Divorce Settlement Question -wedding rings

[baver3]

I am getting a divorce after seven and a half years of marriage.

Today in mediation my husband (soon to be ex) mentioned that he thinks the wedding rings should be included in the 'community property' to be divided equally.

what?????????

Everything Ive read says that the ring is and was a gift and shouldnt be included. The wife keeps her ring, the man keeps his. Any thoughts?

Also, is there any law that dictates what to do with them?

It is my opinion that his only intention in bringing them up is the money. I had three bands and each one is probably worth approximately 2 thousand and 2,500 dollars. He does not want me to be able to sell them or for me to have control over what to do with something so valuable.

Personally, I just think him asking for the rings back is tacky.

[JudoMinja]

I'm not really sure. I've heard it both ways. Where, as you are saying, it is a gift and is for the person given to decide what to do with it. And where it is considered a sign of the commitment, so when that commitment is broken, should be given back.

In that second case, if the ring is in someway connected to family (old heirloom, etc) then it goes to whomever it originally belonged to (sometimes that is the woman).

So, I guess it just depends on which way you look at it.

[prisonchaplain]

I know three lawyers who agree with the OP--the ring is a gift and need not be returned or considered as community property. is husband entitled to get wedding ring back in WA state - Avvo.com

BTW, the prisonchaplain also agrees that it's tacky to ask for the ring back. Then again, being tactful is seldom a high priority in such negotiations.

[Gwen]

i was told with engagements (i know that's different) the proper course of action is based on who called off the wedding. if she calls it off it is respectful to give the gift and symbol of the commitment back to him. if he calls it off she is free to keep the gift and do what she will with it.

using that it is clear it's a gift and would be hers to keep since you actually went through with the marriage. if one wanted to be really picky might could try to argue that some of it has to do with who asked for the divorce. in the end (not that it matters) i agree with those that say it's a gift and if each wants to keep the ring then they have that right.

[Wingnut]

I remember reading once that it depends on when the ring is given:

If it is given before the woman accepts a marriage proposal, it is considered a gift, and the woman could keep it.

If it is given after the woman accepts a proposal, it is given conditional upon that contract, and as such, that man could have claim on it again later.

In my case, I believe the ring was given after I said yes, but we married such a short time later that half of the cost of the ring came out of my funds anyway. :)

[Gwen]

wing, once the marriage takes place isn't the contract complete? could he still have claim in the case of a divorce? maybe just claim on the wedding ring but not the engagement?

[MisterT]

Why would you want to keep it? Certainly not for sentimental reasons. I imagine you're interested in the rings for their monetary value (I don't blame you - get what you can, within the realm of the law and what's just). Sell them and split the proceeds equally; that way you have to argue less and get things over more quickly. The last thing you want to do is drag this out over an extended period because you won't budge on this issue. Get your divorce done with and get on with your life. If this is what it costs to do that, you're getting off cheap.

FWIW my ex-wife kept her rings (not that they were worth much - we lived a minimalistic life) and I kept mine. Mine wasn't worth anything monetarily, but sentimentally it was without value. I had machined my ring from a control valve from a Nuclear Reactor (non-radioactive water loop).

[ryanh]

Also, is there any law that dictates what to do with them?

You are asking about specific guidance, but mixing in moral considerations ("tacky"). You ought to consider the two issues completely separately.

Whether or not there is any law is something that you would have to ask an attorney that is familiar with your state's specific laws. I doubt there are many states whose laws or administrative rules are so specific as to address individual assets such as rings. Generally, the laws indicate "equitable distribution of assets", but there is some latitude for the parties to negotiate as monetary worth is not the only value that may be placed on items.

Do you know whether or not you live in a community property state? That may impact the legal rights of both parties to any assets acquired before or after marriage.

[ryanh]

Why would you want to keep it? Certainly not for sentimental reasons. . . . . I kept mine. Mine wasn't worth anything monetarily, but sentimentally it was without value.

:confused:

[NeuroTypical]

Personally, I just think him asking for the rings back is tacky.

Sounds like you're doing the usual thing people do when they get a divorce - find yourself in the grips of the overpowering obsession to turn absolutely everything possible into a weapon against the other person.

Sorry you're in that place. You're certainly not alone there. It doesn't look like a fun place to be. I wish I had some advice on how to get out of that place, but I've never found any that matters, except "eventually, you'll wake up one day, and the mere existence of the day won't be just another thing that's his fault."

Until then, God bless. If there are kids involved, please do whatever you can to make the transition easy on them.

LM

[Just_A_Guy]

I know three lawyers who agree with the OP--the ring is a gift and need not be returned or considered as community property. is husband entitled to get wedding ring back in WA state - Avvo.com

And Washington--unlike Ohio--is a community property state. I think hubby would have a pretty hard time asserting a claim in a separate property state like Ohio.

I wonder how the mediator responded to this claim? The whole raison d'etre for mediators is to convince the parties to be realistic.

[mnn727]

2 people can agree to anything in a contract (which a disolution of a marraige is - a contract to end a marriage), people can even give up things they are entitled to, so tell him no and let a judge decide.

Is it tackey? I think so, but if he doesn't ask, he'd never get it (ie nothing ventured, nothing gained).

Edited April 7, 2010 by mnn727

[pam]

I don't know..to me that's getting really nit picky in dividing up property to include wedding rings.

[baver3]

Lets just say this person has racked up thousands and thousands of dollars behind my back in credit over the years. Now he is unwilling to support us financially (only gives us $150 for food every two weeks) and is unwilling to give adequate child support. I am finding myself in the spot of divorce where all those ugly things about a person surface. I dont like it and I have started to question myself. Some may call it survival mode, I dont really know.

Everything he did for me in our marriage came back to haunt me later and would make me feel bad for it. That means every gift or any act of assumed generosity he would rub in my face later on and tell me I didnt appreciate him or that I should have done it for myself in the first place. The fact that he wants to split the rings for financial reasons tells me that his gift of the rings in the first place was never genuine. It also tells me that he is scraping everything in the bottom of that barrel to get something out of me. He has sucked the life out of me for the past 5 or so years and now he is trying to suck any shred of anything I have ever received from him. Honestly, those rings were the ONLY gifts of consequence that he has ever given me. He is an incredibly selfish person.

So its not that I want to continue to wear the rings for sentimental reasons, I feel like if they are mine then I am allowed to do whatever I want with them. If that means I want to throw them in the trash then that is my perogative, no? However in my situation I feel like I will have no other choice then to sell them to try to pay off some of the debt that has accrued so that me and my three children can have a better life with less month to month debt.

[Guest mirancs8]

Today in mediation my husband (soon to be ex) mentioned that he thinks the wedding rings should be included in the 'community property' to be divided equally.

My ex is pulling the same stunt. It was a gift that I'm keeping AND will be selling to pay for all these legal costs!

[Bini]

My ex kept his ring and I kept mine because they were gifts. It wasn't even an issue, surprisingly..

[Guest Goose]

yeah, wedding rings are normally considered gifts.

My guess though is that if he asked for them then he is probably motivated by some sort of revenge, -but then again I'm only guessing.

[declanr]

It depends on your state law, but I do know that it can be considered a "conditional gift", meaning if you marry or stay married the gift remains valid, if not it is revokable and returnable. Also to keep in mind is the normal disproportion of a wifes ring cost and the mans, normally the wifes is more expensive, do you think it really fair that each person keep their own given the disparity in value?

Hope mediation went well.

best

Dec

[ADoyle90815]

I sold my wedding ring set, because I didn't want to keep it. It wasn't worth that much, but I didn't care as the important thing was that it was gone. What's unusual was that his ring was actually the more expensive one as it was yellow and white gold with some carving in it. Fortunately, even though my ex resisted my filing for divorce, he didn't care what happened to my wedding ring set. He eventually signed the divorce papers, so the divorce was relatively easy since we were married less than a year, and there were no children to complicate matters. As a result, I don't have to have anything to do with him, and even blocked him on Facebook when I first joined. I also blocked every known e-mail address of his.

Edited April 14, 2010 by ADoyle90815

[funkenheimer]

One thing I learned from my divorce is that there are very few rules that are set in stone. There are many guidelines to make thing go more smoothly, but nearly everything is negotiable. If an agreement can't be reached between the parties, then the court will decide.

As far as wedding rings, I would think that would be something the two of you would have to come to agreement on.

[candyprpl]

I think they were a gift and should stay with each of you.

My ex and I had our rings made by a very special friend -- no gems -- he liked gold and I liked silver so our rings were the same except mine had gold on the inside and silver on the outside and vice versa on his. Their was many symbols for our relationship made into the rings. When we got divorced our daughter asked if she could have them and we gave them to her. They mean more to her than they do us.

[FunkyTown]

As a counterpoint, I do know that when I ask the person I'm going to marry to marry me, I am using my Grandmother's wedding ring. It is worth a significant amount of money monetarily, but is extremely sentimental to me. If something went wrong and it was used as a weapon, I would be extremely upset.

Sounds like you're doing the usual thing people do when they get a divorce - find yourself in the grips of the overpowering obsession to turn absolutely everything possible into a weapon against the other person.

Sorry you're in that place. You're certainly not alone there. It doesn't look like a fun place to be. I wish I had some advice on how to get out of that place, but I've never found any that matters, except "eventually, you'll wake up one day, and the mere existence of the day won't be just another thing that's his fault."

Until then, God bless. If there are kids involved, please do whatever you can to make the transition easy on them.

LM

[Gwen]

i think family heirlooms (if they don't, should) fall into a different category.

[Bini]

As a counterpoint, I do know that when I ask the person I'm going to marry to marry me, I am using my Grandmother's wedding ring. It is worth a significant amount of money monetarily, but is extremely sentimental to me. If something went wrong and it was used as a weapon, I would be extremely upset.

Have a contract or some kind of written prenuptial regarding family heirlooms.

[baver3]

If it were from his mom or grandmother or something I would TOTALLY give it back.

But its not and he is just trying to get everything he can from me because he knows he is screwed.

He just sold their family farm for 1.1 million dollars and doesnt know that I know about it. He owns approx 25% of the farm and the sale would give him a substantial amount of cash that he is NOT WILLING TO PART WITH.

If I were him I would be less worried about the rings and MORE worried about how much of the farm proceeds he is going to have to give up.

This is how I see it: He gave me the rings before we married (conditional on marrying him). They were a gift. They are mine to do what I want with them.

He has received various gifts during our marriage from me such as at Christmas and such. I would never in a million years ask for a gift back. To him I say: GET A CLUE.