Thought v. Action

[ViolinGirl]

A friend and I were having a discussion today. He said that thinking about something sinful is as bad as actually doing it in God's eyes. For example, if I see an attractive man and have inappropriate thoughts about him, even though I didn't act on those thoughts, God still sees that as a sin.

What does everyone think?

[NeuroTypical]

We can't always control our thoughts. We usually can control our actions. Seems goofy for God to punish us for something we can't control...

[ViolinGirl]

That was my argument, but my friend insists otherwise. He believes that God won't accept him into heaven because of his sinful thoughts.

[jameslentz]

Jesus taught (Matt 5:28)

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart

Alma 12:14 says:

14 For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to chide us from his presence.

i remember reading once that brigham young said when asked how he lived such a good life he said that when the thought of the sin entered his mind he became so busy repenting for the thought he didn't have time to commit the sin.

I do believe that the hardest part of ourselves to gain control over is our thoughts, i know i struggle with it but each day is a new opportunity to have a clean mind and come closer to HF in thought, word and deed.

[Moksha]

A friend and I were having a discussion today. He said that thinking about something sinful is as bad as actually doing it in God's eyes. For example, if I see an attractive man and have inappropriate thoughts about him, even though I didn't act on those thoughts, God still sees that as a sin.

What does everyone think?

I think the sexual urge is ingrained into us as a survival mechanism for the species. To be without such thoughts would probably be indicative of some physical or psychological disorder or advanced old age. Look don't touch seems like a workable policy.

[beefche]

I'm not sure how much control we have over thoughts coming into our minds, but we do have control on how long they stay there. So, if a sinful thought comes into my mind, it's up to me to divert my mind to something else or I can allow the sinful thought to continue and progress.

[ryanh]

“According to the Desire of [Our] Hearts”

Elder Neal A. Maxwell Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

[MrsAri]

A friend and I were having a discussion today. He said that thinking about something sinful is as bad as actually doing it in God's eyes. For example, if I see an attractive man and have inappropriate thoughts about him, even though I didn't act on those thoughts, God still sees that as a sin.

What does everyone think?

If that's the case, we're all going to hell. lol

[bytor2112]

I'd much rather be guilty of the thought than the deed. The battle is fought in the theater of the mind, once you act upon the thought, you have lost that battle.

[Dr T]

If that's the case, we're all going to hell. lol

I think, due to sinfulness, we'd all be ready to get sent to hell but thank God for grace!

[bytor2112]

I think the sexual urge is ingrained into us as a survival mechanism for the species. To be without such thoughts would probably be indicative of some physical or psychological disorder or advanced old age. Look don't touch seems like a workable policy.

So my wife is nuts or just really old...cool, that explains a lot!!

[Misshalfway]

I don't know if we can control all of our thoughts. Some of them we most certainly can and we certainly can decide what to do with them. Maybe what I am trying to say is that perhaps no thought is "evil" or "good". Maybe that is why the road to hell is paved with good intensions.

I think what is important is what do when we do have a sinful thought or evil impulse. Do we act on them or dwell on them too long? I am not only talking about sex, but also anger or revenge or self reproach. I guess I think what we choose to think about what we think. This is where the beginning of sinfulness or righteousness begins.

I think God is looking to see what we do with everything that the natural man presents to us. Will we discipline it? Will we obey his commands so that our very desires and nature changes to something more refined?

If we get stuck on the random thought and decide that its just "who we are" or even worse that we are horribly sinful and in need of punishment, we are missing the goal of the agency exercize. I wonder if these random spontaneous thoughts are part of the test. I don't suppose we are responsible for that part of things.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Misshalfway

[MrsAri]

I think, due to sinfulness, we'd all be ready to get sent to hell but thank God for grace!

Who's grace? Just kidding! This is so true. And justice...and mercy. :)

[MrsAri]

So my wife is nuts or just really old...cool, that explains a lot!!

I resemble that remark... lolol

[Guest Alana]

You can't get pregnant from an sinful thought, but you can if you go out and have an affair. Different sins, although they are all sins, have different consequences. The repentance process will necessitate more suffering and sorrow for actions vs thoughts.

You can't be unclean at all to be in the presence of our Father, not even guilty of a sinful thought, but there is a difference in sins.

As far as being doomed because of your thoughts, that sounds like a very overwhelmingly sad thing. No one is perfect, in thought or action. During our lives, sometimes the important things aren't where we are in our progression, but what direction we are going. This seems to be especially true when habits (and boy do bad thoughts and the word habit go hand in hand) are the case.

[Traveler]

A friend and I were having a discussion today. He said that thinking about something sinful is as bad as actually doing it in God's eyes. For example, if I see an attractive man and have inappropriate thoughts about him, even though I didn't act on those thoughts, God still sees that as a sin.

What does everyone think?

Is there a possibility that there are thoughts within us that are not really ours? Could it be that some thoughts come, not from within us but from some other source?

I find the movie "A Beautiful Mind" interesting. I also believe that some of the best and worse thought I have encountered really were not mine to begin with.

I also find it interesting that some people get a thought and hurry to write it down so they will not forgit it. If thoughts were really ours - how could they be forgotten? and how could they be new to us?

The Traveler

[Misshalfway]

Is there a possibility that there are thoughts within us that are not really ours? Could it be that some thoughts come, not from within us but from some other source?

I find the movie "A Beautiful Mind" interesting. I also believe that some of the best and worse thought I have encountered really were not mine to begin with.

I also find it interesting that some people get a thought and hurry to write it down so they will not forgit it. If thoughts were really ours - how could they be forgotten? and how could they be new to us?

The Traveler

I am with you Traveler. I know I have felt feelings that didn't accurately reflect how I felt. We do have biological/chemical/hormonal/electrical processes in our bodies that do effect our feelings. And there is no doubt in my mind that temptations come in the form of thoughts and I am not just confining those sexual ones. I think Satan tries to trap us with all sorts of thoughts in all sorts of areas. If he can get us to believe a lie or a whole paradigm of lies, then he has done half his job. I think he plants thoughts that create interesting feelings such as becoming offended and then he fans the flames of these feelings.

I was just reading something from Elder Oaks and Elder Wickman concerning SSA and acting on feelings. I will post the quote below.

One of the great sophistries of our age, I think, is that merely because one has an inclination to do something, that therefore acting in accordance with that inclination is inevitable. That’s contrary to our very nature as the Lord has revealed to us. We do have the power to control our behavior.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Misshalfway

[HEthePrimate]

Well, I'd rather have somebody think about punching me in the nose than actually punch me in the nose!

Besides, it seems to me that thinking that thinking about a sin is just as bad as committing the sin would lead to more crimes being committed. I mean, if you're already guilty, then why not just do it?

Also, is thinking about doing a good deed just as good as actually doing a good deed? I think not. "But bishop, I thought about paying my tithing... you should therefore give me a temple recommend."

HEP

[Lorenzo]

Our Melchezidek Priesthood teacher told this. There was a missionary in the Southeastern United States when the MP teacher was there. He carried a little bottle of tabasco sauce with him. Every time he started to think about a girl or woman impurely, he applied a dose of tabasco to himself. By the end of his mission he had baptized more converts than anyone else in his mission area. He was proposed to by a number of the sisters there, but didn't marry any of them. He had a vision of his future wife, that she would be using tabasco, too. When he returned to his home ward, they gave him a tremendous welcome. As he bore his testimony, he saw in the front row a girl he recognized from his mission field. In her hand was a bottle of tabasco. They were married before a year had passed, and are still married to this day.

So there are ways to fight the improper thoughts. When you make the effort, you receive the blessing.

[bmy-]

Our Melchezidek Priesthood teacher told this. There was a missionary in the Southeastern United States when the MP teacher was there. He carried a little bottle of tabasco sauce with him. Every time he started to think about a girl or woman impurely, he applied a dose of tabasco to himself. By the end of his mission he had baptized more converts than anyone else in his mission area. He was proposed to by a number of the sisters there, but didn't marry any of them. He had a vision of his future wife, that she would be using tabasco, too. When he returned to his home ward, they gave him a tremendous welcome. As he bore his testimony, he saw in the front row a girl he recognized from his mission field. In her hand was a bottle of tabasco. They were married before a year had passed, and are still married to this day.

So there are ways to fight the improper thoughts. When you make the effort, you receive the blessing.

That's one of "those" stories, I think Nice lesson to the story.. but you hear stories like this so often and the details are always changed to suit the crowd. I bolded the important part of the lesson, though.

[Misshalfway]

Yeah.... I kinda feel that way about these stories as they are too simple and too nicely tied up at the end for real heart wrenching type struggles we often hear about.

Perhaps there is lesson too in that we must do all we can to help ourselves...to own our responsibilities and the good powers that God did give us. We do need to do all that we can do and I think there is a lot to be said for thinking outside the box and using creativity to solve problems and not giving up too soon when our faulty thought processes don't resolve quickly.

There is faith and hope and optimism in these type of actions. And there is no doubt that God meets us in our efforts to exercize faith and hope and love even when our efforts aren't always enough. I know that sometimes my offerings don't produce nice perfect endings like the story shared. I sometimes I resent the Ensign for this same reason, but this doesn't mean I don't see the process of the Lord and the help the Lord offers. I think most of the time the blessings happen in a more earthy sort of way.....less air brushed. :) I kinda wish we would share more of the realistically inclinded faith promoting experience. But maybe those stories are harder to tell because the lessons are less easily explained. One must gain the insight by going thru it.....

[Traveler]

There are some things about thoughts we should be aware of and careful about. I have come to understand that most thoughts come from other sources than ourselves. I would liken the obtaining of thoughts to obtaining a radio. There are things we can do to tune in stations, tune out stations, turn up the volumes, turn down the volumes and shut off certain ideas.

One example already offered for operating one’s personal thought radio was a bottle of Tabasco sauce. I would recommend hymns or memorized scriptures as another method. Sometimes there are long range things and short term things that can assist us with our thoughts. Some things I recommend is prayer – if someone is inundated with unpleasant thoughts prayer can be helpful. So can fasting.

Personally, I find certain music inspiring, reading of “good” books – including scripture. But one of the most powerful ways I have found to become inspired (receiving divine thoughts) is through meditation. I have also discovered that tempting thought are more likely during certain activities.

There are two things I am most certain – if you are lazy with your thoughts (no effort to be aware of thoughts and what they are doing) they will become worse and controlling – even to the point that you lose control. You must be in harmony with the thoughts that will sustain you. If you want worthy inspiring thoughts you must place yourself in a place where such thought are in harmony with you and what is going on around you.

For example church can assist you with your thoughts but if one is filled with thoughts of someone not dressed correctly for church, or why doesn’t someone take care of their child or other such things then you are being lazy and not proactive.

The Traveler

[Danite]

Attitude proceeds actions. Nobody does anything without thinking about it first. Every thing in your life is influenced by what you chose to think about. In other words what gets your attention may one day get you. Some thoughts are sins

[Justice]

I'm not sure how much control we have over thoughts coming into our minds, but we do have control on how long they stay there. So, if a sinful thought comes into my mind, it's up to me to divert my mind to something else or I can allow the sinful thought to continue and progress.

Exactly what I was going to say... near word for word.

[Snow]

A friend and I were having a discussion today. He said that thinking about something sinful is as bad as actually doing it in God's eyes. For example, if I see an attractive man and have inappropriate thoughts about him, even though I didn't act on those thoughts, God still sees that as a sin.

What does everyone think?

I think your friend is a nut.

Anyone who thinks that, say, thinking about killing someone is as bad as actually killing them lacks the ability to think straight.