hypocrites

[danz]

Dear People: I have been a member more than 30 years.

My question here is why the vast majority of members in our church do not practice our beliefs. that is, do not help each other, do not talk to each other, do not want to be involved in anything that requires giving anything, except sometimes talks and sometimes blessings, do not even want to say prayers, or talks, do not want to be involved with foreigners,except when they are ways in missions, do not help those who are not members, etc, specially in Utah. I think that there is a lot of hypocrites among us.

AMi THE ONLY ONE THAT THINKS THIS WAY?

[Elgama]

like my husband says not one of us is perfect, the moment we get baptised and take on the Lord's name in someway we all become hypocrites; We never know what goes on behind closed doors or why another person is the way they are.

I remember at the height of my illness thinking I was not doing enough, I wasn't getting to church, reading my scriptures, saying prayers certainly not doing a calling and getting a blessing that said the Lord was very proud of me I was doing the very best I could with the situation he had thrown at me.

The hardest lesson to learn as a Latter Day Saint is that we are not responsible for anyone else and to accept them even with all their imperfections even those we do not understand...... the only persons behaviour I am completely responsible for is my own and right now my unborn child and its up to me to love and accept the VT I haven't seen in a month, the Primary President that doesn't like the way I parent etc

Until I become perfected myself and do 100% VT, always walk that extra mile, constantly magnify my calling, make my home beautiful, hold FHE every week without fail etc - I am not in a position to complain about others - like President Young said those who take offence when non is intended is a fool, and those that take offence when it is intended is usually a fool

-Charley

[OneEternalSonata]

Surely, hypocrites may be found in the Church, as well in other places. Would I say the "vast majority" of members are as you describe? I would not. I intend no ill will, however, I have seen many, many faithful Saints who are sincerely striving to be who Heavenly Father wants them to be. Are they perfect? No, yet I realize we all are in danger if we look through the rose-colored glasses of complacency Satan would have us use. Though much is broken, so too is much mended.

[Jim108]

Dear People: I have been a member more than 30 years.

My question here is why the vast majority of members in our church do not practice our beliefs. that is, do not help each other, do not talk to each other, do not want to be involved in anything that requires giving anything, except sometimes talks and sometimes blessings, do not even want to say prayers, or talks, do not want to be involved with foreigners,except when they are ways in missions, do not help those who are not members, etc, specially in Utah. I think that there is a lot of hypocrites among us.

AMi THE ONLY ONE THAT THINKS THIS WAY?

I am not a member of your church. I am trying to understand the LDS concept. I have learned a few thing and one I know for sure. I would not describe the members of the LDS church as you have. I see them as some of the most giving, loving and hard working people I have seen. I think maybe you should reevaluate your position. Jim

[applepansy]

Hypocrisy can be found in any organization or religion. Nobody is perfect and a group of imperfect people make it more evident. However,...

I'm in Utah...Our Stake is known for reaching out to non-members who need help.

applepansy

[pam]

I'm not sure where the idea comes that members aren't willing or want to associate with foreigners. Nor do I understand the comment that they aren't willing to help even non members.

I currently live in Utah (have for 14 years) now. But I've also had the opportunity to live in 6 other states. I guess I just haven't seen this lack of help that is mentioned. Every area I've lived in the members are willing to help whoever is in need.

As far as foreigners...when I lived in San Diego we did much humanitarian aid in Tijuana, Mexico. A lot of it. Going there and assisting them in many projects. Last I heard Tijuana would be considered foreign. I love meeting people from around the world. Would I help them if in need? You betcha.

Plus the Church donates tons and tons of supplies to aid those around the world.

[Wingnut]

AMi THE ONLY ONE THAT THINKS THIS WAY?

No, but you sound more jaded about it than anyone I think I've ever known. Have you only lived in one place these 30 years? Perhaps if you knew members in other places your opinion(s) might change. Perhaps it's just your ward.

[beefche]

Dear People: I have been a member more than 30 years.

My question here is why the vast majority of members in our church do not practice our beliefs. that is, do not help each other, do not talk to each other, do not want to be involved in anything that requires giving anything, except sometimes talks and sometimes blessings, do not even want to say prayers, or talks, do not want to be involved with foreigners,except when they are ways in missions, do not help those who are not members, etc, specially in Utah. I think that there is a lot of hypocrites among us.

AMi THE ONLY ONE THAT THINKS THIS WAY?

I tend to think that when someone has a bad experience with a group of people, then that person will generalize about a commonality of that group. I'm guessing the OP has had some sour experiences with church members in his ward or stake. Therefore, all Mormons are hypocrites. Because "vast majority" of members would mean to me that he has met at least 51% of Mormons...my math isn't good, but using 13,000,000 as how many Mormons there are in the world, that means the OP has met approximately 7,600,000 Mormons in his lifetime and all of them were hypocrites.

[prospectmom]

I think the positive posts are right and in my experience I have experienced much of the same... My best experience was when we were moving and 4 trucks with my Hometeacher and Members showed up and helped us move it was so awesome and not asked .........

Then again I have seen negativity, been to a new ward where no one talked to me. Complaining in the pew behind me about the speaker etc.... So yes its not all rosey but I have learned If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem

Danz I am sorry your feeling so low about the members... We need to do all we can to build the kingdom up

Elagma said it best

Until I become perfected myself and do 100% VT, always walk that extra mile, constantly magnify my calling, make my home beautiful, hold FHE every week without fail etc - I am not in a position to complain about others

I am not always active and some dear members don't know how to take me but I will not let Satan try to tear at my faith through the members who are in the same walk as me and mabey feel some of the same pain..... I am going to try to be better ... make a difference... make positive change in my ward... community etc...

OK I am off my soap box..... I hope all written is taken in the caring manner it was written...

Edited March 29, 2009 by prospectmom

[Palerider]

I heard once...teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves....

This is not just a LDS issue....other churches have these issues too.

[BenRaines]

What was that I read once about the mote and the beam? Don't worry about the mote, smaller than a piece of dust, in your brothers eye, and be concerned about the beam, a true beam is a huge piece of wood in those times or metal.

I always look at what I can do to make it better and not "What others need to do" to make it better.

As a youth I was moved by President Kennedy's statement in his inauguration speech. "As not, what your country can do for your, but what you can do for your country"

In a church context to steal from his remarks "As not what your church, or fellowman, can do for you, but what you can do for your fellowman."

Ben Raines

[h2001st]

I am not a member of your church. I am trying to understand the LDS concept. I have learned a few thing and one I know for sure. I would not describe the members of the LDS church as you have. I see them as some of the most giving, loving and hard working people I have seen. I think maybe you should reevaluate your position.

Nor am I (a member)- and I completely agree with Jim108. Maybe a good exercise, danz, would be to "surf" by a Catholic forum like this and read how they treat non-members. It's certainly an eye-opener (and a little embarassing, frankly:eek:). And although a few do not represent the whole, the level of anger is abundant.

[Dravin]

do not even want to say prayers, or talks

Its a public speaking thing, I imagine most people don't really want to stand up infront of a couple hundred people and pray or speak, classes scale it down of course but people are still self conscious. The question is not, do they want to, but do they. Also, you'd get a better reaction if you approach people before classes and ask them if they will pray as opposed to just asking for volunteers.

Me personally, I don't like giving talks, put me up infront of a couple hundred people and ask me to keep their attention while being spiritually edifying isn't going to go on my top ten list of favorite things to do. When asked I do it, I prepare and give it my best but I still don't like it, don't think I ever will and I won't ever not be nervous and nervous is not a pleasant feeling.

do not want to be involved with foreigners

Explain.

herefore, all Mormons are hypocrites. Because "vast majority" of members would mean to me that he has met at least 51% of Mormons

See, in my mind that's just a majority, a vast majority would be a figure significantly above 50%. Of course how significant is up to interpretation. Its more interesting when you stop to think just how many people in your ward or stake you actually do know well enough to even hazard a guess as to their spiritual state, most of the people in my ward could be hypocrits but its not like I'd know.

[prospectmom]

When people feel such strong feelings they may have been hurt in some way... Their feelings are real I can't take away how they feel but hope they can learn more and realize there is so much more than those hurt feelings....... I have had some very negative experiences wiht members but I realized it is never the Church and Satan preys on misunderstandings ... loves to breed discontent..... I just know there are more good, helpful members than not and those that seem less good may be battaling their own problems...... What you see is not always the whole story......

[WillowTheWhisp]

Some people don't volunteer to read or offer prayers because they feel self conscious about volunteering but would happily accept the assignment to do so if they were just asked. Some people don't like to read because they have difficulty reading and are embarrassed to struggle in front of others. Some people don't communicate with foreigners because they are woried they may not understand or be understood by the person.

Giving people the benefit of the doubt often results in dicovering that they are not at all like ou think. Everyone has their own problems and difficulties which others are sometimes unable to understand.

[Elphaba]

My question here is why the vast majority of members in our church do not practice our beliefs. >snip<

Yes, I have seen much of this, though not all of it. There was a palpable but unspoken prejudice in the ward I grew up in in So. California. I know this is true of the wards in Utah as well. It can be very unkind and hurtful.

Sorry, folks. I've experienced it. There is definitely a difference between wards in the west compared to other places. I've seen it myself, and talked to numerous members throughout the country and their experiences with it. I still see it sometimes.

I think it's very difficult for members, such as those here in Utah, who would never, ever treat someone unkindly, to recognize there are those who do, because of this subtle prejudice that the Saints in the west have.

The best ward (branch) I was ever in was in Boston, Massachusetts. It was full of converts who were not raised in the Church, and thus did not grow up with the subtle prejudices that can alienate certain members. I loved going to Church there, compared to the dread I felt in my California ward.

However, I know the majority of people who are unkind don't realize it. I also know the percentage of these members is infinitesimal, compared to the overall membership.

I know members are doing the best they can to live their lives in the gospel while raising their families with all of the obstacles and frustration that anyone and everyone experiences.

They take care of their callings, struggle to earn enough money to take care of their families, get involved in their children's educations, volunteer for the community, gather together to brainstorm compassionate services, and take care of those they have stewardship over the best they can.

And while it sounds like you haven't been able to see this, I see true love and compassion directed at all people, members and non, in a way that didn't exist ten years ago. It grows with every year that passes.

Maybe I'm wrong about it being only ten years ago, because I am no longer a member and might not have seen it.

But I see it now, especially in my own family, and I am proud, and moved by their compassion.

Unfortunately, some people do fall through the cracks, and it sounds like you might be one of them. Everyone here has given you great advice, and I hope you can hear it.

Having said this, I can tell you that if you were in my ward, I would go out of my way to avoid you. I know this is cold and harsh. But people are people, and no one wants to be around such scorn and judgment.

I wish we could read minds, and always know who the person who is in need of the most compassion, and be there for him/her. But we can't, and so we're not.

I am extremely put off by the judgment and bitterness you seem to have for your fellow members who are not just "Utahans," but very real, and flawed, people. If what you've written here today is typical, you reek of it, and I have no doubt your fellow ward members feel this. None.

I'm not saying your feelings are not real, or even not warranted. But it doesn't matter. If you want to get through this, you are going to have to accept these feelings exist instead of expecting your ward members make them cease to exist.

I guarantee you most of the members either don't know when you're unhappy, or frankly, cannot take the time to care because their own obligations are overwhelming.

And I don't care how badly they behave, they are not going to change for you, and you have no right to demand they do. They decide how to behave--not you.

I sense you feel excluded and rejected. I suspect it's real, and that your resentment may have built up over the years.

Let it. Accept it. Keep going anyway.

Be nicer, even if it's hard, and even if it makes you mad.

Or not.

Elphaba

Edited March 30, 2009 by Elphaba

[Moksha]

Perhaps it's just your ward.

That is right, Mormons vary from place to place. Even in a ward that you would deem the majority to be hypocritical, there are shining examples of giving and loving people. I know that is so in my ward. It is to those shining people that I look too as standard bearers of the Church. Hopefully the rest will have some epiphany or else gradual change during their life time that will bring about that wonderful state of generativity.

Danz, would this shift in emphasis of looking toward those who "get it" be helpful to you?

:)

[Moksha]

Oh BTW, when this situation does happen, it is most likely due to their over conservatism rather than following the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Madriglace]

To coin and old phrase ...."The Church is perfect ... the people are not". Members of the church are just people stumbling along this path we are all on and doing the best they can. I have personally found that the more you put into something the more you get out of it. We have to do our best for ourselves ... we can't do the best for anyone else. People have so much going on in their lives they either don't know or don't care what is going on around them.

The best ward I have ever been to in my life (47 years a member) was a ward in Cuzco, Peru. These dear sweet saints have absolutely nothing and yet they get it. When we walked in EVERYONE greeted us .. the sisters gave us a hug and kissed our cheek. Entire familes bore their testimonies together gathered around the pulpit from the smallest to the parents. The spirit present was unbelievable. I do not speak Spanish but I got every word. I guess because they have nothing they don't have all the other issues to cloud what they see as the way the church should be.

I don't think it is a matter of how hypocritical people in the church are but how compasssionate we are when we view the things going on around us.

[NeuroTypical]

Here's a suggestion that might help:

"Dear Lord, please give me the strength to forgive people who sin differently than I do."

LM

(works for me most of the time)

[Guest missingsomething]

I think because the gospel is so pure and so inviting, that we get unrealistic expectations on how those how have accepted the gospel should live their lives. It is easy to get caught up in pointing fingers (so to speak) about what other lack - but the thing one should realize is that when you are pointing a finger at someone else- there are three more pointing back at you.

It is so hard to reach out and to do for others when you feel it is not being returned. But in the end, all you really have to account for is yourself. So yes, as in any other aspect in life - people fall short of what we think they should be doing. We all believe in the dream yet we often find ourselves not measuring up. And I think sometimes people talk about what we should be doing - not necessarily saying that they -themselves- ARE doing it.

It sounds like you have been hurt- and I havent read this entire thread, but just know we are all on different spiritual levels. We are all growing and we are all going to church for one common goal: to improve-perfect-practice at doing what we should be doing.

Im not perfect- I procrastinate a lot. I think of people but then I dont follow through, I forget dates, but I do try. I do think people in the church (and many other churches) need to learn a little humility and I do feel that sometimes people are so caught up in making sure their neighbors arent "messing up" that they forget to take care of their own problems. Not the "vast majority" though - just a few. So, Im 1/2 and 1/2 with you... Hang in there - be the example you want others to be - and you will inspire others to do better.

Edited March 30, 2009 by missingsomething

[havejoy]

I can only make a judgment based on the members I've met, almost all who have been good, kind, giving folks.

Most of the families in my ward are what I call 'blessing junkies'. They call the compassionate service lady before she has a chance to call them. They want to take food, provide rides, babysit kids, mow yards, weed gardens, etc. They have figured out the big secret; that the more you give the more you receive in blessings.

However, a very few of the families in our ward are what I would call takers. They are almost never able to go work in the Bishop's Storehouse or take food to a family in need. They are too busy to babysit or give someone a ride to the doctor. But, they will complain if they go in the hospital for day surgery and only get food brought to them for 4 or 5 days. They feel bitterness and let it show if someone waits a little too long to come mow their yard or if they have to reschedule a doctor's appointment.

I sometimes take breaks from helping the 'takers' because it's just to hard to deal with them. I always go back to help again as do the vast majority or our members.

Perhaps the OP has let the bitterness show and everyone is taking a break at the same time.

[Jim108]

Here's a suggestion that might help:

"Dear Lord, please give me the strength to forgive people who sin differently than I do."

LM

(works for me most of the time)

"Dear Lord, please give me the strength to forgive people who sin differently than I do."

That is right on the mark. Well done and LOL, Jim

[teddyk]

I'm going to say this with out pointing a finger at anyone....just yet(maybe all humans) I wonder all the time about the cold hard fact that 2000 kids around the world die every day, and most of us live in the lap of luxury.....

Why do we not use or $$$$$ to remedy this instead of spending a ka-zillion dollars on ornate bldg. homes,cars,etc; it it so we can attract the big fish an thus make bigger bucks so we spend thos proceeds on even more useless stuff...does the lord really direct us to do this while so many kids suffer for lack of food,shelter,medical care, there is a good example....we spend a ton of bucks on vets for pets.

I live like a peasant (by choice) give everything to take care of other peoples kids(who belong to all of us) I feel guilty every time I buy a video to educate my self.

[john doe]

I'm going to say this with out pointing a finger at anyone....just yet(maybe all humans) I wonder all the time about the cold hard fact that 2000 kids around the world die every day, and most of us live in the lap of luxury.....

Why do we not use or $$$$$ to remedy this instead of spending a ka-zillion dollars on ornate bldg. homes,cars,etc; it it so we can attract the big fish an thus make bigger bucks so we spend thos proceeds on even more useless stuff...does the lord really direct us to do this while so many kids suffer for lack of food,shelter,medical care, there is a good example....we spend a ton of bucks on vets for pets.

I live like a peasant (by choice) give everything to take care of other peoples kids(who belong to all of us) I feel guilty every time I buy a video to educate my self.

1) I have no idea why you chose to bring Barack Obama into this discussion.

2) I hope you are posting from your local library instead of actually buying your own computer and paying for an internet connection.

3) My daughter is still looking for funds to attend college, PM me and I'll give you a P.O. box to send your extra money to.