hagoth

I could be mistaken, but perhaps a constructive start would be to avoid phrases like "flapping at the mouth" and "pernicious falsehood" from our discourse. :)
 
(As I recall, the instruction from the brethren for online discourse is the encouragement for us to learn to disagree without being disagreeable.)

My only real interaction with Evangelicals has been in high school, at work, and online.
 
During high school, there was a megachurch in town (one of the largest and wealthiest megachurches in that region of America) where many of the students attended, including several of the most outspoken kids on my cross country team. They were repeatedly about as rude towards me and my beliefs as you could imagine, so I didn't find their form of "outreach" endearing in the least. (That was back in the days of the Ed Decker media productions with which the youth and adults had been indoctrinated to fear and hate us.)
 
At work nearby, I once had an Evangelical boss. I don't recall how he learned I was LDS, but he asked me a question once during lunch about a somewhat common LDS practice. When I answered his question, he expressed outright disgust. Shortly afterwards, I was out of a job.
 
I would say about half of the Evangelicals I have encountered online have treated me and my beliefs with a fair amount of respect. Most of the rest have been on the rude side of the spectrum.
 
You are a credit to your faith. Thanks for being part of this community!

Hi Swart,
 
Years ago, my wife and I were fortunate enough to spend several days in your beautiful country (on our way further north). I have a little bit of Dutch ancestry, when some of the English Puritans stayed there and intermarried before going to Plymouth colony. Almost all of our time in the Netherlands was spent in the Friesland province. We attended the branch at Leeuwarden, where everyone was very nice, and one kind family even invited us to join them for Sunday dinner.
 
The next day we visited the local museum that had what was believed to be the longsword of the freedom fighter Grutte Pier. What I found additionally interesting about him is that he reportedly had his captives repeat a shibboleth to distinguish Frisians from infiltrators.
 
At one museum in Friesland was an old artifact of two human figures, one of which was kneeling, that looked distinctly like the laying on of hands.
 
Later, at a bed & breakfast in Friesland, (at a quiet farmhouse), the owner allowed us to borrow his rowboat, and I rowed my wife a mile or two up the canal to the nearest village for an afternoon outing. It was the most peaceful, enjoyable day of our entire trip.
 
While in the area, we also visited the place where Boniface was killed, and a few locations related to the history of Menno Simons. Although we only had time to see a small portion of your country, we completely loved it.
 
Enough rambling for now.
 
Welcome to the forum!

C'mon, you don't really think (at least I hope you don't) that I think our (Latter-day Saints) salvation is in jeopardy if we don't know where the story took place? What I do think is that we (Latter-day Saints) have a responsibility to warn those who currently occupy the Promised Land that their TEMPORAL salvation (setting aside their spiritual salvation) is in jeopardy if they reject God. And unless we can identify that land, I don't believe the warning can be effectively issued. A dominant theme in the BOM is that the "Promised Land" is a COVENANT land reserved for a people who will worship God and keep His commandments. Much of Moroni's final words were a direct and pointed warning to the future inhabitants of that "Promised Land". He warned that unless they served God they would be swept off and utterly destroyed. He gave us the lesson of the annihilation of the Nephites as a case in point. He wrote similarly of the tragedy of the Jaredites as another case in point. There is an eternal deed affixed to this land with an everlasting decree that those who live here will either serve God or they will be destroyed, and not just spiritually but TEMPORALLY. I believe Moroni was an American. His people were Americans, too. His words constituted a people-to-people message; ancient Americans speaking to modern Americans. Theirs was the voice of bitter experience seeking to persuade us to avoid the mistakes which resulted in their annihilation.  It just seems to me that unless the "Promised Land" can be identified, the prophecies, promises and warnings that apply to that land and the people who will live there in the latter-days, are of little or no value. Or it could be that I'm just up in the night. 

As of midnight last night several controversial sections of the Patriot Act are all done.  
 
For now.
 
I'd like to buy Rand Paul a steak dinner.
 

My prayers are with his family and the prophet right now...
 
I wonder if he's challenged Gordon B. Hinckley and David Haight to a race yet? :). 

Gonna miss him.

I'm going to be candid here (and I say this as a recently-released 11-year-old leader with five years of tenure in two different wards, and now just called to be a cubmaster):
 
This water-gun nonsense just confirms what I've suspected for a long time:  These overpaid bozos at National have no freakin' idea what it's actually like to work with boys.
 
I'm tired.
 
I'm tired of overpriced uniforms.  I'm tired of a program in a constant state of flux, requiring the purchase of a never-ending array of updated "training materials".  I'm tired of roundtable meetings where they spend fifteen minutes berating us because our Friends of Scouting contributions weren't higher--knowing very well that the guy delivering the sermon makes three times my annual salary.  I'm tired of my local Council Office, which has taken three weeks to figure out if the materials for the 2015 Cub Scout program are or aren't actually available for purchase yet.  I'm tired of whatever committee of boneheads decided that the creepy new computer-generated cub scout character that's all over the new books, is something the boys would think is "cool".  I'm tired of sub-par websites and support services, and byzantine advancement tracking/procurement protocols.  I'm tired of staff at National who can barely speak English but are assigned to "customer service".  I'm tired of needing multiple layers of permission and approvals and "tour permits" to drive my boys to a Cabela's five miles away because it's technically out of our district or council or whatever.
 
I do what I do because I respect the Church and want to help it move forward--and frankly, I like the kids I work with, which makes it all easier.  But, as for the BSA? 
 
As far as I'm concerned--the gays can have it.
 
Oh--and there will be water pistols at our next pack meeting; national nincompoops bedarned.

Forty two years ago, I ran into a friend from high school in a public restroom.  We hadn't seen each other in two years. We renewed our friendship. 
 
My friend invited me to her apartment for dinner and a singles family home evening group which the full time missionaries also attended.  I thought of myself as "the devil's advocate" rather than as curious andI asked many questions.
 
One of the missionaries said that it would be a lot easier to answer my questions if I just took the Missionary lessons.  My first thought was, "What have I gotten myself into now?"  I then decided that I couldn't condemn something I knew nothing about.  I decided to take the lessons, read the assigned scriptures and pray as instructed so I could look my friend in the eye and tell her that I had learned for myself that she was being deceived. 
 
I received answers that I was not anticipating and three weeks later I was baptized.  I have since served a full time mission in the Harrisburg Pennsylvania Mission, Married my sweetheart in the Salt Lake Temple, raised four wonderful children (three of whom are curently married) and become a Grandma.
 
I have also had many trials, served in many callings and had my testimony challenged and reaffirmed time after time.  My testimony of the divine origin of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints remains strong.  I have joy in my life and hope for my future. I do not fear what life or death have to hold.  I love my Savior and I'm eternally grateful for the inspired church leaders he has called upon to guide me through this wonderful journey.

Here.

Hi Liz,
 
I once shared a book with a young LDS woman, like you, but who had been raised in a Seventh Day Adventist family. She had noted that there had been years of friction and hurt between her and her family over her LDS conversion. The book I shared with her told about the roots of the Seventh Day Adventist faith, a Bible prophecy movement in the early 19th century, led originally by a Baptist preacher named William Miller, or as Joseph occasionally called him out of respect for his age, "Father Miller." William Miller's writings and preachings sparked a movement which taught that prophetic Bible timelines were going to be fulfilled in 1844. (By way of interest, there was a parallel movement in the Muslim faith half way around the world that taught something similar.) Joseph Smith even invited Millerite preachers to the pulpit in Nauvou. and allowed them to share their message.
 
When 1844 came and passed, and nothing happened that Miller's movement would acknowledge as the fulfillment of the Bible timelines in Daniel and Revelation, much of the 1844 movement disbanded in discouragement. A small remnant consolidated into other movements, like the Seventh Day Adventist church, which still insists to this day that the year 1844 marked the fulfillment of God's promises in the Bible. I, for one, generally believe them - and then some. I believe that Joseph and Hyrum's martyrdom marked the fulfillment of those timelines.
 
The young woman I shared the book with said that reading it healed a lot of hurt for her, when she saw that the chasm separating her and her family amounted to nothing more than, as Joseph Smith had summed up, William Miller lacking a better translation of the Bible. Or, as one leading Bible scholar presciently said prior to the end of the 1844 timeline: "Whoever attacks Mr. Miller on his point of time, attacks him on his strongest point. His time is right; but he is mistaken in the event to occur."
 
I don't know if that book ever helped that other young LDS woman's family, but she said it certainly helped heal her own hurt.
 
If that's of interest as a possible way to bridge an initial discussion with your Baptist family, you can click on my profile and go to the link at the bottom of that profile. Then, after clicking on that link, the first link on the left side of the webpage that comes up will bring you to a free online book that discusses the prophetic timelines in Daniel, that  compares and reconciles Millerite/Adventist teachings with an LDS perspective.
 
(The second link on the left side the above-mentioned webpage, if of additional interest, brings you to the free online memoirs of the Baptist lay preacher William Miller himself. I recommend that as a very edifying read, but it's much longer.)
 
My best wishes to you as you prayerfully ponder the best way to approach your family.

Hi again Richard,
 
Glad to hear things are changing for the better, as you mentioned in your opening post. For what it's worth, please do resume attendance in your ward soon. You'll want ongoing inspiration for whatever endeavors you're engaged in, creative or otherwise.
 
When you go, I'd also encourage you to reach out to others in your ward who appear to be in need of company, rather than wait for others to reach out to you.
 
Regards,
 
John

Hi Richard,
 
Curious timing. My oldest brother is actually on that list, and is in the UK right now. He should be back in the States next month.  He's an experienced playwright, and has a production that is going off-Broadway (in New York City) this summer. (I saw an earlier version of that production several months ago at BYU, and quite enjoyed it.)
 
To contact him, he's the only one on that BYU web page with "playwriting" listed in his credentials. He'll likely have his hands quite full this summer with the project mentioned above, but it might be worth a try contacting him while he's still in the UK or later this year, after things in NYC settle down. Who knows what he'll say? I wish you well!

As Joseph taught: "We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons."

The Oxford English Dictionary.
 
The CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics
 
Pong

Hi Liz,
 
I once shared a book with a young LDS woman, like you, but who had been raised in a Seventh Day Adventist family. She had noted that there had been years of friction and hurt between her and her family over her LDS conversion. The book I shared with her told about the roots of the Seventh Day Adventist faith, a Bible prophecy movement in the early 19th century, led originally by a Baptist preacher named William Miller, or as Joseph occasionally called him out of respect for his age, "Father Miller." William Miller's writings and preachings sparked a movement which taught that prophetic Bible timelines were going to be fulfilled in 1844. (By way of interest, there was a parallel movement in the Muslim faith half way around the world that taught something similar.) Joseph Smith even invited Millerite preachers to the pulpit in Nauvou. and allowed them to share their message.
 
When 1844 came and passed, and nothing happened that Miller's movement would acknowledge as the fulfillment of the Bible timelines in Daniel and Revelation, much of the 1844 movement disbanded in discouragement. A small remnant consolidated into other movements, like the Seventh Day Adventist church, which still insists to this day that the year 1844 marked the fulfillment of God's promises in the Bible. I, for one, generally believe them - and then some. I believe that Joseph and Hyrum's martyrdom marked the fulfillment of those timelines.
 
The young woman I shared the book with said that reading it healed a lot of hurt for her, when she saw that the chasm separating her and her family amounted to nothing more than, as Joseph Smith had summed up, William Miller lacking a better translation of the Bible. Or, as one leading Bible scholar presciently said prior to the end of the 1844 timeline: "Whoever attacks Mr. Miller on his point of time, attacks him on his strongest point. His time is right; but he is mistaken in the event to occur."
 
I don't know if that book ever helped that other young LDS woman's family, but she said it certainly helped heal her own hurt.
 
If that's of interest as a possible way to bridge an initial discussion with your Baptist family, you can click on my profile and go to the link at the bottom of that profile. Then, after clicking on that link, the first link on the left side of the webpage that comes up will bring you to a free online book that discusses the prophetic timelines in Daniel, that  compares and reconciles Millerite/Adventist teachings with an LDS perspective.
 
(The second link on the left side the above-mentioned webpage, if of additional interest, brings you to the free online memoirs of the Baptist lay preacher William Miller himself. I recommend that as a very edifying read, but it's much longer.)
 
My best wishes to you as you prayerfully ponder the best way to approach your family.

Hi Richard, 
 
You might want to get in touch with Alan Hawkshaw. He's a great guy and lives in England during the summer and spends winter here in Florida. He's LDS and both him and his wife are delightful. 
 
http://www.alanhawkshaw.com/
 
He recently completed a musical called Berlin and it's really well done.
 
Not in England but I've got a chance to meet Orson Scott Card who is another playwright and he was amazing as well. 
 
As far as finding people to share your interest, in my experience you may never find someone that is on your level. I myself kiteboard and would love to have an LDS friend to do it with, and even thought I've taught several members the basics they don't pursue it further due to cost, time commitment and the learning curve.'
 
So maybe you can start a club and invite some members of all levels and see if any are interested.
 
Wish you well in your endeavors.

OK, I think I found the source which some think came from Joseph.
 
"...there is a document in the handwriting of Frederick G. Williams, one of Joseph's counselors...which...has been attributed to Joseph...: The course that Lehi traveled from the city of Jerusalem to the place where he and his family took ship, they traveled nearly a south southeast direction until they came to the nineteenth degree of North latitude, then nearly east to the sea of Arabia then sailed in a south east direction and landed on the continent of South America in Chili thirty degrees south of latitude." (Cheesman 1978, 22)
 
One recent author concluded: "Considering how specific this statement is -- giving the degree of latitude for both the location where Lehi set sail and the place where he landed -- it seems much more likely that it was the inspiration of Orson Pratt than of Joseph Smith."
 
I can't speak to how accurate that conclusion is, but there is no statement known to be from Joseph (that I'm aware of) that refers to Chile.
 
By way of interest, there is also an article in the Times and Seasons, 15 Sept. 1842 which asserts that Lehi and his party landed a little south of the isthmus of Darius (Panama). However, two weeks prior, Joseph clearly announced he was in hiding and had temporarily handed his administrative duties over to others. Apparently, those administrative duties included overseeing the newspaper. (That prior announcement was subsequently printed in the same September 15th issue of the Times and Seasons as a separate article.) So the reference to Lehi landing a little south of Panama is apparently not from Joseph either.
 
A few weeks later, on November 1st, there was no issue of the Times of Season produced, even though it was supposed to be issued twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th of each month. Two weeks later, Joseph officially admitted in that paper: "I beg leave to inform the subscribers of the Times and Seasons that it is impossible for me to fulfill the arduous duties of the editorial department any longer. The multiplicity of other business that daily devolves upon me renders it impossible for me to do justice to a paper so widely circulated as the Times and Seasons. I have appointed Elder John Taylor, who is less encumbered and fully competent to assume the responsibilities of that office..." As an example of how busy he had otherwise been, between Sept 15th and Nov 1st, there isn't a single article signed as being from him as the acting editor.
 
From all of this, it appears Joseph was simply too busy with more important duties to act as editor of a newspaper during late 1842, so I wouldn't put too much weight on anything published in the Times and Seasons during those months. Wikipedia asserts that even during the few months when Joseph was listed as the official editor, the "operation was actually run by John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff."
 
Take it for what you will.
 
Regards.

Here.

OK, I think I found the source which some think came from Joseph.
 
"...there is a document in the handwriting of Frederick G. Williams, one of Joseph's counselors...which...has been attributed to Joseph...: The course that Lehi traveled from the city of Jerusalem to the place where he and his family took ship, they traveled nearly a south southeast direction until they came to the nineteenth degree of North latitude, then nearly east to the sea of Arabia then sailed in a south east direction and landed on the continent of South America in Chili thirty degrees south of latitude." (Cheesman 1978, 22)
 
One recent author concluded: "Considering how specific this statement is -- giving the degree of latitude for both the location where Lehi set sail and the place where he landed -- it seems much more likely that it was the inspiration of Orson Pratt than of Joseph Smith."
 
I can't speak to how accurate that conclusion is, but there is no statement known to be from Joseph (that I'm aware of) that refers to Chile.
 
By way of interest, there is also an article in the Times and Seasons, 15 Sept. 1842 which asserts that Lehi and his party landed a little south of the isthmus of Darius (Panama). However, two weeks prior, Joseph clearly announced he was in hiding and had temporarily handed his administrative duties over to others. Apparently, those administrative duties included overseeing the newspaper. (That prior announcement was subsequently printed in the same September 15th issue of the Times and Seasons as a separate article.) So the reference to Lehi landing a little south of Panama is apparently not from Joseph either.
 
A few weeks later, on November 1st, there was no issue of the Times of Season produced, even though it was supposed to be issued twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th of each month. Two weeks later, Joseph officially admitted in that paper: "I beg leave to inform the subscribers of the Times and Seasons that it is impossible for me to fulfill the arduous duties of the editorial department any longer. The multiplicity of other business that daily devolves upon me renders it impossible for me to do justice to a paper so widely circulated as the Times and Seasons. I have appointed Elder John Taylor, who is less encumbered and fully competent to assume the responsibilities of that office..." As an example of how busy he had otherwise been, between Sept 15th and Nov 1st, there isn't a single article signed as being from him as the acting editor.
 
From all of this, it appears Joseph was simply too busy with more important duties to act as editor of a newspaper during late 1842, so I wouldn't put too much weight on anything published in the Times and Seasons during those months. Wikipedia asserts that even during the few months when Joseph was listed as the official editor, the "operation was actually run by John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff."
 
Take it for what you will.
 
Regards.

Why not start attending there, and start opening literature discussion threads here? Best of both worlds.

This website was super helpful to me as I was converting so I was eager to get around to opening my account.
 
I was baptized last weekend and couldn't be happier or more sure of this decision I made. Heavenly Father has blessed my life so much in these past few weeks and I am just so incredibly thankful. I started meeting with the missionaries around mid-April. I had done a lot of researching on my own before even contacting them and had even started reading the Book of Mormon (my best friend is a member of the Church and she was also super helpful at answering any questions.) At the end of my first meeting with the missionaries, they told me I was pretty much ready to be baptized and we set a date. We met several times after that and they walked me through all the lessons and it was just an incredible experience overall. 
 
I was baptized May 9th and confirmed the next day. 
 
It's insane to me that it's only been a little over a month since I started this journey and I am so excited for what Heavenly Father has in store for me. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions and needs for advising as I settle in and learn more about this wonderful church that has changed my life so significantly in such a short amount of time. But for now, I just wanted to introduce myself, so. 
 
Hi, I'm Liz, I'm 20 years old, currently work at a gas station and I'm a new member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And I couldn't be happier about it. 

Field of Dreams is my all time favorite.
The Holiday is a great movie about two women who switch houses.  I prefer the LA storyline to the England one.

Here.

Here.