can be beneficial to express disappointment (as Jesus often did even among his Apostles) but Jesus also warned not to get angry with others.  When among the Nephites, Jesus forbid them from becoming contentious. I believe it was Benjamin Franklin that said something along the following, “Only a fool will be offended by someone that did not mean to offend.  But it takes a bigger fool to be offended by someone that meant the offence.”

 

The Traveler

I understand that. While I don’t spend my life in a state of hostility, sometimes I can’t motivate myself to work out or spar if I’m feeling friendly and good natured.
 

You’d be surprised how many guys who work out do the same thing. 

[Ironhold]

Shortly after Obama won in 2008, anyone who, for any reason, was critical of him got blasted by his legion of sycophants. 

At best, you would be accused of being racist or a bigot. 

But after a while, they would start to accuse you of having "Obama Derangement Syndrome" and declaring that Obama being President was somehow driving you insane, thus nothing you said could be taken at face value. 

Either way, as far as his sycophants were concerned, he was indeed Deity and anyone who said otherwise was the enemy. 

*To this day* you'll find people who will tell you to your face that his time in office was "scandal-free" even after you show them the astoundingly long list of scandals his administration actually produced. 

That's where the whole talk of "Derangement Syndrome" started. 

[NeuroTypical]

18 hours ago, LDSGator said:

I understand that. While I don’t spend my life in a state of hostility, sometimes I can’t motivate myself to work out or spar if I’m feeling friendly and good natured.

Reminds me of a comment my daughter's MMA instructor made.  He observed that my kiddo was totally relaxed and smiling and friendly during the sparring, and said "these are the beasts you've gotta watch out for".  

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Reminds me of a comment my daughter's MMA instructor made.  He observed that my kiddo was totally relaxed and smiling and friendly during the sparring, and said "these are the beasts you've gotta watch out for".  

Dude, your daughter does that?!? LOVE IT 

[JohnsonJones]

Irony.  On these forums I joke that I am considered a Liberal (which I think I am).  In regards to many of the veiws expressed here at times, I suppose I have differing views than others).  Here's where the irony comes in.  I am not considered a "Lefty",  not even a "Liberal" by anyone outside of these forums.  In fact, most would consider me somewhat conservative (some would label me very conservative for some opinions I hold).  I consider myself an independent (that probably leans conservative).  With that said...

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I worship the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior, and our Father in Heaven who is our God. 

This forum in the past few months seems to have transitioned from being a Forum for Latter-day Saints to one that worships Trump.  That means I have not been participating as often or as much.  I do NOT worship Trump, and forums where they worship him are not that attractive to me.  I'd say one "derangement" is being so fervent about an individual that you replace your own religion with faith in them and what they are doing.  Even worse, that you put your belief in what an individual is doing above those principles and teachings that the gospel has. 

It is no secret that I've said Trump is either The Anti-Christ or An Anti-Christ.  If one feels that is derangement, so be it, but at the end of the day, there is only One God I worship and his gospel is the one that I follow. 

I feel the overly abundant worship (and praise, almost like they feel Trump is not human and infallible) people heap on Trump here is actually a turn off for many who are followers of our Lord.  This forum should appeal to those who follow the gospel, not just those Americans (and a few others) who believe in Trump and despise all those who do not. 

Edited February 19 by JohnsonJones

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

is no secret that I've said Trump is either The Anti-Christ or An Anti-Christ.

If Trump is the anti-Christ, then all of us worrying about the power of the adversary should relax. He’s way too silly to be the anti Christ. 

Nothing will convince you otherwise if you are really determined to believe this, but take my word on this-the real anti christ will be far more powerful and intimidating than Donald Trump. 
 

No, I’m not a fan of his either. But I’m not delusional. 

Edited February 19 by LDSGator

[mirkwood]

2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Irony.  On these forums I joke that I am considered a Liberal (which I think I am).  In regards to many of the veiws expressed here at times, I suppose I have differing views than others).  Here's where the irony comes in.  I am not considered a "Lefty",  not even a "Liberal" by anyone outside of these forums.  In fact, most would consider me somewhat conservative (some would label me very conservative for some opinions I hold).  I consider myself an independent (that probably leans conservative).  With that said...

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I worship the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior, and our Father in Heaven who is our God. 

This forum in the past few months seems to have transitioned from being a Forum for Latter-day Saints to one that worships Trump.  That means I have not been participating as often or as much.  I do NOT worship Trump, and forums where they worship him are not that attractive to me.  I'd say one "derangement" is being so fervent about an individual that you replace your own religion with faith in them and what they are doing.  Even worse, that you put your belief in what an individual is doing above those principles and teachings that the gospel has. 

It is no secret that I've said Trump is either The Anti-Christ or An Anti-Christ.  If one feels that is derangement, so be it, but at the end of the day, there is only One God I worship and his gospel is the one that I follow. 

I feel the overly abundant worship (and praise, almost like they feel Trump is not human and infallible) people heap on Trump here is actually a turn off for many who are followers of our Lord.  This forum should appeal to those who follow the gospel, not just those Americans (and a few others) who believe in Trump and despise all those who do not. 

 

I'd like you to define "worship" in the context you have stated it and then link us some examples.

 

Frankly I haven't seen any Trump worship (here.)

[NeuroTypical]

I've noticed, and I've been semi-embarrassed, as I reflect on my participation on this forum and how about 80% of it has involved political discussions.   I admit to being excited about Trump and Doge, and this forum is one of the places I can express it.  Any accusation that I'm somehow worshipping the guy is just nonserious.  But yeah, I should be mormoning here more than I'm politicking.  

 

[The Folk Prophet]

4 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

But yeah, I should be mormoning here more than I'm politicking. 

Sadly, politicking is often less contentious.

[The Folk Prophet]

7 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

This forum should appeal to those who follow the gospel, not just those Americans (and a few others) who believe in Trump and despise all those who do not. 

He says as he despises all those who like Trump.

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

He says as he despises all those who like Trump.

JJ is too nice of a guy. I don’t think he despises anyone. If he did despise everyone who voted for Trump one wonders what he’s doing here. 

[Backroads]

11 hours ago, LDSGator said:

If Trump is the anti-Christ, then all of us worrying about the power of the adversary should relax. He’s way too silly to be the anti Christ. 

Nothing will convince you otherwise if you are really determined to believe this, but take my word on this-the real anti christ will be far more powerful and intimidating than Donald Trump. 
 

No, I’m not a fan of his either. But I’m not delusional. 

I've expressed before that perhaps Trump is an anti-Christ, but I don't really believe it. I think he's a red herring for something else.

Then again, I also think the anti-vax movement is a secret combination plotting something, probably with the same big wigs behind vaccines for all I know, so I don't know if I can sensibly predict anything.

But I agree we will have a much bigger problems than Trump.

[LDSGator]

28 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I've expressed before that perhaps Trump is an anti-Christ, but I don't really believe it. I think he's a red herring for something else.

Then again, I also think the anti-vax movement is a secret combination plotting something, probably with the same big wigs behind vaccines for all I know, so I don't know if I can sensibly predict anything.

But I agree we will have a much bigger problems than Trump.

Interesting points on the anti-vaxx crowd. 
 

It’s a cliche to say this or that politician is the anti-christ. We’ve all heard it 35,000 times before. 

[The Folk Prophet]

3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

JJ is too nice of a guy. I don’t think he despises anyone. If he did despise everyone who voted for Trump one wonders what he’s doing here. 

I think your missing the point of the jab. Nice or not, he's saying absolutely horrible things of those who like Trump here. Claiming they worship Trump instead of Christ? That a downright despicable accusation and an extremely underhanded attack. And yet, I agree with you. I don't think he despises anyone. Which is why I made the jab. Because it should be obvious to anyone not afflicted by derangement that those who like Trump here do not despise anyone either. 

[LDSGator]

7 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Because it should be obvious to anyone not afflicted by derangement that those who like Trump here do not despise anyone either. 

Agree. Let’s see where it goes. 

[Traveler]

It is my wish that we learn to listen to each other.  I started this thread because I do not think it is possible to have a conversation with many good people that think Trump is the Anti-Christ.  The fellow I referenced in my initial post is a friend, an ultra-conservative, stanch republican and a stalwart temple LDS.  What I do not understand is why this otherwise good person cannot have respectable dialog about Trump with anyone that supports anything Trump is doing.

I will use this friend as an example.  He was not just angry; he could not even express himself without a high level of contention.  His contention was not just in his tone of voice but also in accusation. His accusations were along the lines of Hitler and the Nazi following (I have studied Joseph Goebbels and the Nazi movement).  I do not think Trump fits that category.  I do believe that Trump is a narcissist.  With perhaps very rare exception – I think every career politician (and the vast majority of bureaucrats) are narcissists just to be able to survive the current climate of our government.  

Back to the FBI agents involved in the January 6 incident at our capital.  It is my understanding that they were working undercover.  They were not wearing garb with FBI written on them.  I do not think the FBI followed protocol concerning the pipe bomb.  I also do not believe they were following protocols to encourage taking down barriers and entering our congressional building.   I also do not believe that anything Trump said was even as near as bad as what several of our elected officials are saying on intercom speakers at rallies (in DC) in opposition to DOGE.  I do not understand the logic of such seemingly double standard.

I will admit that I do not know sufficient information to be sure of anything beyond my own suspicion – that I do not trust enough to accuse anyone of criminal behavior – let alone what I understand of the Anti-Christ.  What concerns me is that though I would love to sit down and have a completely open discussion with the likes of someone like  @JohnsonJones  – I am not sure it is possible to discuss details and question logic without generating contention with someone that I do not wish at all to offend.  I would only like to discover what I seem to have missed.  I am not interested in name calling or labels.  I do not believe talking about Trump as a convicted felon is any more sufficient than accusing Jesus because he also was a convicted felon.   I am interested not so much in any opinion as I am in the why of specific opinions – and if such why’s are distributed amicably without bias.

Why do I currently support Trump?  Because of DOGE.  I believe (and with what I consider good logic and reason) that 90% of our federal social programs are wasted on corruption and inefficiency.  In all my life I have not encountered any other politician willing to take on the corruption (both political and personal pushback) and waist in our government.  I question why our elected officials (especially federal) seem to leave office with vast amounts of wealth beyond their pay grade.  With the exception of Trump that has lost wealth.  Not that I believe in Trump more than those called on our Church – just that I believe wealth and especially the desire to keep wealth is so often an indication of corruption.  Many of our founding fathers accumulated a lot of wealth that was lost in their pursuits of freedom and liberties.

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, Traveler said:

is my wish that we learn to listen to each other

Isn’t that we are doing here?

[JohnsonJones]

On 2/19/2025 at 9:30 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

I think your missing the point of the jab. Nice or not, he's saying absolutely horrible things of those who like Trump here. Claiming they worship Trump instead of Christ? That a downright despicable accusation and an extremely underhanded attack. And yet, I agree with you. I don't think he despises anyone. Which is why I made the jab. Because it should be obvious to anyone not afflicted by derangement that those who like Trump here do not despise anyone either. 

 

1.  The Book of Mormon teaches us to elect righteous leaders.  When that isn't possible, we have been taught in the past to try to elect those who are the most righteous (or the more righteous).  The Book of Mormon is FULL of stories of what happens when one does not elect righteous leaders.

2.  It is very evident that Trump is an Anti-Christ.  They are those that either directly deny the Lord, or, if we go with how Joseph Smith sometimes portrayed in (such as in relation to Bennet), they are those whose actions lead others away from the Lord and/or who do the opposite things that the Lord does.

3.  If one worships Jesus, than they talk about Jesus's teachings.  They follow what he preaches and they make him the center of their lives.  We love Jesus Christ and we love him enough that we want others to know about Jesus.  He is our all, and we wish for others to also become his followers so they can also feel his spirit and his love.  If someone else is the center of your life to the point that you talk about him far more than you do about Jesus, on a forum dedicated to Jesus's gospel and his teachings, what does that say about us?

When so much of the discussion centers around someone who does the opposite of what the Lord teaches us to do in his normal life, who is consumed by pride, lust, and greed, than I find more written on it than other topics (even though there are other topics I read), whose forum am I supposed to think this is?

4.  I am expressing how I feel.  I do not feel comfortable when everything seems designed to tell those (who are not US citizens (I am a citizen, in the past I have quite a bit outside the US and have quite a number of non-US friends) or those who may not feel super positive or super supportive of how Trump acts) that they are the wicked and fallen, that they are the enemy, and they should be ashamed of themselves on this forum.  Many posts have been written praising Trump and telling anyone who is not lockstep in line with him (akin to what I would even say is worship) that they were the enemy, or they were the ones causing problems and are terrible people. 

This is Trump worship.  You may tell others to repent, but let it be about actual things with not following Jesus Christ.

5.  If I despised you or others on this forum, I would not return at all.  AS it is, I do not feel comfortable with so many posts trying to tell me to repent of not praising Trump (and I should mark, no one on this forum knows how much I do or do not support Trump or his policies.  There are posts out there which probably show I have positive ideas on a policy or two of his, and of course those that show I have negative opinions, so regardless of what one thinks, I do not think anyone here actually knows what my thoughts are on this because I don't go on and on about them.  The only thing I've been explicitly clear on is that Trump is a wicked man and his actions are Anti-Christ.   If a man in the Book of Mormon was Anti-Christ because he was doing all sorts of sin and leading others to do that sin as well....hmmm). 

People tend not to go to places where they feel uncomfortable.  I am pointing that out.  A majority of the members today are not Conservative members in the United States.  If I feel uncomfortable with how many of the discussions on this forum are as a multi-year member of the forum and a conservative, I imagine there are a lot of others who are even more uncomfortable.

This supposedly is a forum that discusses the gospel of an International Church called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  If it is, let it be that. 

Not the forum where President Trump is the focus.  How is praising Trump and telling those who do not agree with an action of his that they are the enemy going to help convert others to the Gospel?  How is that going to help others learn to Love God with all their heart, and to love their neighbors as themselves?  How is that helping someone to get interested in reading the Book of Mormon or to feel the Spirit.

6.  When I read some of the posts here, I feel a very strong spirit of hatred against others like me, and that brings within me the spirit of contention.  Neither of those are conducive to the Spirit of the Lord and it makes me feel terrible.  That is why I have not come to this forum as much, because I do not want to feel that type of terrible spirit within me.  I want to have the Spirit of the Lord.

I came to the forum many years ago because it was one of the few that tried to make being positive about the Church and the gospel a priority.  It tried to welcome faithful members as a focus of the forum, and those that would tear the gospel down as an anathema.  I loved that about the forum and I still find it in the gospel forum most of the time.  The other forums also used to have a similar feel (or off topic...was off topic and normally not political, or as political). 

As I said above, if this forum is still a Forum about the gospel of Jesus Christ, then let it be that.

Edited February 22 by JohnsonJones

[LDSGator]

44 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Many posts have been written praising Trump and telling anyone who is not lockstep in line with him

May I see some of those posts? Even the conservatives here don’t say that. 

[JohnsonJones]

1 minute ago, LDSGator said:

May I see some of those posts? Even the conservatives here don’t say that. 

It doesn't take much to see them on the forum.  In fact,  you can find accusatory statements in this very thread that are not made by me.

However, it would be impolite to point out specific theads or posts at this time.  In addition, if I were to do so, I imagine some people who made them would take slight.  Furthermore, there are those that probably would use that as evidence that I was targeting individuals, or being mean, or insulting someone (as has already been lobbied at me and of which I responded to in an attempt to say, this was not my purpose).  For that reason, I think it is better if I do not get more specific in this instance as that would only further the Spirit of Contention which has been rife here.  (And this post probably does not help with it either, but being more specific I can only imagine would make it even worse by several factors). 

[LDSGator]

15 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

It doesn't take much to see them on the forum.  In fact,  you can find accusatory statements in this very thread that are not made by me.

Okay, then what you just said is basically meaningless and can be dismissed. 

I’m not a Trumper-but this forum is full of  wonderful people who give conservatism a good name. It’s incredibly insulting of you to say what you said about them. You are way off base here.