Misshalfway

Having a personal relationship with Jesus to me means letting Him in. So, I try to practice that. Whether I'm in a state of sadness or angry or apathy or joy, I try to let him in. I used to be afraid of Him.When I was young. I remember being so afraid at age 14 that He'd condemn me in my patriarchal blessing. What a relief it was when I read the words and felt such a love instead. I used to just serve him.....from a distance. Like guiding others up to get healed by him but keeping myself safely to the side. Now, I worship with a lot less fear. And I've learned that Jesus understood my fear and where it came from. And I learned that he liked me anyway. And he'd stay with me anyway. So, now I try not to hide anything. If I'm angry and spiteful, I tell him. If I'm sad or afraid or confused, I let him into that. And he helps me with it. And I've learned that letting him in sure relieves the stress. No he doesn't solve it all in a day. He is a god of process. But it's so comforting that I can be a human being that is growing and that I don't have to figure it all out on my own.

Have you thought about therapy for yourself? I'd say couples therapy but my guess is your husband wouldn't hear of it. Here's a book you might try... "The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to recognize it and how to respond" by Patricia Evens.

You've got to let everybody mourn the loss. Feeling bitterness or anger or dispair is part of that. You don't avoid the bitterness. You feel it, give it a voice (write, pray, vent, sing, or sing it out), and then let it pass. Don't be afraid of this part of the healing. Don't be afraid of what it means about who you are. Remember that being angry is ok. It's staying stuck in the anger or reacting badly to the anger that gets us into trouble. Avoiding the anger is also just as unhealthy. Trust your insides. They know how to mourn and they know how to heal. And don't try to control the healing of your children. It's ok if they are angry or dissolusioned for while. Healing from parental mistakes takes a long time. But that doesn't mean they won't find hope again. Listen to them. Validate their feelings. Guide them to healthy ways to cope. And it will all be fine again.

I don't think you should pretend it never happened. But I do think that empathy and validation could go a long way. I'm listening to the conflict and it doesn't sound like anyone really discovered exactly what your grandmother was upset about. The content of the fight was about pictures, but my guess is that it's about deeper feelings that never got heard. It's easy to get stuck on her mean words or her nasty tone. These elevations typically come when people don't feel heard or that their feelings/wishes, etc don't seem important to others. But if you can see past the content and talk about what it is your grandma might be thinking and feeling, I wonder if her anger would calm. Empathizing and validation....it's kinda like singing to a wild beast. Get out your sword and start fighting and well....you'll have a nasty battle that leaves both parties wanting to leave the relationship.

Sons of perdition? They are big mean jerks in the spirit world.

Hi Benedictine9. I'm so sorry that you find yourself in such a painful circumstance. I'm sorry that your wife has chosen such a sad road to try and work out her problems. I don't have any clue what the right course is for you. But I know that God does. My experience is that He doesn't always tell us what to do in these situations, but rather he works together with us in our individual circumstances and with our agency to make the best decisions. And my experience is that God is so filled with grace and so filled with tender mercies. He cries with us. He knows are needs and limits. he also knows that He sent us here to get experience. And he knew that meant that some of it would break our hearts and make us question at the deepest levels. As you make your decisions, lean into Father's grace and mercy. He does give us commandments and instills in us the uttermost respect for covenants. But He also understands that this is the telestial kingdom where things are so far from perfect and where absolute justice would hurt more than it would save. What I'm trying to say is that it's ok to let go of people sometimes. It's ok not to be hurt, betrayed, or used. It's ok to say no or that you've done enough. It's ok to end one thing and hope for something restorative in the future. May God's spirit be with you and guide you. May Jesus calm the storms in your life and more importantly in your heart. Have faith and follow where they lead you. Even if it's out of Jerusalem...away from your home and focused on a new promised land that you can't see or even fathom yet. And may he be with your wife. May she have the experiences that will help her wake up and come back to herself. Blessings to all of you.

People can and do change. I actually think that all of us are always changing whether we realize it or not. Changing because of actions, consequences, or events. I think embracing agency is the way we guide those changes. I think the OP is defining change as "change for the better". In my experience with trying to help people change, I think its a complex business. One thing I know is that people change because they want to or because not changing is too painful. Mostly the latter. Another thing I know is that changing alone is hard. Changing with God's help is better. Changing with God's help and some angel friends too....that's the best.

Why does this sound like ... 'never make any mistakes" "never have any feelings" "never have a bad day"? I don't think this is what you meant. I guess I just think that we don't always know how to practice charity and be honest/open too.

If I misunderstood you, Selek, or failed to consider the whole of your points, I apologize. In your clarification to Backroads, I think I understand better what you were trying to say. I'm afraid I found your post attacking, sarcastic, and intense. In future, I respond best when people don't use terminology like "bull-pucky", "biblically illiterate", "supremely evil", and the like. Nor did I care for your sarcasm and condescension. I appreciate disagreement if it's done with respect and tact. I shared my experience with my grandfather. It was a tender one. You disrespected that. And I did call you out a bit. But I think you are exaggerating to say the least. I have many faults. One of them is arguing these threads. I'm not that good at it. I never do well with specialized arguments and supersonic logic! I'm afraid I either slept or flirted through debate class. I'd rather share some ideas, voice a little sass, and have a good laugh. Responses like yours....they are tough to swallow. Sorry. Maybe you think I'm saying ...what was it "You judgmental pig for daring to disagree." What I'm really saying is find a different way of disagreeing or I might have to do some kung fu on you.

I thought it was sex and money. But, OP, don't go finding out her views on that. You might scare her mother!

I sure like your posts, Anddenex. I understand things better when I read them.

Selek, I have no intension to fight with you. You and I clearly aren't understanding each other well today. I think I'm going to stand down. Enjoy the thread.

What is your communication with your wife lately? Are you able to talk on an emotional level without defensiveness or interrogation?

Well, I'm a parent and I can know that if my kid doesn't fill the gas tank, he'll be stranded on the side of the road. But that doesn't mean I have to go fill the tank for him. I can let him learn. I can warn him. Not sure God's position is any different.

I'm sorry. Just for clarification, what do you mean by "something we do in our church."? You certainly aren't suggesting we have professionally trained clergy in this area. I think you just mean discussing the subject isn't out of the scope of priesthood leadership.

Well, I guess I know where you stand. Supremely evil, huh? When we lose our compassion and call people out without the inclination from the holy spirit, how different are we then? If you want to look at scripture....we don't have to look too far to see the Lord say, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone." Standing for truth is a far different thing than casting stones. Don't you think? I was reprimanded by God once. He called me out. It was an experience I could never recount accurately. I don't have the words. But I can say that it scared me to death but not because it held anything close to the tone with which you write your post. Father used the words of a hymn. It was a short but firm invitation. But it was so intense...the love was so intense that I wanted to hide myself under a rock. We should be very careful when we judge others. Very careful we know what we do before we do it. And if we are going to do it, we must be filled with love for the person. We must see them for who they really are and who they really can become. My great grandfather left a church when he was in his teens. He didn't talk about why for many reasons. He didn't want to talk about it and to an outsiders view he may very well have looked like an apostate. When he was older, he told his grandkids the story. The paster hit him frequently and boxed his ears. This caused a lifelong hearing deficit. He tried on a few occasions to entertain religion. He married my great grandmother and allowed her the LDS faith she loved. But he couldn't bring himself to trust religious leaders again. He went fishing instead and talked to God while alone on his boat. Would you like to through everyone into the fire? Without judging their hearts? What do you think righteous judgement is anyway? I think you understand one truth, one position very well. I appreciate your zealousness. But I really hope you aren't on the panel when I get judged on the last and final day.

I really think this is the best advice. The clergy in the LDS faith are not trained in psychology and do not (unless they happen to be psychologists by chance) have the credentials your doctor is telling you to look for. I actually agree with your Stake President but for different reasons. I don't think you are going to get the quality counseling you need unless you hire a professional. IMO, bishops tend to do better with temporal concerns. So, add a +1 to getting help from an LDS psychotherapist. Many of these professionals are serving in priesthood callings and can relate to what you need. This is how the church handles most counseling needs anyway. Plus, I think that your Doctor is certainly trying to give you the best advice. And I can see why he might equate religious trauma with a religion based treatment. But, there are many ways to approach trauma therapy that can incorporate spiritual aspects but that don't require a specific religious focus. Sometimes, (this is my bias), it can actually be secondarily traumatizing if the counselor (or bishop) comes from the same paradigm that did the traumatizing in the first place. Sometimes it can be helpful to get an "outsiders" help. A counselor doesn't need to believe your religion in order to understand the nature of your wounds. I'm not sure the nature of your trauma or the origins of your depression, but you could try EMDR, Lifespan Integration, Guided Imagery, trauma based yoga, or Neurofeedback. Some of these are less empirically based. But then again religion is less empirically based. :) (And as a sidenote, I could be wrong but I think I see a little dependence coming out of you in your OP. I understand the dependence that happens between LDS people and their leaders. I dont think this is always healthy but I understand it. This might be an underlying contributor to the nature of your religious trauma. I assume that because often this kind of trauma involves betrayal of trust. If so, it could be very healing to stop the dependence and own your healing journey by taking it into your own hands. The empowerment alone can be a very healing step. Take this for what it's worth.)

I'll quote Paul Simon. "Slow down. You move too fast." Look kid....I'm not the oldest cat in the den but I'll tell you what, marriage is hard even under the best circumstances. So, give yourself the best shot for success and learn how to make good decisions. Early love is a lot like being on herion. You rarely make good decisions when you are high on it! And maybe feeling awesome IS an indication that you've found the "one". Or maybe it just means you are high. You won't know until time tells you. So, settle in and enjoy the ride a bit. Young and in love only happens when you are young and in love. So don't jump so fast to the future that you miss enjoying your life! Your heart is working. That part seems clear. But don't forget to use your mind. Use God's mind too. Watch. Pay attention. Let things mature a bit. You can't know if the fruit is good until the day of the harvest. So...just wait for the day of the harvest! But don't wait too long.....or you might end up a bum.

I'm glad you used the word "perception" in the original post, because that is all my opinion would be. When someone leaves the church, how could anyone possibly know all the reasons that contributed to the decision? OR to why the anger and bitterness we think we see is there in the first place? What's that saying?.... "Walk back into your enemies past three generations and he won't be an enemy anymore." And even if we are right and we see a an angry one spewing putrid vengance in front of us, what good does it do to judge them? This isn't how Jesus does it. And even if it is, I think I'll let Him do the calling out. I'd rather just listen to why they are angry and empathize with that. Not that I'm very good at it. Perhaps I aspire to be better at that rather than rushing to argue or fix. I suspect the world would be a better place if we did this more than we did that. I think religious tentions would decline if we did this more. I think the ex-mormon's rage would decrease..... But that would mean that we would have to stop being so threatened by others and their agency. And that's hard, I'll admit.

Crisp white towels. Nate Burkus says every household needs crisp white towels.

I think it takes courage to try to make friends with others of whom we may have little in common. But, I would still encourage reaching out. I'm in my 40's and for whatever reason, I've found myself really connecting with ladies that are in their 60's. And I've loved my interchanges with them. I also really connect with women who are older and single. Who would have guessed? I guess I'm saying don't discount yourself cuz your not "cool and hip". Or maybe don't discount them just cuz they look cool and hip. Maybe they are just people who are better at looking connected. Maybe no one would guess they are lonely too. Or shy too. Or longing for an older maternal friend to share bread recipes with. Let your light shine, pretty girl! The right people will be attracted to your light.

Contrast is a good thing. It helps us see things more clearly.

Soulsearcher seems deeply aware of the sufferings of those who might be seen as or feel as if they are outsiders. It's like he sees the cries of the one when others would minimize or otherwise fail to notice.

I was in the hospital. It was 3am and I was in a great deal of pain. The nurses were aloof and busy and they didn't want to hear again that the pain killers weren't working. I phoned my father and asked him for a simple blessing. He offered me one over the phone. The pain subsided and I fell into a gentle sleep.

Yes, I've thought about leaving. And I don't apologize for that. Perhaps there is something noble about never experiencing doubt. I can't judge that. I only know that for me, I needed the crisis of faith that made me question everything. It's hard to answer why I stay. I think it's my spiritual convictions about the Book of Mormon and about gospel principles such as sacrifice, covenants, and the gift of the holy ghost. But even as strong as my convictions are, I won't lie and say that staying is easy for me. It's hard. For me, it's the harder choice.