Celestial Kingdom

[Ezequiel]

I also would like to add that, in the way I understand it, the reason why the faithfully endowed cannot become exalted without entering in the everlasting covenant of marriage, is simply because the only way to Godhood is by procreating spiritual children. At which case, if you do not have a eternal companion, it wouldn't happen. You cannot have children on your own.... no matter how enlightened and righteous. You need two to tango... :)

[MobyMule]

How come people make the quick leap from death to final judgement? There is a millenial reign in there for all those folks who have the issues to deal with such as marriage and so forth. That is the time all of that will be finalized. I think we will all go into the final judgement with a complete awareness of the why's we get what we get and I think we will be fine with it.

[Guest Alana]

Wondering if someone is leading a sinful life and marries civilly, but then later repents and is worthy of going to the temple but their spouse won't repent, will the repentant spouse be given a chance for exaltation after this life?

Because, uhh my friend was wondering, yeah.

[Moksha]

Three levels of the Celestial Kingdom, right?

Highest level = Exaltation

Middle Level = ??????????

Lowest level = Ministering Angels

Who goes to the middle level?

Perhaps monogamists. Perhaps middle management or research and development.

Celestial-Sun

Terrestrial-Moon

Telestial-Stars

Stars produce light and energy. Our sun is a medium-small star. The moon produces no light. Light from the moon is only a reflection. If more astronomy had been known among the early saints, I wonder if the ranking system would have been different?

:)

[Lorenzo]

Celestial Kingdom:

1st level: Baptism

2nd level: Endowed

3rd & Highest: Sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise

At least that is my understanding.

Well, I have been baptized, endowed, and sealed (by the Holy Spirit of Promise), so I'm not worried. Having said that, I admit that I have often thought there should be a fourth kingdom. I know there will be a lot of people in each kingdom. But I think there should be a kingdom for those who are baptized, endowed, and sealed, but for whatever reason do not want to receive all the blessings they have earned. I have one friend in particular who wants no more children. She has her reasons for this. They would rarely apply, but in her case they are reasonable. She accepts her baptism, endowment and sealing, but that is as far as she wants to go. She is a very nice person. She is faithful, obedient, and charitable. She is not against exaltation in itself, but does not want children. A fourth kingdom for people like her, would be really helpful. Between the 2nd and the 3rd, I think. She would have all the blessings, but not the multiplication of spirit children. Or maybe that kingdom could be the third, and the one we think of as the highest now can be made into the 4th kingdom.

[ferretrunner]

Thanks for the replies. No one ever told me that someone could be married/sealed after death. I figured it was one of those "have to's" in this life. Although, if we can baptize for the dead, why not seal?

GnatStrainer made a good point. Why should all women (and men) be expected to want children? I suppose in this case, if someone doesn't want kids, they give up the highest level- the consequence. But, could that mean someone who does want kids being forced into a position of having them anyway? Or are all of us expected to be the same in regards to wanting children and making good parents? Or will it matter as much in the next world? LOL. Maybe I'll get to play "auntie" to other people's kids???

As for being a ministering angel, the teachings about angels vary from denomination. Many Christian sects believe no human becomes an angel- angels are separate creations, with no free will. For example, the Catholic church teaches that people become saints when they die- and some are recognized as such in this world as well. From that perspective, I would loose my free will and become a servant. Angels are probably happy to be angels. I wouldn't want to give up my free will and "just" be a servant. Maybe I have the wrong attitude. I serve others happily- but I also enjoy people helping me periodically and being able to care for myself (put myself first) every once in awhile.

[Moksha]

Stars produce light and energy. Our sun is a medium-small star. The moon produces no light. Light from the moon is only a reflection. If more astronomy had been known among the early saints, I wonder if the ranking system would have been different?

:)

After a little checking, it seems that

Celestial-Sun

Terrestrial-Moon

Telestial-Stars

was assigned by Emanuel Swedenborg for the three levels of heaven. I know Swedenborg also divided up the Celestial Kingdom into three levels and he had the Angels in the lowest of the three. The passage from his book was in graphic file form, so I could not cut and paste it here. I was thinking that it could help with explanations also.

.

[bytebear]

I thought it was Paul.

[Maxel]

I have one friend in particular who wants no more children. She has her reasons for this. They would rarely apply, but in her case they are reasonable. She accepts her baptism, endowment and sealing, but that is as far as she wants to go. She is a very nice person. She is faithful, obedient, and charitable. She is not against exaltation in itself, but does not want children. A fourth kingdom for people like her, would be really helpful. Between the 2nd and the 3rd, I think. She would have all the blessings, but not the multiplication of spirit children. Or maybe that kingdom could be the third, and the one we think of as the highest now can be made into the 4th kingdom.

If she doesn't want to "do the work", so to speak, required for Godhood, she can't "reap the rewards".

If, after being wholly sanctified she still wants no children, she'll be as happy as she can wherever she's put- but she'll probably never attain the level of godhood that our Father enjoys. Perhaps that's the kind of people that populate the second level of the celestial kingdom.

Right now, I'm working on even being worthy to enter the Celestial kingdom at all... Long way to go before being endowed and sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise.

[Maxel]

Moksha, Joseph Smith also taught about the Sun/Moon/Stars analogy. I doubt he ever learned about Swedenborg's teachings.

If two men realize there's salt in the sea at different time periods, does that mean that the latter copied the former's conclusion?

[Moksha]

If two men realize there's salt in the sea at different time periods, does that mean that the latter copied the former's conclusion?

No, merely that there is a lot of salt in the sea.

:)

[Ezequiel]

... Why should all women (and men) be expected to want children? ...

Because attaining Godhood would mean endless glory. The Father is still progresses in His glory, because His righteous children glorify Him. By forfeting the divine ability to procreate spiritual children, then you are denying yourself the opportunity to grow in glory and thus passing up the opportunity to truly attain Godhood.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Ezequiel

[Vort]

Stars produce light and energy. Our sun is a medium-small star. The moon produces no light. Light from the moon is only a reflection.

True but irrelevant. The sun is bright. The moon is dimmer than the sun. The stars are much dimmer than the moon. That is the entire point of Paul's comparisons. The specifics of the stellar fusion cycle have nothing to do with it.

If more astronomy had been known among the early saints, I wonder if the ranking system would have been different?

Probably not. The comparison was based off of Paul's teachings, not from then-current ideas in astronomy.

In any case, the nature of such comparisons is that the parallel fails when looked at too closely. This is obvious. If I say that a man with a severe skin disorder has skin "like tree bark", you won't have to look too hard to find numerous discrepancies between tree bark and the man's skin. You will quickly conclude that the man's skin is not actually tree bark at all; rather, they are two completely different things. Congratulations! You have discovered the obvious.

Similarly. the future kingdoms of glory might be compared to the light of the sun, moon, and stars, but even a cursory examination of those symbols will turn up lots of discrepancies. That's why they are symbols of truth rather than the truth itself.

[Hemidakota]

Anyone who does not get exalted will be ministering angels. Highest level/exaltation is for those who are valiant that also are sealed in the temple, receiving the Patriarchal Priesthood and have it sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.

Those in the middle level would possibly be those who receive their endowments, but do not choose to be sealed for eternity, losing out on the fullness of God's program of godhood.

Those in the lowest level would be those who are baptized and are valiant in keeping their baptism covenants.

Ram is correct...thanks.

The only exception; no sealed members will enter the highest order without the consent of the Godhead - meaning Calling of Election. There is no guarantee if members who received the fullness of the Priesthood will inherit the highest order without the consent of the Holy Ghost or the Godhead telling them in person.

Those who are not called and sealed to the highest order for various reasons that GOD may know only, will inherit the second level. Advancement will come but at a latter time.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

How come people make the quick leap from death to final judgement? There is a millenial reign in there for all those folks who have the issues to deal with such as marriage and so forth. That is the time all of that will be finalized. I think we will all go into the final judgement with a complete awareness of the why's we get what we get and I think we will be fine with it.

The only way a person can 'jump the chain' [paraphrasing here] of those who are waiting the final judgment, are those who are already called in this mortality and sealed. They may have a calling in the post mortal realm and assigned a tasking by the Godhead.

There are already a few Saints who have met this qualification and will not have to wait for the final judgment to inherit their rewards - Abraham is one of them.

[Wants2Know]

What would happen if a single woman adopted a child?

[Hemidakota]

Well, I have been baptized, endowed, and sealed (by the Holy Spirit of Promise), so I'm not worried. Having said that, I admit that I have often thought there should be a fourth kingdom. I know there will be a lot of people in each kingdom. But I think there should be a kingdom for those who are baptized, endowed, and sealed, but for whatever reason do not want to receive all the blessings they have earned. I have one friend in particular who wants no more children. She has her reasons for this. They would rarely apply, but in her case they are reasonable. She accepts her baptism, endowment and sealing, but that is as far as she wants to go. She is a very nice person. She is faithful, obedient, and charitable. She is not against exaltation in itself, but does not want children. A fourth kingdom for people like her, would be really helpful. Between the 2nd and the 3rd, I think. She would have all the blessings, but not the multiplication of spirit children. Or maybe that kingdom could be the third, and the one we think of as the highest now can be made into the 4th kingdom.

Again, no one enters the highest order without the consent of the Godhead. This is a personal quest for those who already received the fullness of the priesthood. Though, it is a prerequisite to enter such but to know with surety is what Prophet Peter was stating in 2 Peter chapters 1. Unless you have received it in mortality from the Godhead personally, then you should seeked this out or you may have to wait after mortality to determine your fate.

Peter, Paul, and Joseph Smith taught this principle of seeking the divine answer.

Now, if one stands in the presence of GOD and was given an eternal crown with a white stone [what John witnessed], for what purpose was giving each member of the Church of the First-Born when they already reside in the presence of the FATHER? That is the mystery to the Saints of what is above the Celestial Kingdom.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

What would happen if a single woman adopted a child?

Was this child sealed to the single woman?

[Hemidakota]

After a little checking, it seems that

Celestial-Sun

Terrestrial-Moon

Telestial-Stars

was assigned by Emanuel Swedenborg for the three levels of heaven. I know Swedenborg also divided up the Celestial Kingdom into three levels and he had the Angels in the lowest of the three. The passage from his book was in graphic file form, so I could not cut and paste it here. I was thinking that it could help with explanations also.

.

Who is this man - Emanuel Swedenborg?

[Wants2Know]

Was this child sealed to the single woman?

I guess that's my question... could the child be sealed to her though she is not married?

[beefche]

A child cannot be sealed to a single parent in this life. I am not clear if the ordinance can be done after death--but I'm thinking not since children are sealed to parents after death. I have to wait until my father passes away before I can be sealed to my parents.

[pam]

Who is this man - Emanuel Swedenborg?

Emanuel Swedenborg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Lorenzo]

Correct...the only exception; no sealed members will enter the highest order without the consent of the Godhead - meaning Calling of Election. There is no guarantee if members who received the fullness of the Priesthood will inherit the highest order without the consent of the Holy Ghost or the Godhead telling them in person.

Those who are not called and sealed to the highest order for various reasons that GOD may know only, will inherit the second level. Advancement will come but at a latter time.

A number have had their calling and election made sure. Probably more than most people realize. You don't need to be an Apostle or Prophet, either. A number of regional representatives, Stake Presidents, and others have had their Calling and Election made sure. They don't boast about it. In fact, they are pretty quiet about it usually. But some of them will tell you if you ask them. Beyond that, the sealing by the holy spirit of promise is not just the temple sealing, but a personal sealing. Many have also received this, and are probably even less talkative about it than when their calling and election are made sure.

If she doesn't want to "do the work", so to speak, required for Godhood, she can't "reap the rewards".

That's exactly it. She does not wish to go through more child-bearing. Everything else is okay, though. She does see it as you do, more of a work - after all, it is called "labor" - than a blessing. If she has failed in nothing else, it is wrong to keep her out of the Kingdom of Heaven. If all her ducks are in a row, and from what I've seen of her, I would say they probably are, she is very faithful and consistent in her church work and studying and prayers, then she should be rewarded. Getting pregnant should not be the deciding factor who goes to the Celestial Kingdom and who not. If that is, then there might be some otherwise qualified men who shouldn't go, too. It has nothing to do with selfishness or avoidance of work, or shirking the principles of the gospel. It has to do with her personal feelings about having more babies. She says five is enough. If Heavenly Father wants her to have more babies, he can let her adopt them. She says she would have no problem being a sister wife and helping the others raise their children, however many millions there may be. She just doesn't want to go through that process any more. She loves children. She just feels that five is enough. "If my way to Exaltation is blocked because I don't want to bear more children, then why don't they let Satan back in if he agrees to get himself pregnant." She knows that's a little silly, but insists that it is "equitable."

All that has got me to thinking. When I have my world and wives and children, I wonder if there must always be three kingdoms of heaven, or can each God construct his heaven personally, so that some might have two kingdoms and others four. The kingdom "like stars" would contain the widest variety, but even that could be split up according to some standard, I suppose. It's fun to think about. But I know that we will understand it perfectly later, and then all those questions, and my friend's concern about not wanting more children, will all be answered. I tell her, "Have faith. Be patient. You will get an answer, and it will be one you can accept."

[Hemidakota]

[Late edit - sorry Beefche, I was not implying rudeness here but atonished] Unless you mortal father is not a member of the church, then yes. You will have to do his/her work for them prior to being sealed to them. It requires both parents for a sealing.

Now, the same goes for foster parents with children. It still requires both templed sealed parents to seal an adopted child. This will only happen after all exhausted means are met to find the living parents and require an approval.

For non-foster parents who legally adopted children, will not need natural parents approval but still require the normal paperwork approval from the First Presidency.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

A number have had their calling and election made sure. Probably more than most people realize. You don't need to be an Apostle or Prophet, either. A number of regional representatives, Stake Presidents, and others have had their Calling and Election made sure. They don't boast about it. In fact, they are pretty quiet about it usually. But some of them will tell you if you ask them. Beyond that, the sealing by the holy spirit of promise is not just the temple sealing, but a personal sealing. Many have also received this, and are probably even less talkative about it than when their calling and election are made sure.

I am glad the three forementioned were not admittedly quite about it. We would not know how this was accomplished. When speaking by the hands of the Spirit, there is no wrong in aiding others to reach the same pinnacle.

Let us be clear here, it is not just GAs or leaders, it is for all members of the church as a whole.