Polygamy in the celestial kingdom?

[Moksha]

What about a Celestial ward populating a planet in a monogomous style. You can always raise more "seed" on a one to one basis than one Celestial Dude being spread around his Celestial harem.

[Maya]

Simple: fewer dudes in the CK then women. One can not restrict those women from exaltation when they did everything they could and all the dudes in the world turned out to be total punks.

Look if seven women came up to me and tried some of that stuff out of the blue, I would run screaming in the night (either that or I would sleep on the porch and use the house to shower in if I didn't have a rec-center card).

Man, talk about getting the total heebie-jeebies. Women bully men around so bad now, how would one handle it with seven?

Yikes.

http://i.azjmp.com/0SbSYSeven? One is bad enough....

:eek:

uh my DH agrees with you... cant understand why... we women are sweet little creatures!

[Snow]

It is indisputable that in the early days of the restoration even prophets and apostles had more than one living wife. I think we can logically conclude from that that polygamous relationships are among the true orders of heaven.

You can tell what the Church thinks of polygamy if you watch their actions. If you tour The Beehive House, they will tell you all about Brigham Young's family (singular). Only when pressed, pressed pretty hard, will the missionary tour guides admit to all the other wives and children in the Lion House who didn't rate high enough to share a home with Brigham Young.

When the Church published the Brigham Young: Teachings of the Prophets several years ago, they represented Brigham Young as a monogamist.

[the Ogre]

Why does everyone keep saying this?

from me -- "Simple: fewer dudes in the CK then women. One can not restrict those women from exaltation when they did everything they could and all the dudes in the world turned out to be total punks."

I have not seen anything definitive by the doctrine that this is completely true.

You are right for both pro and con CK-polygamy. I was joking with the dudes as punks line. Nothing in this thread matters. If we live it, then we do. If we do not, then we don't. We still don't know and as such ought to focus on what we do: no polygamy now . . . thank goodness.

The only advantage I see is more adults teaching FHE. The interior-decorating battles (or bathroom-scent debacles) would leave me mowing the neighbor's lawn and planting their tomatoes.

[justamere10]

You can tell what the Church thinks of polygamy if you watch their actions. If you tour The Beehive House, they will tell you all about Brigham Young's family (singular). Only when pressed, pressed pretty hard, will the missionary tour guides admit to all the other wives and children in the Lion House who didn't rate high enough to share a home with Brigham Young.

When the Church published the Brigham Young: Teachings of the Prophets several years ago, they represented Brigham Young as a monogamist.

I think it would be a very difficult task to change anyone's mind to thinking that Brigham Young was a monogamist! He is famous in America because of the fact that he had so many wives. The Correlation Committee I think is probably deliberately not emphasizing polygamy because it's contrary to current church policy and thus not something that needs to be discussed in our Sunday meetings.

The guides may have been informed by their leaders not to bring up the subject, but my guess is that they will respond truthfully to any questions that are asked of them.

But sure, polygamy is not popular among today's judgmental masses and it's associated with 'break away' Mormons. So the church is no doubt trying to disassociate in the media from connections to groups such as FLDS. If polygamy was popular, my guess is that it would help people such as Mitt Romney win elections.

There'll never be any denying our historical roots in plural marriage though. Nor the fact that it ceased because of threats from the US government and military.

[Soul_Searcher]

Women who stay faithful to a husband who isn't righteous enough will have him all to herself in the eternities. Many women divorce unrighteous men because it's so hard to deal with him & thus I guess they won't mind sharing a righteous one in heaven. But there will be many monogmous marriages in the Celestial Kingdom because it is so rare for a man to be worthy of one let alone more. Many prophets have taught that righteous wives can save their unrighteous husbands (& visa versa) to eventually be with them in the Cel. Kingdom after they pay for their unrepentant sins of nelgect, abuse, adultery or abandonment, etc, in Spirit Prison. But the husband will have lost his opportunity for more than one wife, & like the Prodical Son he will live there with his wife because of her love & righteousness, he having spent or lost his inheritance. So many women throughout history have stayed faithful & took care of the home despite having husbands who were unfaithful by wandering eyes, feelings or hands or worse. Thus it makes it worth it to hang on through the hard times in marriage, else if it wasn't possible to save your spouse, who would stay married, for in very few marriages both are truely righteous & have true love for each other.

If this is true then what motivation is there for men to stay worthy and righteous? This situation makes an unequal marriage as the man cruises along as he sees fit being selfish, lazy or whatever, and the woman puts up with it because she thinks they will both be in the CK if she does. This is demeaning to women. Even MORE demeaning is the notion that he will have earned a free ticket into the CK because of his wife that had to put up with him. Hardly fair. And I suppose if the shoe was on the other foot, this could not happen. This brings back all my issues about men and womens roles in the church, and the inequality of it all.

[Soul_Searcher]

You can tell what the Church thinks of polygamy if you watch their actions. If you tour The Beehive House, they will tell you all about Brigham Young's family (singular). Only when pressed, pressed pretty hard, will the missionary tour guides admit to all the other wives and children in the Lion House who didn't rate high enough to share a home with Brigham Young.

When the Church published the Brigham Young: Teachings of the Prophets several years ago, they represented Brigham Young as a monogamist.

Snow you have made me realise that ommitting certain aspects of our history is not trying to lie, but more about saying, this is what we believe at the moment, so we will focus on that. A fair enough explanation.

However, surely this very action is a 're-branding' of sorts with the church choosing the bits it likes in order to support its current teachings?

[tarabc]

I find is interesting how people say, "Dont worry about it now." Come on, really? ETERNAL PERSPECTIVE MUCH?

My husband always feels strongly against the polygamy in eternities deal. There may be exceptions, I think the Lord is mindful of our different cultures and times, maybe that is why we were put on the earth at the times we were. But really, do you think Heavenly Father would lead you to your spouse, learn how to live together, raise children, have grandchildren,have you spend your whole life together and then bring someone else into the picture? I dont think so.

I do know an eternal principle..... AGENCY. We will ALWAYS have our agency.

[bytor2112]

I find is interesting how people say, "Dont worry about it now." Come on, really? ETERNAL PERSPECTIVE MUCH?

My husband always feels strongly against the polygamy in eternities deal. There may be exceptions, I think the Lord is mindful of our different cultures and times, maybe that is why we were put on the earth at the times we were. But really, do you think Heavenly Father would lead you to your spouse, learn how to live together, raise children, have grandchildren,have you spend your whole life together and then bring someone else into the picture? I dont think so.

I do know an eternal principle..... AGENCY. We will ALWAYS have our agency.

How do you know? Maybe, the principle of plural marriage was something we rejoiced at in the pre-existence and perhaps in the eternities the veil will be lifted from those memories and we will have a greater understanding and also be a whole lot more Christ-like in our approach to everything.

[omega0401]

...do you think Heavenly Father would lead you to your spouse, learn how to live together, raise children, have grandchildren,have you spend your whole life together and then bring someone else into the picture? I dont think so.

I do know an eternal principle..... AGENCY. We will ALWAYS have our agency.

What about all those righteous women who's husbands did not want any part of the gospel or if they once did, have turned away from it? I'm so thankful that Heavenly Father has given these righteous sisters hope and even an assurance of having an eternal companion some day. That they will never be without a companion in the hereafter. And yes, that might have to be in polygamy situations.

I also believe Bytor's right. That we have already understood and accepted the principle of polygamy in our premortal life. We may have understood the principle so much better there than we understand it here. And because of that, in the hereafter, it will be much easier to once again accept it.

Will will always have our agency. It doesn't mean polygamy will be forced upon. But we understand it so much better in the hereafter it will be easier to accept. Our agency will permit us to do that.

I believe the Lord has provided blessings for us in so many ways that we don't really understand it all yet!

Edited July 23, 2009 by omega0401

[Hemidakota]

I find is interesting how people say, "Dont worry about it now." Come on, really? ETERNAL PERSPECTIVE MUCH?

My husband always feels strongly against the polygamy in eternities deal. There may be exceptions, I think the Lord is mindful of our different cultures and times, maybe that is why we were put on the earth at the times we were. But really, do you think Heavenly Father would lead you to your spouse, learn how to live together, raise children, have grandchildren,have you spend your whole life together and then bring someone else into the picture? I dont think so.

I do know an eternal principle..... AGENCY. We will ALWAYS have our agency.

Think again...not just Heavenly Father but Heavenly Mother can lead you to the one who will be your companion for eternally.

[tarabc]

"What is sealed i on earth is sealed in heaven"

"There will be no giving or taking of marriage after this life."

[hordak]

Why does everyone keep saying this? I have not seen anything definitive by the doctrine that this is completely true. Consider all the male children that have been killed. Many men have died in wars throughout the centuries.

Again, I say, we don't know for certainty that the Celestial Kingdom will have polygamy. It may or may not--and there are dozens of scriptures to support either idea.

I focus on the basics and keep my faith. God is merciful and loving and omniscient. He will take care of things and I'm sticking my faith in that when it comes to the question of polygamy. I am grounding my faith in Jesus who would help me to embrace it if it came down to it.

I saw a study on infant mortality once that does indicate male children die in higher numbers then females (Before age 8).

Not only will there not be more men then women. The vast majority will have never been Mormon.

[Hemidakota]

So what happens to those faithful women who have no companions and receive a reward of the Celestial Kingdom?

[Wingnut]

Why do we have three threads on polygamy going in the same forum at the same time? Really? For so many people being so adamantly against it, you all really seem to love talking about it.

Can we have a central thread referencing polygamy, like we do for tithing and the Word of Wisdom?

Edited July 23, 2009 by Wingnut

[Hemidakota]

New folder?

[bmy-]

The question is.. if it would add to your own glory and allow more your own children to experience salvation.. would it be worth it?

I highly doubt it will be a celestial law. I for one would disregard such advice/laws.. barring a change of heart. One wife seems like a handful..

[Hemidakota]

Then what will occur with those who have plural wives and sealed on Earth?

[ruthiechan]

Why does everyone keep saying this? I have not seen anything definitive by the doctrine that this is completely true. Consider all the male children that have been killed. Many men have died in wars throughout the centuries.

Again, I say, we don't know for certainty that the Celestial Kingdom will have polygamy. It may or may not--and there are dozens of scriptures to support either idea.

I focus on the basics and keep my faith. God is merciful and loving and omniscient. He will take care of things and I'm sticking my faith in that when it comes to the question of polygamy. I am grounding my faith in Jesus who would help me to embrace it if it came down to it.

How is it that you can believe that there will be no polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom? Men whose wives have died and remarry to a woman not previously sealed can marry her in the Temple.

Doctrine and Covenants 132

[bytebear]

Of course there will be polygamy in heaven. What, you think Brigham Young is going to have to choose just one of his wives? Come on...

[Moksha]

For women willing to buy into polygamy, would there be an upper limit on the number of Celestial other women you would be willing to put up with?

[beefche]

How is it that you can believe that there will be no polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom? Men whose wives have died and remarry to a woman not previously sealed can marry her in the Temple.

Doctrine and Covenants 132

I am well aware of that scripture and many others. Read my words again. I said I am not convinced that there will be polygamy in CK.

Perhaps I'm looking at this from my mortal perspective. But I can tell you that I do not want to be a 2nd wife. From the examples in the scriptures to examples of early Church history, these women may have been righteous, but it appears that they weren't treated as the 1st wives were. Jacob is perhaps an exception--he loved Rachel, but had to marry her 2nd and it was clear that he treated Leah differently than Rachel.

If you look at the scriptures talking about marriage, each talk about becoming one with each their spouse. Adam was commanded to cleave to Eve. It's difficult for me to understand how a man can be one with this wife and that wife and that wife, etc.

I've wondered about our feelings--knowing that we are mortal and our feelings are often influenced by that--but, when people think about polygamy, there is a visceral reaction. Look at the difficulties there were in early Church history regarding polygamy. Although the early members believed it was commanded from God (and I believe it too), they still struggled with doing it. Does it say something that our visceral reactions are so abhorrent to the idea? To me, it is similar to Abraham or Nephi being commanded to kill another--both had strong feelings against, but were willing to do it because God commanded.

Again, I am saying that I am not convinced that we will all be required to live the law of polygamy in the CK. Only those who are in the highest degree will be married and with all the men who have died in infancy or in war, it could be possible that there will be one woman and one man marriages. Further, I remember reading a quote once from Brigham Young defending polygamy. I'm paraphrasing, but in essence, he said that it is possible for a man to love more than one woman at the same time. When I read that, my first thought was, "Well, it's possible for a woman to love more than one man at the same time. Why aren't women allowed to marry more than one man?"

To reiterate: I believe in Jesus that He is my Savior and He will help me accept any doctrine or anything else with which I may have difficulty. I am not going to worry about it now--I have enough to work on--I don't need to add anything to that.

[bytor2112]

How is it that you can believe that there will be no polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom? Men whose wives have died and remarry to a woman not previously sealed can marry her in the Temple.

Doctrine and Covenants 132

likely will be practiced during the millenium.

[tarabc]

Why does everyone assume that 1. women are more righteous than men and 2. there are more women in general?

What about men who die in wars? Those with mental disablities that never had the opportunities ( Example, Autism is much more prevelant in men)? Mortality rate is much higher in men, as well with little babies boys that were never born...

Also, if a woman is more righteous and never had the chance, why would she want part of someone, and not one for her own, if she was righteous all her life, wouldnt she deserve the blessing of her own husband if that is what she choose?

I am just wondering, where are all these extra women going to come from? There are not that many extra women just floating around. I think it possible that some live it, but just as the early church-- some chose to and some did not and God was not angry with those who did not. I believe He respects us as individuals with different feelings and needs, thats why we are all different. I also believe culture plays a HUGE part in this. We believe we were saved for the last days... others were put in other times for a reason. Our earthy experience is important, and we have grown acustom to many ways of life, our prophets NOW say that is BAD! NO! You will be excommunicated if you participate in something like that now. Of course it seems wrong to us. To Abraham, maybe not so much... I dont think when we die, we will forget the teachings of our prophets. I can personally say I will always remember Pres. Hinckley and his words, and thats good.

Another thing that blows my mind, is why do we assume we will all be the same? Its like you look at people now that have 10 kids and you have 3, are they wrong? Is it bad? No, they choose a different number of kids than you. Or you look at the prophet, are you bad because youre not one, no, youre just different. I do not think the CK will be cookie cutter versions of everything. Diversity will be there. For all we know, maybe there is just one Heavenly Mother. I mean, time is not an issue for her, she took as loooong as she needed to have all her many little spirit kiddies.

As time goes on the church progresses. Now we have more memebers, more temples, more freedom of religion than in the 1800's. We are moving forward.... I have often thought about the scripture that says the spirit is the same yesterday today and forever, polygamy did not last, just as the preisthood ban didnt. Do you think the priesthood will be taken away from blacks someday? I dont think other's will be forced to join a marriage either.

I suppose I just dont understand how people can testify of what will happen in anothers personal life. Pray for yourself, your marriage, your family and let others do the same for theirs. As I said, we are different, with different circumstances and just like the early church I believe we will have a choice and we will not all choose the same thing and our loving Heavenly Father will accept that. The gospel's purpose is to provide peace and joy in this life. For me, thinking of polygamy does not, and so I have found for me, that wont be that case, otherwise the gospel would not make sense in my life. The gift of the Holy Ghost is for INDIVIDUALS and their spiritual quests, not to tell others what to do and what is right.

Edited July 24, 2009 by tarabc
left out some stuff

[Justice]

You make some good points tatabc.

I'd like to go on record as saying I DO think women are generally more spiritual than men. I think spirituality leads to righteousness. Just my opinion though.