Women's lib?

[ZionWoman]

As I was busy filling in for my husband in all his chores while he is too busy with midterms (mowing the lawn, raking leaves, taking out the garbage, cleaning the gutters, fixing a leaky sink among other manly jobs) on top of all my other womanly pursuits, which includes working outside the home while finding care for my young children to support our small but growing family while my husband attends school, I wondered what exactly woman's lib has done for me besides making it possible for me to work and making it acceptable for me to know the minutia of basic plumbing. I rather feel that it has deprived me of the benefit of having my brother or father -in-law coming to help with the manly aspects of domesticity. I only get manly help lately when something heavy is involved (heavier than a lawn mower say).

Just wondering if you have any thoughts on this one. How liberated are we if ALL the domestic and financial responsibilities fall to us. Not that I really mind. I'm very independent minded, I just wonder if something hasn't been denied us in all this liberation.

P.S. Sorry for the epic sentence, I'm notoriously bad for that^_^

[Palerider]

I know that my wife is meaner because of it......:D:D

[Gwen]

i agree... sometimes i think as women we've shot ourselves in the foot.

[NeuroTypical]

My wife and I struggle financially to make ends meet while she raises our kids. Neither of us would have it any other way.

LM

[ZionWoman]

My wife and I struggle financially to make ends meet while she raises our kids. Neither of us would have it any other way.

LM

Does she fix the sink, or is that your responsibility? Usually, I wouldn't work but my children will not go hungry and homeless as long as I can help it. My husband works too but it is insufficient to keep us afloat. This doesn't bother me as it is temporary. He graduates in the spring, much sooner than if he had worked full time and studied part-time. We prayerfully choose this coarse together and we live very conservatively (no debt and a small mortgage). :)

[NeuroTypical]

Well, we picked a division of labor that we both could live with. Basically, I do the repairs, the laundry, clean the kitchen, feed the cats, and she does everything else. The basic agreement is, if I'm sitting there being bugged because something isn't done, I'm welcome to go do it myself. It works out pretty well.

[zookeeper]

Just wondering if you have any thoughts on this one. How liberated are we if ALL the domestic and financial responsibilities fall to us. Not that I really mind. I'm very independent minded, I just wonder if something hasn't been denied us in all this liberation.

P.S. Sorry for the epic sentence, I'm notoriously bad for that^_^

Well, we're not victims of womens lib. The only way that ALL the domestic and financial responsibilities fall to us is by tragedy or we choose it that way. If you both decided to live this way temporarily then that's not womens lib...it is what you set up. Maybe I misunderstood your point but my initial thought was the agreement my husband and I made many years ago...If we ever were ever in hard times we would live in a run down apartment with one rickety car before I would work outside the home and send our kids away from home. I don't mean to sound high and mighty but I don't think the negative side of womens lib can affect us if, as a couple, we don't let it in our home.

[Winnie G]

I have done it all, held down three jobs while I raising my children alone. It was not till I married again that I realized how much I did on my own. It took some time for me to learn to give up some of those chores and was willing to share.

Sounds funny I know but I was use to things my way.

This independent behavior would come with every deployment (army) only for me to let go again with love.

As a liberated women I know I can do it all but with love and respect I share the chores of life not any less because I am a women.

PS my son said to me today when leaving the store, I do all the lifting, with a smile I said back "Of course you do what would men be if not for all the heavy lifting" LOL

[RachelleDrew]

As I was busy filling in for my husband in all his chores while he is too busy with midterms (mowing the lawn, raking leaves, taking out the garbage, cleaning the gutters, fixing a leaky sink among other manly jobs) on top of all my other womanly pursuits, which includes working outside the home while finding care for my young children to support our small but growing family while my husband attends school, I wondered what exactly woman's lib has done for me besides making it possible for me to work and making it acceptable for me to know the minutia of basic plumbing. I rather feel that it has deprived me of the benefit of having my brother or father -in-law coming to help with the manly aspects of domesticity. I only get manly help lately when something heavy is involved (heavier than a lawn mower say).

Just wondering if you have any thoughts on this one. How liberated are we if ALL the domestic and financial responsibilities fall to us. Not that I really mind. I'm very independent minded, I just wonder if something hasn't been denied us in all this liberation.

I don't know about you, but i'm very happy to know that i'm not helpless when it comes to anything other than doing dishes and popping out babies.

Why call your father in law or brother when you are perfectly capable of doing something on your own? If you need the help to perform a task, then that's one thing. But calling up some strapping young lad to do your bidding just because something is unfeminine just makes you look lazy.

If you and your husband have decided on a specific devision on labor then that's fantastic, but not all women enjoy housekeeping and not all women have the luxury of sticking to so-called feminine tasks. That is why lib exists, to give all women a sense of pride and capabilities in their duties regardless of societal gender assignment to various tasks.

[mightynancy]

I agree that in our personal lives, barring tragic circumstances, we choose how it's going to be. Sometimes there's a negotiation process, sometimes things are simply declared. E.g. "I will take the dog to the vet, I will brush the dog, I will bathe the dog. I will not scoop poo."

Along with women who repair drains, we have developed men who do laundry.

[Moksha]

I just wonder if something hasn't been denied us in all this liberation.

Perhaps these womenfolk miss the evening gatherings, cleaning the dinner dishes while barefoot, then huddling around the stove for warmth with their knitting while the menfolk speculate upon high issues in the parlor. Ah, to be glorious free from all liberation!

[ZionWoman]

LOL Moksha! That video was hilarious! Thanks for the laugh.

I'm not against women's lib and I know I chose these circumstances. I guess what it always comes down too is the fact that I feel overwhelmed by my responsibilities sometimes and I don't bare these things very patiently or graciously for that matter. My Husband and I usually do a very good job of sharing and he's a great dad and a wonderful husband (however bad he is at multitasking :).

I'm not really complaining... just trying to be ironic so please take all of this with a large grain of salt. :)

I am also going to say that I do not feel like a bad mother for taking some of the burden from my husband. My children are well cared for, safe with a trusted family member for the time that one of us can't be there (I only work part time) and I feel a little bit more sane when I get home from work.

[ADoyle90815]

I was taught growing up how to do minor repairs, as well as enough about car engines so no mechanic could talk me into some work that isn't needed. The only reason why I don't change my own oil is that I don't want to have to clean up the mess and have to dispose of the used oil. Many men I know including my brother know how to cook good meals as well as do laundry, so they help their wives with those things, especially after she's had a baby.

[WANDERER]

World Economic Forum : Gender Equality Rankings

World Economic Forum - Gender Gap Report

Breaks things up into health, education, economic opportunities and political voice.

If you look at the country profiles you can see that the number one ranking country for equity still has a 25% female/70% male ratio (roughly) for political decisionmaking and a 35/65 ratio for managerial/professional leadership and 40% representation in tertiary education positions...while the educational achievements have parity....income is still $10 000 per annum lower on average for women. There you have it...the gold standard of the best women's lib has achieved LOL.

So....that short-changed feeling...would be.... ACCURATE..

I just wonder if something hasn't been denied us in all this liberation.

Yep. Liberation.

Edited November 15, 2008 by WANDERER

[countrygirl66]

I waw raised in a home where my dad respected my mom and her abilities. She was also really feisty. I remember once he told her she "couldn't" go to a pink ladies convention. She looked at him and smiled and said "oh my I wasn't planning on going, but now it looks as though I will have to". We didn't need "womens lib" at our house. I think more than womens lib it comes down to having a h that as sister kimball said "gives you wings to fly". I feel like men are unsure if they can help you and it leaves me frustrated sometimes. I find that men swear all the time with no thought to me being there. I was returning some tile and the cart was so heavy I couldn't push it. I saw what I was pretty sure was 3 "brethren" walk past me look at me and move on. Finally a guy pulled up on a harley with full beard and leathers and helped me. I can do a lot of things myself but it is nice to be treated like a girl (that is what I am). I don't think it is about your profession (I know they helped women work where they like). I think it is a mindset that we took something from men and gave something up ourselves in the process. I DON'T WANT TO BE A BOY. So feel free to open my door, help me with heavy stuff, and not swear around me. Thanks:)

[applepansy]

I love being a girl. . . and I'm very independant. Hubby isn't always sure when its ok to open a door for me and when I'd rather do it myself. (me and my big mouth!!!)

applepansy

[Wingnut]

I was returning some tile and the cart was so heavy I couldn't push it. I saw what I was pretty sure was 3 "brethren" walk past me look at me and move on. Finally a guy pulled up on a harley with full beard and leathers and helped me.

Well, obviously the "brethren" didn't have enough testosterone, but the guy on the Harley had plenty.

(For the record, my father-in-law, a current high councilman, former bishop, father to five, grandfather to six, and one of the most spiritual "brethren" I have ever had the privilege of knowing, rides a Harley. Chaps, boots, leather jacket, and doo-rag.)

[Jenamarie]

I think women only shoot themselves in the foot when they think that, since they can now do most everything for themselves, that means they HAVE to. Also, some men are still a bit "behind" and still expect women to do the majority of the child rearing and house keeping, even if she's also working full-time. It's all about moderation and balance, and finding the right division of labor that fits your family.

[a-train]

Satan's work has always been counterfeiting. It is no different for the liberty of women.

-a-train

[Wingnut]

Satan's work has always been counterfeiting. It is no different for the liberty of women.

-a-train

Did you specifically choose the word 'liberty' instead of 'liberation' here? It gives me pause and makes me think about the point you make.

[countrygirl66]

Maybe I know him. I have been saved twice by a biker guy in leathers. The other time was at lake powell in a storm. I had two little kids in the boat and my h was trying to keep it by the dock. The waves were so bad that everytime I would grab the dock the waves would rip it out of my hand. There were some special (male) people standing there watching and guess who comes to my rescue. "Biker Guy" I have never been so happy to see someone. He grabbed our boat and held it with no problem while I got me and my little ones out. He then offered to help my h trailer it. So now when I am looking for help guess who I look for? That is right a biker guy.

[Elgama]

LoL I am sitting here watching my husband do the laundry so we don't go to church naked.!! Women's Lib allows me to vote, attend college and get a great education. 3 things my Gran was not able to do when she was born. She got to vote on equal terms with men when she turned 21. She would have loved to have done the degree I did.

Mine and my husband's Gran worked hard at bringing in the money and had to do the chores - in my Gran's case she had the ability to fix plumbing, decorate, basic electrics, anything that needed doing.

My husband frustrates me at times but he will turn his hand and help out around the house, he is as capable and happy to change a nappy as myself he will often do a night shift with my son, and is happy to wear a baby in a sling when we are out - my Grandfather would not be seen to do anything like that

-Charley

Edited November 15, 2008 by Elgama

[WANDERER]

My mum was a bank teller. Three things that weren't possible in my mother's youth: (1950's/1960's) Born 1940's.

to work after marriage, to go to university, to own a house (only married loans were approved).

The legal majority was 25. Women were not allowed in pubs/public bars. Women had separate lunch rooms in work places in jobs where there were a greater ratio of men at the time, such as in teaching. Pay was not equal then for the same job.

My Gran was a nurse. Three things that weren't possible in my gran's youth...she lived to see all of these change: (1930's, 1940's) Born 1920's.

To vote, to divorce or have an area of appeal against domestic violence, to own a house (if you were wealthy enough to avoid the banks then you could when this changed).

Three things that women could not do in my youth or that changed:

get a loan for a house (it changed *yay*);

women weren't all that represented in maths and straight science courses (my friend was one of three engineers in her year level of uni);

appeal against sexual harrassment in the workplace (that changed too) or have work friendly conditions for families (maternity leave and parental leave were given..unpaid...but you'd still be able to return to a job rather than resign).

Three things I hope for the future:

equal representation in management and politics so that we can have

family friendly laws passed (here's to the rights of stay at home mums...and dads)

and equal earning opportunity (currentlyworking women on average earn $10 000 U.S less than their male counterparts (this made the news in the U.K). For over 40 years of working that's $400 000 less! For every woman in the workforce....oh my stars...we're talking a huge amount of money that women will never see for their working hours away from their families.

[threepercent]

there are two things I want to say

1. I agree that the priesthood is the consolation prize for us lesser beings. that said, I think if you are not aware of who lead the woman's lib movement and who financed it you should apply a bit of due diligence.

2. I am really having trouble with this next part. I have rewritten it many times. If this comes across incorrectly forgive me. the bikers, the felons, those on the sex registry, those most would think of as the dregs of society, will be golden.

Edited November 16, 2008 by threepercent
wording

[WANDERER]

Men are not lesser beings.

Let's look at the right to vote in the U.K. timeline...

1884

The Third Reform Act equalises voting restrictions between counties and boroughs.

Over 50% of the adult male population can now vote.

Most British men above the age of 21 are allowed to vote as long as they have lived in the same place for a year.

1918, February

The Representation of the People Act gives the vote to women over the age of 30. It also reduces the time that voters must live in the same place from one year to six months.

Wow...it took 34 years for the men who had only a 50% voting representation at the start of that, change that to a better percentage AND give it to women as well. Er...yes...men had the vote...who else was going to vote it in? Okay, men could vote at 21 and women at 30...took another ten years for it both to be the age of 21. But still an awesome timeframe for a great change nonetheless.