Prayer over food

[zil2]

Giving thanks for food makes sense to me.  Giving thanks for the people who made it possible for you to have food makes sense to me.  Asking for those folks to be blessed makes sense to me.  Remembering those who are less fortunate and asking for help to be generous toward them and for God to bless them makes sense to me.

It does not make sense to me to ask for any particular food to be "nourishing and strengthening" - the nourishing and strengthening capacities of various foods seems to be a set thing, and your body's ability to take in nourishment or derive strength also seems to be a set thing.  Asking God to override or amplify these things seems foolish to me. ("God, I know this soda is full of high fructose corn syrup, but please bless it anyway so it'll be nourishing and strengthening to my mind and body and won't give me a sugar crash later, or contribute to me developing type 2 diabetes."  I mean, sure, you can try that, but I'm not sure it's going to work...)

Anyone have a good argument for why or how we should "bless" food?  Anyone have other thoughts on what should go into a prayer given at meal times / "over" food?

[Manners Matter]

First, no - things aren't set and can be adjusted. There are several factors that go into how nourishing and strengthening foods are for you (ie if your body isn't absorbing the nutrients, it doesn't matter how clean your diet is; eating while stressed is just as bad or worse than eating a cheeseburger from McDonald's). Furthermore, considering that food is altered and things put in it these days (ie mrna vaccine), ya I'd be upping my prayer game big time. 

"please cleanse it from all impurities and harmful elements to any degree"

"humbly ask that every element that is harmful to the body in any way be removed so this food and water is clean, pure and healthy"

[NeuroTypical]

Surely I'm not the only person with a snarky sarcastic streak who has always translated that part into "please preserve and protect us from mom's horrible cooking"...

I mean, I'm not proud about this part of me, but it remains steadfastly a part...

[zil2]

11 minutes ago, Manners Matter said:

First, no - things aren't set and can be adjusted. There are several factors that go into how nourishing and strengthening foods are for you (ie if your body isn't absorbing the nutrients, it doesn't matter how clean your diet is; eating while stressed is just as bad or worse than eating a cheeseburger from McDonald's). Furthermore, considering that food is altered and things put in it these days (ie mrna vaccine), ya I'd be upping my prayer game big time. 

"please cleanse it from all impurities and harmful elements to any degree"

"humbly ask that every element that is harmful to the body in any way be removed so this food and water is clean, pure and healthy"

This is where my certainty that God can do whatever he wills clashes with the frequent counsel from Church leaders regarding "the economy of heaven" - where they say things that boil down to, for example, don't refuse to go to the doctor and expect God to just heal your broken bone, or don't sit on the couch eating sugar 24x7 and expect God to prevent you from getting type 2 diabetes.  Obviously, our leaders don't say that exactly, but that's what it boils down to - God is not going to save you from the consequences of your own agency.

So, my question isn't whether God can remove the mRNA from your chicken, but will He; and I've got no example or teaching that helps me believe He will.

Edited March 4 by zil2

[Manners Matter]

Ah, ok. Well, I firmly believe that G-d needs some healthy people that can help the unwell. I also believe that wanting to be healthy is a righteous desire so why wouldn't He help me with that? 

To use your example though, "don't expect to eat tainted/mrna food and be well if you don't at least make a simple request in prayer to change the makeup of it".

[Manners Matter]

Maybe this scripture is a "teaching that helps [you] believe He will"?

Doctrine and Covenants 10:5  Pray always, that you may come off conqueror; yea, that you may conquer Satan, and that you may escape the hands of the servants of Satan that do uphold his work. 

Seems to me, Satan would want sick and unhealthy people for a myriad of reasons and there are people/organizations that do as well.

Edited March 4 by Manners Matter

[zil2]

34 minutes ago, Manners Matter said:

Ah, ok. Well, I firmly believe that G-d needs some healthy people that can help the unwell. I also believe that wanting to be healthy is a righteous desire so why wouldn't He help me with that? 

To use your example though, "don't expect to eat tainted/mrna food and be well if you don't at least make a simple request in prayer to change the makeup of it".

Again, the examples I've heard suggest that you need to do the research and then not buy the mRNA chicken rather than expect God to take the mRNA out of the chicken.

In short, all the GA talks and such that I've heard and read are basically saying to not expect God to do what it's possible for mortals to do themselves. Having heard this, I don't know how to pray with faith, nothing doubting, for God to do something that I (or someone) could accomplish some other way.

[Manners Matter]

I get what you're saying but you're basically setting yourself up for never eating out, never eating at a potluck, someone's home or accepting any food from the RS when you're in need because all of those options are out of your control with the quality of the food. I will also add this - you can use intention to clear the food yourself and then ask G-d to amplify your efforts. 

For any interested - look up the Water Experiment by Dr. Masaru Emoto

[mordorbund]

Sacramental food is blessed and sanctified for a specific purpose. Food at gatherings may similarly be blessed to fulfill its social purpose.

Quote

And he commanded the people to sit down on the ground: and he took the seven loaves, and gave thanks, and brake, and gave to his disciples to set before them; and they did set them before the people.

7 And they had a few small fishes: and he blessed, and commanded to set them also before them.

I can find different accounts of Jesus giving thanks for food, but this is the only account I know of where he blesses food.

 

[HaggisShuu]

[Carborendum]

10 hours ago, zil2 said:

Giving thanks for food makes sense to me.  Giving thanks for the people who made it possible for you to have food makes sense to me.  Asking for those folks to be blessed makes sense to me.  Remembering those who are less fortunate and asking for help to be generous toward them and for God to bless them makes sense to me.

It does not make sense to me to ask for any particular food to be "nourishing and strengthening" - the nourishing and strengthening capacities of various foods seems to be a set thing, and your body's ability to take in nourishment or derive strength also seems to be a set thing.  Asking God to override or amplify these things seems foolish to me. ("God, I know this soda is full of high fructose corn syrup, but please bless it anyway so it'll be nourishing and strengthening to my mind and body and won't give me a sugar crash later, or contribute to me developing type 2 diabetes."  I mean, sure, you can try that, but I'm not sure it's going to work...)

Anyone have a good argument for why or how we should "bless" food?  Anyone have other thoughts on what should go into a prayer given at meal times / "over" food?

It comes from many sources.  But Americans get it mainly from the Anglican Prayer Book.

Quote

Creator of the universe, you give us this gift of food to nourish us and give us life.

Bless this food that you have made, and human hands have prepared. May it satisfy our hunger, and in sharing it together may we come closer to one another. Amen.

Bless, O Lord, this food to our use and bless us to your service, and make us ever mindful of the needs of others; thorough Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

God is great, God is good, and we thank him for this food. By his hand we all are fed; give us Lord, our daily bread. Bless our home with peace and love, and grant in Christ a home above.

All Good gifts are around us are sent from heaven above, then thank the Lord, O thank the Lord for all his love.

For health and strength and daily food, we praise your name, O Lord.(This grace can be sung as a round)

Over time, we have come to make variations on a local level. But this and similar traditions are the source of it.  

I agree that there is no real scriptural basis for it.  It is merely tradition.  But I try to make sure my household always remember that the purpose of "grace" is to give thanks more than it is to "bless" the food.

Remember that blessing the food  is not a "blessing" as we normally think of it.  It is really a way of thanking.  Imagine when a person does something nice for you.  An old-fashioned response would be "may the Lord bless you for it."  Often, it would be shortened to: "bless you" = "thank you."

But today, we don't understand this linguistic quirk and simply repeat things based on tradition.

Look up the etymology of the word "bless" and you'll get a more full picture of how blessing could become part of giving thanks.

Edited March 4 by Carborendum

[HaggisShuu]

It always make me giggle when we have have an activity and we get a load of cakes, cookies and donuts as a treat, and whoever is offering the prayer says "we ask you remove any impurities from this food". 
 

This food is 100% impurity. 

Edited March 4 by HaggisShuu

[Carborendum]

41 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

And they had a few small fishes: and he blessed, and commanded to set them also before them.

How about A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief?

Quote

Just perishing for want of bread.
I gave him all; he blessed it, brake,
And ate, but gave me part again.
Mine was an angel’s portion then,

Again, I think we are just unfamiliar with words from previous centuries.  It's supposedly the same language. But ...

Edited March 4 by Carborendum

[HaggisShuu]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

How about A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief?

Again, I think we are just unfamiliar with words from previous centuries.  It's supposedly the same language. But ...

Personally I think the blessing of food, is more an expression of gratitude than it is a miraculous ordinance. Hence the reason people without the priesthood can do it. Blessing food won't make it tastier, healthier or stop you from dying if an assassin poisons it, but it's shows God you're grateful. And as Russell M Nelson says, gratitude has a healing power to it. 

[Manners Matter]

There are two different scenarios being lumped together here. Obviously, there's a difference between sweets and sodas and fresh food from the garden. One is food, the other is not and no one is expecting a prayer/blessing to change that.

[zil2]

3 hours ago, mordorbund said:

I can find different accounts of Jesus giving thanks for food, but this is the only account I know of where he blesses food.

It would be interested to know the nature of that blessing.  Was it a generic, "Please bless this food."  Or did He bless it that _____?

ETA: And now I see that @Carborendum has pointed out that saying he "blessed" it is equivalent to saying "he gave thanks for it".

Edited March 4 by zil2

[zil2]

3 hours ago, Manners Matter said:

I get what you're saying but you're basically setting yourself up for never eating out, never eating at a potluck, someone's home or accepting any food from the RS when you're in need because all of those options are out of your control with the quality of the food. I will also add this - you can use intention to clear the food yourself and then ask G-d to amplify your efforts.

Not setting myself up in the slightest.  I'm perfectly capable of eating food that isn't good for me, and giving thanks for it too.  What I'm not capable of is asking the Lord to miraculously reorganize its molecular structure to make it something it inherently isn't.  (Of course, I rarely eat out and never eat via the other scenarios you presented.)

3 hours ago, Manners Matter said:

For any interested - look up the Water Experiment by Dr. Masaru Emoto

I am familiar.  I'm not convinced this equates to miraculously altering the inherent nature of food - one involves things that are already inherent in water, just with different shapes; the other requires removing what is inherent or adding what is not inherent.

[zil2]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

But Americans get it mainly from the Anglican Prayer Book.

Thank you! Blessings I can get on board with:

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Bless this food that you have made, and human hands have prepared. May it satisfy our hunger, and in sharing it together may we come closer to one another. Amen.

Bless, O Lord, this food to our use and bless us to your service, and make us ever mindful of the needs of others; thorough Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

God is great, God is good, and we thank him for this food. By his hand we all are fed; give us Lord, our daily bread. Bless our home with peace and love, and grant in Christ a home above.

All Good gifts are around us are sent from heaven above, then thank the Lord, O thank the Lord for all his love.

For health and strength and daily food, we praise your name, O Lord.(This grace can be sung as a round)

Good stuff up there.

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

But I try to make sure my household always remember that the purpose of "grace" is to give thanks more than it is to "bless" the food.

Remember that blessing the food  is not a "blessing" as we normally think of it.  It is really a way of thanking.  Imagine when a person does something nice for you.  An old-fashioned response would be "may the Lord bless you for it."  Often, it would be shortened to: "bless you" = "thank you."

But today, we don't understand this linguistic quirk and simply repeat things based on tradition.

Look up the etymology of the word "bless" and you'll get a more full picture of how blessing could become part of giving thanks.

I agree with all this - it matches a conclusion I came to a decade or so ago.  The part that seems bizarre to me is someone standing at 7pm in a Church building next to a table full of desserts and/or soda and/or chips and saying: "Please bless this food that it will be nourishing and strengthening to our minds and bodies..."  I grew up hearing this (in my parents' and others' homes and at Church events) and to this day¹ still hear it - it's the LDS version of a rote prayer.

¹OK, it's been years since I was in a Church building at 7pm next to a table full of junk food, but I'm reasonably certain the prayers are still the same.

[estradling75]

When Nephi and family were traveling in the wilderness, they lived on raw meat.  That is not a very good diet.  Yet the Lord blessed them and per Nephi they had the strength and energy to do what was needed.  While I fully believe that story I do not assume that the Lord would bless me if I made the choice to only eat raw meat.  I have other options that the Lord has given me.  If I use my agency to only eat raw meat, I am pretty sure the Lord would respect that and let the consequences of my choices teach me different.

So I fully believe God can and does work miracles with food.  But I also believe God works through small and simple things that he has provided for us, and he expects us to be wise and actively engaged in good causes.... Which includes our health.

So for prayers over food I have also stepped away from the "Nourishing and strengthening" request...  Not because I do not believe that God can't do it... but because it seems more like a vain repetition and asking amiss, when I have options.  For me I have taken to saying things like "Bless this food that we might enjoy it"   To me this works on just about every case.  Eating food should be an enjoyable experience.  If we are trying to eat healthier... then learning to enjoy that is very important.  But if we are praying over a table of junk food, well isn't that kind of the point?  It totally sucks to consume a bunch of empty calories only to find you didn't actually enjoy it.

 

[zil2]

31 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

If we are trying to eat healthier... then learning to enjoy that is very important.  But if we are praying over a table of junk food, well isn't that kind of the point?  It totally sucks to consume a bunch of empty calories only to find you didn't actually enjoy it.

"We thank thee for this over-abundance of empty, but very yummy calories and ask thee to please make us to shake at the appearance of sugar, just not tonight... Further, we thank thee for those who have provided these treats and ask thee to bless them with wisdom and restraint so that next time, they'll bring a vegetable tray..."

[Carborendum]

41 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

When Nephi and family were traveling in the wilderness, they lived on raw meat.  That is not a very good diet.  

If done in a very specific way, it may be a decent temporary diet.  While traveling through the wilderness, they had no fruit.  Few sources of Vitamin C.  Scurvy. 

While today's standard cuts don't contain much in the way of vitamin C, the organs of most animals are high in Vitamin C.  But they cook away in high heat.

So, by forcing them to not cook their meat (I'm guessing that it was jerked) they were supplied with vitamin C until they came to Bountiful where there was fruit.

If you've ever read the book The Windwalker, the narrator says that when killing a bear, he ate "the favorite parts" raw.  He cooked or jerked the rest of the meat.  It is commonly understood among Native Americans that scurvy is a "white man's disease" because we tend not to eat the organs of animals in our modern cuisine.

 

[NeuroTypical]

Related: Is anyone else noticing a cultural shift in the US where seed oils are now being demonized and beef tallow is being hyped as a healthier alternative?

[Carborendum]

8 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Related: Is anyone else noticing a cultural shift in the US where seed oils are now being demonized and beef tallow is being hyped as a healthier alternative?

The seed oils thing has been around for a very long time.  But a lot more details have been coming out about how, why, which ones, which types...

One thing is canola oil.  It was once heralded as a healthy alternative to greasy cooking.  But then they found out it was bad.  But recently they determined "something" (which I've forgotten) about the farming and processing methods that makes it that way.  But if left organically, it is still a very healthy oil... something like that.  I could be mixing this up.

Like I said, a LOT more info has come out in the past decade about whats, whys, and hows.  It's difficult to keep track nowadays.  So, my wife makes a lot of these decisions.  But she asks me to research the stuff that she's heard.  We look at it together and determine just how much credence to give to which sources and we make a decision for us.  We do it very conscientiously. 

We hope we're right.

[zil2]

27 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Related: Is anyone else noticing a cultural shift in the US where seed oils are now being demonized and beef tallow is being hyped as a healthier alternative?

Would you like a link to some biologists explaining why seed oils are unhealthy?  (It's not technically the seeds themselves or their oils, but what has to be done to process them into something useful.)

[NeuroTypical]

Last decade I got dragged, kicking and screaming against my will, towards a healthier diet.  I try to remove as much fat from my diet as possible, so I do my best to avoid cooking oil of any kind.  It's all grilled and steamed these days.  I have a little perfume spritzer thing full of olive oil when I absolutely have to use oil for something.