Going to Hell

[beefche]

I've heard some Christians say, "He/She is going to hell for that." I can only assume they really mean it given the context of the discussion. My question is how can anyone know that for certain? Isn't God the only judge of our soul? I know we all make judgments, but I'm talking about "the final judgment."

[Connie]

Correct!

From the Church publication True to the Faith: "Remember that only God, who knows each individual’s heart, can make final judgments of individuals (see Revelation 20:12; 3 Nephi 27:14; D&C 137:9). "

link provided: LDS.org - Family Chapter Detail - Judging Others

[Vort]

Zip code: 48169

[talisyn]

Zip code: 48169

That's too far away. I'd go to the beach instead.

[Dravin]

Zip code: 48169

Its also popular for Missionaries to get their pictures taken in front of the Welcome to Othello sign with one standing in front of the 'Ot' and the other the last 'o'. Doesn't trump a place where you don't have to play with the name though. :)

[havejoy]

I've been through Purgatory and I'm not even Catholic.

(it's in Colorado)

[prisonchaplain]

I've heard some Christians say, "He/She is going to hell for that." I can only assume they really mean it given the context of the discussion. My question is how can anyone know that for certain? Isn't God the only judge of our soul? I know we all make judgments, but I'm talking about "the final judgment."

While such a statement may be abrupt, the notion behind it is LDS to the core. After all, you hesitate to say you are saved because who can be sure they'll endure to the end? The proper interpretation of, "He's going to hell for that," is, "God hates that sin and if he does not stop doing it, or repent, he will go to hell for that."

We can judge sin. The day's coming when we'll judge angels. What we should not do is give up on any of God's creation.

[beefche]

Thank you, PC, for your reply. I want to understand because I just feel that it's presumptuous (sp??) of us to judge others.

I understand when Christians say they are saved that they mean that they have accepted Jesus as their Savior. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I never thought they meant that they had a ticket to heaven. I just thought it meant that they accepted Jesus and are following His way.

But to say that an obvious sin is going to place someone in Hell seems presumptuous. I mean, we're all sinners--some of us just have a sin that is obvious to others while some sins are only known to God. Even those of us who accept and follow Christ are sinners. Only God knows us personally, knows our heart, our desires, our intentions, our circumstances. Who's to say someone who steals will go to hell? Perhaps that person was raised that no one owns anything, so taking something isn't stealing. Who knows? Well, God does.

I guess what I find confusing is how anyone can know the ultimate judgment of someone when it is impossible to know all aspects of that person. Yes, we can judge an act of someone, but to say that person is doomed is beyond me.

[Hemidakota]

I've heard some Christians say, "He/She is going to hell for that." I can only assume they really mean it given the context of the discussion. My question is how can anyone know that for certain? Isn't God the only judge of our soul? I know we all make judgments, but I'm talking about "the final judgment."

As any Christian seen Hell? Did any of these Christians seen Lucifer? How can they judge something without further light and truth?

[Maxel]

I was reading an article posted by Just_A_Guy in another thread. I thought this passage was particularly enlightening.

Since mortals cannot suppose that they will be acting as final judges at that future, sacred time, why did the Savior command that we not judge final judgments? I believe this commandment was given because we presume to make final judgments whenever we proclaim that any particular person is going to hell (or to heaven) for a particular act or as of a particular time. When we do this--and there is great temptation to do so--we hurt ourselves and the person we pretend to judge.

The effect of one mortal's attempting to pass final judgment on another mortal is analogous to the effect on athletes and observers if we could proclaim the outcome of an athletic contest with certainty while it was still underway. Similar reasoning forbids our presuming to make final judgments on the outcome of any person's lifelong mortal contest.

President Brigham Young taught:

I am very thankful that it is not our province . . . to judge the world; if it were, we would ruin everything. We have not sufficient wisdom, our minds are not filled with the knowledge and power of God. . . . And we must also acquire the discretion that God exercises in being able to look into futurity, and to ascertain and know the results of our acts away in the future, even in eternity, before we will be capable of judging. [JD 19:7*8]

Judge Not and Judging- Dallin H. Oaks

[Moksha]

[beefche]

I wanna go here....Hell, Michigan USA 48169

[kathysmike]

I have been to Hell Mi numerous times, it is actualy a nice quite place lots lakes for fishing and other water sports surround the area.

[pam]

I know Vort posted a link about Hell, Michigan earlier in this thread....but Beefche at least yours had pictures. But it sure doesn't look like Hell to me.

[beefche]

I know Vort posted a link about Hell, Michigan earlier in this thread....but Beefche at least yours had pictures. But it sure doesn't look like Hell to me.

Nope, but for the Cougar in me, this is hell....The University of Utah. For the Hoosier in me, this is hell...Purdue University

[mikbone]

While such a statement may be abrupt, the notion behind it is LDS to the core. After all, you hesitate to say you are saved because who can be sure they'll endure to the end? The proper interpretation of, "He's going to hell for that," is, "God hates that sin and if he does not stop doing it, or repent, he will go to hell for that."

Im gonna have to disagree with this statement, especially that it is LDS to the core.

First off "saved" is not an LDS term. We use the term in speaking with non-LDS christians so that we can have an area of common ground but there is no such thing as being saved in LDS doctrine. We believe in redemption from the fall of Adam, which all receive freely because of the Atonement. The term exaltation on the other hand refers to a person fulfilling all requirements requisite for entrance into the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom.

Second off we don't even believe in a place called Hell. Hell as defined by non-LDS christians is a place of eternal torment where there is fire and devils, etc. It does not exist according to our doctrine. Sure we believe in Spirit Prison (which is temporary and there is no physical punishment because no one there will have a body). We also believe in an outer darkness but NO ONE knows what occurs in outer darkness (D&C 76: 43-46), and those people that eventually go there will be a very miniscule amount. So I'm gonna take Outer Darkness completely out of the discussion.

Thus LDS members don't believe that anyone can go to Hell. The worst place that LDS students believe that people can go is actually the Telestial Kingdom which is a Degree of Glory. And interestingly, I think that most other Christian religions associate "Heaven" with what we believe is the Telestial Kingdom.

Edited May 13, 2009 by mikbone

[pam]

The worst place that LDS students believe that people can go is actually the Telestial Kingdom

Actually the worst place I could think of going is outer darkness. But I understand what you are saying.

[talisyn]

I have been to Hell Mi numerous times, it is actualy a nice quite place lots lakes for fishing and other water sports surround the area.

That's how they get you

[pam]

Hahaha that was good Talisyn

[Mahonri]

First, I'm not afraid of going to Hell, I'm from Phoenix.

Second, when I die, I'm going to Hell... to preach the gospel.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Mahonri

[Guest missingsomething]

I've heard some Christians say, "He/She is going to hell for that." I can only assume they really mean it given the context of the discussion. My question is how can anyone know that for certain? Isn't God the only judge of our soul? I know we all make judgments, but I'm talking about "the final judgment."

my point exactly - I am always saying it is not our responsibility or our right to judge others.

[prisonchaplain]

Im gonna have to disagree with this statement, especially that it is LDS to the core.

First off "saved" is not an LDS term. We use the term in speaking with non-LDS christians so that we can have an area of common ground but there is no such thing as being saved in LDS doctrine. We believe in redemption from the fall of Adam, which all receive freely because of the Atonement. The term exaltation on the other hand refers to a person fulfilling all requirements requisite for entrance into the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom.

Am I wrong or are you confirming my point??? You don't "own" the term. You use it cautiously. Why? Righteousness, obedience, endurance to the end are so important. The irony I pointed out is that saying someone is going to hell for doing something is the corallary--unrighteousness damns the soul.

I'm not trying to define LDS doctrine here. Nearly everyone here is more qualified to do that. Rather, I'm just finding some irony in that an evangelical would impose the threat of hell upon someone NOT OBEYING THE COMMANDS...not enduring to the end.

Second off we don't even believe in a place called Hell. Hell as defined by non-LDS christians is a place of eternal torment where there is fire and devils, etc. It does not exist according to our doctrine. Sure we believe in Spirit Prison (which is temporary and there is no physical punishment because no one there will have a body). We also believe in an outer darkness but NO ONE knows what occurs in outer darkness (D&C 76: 43-46), and those people that eventually go there will be a very miniscule amount. So I'm gonna take Outer Darkness completely out of the discussion.

Again, you overinterpret my post. I was not insisting that LDS believe in the evangelical understanding of hell. You don't. I was highlighting irony and similarity, not equivalence of belief.

[Hemidakota]

Im gonna have to disagree with this statement, especially that it is LDS to the core.

First off "saved" is not an LDS term. We use the term in speaking with non-LDS christians so that we can have an area of common ground but there is no such thing as being saved in LDS doctrine. We believe in redemption from the fall of Adam, which all receive freely because of the Atonement. The term exaltation on the other hand refers to a person fulfilling all requirements requisite for entrance into the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom.

Second off we don't even believe in a place called Hell. Hell as defined by non-LDS christians is a place of eternal torment where there is fire and devils, etc. It does not exist according to our doctrine. Sure we believe in Spirit Prison (which is temporary and there is no physical punishment because no one there will have a body). We also believe in an outer darkness but NO ONE knows what occurs in outer darkness (D&C 76: 43-46), and those people that eventually go there will be a very miniscule amount. So I'm gonna take Outer Darkness completely out of the discussion.

Thus LDS members don't believe that anyone can go to Hell. The worst place that LDS students believe that people can go is actually the Telestial Kingdom which is a Degree of Glory. And interestingly, I think that most other Christian religions associate "Heaven" with what we believe is the Telestial Kingdom.

We do believe that those who did not make this mortality and were casted out will suffer the fate of punishment and then the end comes. When? No men know but GOD HIMSELF. Even those who received the Second Comforter and refused to repent, LDS who murders and refuse to repent, will suffer the same fate. There is such a place of darkness as Alma the Younger described. Though I do concur the mainstream religions got it wrong and still listen to the man made dogma of the past from those who do not even know what, where, and why awaits the fate of those who knew GOD and fought against HIM.

Hell is not endless; there is an exit to hell as well as an entrance-there is an end to the torment of the damned.

James E. Talmage

Even to hell there is an exit as well as an entrance; and when sentence has been served, commuted perhaps by repentance and its attendant works, the prison doors shall open and the penitent captive be afforded opportunity to comply with the law, which he aforetime violated. . . .

The inhabitants of the telestial world-the lowest of the kingdoms of glory prepared for resurrected souls, shall include those "who are thrust down to hell" and "who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection." (D&C 76:82-85) And though these may be delivered from hell and attain to a measure of glory with possibilities of progression, yet their lot shall be that of "servants of the Most High, but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end." (v.112)

Deliverance from hell is not admittance to heaven. (The Vitality of Mormonism, pp. 255-56) DGSM:93

Joseph Smith,

receiving the Word of the Lord

And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless.

5. Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my left hand.

6. Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

7. Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name's glory.

8. Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.

9. I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.

10. For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore-

11. Eternal punishment is God's punishment.

12. Endless punishment is God's punishment. (A commandment of God for Martin Harris, March 1830) D&C 19:4-12

Edited May 13, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

President George Q. Cannon

I have thought sometimes that some of our people are inclined to think there is no hell and that nobody is going to hell. I tell you there will be a large number of people go to hell; they will suffer torment and will go where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth; they will be in outer darkness and suffer far beyond anything we can conceive of. Latter-day Saints especially who commit sin, if they die in their sin, will go to hell, and they will suffer torment there until the day of redemption. But think of the length of time during which they will be in this torment (Gospel Truth, 1:85) TLDP:639

Elder Joseph Fielding Smith

All liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers and all who love and make a lie, shall not receive the resurrection at this time, but for a thousand years shall be thrust down into hell where they shall suffer the wrath of God until they pay the price of their sinning, if it is possible, by the things which they shall suffer. [see Church News, April 23, 1932, p.

These are the "Spirits of men who are to be judged and are found under condemnation; And these are the rest of the dead; and they live not again until the thousand years are ended, neither again, until the end of the earth." [D&C 88: 100-01]. . . .

These are the hosts of the telestial world who are commanded to "suffer the wrath of God on earth;" and who are "cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work" [Era, vol 45, p. 781; D&C 76:104-06]. . . .

This suffering will be a means of cleansing, or purifying, and through it the wicked shall be brought to a condition whereby they may, through the redemption of Jesus Christ, obtain immortality. Their spirits and bodies shall be again united, and they shall dwell in the telestial kingdom. But this resurrection will not come until the end of the world. (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:295-98) TLDP:564-65

Elder Parley P. Pratt

[T]o those who deserve it [The spirit world after mortality] . . . is a place of punishment, a purgatory or hell, where spirits are buffeted till the day of redemption. (Key to the Science of Theology, pp. 132-33) TLDP:637

Peter

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; . . . (Peter says the Lord knows how to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement; letter to members of the Church, about A.D. 60-64) 2Pet.2:4

Alma, the younger,

quoted by Mormon

And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil-for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house-and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.

14. Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection. (Alma speaks to his son Corianton, concerning the resurrection of the dead, about 73 B.C.) Alma 40:13-14

Elder James E. Talmage

That righteous and unrighteous dwell apart during the interval between death and resurrection is clear. Paradise, or as the Jews like to designate that blessed abode, "Abraham's bosom," [see parable of Lazarus and the Rich man in Luke 16:19-31.] is not the place of final glory, any more than the hell to which the rich man's spirit was consigned is the final habitation of the condemned. To that preliminary or intermediate state, however, men's works do follow them; and the dead shall surely find that their abode is that for which they have qualified themselves while in the flesh. JTC:468

Prophet Joseph Smith

These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. 104. These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. 105. These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. 106. These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; (Vision to Joseph and Sidney Rigdon, Feb. 16, 1832) D&C 76:103-106

Jacob, brother of Nephi,

quoted by Nephi

O how great the goodness of our God, who prepareth a way for our escape from the grasp of this awful monster; yea, that monster, death and hell, which I call the death of the body, and also the death of the spirit.

11. And because of the way of deliverance of our God, the Holy One of Israel, this death, of which I have spoken, which is the temporal, shall deliver up its dead; which death is the grave.

12. And this death of which I have spoken, which is the spiritual death, shall deliver up its dead; which spiritual death is hell; wherefore, death and hell must deliver up their dead, and hell must deliver up its captive spirits, and the grave must deliver up its captive bodies, and the bodies and the spirits of men will be restored one to the other; and it is by the power of the resurrection of the Holy One of Israel. (Jacob teaches the doctrine of the atonement to the people of Nephi, 559-545 B.C.) 2Ne.9:10-12

Elder Joseph Fielding Smith

Those who enter into the telestial kingdom . . . are the ungodly, the filthy who suffer the wrath of God on earth, who are thrust down to hell where they will be required to pay the uttermost farthing before their redemption comes. These are they who receive not the gospel of Christ and consequently could not deny the Holy Spirit while living on the earth.

They have no part in the first resurrection and are not redeemed from the devil and his angels until the last resurrection, because of their wicked lives and their evil deeds. Nevertheless, even these are heirs of salvation, but before they are redeemed and enter the kingdom, they must repent of their sins, and receive the gospel, and bow the knee, and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer of the world. (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:22) DGSM:93

Elder James E. Talmage

Upon all who reject the word of God in this life will fall the penalties provided; but after the debt has been paid the prison doors shall be opened, and the spirits once confined in suffering, then chastened and clean, shall come forth to partake of the glory provided for their class. AF:134

Prophet Joseph Smith

There is no pain so awful as that of suspense. This is the punishment of the wicked; their doubt, anxiety and suspense cause weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth. (General conference, Nauvoo, April 1843) HC5:340

Prophet Joseph Smith

The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers. (At the Stand in Nauvoo, Ill., June 11, 1843) HC5:425

Elder James E. Talmage

The false assumption, based upon sectarian dogma, that in the hereafter there shall be but two places, states or conditions for the souls of mankind-heaven or hell, with the same glory in all parts of the one and the same terrors throughout the other-is untenable in the light of divine revelation. AF:82-83

John

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (John sees the judgment of man at the end of the Millennium) Rev.20:12-13

Author's Note:Bruce R. McConkie explains why the word "hell" is used by prophets: "Messianic prophecies . . . describe in a most graphic way how the Lord saves men from the direful fate that would be theirs if he had not atoned for their sins. It is known as freeing the hosts of men from prison-from the prison of death, of hell, of the devil, and of endless torment. And how apt and pointed the illustration is, for the prisons of ancient times were hell holes of death, disease, and despair. They were dungeons of filth, corruption, and creeping denizens. Sheol itself was known as the pit, the dungeon of despair, the nether realms of torment, the Hades of hell. To be in prison was worse than a living hell, and to be freed therefrom was to arise from death to life. It is no wonder that the prophetic mind seized upon this illustration to teach what the Redeemer would do to ransom men from the fate that would be theirs if there were no atonement." (The Promised Messiah, pp. 238-39)

[Vort]

Alice Cooper wants you to go to Hell. (He must like Michigan.)