Is Jesus God?

[Jim108]

OK, most of you know me if you are a regular user. This question came up on another thread and I was asked to post it as a new thread. As some of you know, I am not LDS. I am born again. No religion, just a believer in Jesus. In my faith Jesus is God. I have come to understand that this is not the case with the LDS faith. This is why I believe.

1. The introduction to John's Gospel. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (The Word is God). ....and the Word became flesh. (God became flesh..ie Jesus)

2. John 20:19 Thomas declares Jesus as "my lord, my God" and Jesus states how more blessed those will be who believe this on faith alone.

3. John 10:30 Jesus says that I and the Father are one.

There is more, but this will do for now. Now I know that many places in the Bible talk about Father, Son and Spirit as seperate persons, but just as you are body, soul and spirit, God is Father, Son and Spirit and you can speak of them separately. I also would not like to get into the whole trinity thing. It has already been tossed around.

My question for you are these, (from the LDS perspective)

1. Is Jesus God?

2. When you pray, who is it that you pray to?

3. If Jesus is not God, then was Thomas wrong and Jesus confirmed a lie?

4. Is there more than one God?

I will promise you this, I will not respond to any answer. I just want to sit back and learn.

Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this site. It shows your good faith to allow different point of view. I do not think other such sites from other religions would be as friendly to outsiders, God Bless, Jim

[WillowTheWhisp]

1. Is Jesus God?

Yes,and no. Jesus is Jehovah the God of the Old Testament. He is Divine. He is a member of the Godhead. He is not God the Father. God the Father is the father of Jeus, as in "only begoten of the Father" "this is my beloved Son" etc

2. When you pray, who is it that you pray to?

I pray to Heavenly Father as Jesus taught us to. I pray in the nameof Jesus but I do not pray to Jesus or to anyone else.

3. If Jesus is not God, then was Thomas wrong and Jesus confirmed a lie?

No, Thomas was not wrong. He did not identify Jesus as God the Father. He identified him as divine and as God in the sense of God The Son.

4. Is there more than one God?

Yes.

[TheAngelPalmoni]

hmmm, I wonder, if you would be so generous as to tell us all what you currently already know about how we would answer this topic. Furthermore I hope you have an extremely good day.

~Angel Palmoni~

[pam]

2. When you pray, who is it that you pray to?

As taken from lds.org:

We are all children of God. He loves us and knows our needs, and He wants us to communicate with Him through prayer. We should pray to Him and no one else. The Lord Jesus Christ commanded, "Ye must always pray unto the Father in my name" (3 Nephi 18:19). As we make a habit of approaching God in prayer, we will come to know Him and draw ever nearer to Him. Our desires will become more like His. We will be able to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that He is ready to give if we will but ask in faith.

[pam]

3. John 10:30 Jesus says that I and the Father are one.

Though I haven't gone to read the scriptures that preceed and follow..whenever I hear this..my explanation is that they are ONE in purpose..not one being.

[Vort]

In my faith Jesus is God. I have come to understand that this is not the case with the LDS faith.

You are mistaken, but sometimes LDS word usage is subtle, so this is not surprising.

1. Is Jesus God?

Yes. Unequivocally, yes.

2. When you pray, who is it that you pray to?

I pray to the Father, and to him only. I do so in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ.

3. If Jesus is not God, then was Thomas wrong and Jesus confirmed a lie?

N/A. Jesus is God.

4. Is there more than one God?

No. There is only one God.

As I said, word usage is a subtle thing for Latter-day Saints. We don't play around with definitions, but we do use words in a way others may not. As the Bible clearly teaches, Jesus and his Father are one -- one in purpose, one in intent, one in desire, one in work. In the same sense, the Bible teaches that Jesus and his followers are one. But Jesus and his Father are not one Being, any more than Jesus and you are one Being.

[Just_A_Guy]

1. Is Jesus God?

He is a God and one of the three members of what we term the "Godhead" which consists of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Spirit (Holy Ghost). They are united in purpose under the direction of God the Father, but are separate Beings.

2. When you pray, who is it that you pray to?

Usually God the Father, in the name of His Son Jesus Christ. However, there is scriptural precedent (in the Book of Mormon as well as the Bible) for praying directly to Jesus when we are in His physical presence.

3. If Jesus is not God, then was Thomas wrong and Jesus confirmed a lie?

No. Jesus is a God. In fact, He is (per current LDS understanding and belief) Jehovah. But He is subordinate to His Father, Elohim.

4. Is there more than one God?

Yes--see above. But this is not a group of squabbling deities. It is a united council consisting of three individuals, two of whom (Jesus/Jehovah and the Holy Spirit) are subject to the third (God the Father/Elohim).

[pam]

You are mistaken, but sometimes LDS word usage is subtle, so this is not surprising.

Yes. Unequivocally, yes.

I pray to the Father, and to him only. I do so in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ.

N/A. Jesus is God.

No. There is only one God.

As I said, word usage is a subtle thing for Latter-day Saints. We don't play around with definitions, but we do use words in a way others may not. As the Bible clearly teaches, Jesus and his Father are one -- one in purpose, one in intent, one in desire, one in work. In the same sense, the Bible teaches that Jesus and his followers are one. But Jesus and his Father are not one Being, any more than Jesus and you are one Being.

Vort your answers concerning is Jesus God are very confusing. You say Jesus IS God. Do you mean Jesus IS a God? Because I could take it to mean that you are saying Jesus and God are one and the same.

[Just_A_Guy]

Vort your answers concerning is Jesus God are very confusing. You say Jesus IS God. Do you mean Jesus IS a God? Because I could take it to mean that you are saying Jesus and God are one and the same.

Well, Jesus = Jehovah. So, to a mainstream Christian, for all practical purposes, Jesus is God as they know Him. It's just that we Mormons sort of insert a new being (or two!) into the equation.

[pam]

I understand that. But since the question is being asked what we as LDS believe..I wanted to make sure any answers are in line with what we truly believe.

[HiJolly]

OK, most of you know me if you are a regular user. This question came up on another thread and I was asked to post it as a new thread. As some of you know, I am not LDS. I am born again. No religion, just a believer in Jesus. In my faith Jesus is God. I have come to understand that this is not the case with the LDS faith. This is why I believe.

1. The introduction to John's Gospel. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (The Word is God). ....and the Word became flesh. (God became flesh..ie Jesus)

2. John 20:19 Thomas declares Jesus as "my lord, my God" and Jesus states how more blessed those will be who believe this on faith alone.

3. John 10:30 Jesus says that I and the Father are one.

I think that we are all one, as in, we are of the same substance. We are all co-eternal 'intelligence'. We were all in the beginning with God. I have a spark of intelligence, so does every person and thing in the universe. We ARE one. Our form may change, our quality and quantity of intelligence may change, but we are still 'one'.

My question for you are these, (from the LDS perspective)

1. Is Jesus God?

Yes.

2. When you pray, who is it that you pray to?

The Father.

3. If Jesus is not God, then was Thomas wrong and Jesus confirmed a lie?

n/a

4. Is there more than one God?

There is only One. We call Him Father. We may become as He is, and obtain ALL that He has. It's all very mystical, ultimately. In the interim, we become 'gods' and, like Christ, give to Him (the Father) all the Glory.

HiJolly

[Vort]

Vort your answers concerning is Jesus God are very confusing. You say Jesus IS God. Do you mean Jesus IS a God? Because I could take it to mean that you are saying Jesus and God are one and the same.

Let me try to clarify, pam. As far as I know, I have only spoken pure LDS doctrine. You may take my words however you wish to take them, of course. But I clearly pointed out that Jesus and God are separate individuals, not "one and the same", so I am at a loss to understand how you could read what I wrote and get that idea, especially given that you are LDS and believe the same things I believe.

We are monotheists. We do not believe in a pantheon of heirarchically ordered gods, with Elohim as Zeus and Jehovah as Apollo. We worship one God. That God is the Father.

In the previous two sentences, I used the word "God" in two slightly different ways. In the first of the two sentences, the word "God" means "supreme ruling power", and refers to what we Latter-day Saints sometimes call "the Godhead". It consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

In the second sentence, I referenced "that God", meaning "God" in the first sentence, but referred specifically to the Father. In the full sense of the word, we worship the Father and no one else. The Father is our Father, our Creator, the Almighty. He is the Author of the plan of salvation we are now working through. It is through his power and his word (which is to say, Jesus Christ) that all things were created. Jesus himself made it perfectly clear that all glory, all power, and all might be ascribed to and given to the Father. It is to the Father and to him alone that we pray. We do not pray to the Son. We do not pray to the Holy Ghost. Our covenants are made with the Father, not with the Son or with the Holy Ghost. When we use the term "God", it almost always is in reference to the Father -- though Jesus is clearly part of the "Godhead" and Jesus clearly has been raised to be equal to the Father, so it is also perfectly true and appropriate that we refer to Jesus as God.

(I try to avoid referring to Jesus as "a God". Technically, it is a true statement, but it has a distinctly unpleasant polytheistic ring to it, and invites scorn and misunderstanding from non-Latter-day Saints who hear such terms being used. Non-LDS Christians would have to agree that, for example, the Father is "a God", but they would never use such terminology, since the presence of the indefinite article implies more than one God. In LDS theology, we understand the subtle distinction between the Godhead and its individual members, but non-members have no such understanding. Better to avoid the issue entirely.)

It is perfectly approriate to refer to the Father as "God", using that to represent all the members of the "Godhead". It would be not unlike referring to President Monson as a placeholder for the First Presidency. The decisions of President Monson ARE the decisions of the First Presidency. The First Presidency is the highest ruling body on earth over the kingdom of God, but since President Monson presides within the First Presidency, his decisions and their decisions are essentially indistinguishable. Each is called President, yet we don't have three Presidencies, but one.

This is superficially similar to but deeply unlike the unbiblical idea of a "trinity", where the worshippers seek to avoid "dividing the substance" or "confounding the persons" of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. This seems to me to be really just a fancy way of trying to eat your cake and have it, too, wherein "God" gets to be "one in substance" -- that is, one single Being -- but somehow maintain three separate identities, and this difference is somehow acknowledged to be important. The trinity doctrine is considered by larger non-LDS Christianity to be a "mystery", which in non-LDS terms does not mean something that cannot be understood except through the Spirit, but rather something that cannot be understood at all.

Ironically, while larger Christianity considers us to be an apostate and polytheistic sect, Islam considers Christianity as a whole in exactly the same light due to the "trinity" doctrine.

[HiJolly]

I understand that. But since the question is being asked what we as LDS believe..I wanted to make sure any answers are in line with what we truly believe.

Being entitled to direct personal revelation, we believe what is revealed to us. We teach what the Church allows us to teach. But our beliefs are many and varied, as were Joseph's.

HiJolly

[pam]

Now let me try and clarify what I am trying to say here.

Let me try and play the part of an investigator here. One who was always taught that the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father were all one and the same. So I come to this site looking for some alternative points of view.

Again, as an investigator, I believe that all are one and the same. So I ask the question. Is Jesus God? I am told yes. So that simple yes to a simple question could lead me to believe that the LDS religion believes the same as I do. That Jesus and God are one and the same.

I know it's semantics in wording but hopefully you can see where I am coming from as well. Vort I've never questioned your knowledge of the gospel. Just trying to look at the way an investigator might view the wording of some answers.

[jadams_4040]

OK, most of you know me if you are a regular user. This question came up on another thread and I was asked to post it as a new thread. As some of you know, I am not LDS. I am born again. No religion, just a believer in Jesus. In my faith Jesus is God. I have come to understand that this is not the case with the LDS faith. This is why I believe.

1. The introduction to John's Gospel. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (The Word is God). ....and the Word became flesh. (God became flesh..ie Jesus)

2. John 20:19 Thomas declares Jesus as "my lord, my God" and Jesus states how more blessed those will be who believe this on faith alone.

3. John 10:30 Jesus says that I and the Father are one.

There is more, but this will do for now. Now I know that many places in the Bible talk about Father, Son and Spirit as seperate persons, but just as you are body, soul and spirit, God is Father, Son and Spirit and you can speak of them separately. I also would not like to get into the whole trinity thing. It has already been tossed around.

My question for you are these, (from the LDS perspective)

1. Is Jesus God?

2. When you pray, who is it that you pray to?

3. If Jesus is not God, then was Thomas wrong and Jesus confirmed a lie?

4. Is there more than one God?

I will promise you this, I will not respond to any answer. I just want to sit back and learn.

Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this site. It shows your good faith to allow different point of view. I do not think other such sites from other religions would be as friendly to outsiders, God Bless, Jim

Wanna know the real truth? ask the lord himself; James 1;5.:)

[bytebear]

For one who comes from a Trinitarian view of God to understand the LDS view of the Godhead, one must first understand the concept of Theosis, and how it relates to the Trinity. Once one understands that we can all become one with God (in a very literal sense), then one can truly understand how multiple beings called "gods" can, in fact, be one God.

[rameumptom]

1. Is Jesus God? Yes, Jesus is God. He is a member of the Godhead, which consists of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Each is a God, and each is God.

2. When you pray, who is it that you pray to? We do as Jesus taught: we pray to God the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ. As our mediator between us and the Father, Jesus is the Way and the Only way to the Father.

3. If Jesus is not God, then was Thomas wrong and Jesus confirmed a lie?

Jesus IS God. He is a member of the Godhead, as mentioned above.

4. Is there more than one God?

Yes. There are three Gods we worship, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Jesus worshiped and prayed to the Father throughout his life and ministry. We follow that example. At Jesus' baptism, he stood in the water, while the Holy Ghost descended upon him and the Father announced Jesus' divine Sonship. At the Mount of Transfiguration, the Father again announced Jesus' divine Sonship. In Gethsemane, showing they were two separate beings, Jesus prayed to the Father, "not my will, but thine be done" (if they were the same being, they would have already had the same will). On the cross, Jesus asked the Father why he had forsaken him (if they were the same being, he could not forsake himself). And the martyr Stephen was filled with the Holy Ghost and saw Jesus standing on the "right hand of God." This would not be possible, if they were the same being.

All three create the Godhead, which is One God in all ways except physically. Their relationship is a loving and intimate relationship where they think, feel, and do all things alike. In John 17, Jesus prayed to the Father that we mortals may be one, even as he and God are one. That is only possible if they are physically separate beings, but one Godhead.

[Elgama]

I personally see it as Heavenly Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are GOD, however Jesus is not Heavenly Father.

-Charley

[blusun7]

To original Poster of this thread

I want to chime in

I got this as i have study this many times.

First off I want to say that we believe god the eternal father and in his son jesus christ and in the holy ghost.

Is Jesus God?

Let see here :)

I just want to say that john is not the only one who wrote of Jesus.John refers to Jesus as the son of the father many time. We cant use one verse to justify this subject.If you read the whole epistle you will find many references such as this one important one from john. What would you say of this

JOhn ch.17 20-21

This is jesus praying for his apostles

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

This is the same man that wrote of the scripture you posted.

Remember that you must read the whole epistle of john not a verse. This very clearly states the answer to question you had from john himself.

Who do we pray to?

Jesus of course as Jesus says in

John Chapter 14 13-14

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

About Thomas

Like i said before you cannot use one verse to justify. The lords gospel is so simple if you stated the next two lines to that chapter and verse would get you answer.

There is no mystery to this subject but man making mysteries. Here is you answer

John ch 20 19-21

20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

I have quoted from the same epistle as you have. You answer is in Johns epistle again to the question you have asked.

Is there more than one GOD? lets look in the bible.

1 corinthians ch.8 5-6

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

This is Paul preaching in corinthians. He specifically says in "heaven and earth".

I think this pretty much sums your questions up.

I just want to add that this is why there is prophets and apostles. Mans wisdom creates these questions and puts mysteries on GOd and Jesus. Prophets and Apostles put this mysteries to rest cause GOd has chosen his prophet and apostles to testify of his true gospel. I want to be my testimony that i know the Jesus is the savior and our lord and that god is the Father of all. That it is through jesus that we get to the father.That i know that joseph smith was chose as moses,amos,john many other prophets were chosen to restore the truth to his children of the world. That the book of mormon is true and testifies of christ and his gospel on this side of the world. That he loves all and would not forget his children in other places. I know this church is true and there are no mysteries to jesus gospel but the one man puts on them. IN the name of jesus christ amen

Edited April 7, 2009 by blusun7

[mikbone]

1) Jesus is God

2) We pray to the Father in the name of the Son

3) Please give the scripture reference to which you are refering to concerning Thomas

4) Yes and No

A better question would be what is the difference between the Father and the Son and what are their roles?

The Father is GOD. HIS direct interaction with mankind during our Earth life has been very limited. Essentially HE introduces and sustains the Son. Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The God of the Old Testament is Jehovah (pre-mortal Jesus Christ), Moses spoke to Jehovah in the burning bush. Jehovah is the great I AM. Jehovah created the Earth physically.

Because of sin we are unable to interect directly with GOD. That is why Jehovah - Jesus Christ is so important. He is the mediator between us and GOD. When we finally overcome sin are are resurrected we will be able to interact directly with GOD.

[Traveler]

OK, most of you know me if you are a regular user. This question came up on another thread and I was asked to post it as a new thread. As some of you know, I am not LDS. I am born again. No religion, just a believer in Jesus. In my faith Jesus is God. I have come to understand that this is not the case with the LDS faith. This is why I believe.

1. The introduction to John's Gospel. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (The Word is God). ....and the Word became flesh. (God became flesh..ie Jesus)

2. John 20:19 Thomas declares Jesus as "my lord, my God" and Jesus states how more blessed those will be who believe this on faith alone.

3. John 10:30 Jesus says that I and the Father are one.

There is more, but this will do for now. Now I know that many places in the Bible talk about Father, Son and Spirit as seperate persons, but just as you are body, soul and spirit, God is Father, Son and Spirit and you can speak of them separately. I also would not like to get into the whole trinity thing. It has already been tossed around.

My question for you are these, (from the LDS perspective)

1. Is Jesus God?

2. When you pray, who is it that you pray to?

3. If Jesus is not God, then was Thomas wrong and Jesus confirmed a lie?

4. Is there more than one God?

I will promise you this, I will not respond to any answer. I just want to sit back and learn.

Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this site. It shows your good faith to allow different point of view. I do not think other such sites from other religions would be as friendly to outsiders, God Bless, Jim

You can respond to my post - in fact I would welcome it.

1. Jesus is G-d to all that are fallen because of the fall of Adam and Eve.

2. When I pray, I pray to the Father as instructed by Jesus Christ.

3. Because Thomas was a decendent of Adam and Eve he is a fallen being and as such Jesus is his L-rd and G-d.

4. There is no other G-d to fallen humanity. Because of the fall we are removed from G-d the Father and the only means to recieve or give something from or to the Father is through the mediator Jesus Christ - who is L-rd and G-d to fallen humanity.

Because of the fall man has but one G-d who is Jesus Christ and who was with the Father in the beginning. Jesus and the Father are one by covenant in the same way that we should be one with Jesus by covenant.

I thought to add one other thing - Because Jesus Christ was not fallen his L-rd and G-d is the Father. I think all this is very clear in scripture.

The Traveler

Edited April 7, 2009 by Traveler

[Vort]

I know it's semantics in wording but hopefully you can see where I am coming from as well. Vort I've never questioned your knowledge of the gospel. Just trying to look at the way an investigator might view the wording of some answers.

My opinion is that investigators, like everyone else, learn line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. I feel no compulsion to give a fully detailed presentation about LDS beliefs in the Godhead in response to an idle question, or even a well-considered question. No matter what I say (or anyone else, for that matter), the questioner will not fully understand the doctrine. Our duty is to point him in the right direction to find truth, not to make sure we give him every last morsel that we can find. Sincere seekers will always find the truth.

Jesus is God. That is the central fact of importance. That Jim might not understand the statement the same way you or I do is not really relevant -- because I absolutely guarantee you, if I tell him "Jesus is just a God among several", he will not understand that the same way that you or I do. He may very well conclude, as others before him have done, that Latter-day Saints are unChristian polytheists.

So which statement leads Jim closer to the truth? "Jesus is God", which is undeniably and unassailably true -- though Jim will understand it somewhat differenty from me -- or the other -- which Jim will certainly misunderstand, not being able to comprehend the ideas from his present frame of reference, and thus is likely to draw a bunch of false conclusions about the gospel and its adherents?

In my opinion, the first statement is far truer and more productive. Milk is still good, nutritious food, and babies don't choke on it like they do on bread.

[WillowTheWhisp]

There is a third answer which I believe would make more sense to Jim and which describes LDS beliefs and that is simply that Jesus is not God the Father but along with God the Father and the Holy Ghost forms the Godhead. Saying that in LDS beliefs Jesus is God only serves to confuse people IMO.

[Justice]

I don't mind if you respond, Jim. I bet you can learn more about what we believe through an active dialog.

This is actually a good topic, and good discussion. As has been mentioned, it is necessary to understand our basic beliefs in order to understand our answers.

1. Is Jesus God?

The short answer is yes. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. He appeared to Moses and Abraham. He is Jehova, which was His name premortally. However, Jesus is not the Father. Jesus prayed to the Father. Jesus taught what the Father told Him to. Jesus was "forsaken" by the Father while hanging on the cross. The Father is the One who spoke from heaven when Jesus was baptized.

2. When you pray, who is it that you pray to?

We pray to God the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, and by the power of the Holy Ghost. All three members of the Godhead are present and active during prayer.

3. If Jesus is not God, then was Thomas wrong and Jesus confirmed a lie?

No, Jesus did not confirm a lie. He is Jehova, the Lawgiver in the Old Testament. This does not mean He claimed to be the Father.

4. Is there more than one God?

Yes. But, there is only One God to whom we have anything to do with. Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father.

[prisonchaplain]

As FYI, it is not traditional trinitarian teaching that Jesus is Father God. It's Oneness Pentecostals who teach that.