Mormon Church dress codes vs other church dress codes

[Guest gopecon]

The eternal principle at play here is reverence for deity in a place of worship - not slacks, white shirts, ties, and dresses. How we show that will change from culture to culture and era to era. There's nothing magical about a tie. In the islands the lava lava (a skirt like wrap) is worn to church, and that is fine in that culture. If I were to wear a colorful skirt it would be a distraction and therefore inappropriate. The lesson I was taught as a deacon was that we were to dress up and to behave in a way that did not detract from the spirit of the sacrament, or distract others from their attempts to focus their thoughts on the Savior. I believe that this should be the attitude of all reverent believers, not just priesthood holders who are officiating in the ordinances, but I would also hope that no one would take it on themselves to shame people who are not dressed as well as they think they should be.

[MarginOfError]

The eternal principle at play here is reverence for deity in a place of worship - not slacks, white shirts, ties, and dresses. How we show that will change from culture to culture and era to era. There's nothing magical about a tie. In the islands the lava lava (a skirt like wrap) is worn to church, and that is fine in that culture. If I were to wear a colorful skirt it would be a distraction and therefore inappropriate. The lesson I was taught as a deacon was that we were to dress up and to behave in a way that did not detract from the spirit of the sacrament, or distract others from their attempts to focus their thoughts on the Savior. I believe that this should be the attitude of all reverent believers, not just priesthood holders who are officiating in the ordinances, but I would also hope that no one would take it on themselves to shame people who are not dressed as well as they think they should be.

So then the next question--are we required to resist changes in cultural norms regarding what appropriate dress is, or is it acceptable to move with those trends?

Women wearing pants is a pretty good example. Women I work with wear (dress) pants all the time. It's considered appropriate for a professional environment. If they were to show up to meetings with our clients in jeans, our clients would consider that inappropriate, but they think nothing of seeing them in for formal pants.

Does (or should) that same level of tolerance extend to our Sunday meetings?

[Jennarator]

I think it is one of those things where some of us know and have the means to dress for church, in skirts for women and slacks for men.

The way I see it is that we shouldn't judge others because we don't know their circumstances. I think I am inbetween just get there not matter how you are dressed and you must be dressed a certian way. Ultimately it is between you and the Lord. He knows what your best is and as soon as you are taught to be in your "Sunday Best" then you should do so. I know of some people that were never told, others that don't care. I don't think it's my call to judge.

Examples:

A very close friend of mind is less active and yet she knows better, I have brought her to church a few times and reminded her to change when I went to pick her up. SHe didn't want to, I took her anyways. This is between her and the Lord, personallly I was just glad she came. However, I teach my children different and don't let them go dressed like that.

We also have some neighbor kids that were just baptized, parents not members, but they always try to dress their best. For them it is often a worn and or slightly dirty outfit that is too big or too small. I know that is the best they have. I would never say a word to them that made them feel any differnt than others at church.

[Guest gopecon]

Dravin - dress pants on a woman are not a problem for me. I'm okay with shifting fashions, just not for the sake of standing out or rebelling.

[Dravin]

Dravin - dress pants on a woman are not a problem for me. I'm okay with shifting fashions, just not for the sake of standing out or rebelling.

Did you mean MoE? If you did actually mean me, I'm afraid I'm confused. What were you saying the above in reference to?

[mnn727]

I think we tend to be a bit more pharisaical within the church than we would like to believe.

Yeah, in more than just dress.

Its getting harder for me to read the Gospels and 3rd Nephi and see what Christ taught compared to what I see in the Wards at times.

[NeuroTypical]

The positive thing for LM to say: My personal discipleship and desire to forward the work of the kingdom, presses me to will wear a white shirt and tie to church. At least until I hear something authoritative about how our church leaders would prefer something else. That said, I also do not judge anyone based on how they show up to church. I usually don't even notice.

A more condensed and slightly less-appropriate, but still true thing for LM to say: I hate ties but I'll wear them, and I don't care what you wear.

[lafrenieredianne1]

I guess I am from the old school but one of the reasons I joined the LDS Church was for the standards they have set.....including how we dress when we attend Church. The missionaries have set a fine example around the world by the white shirts and suits they wear....this sets them apart; what if they chose to change the standards and wear....say jogging clothes as they would be much more comfortable. How about all those who volunteer their time and efforts in clean-up wearing the yellow t-shirts....Mormon Helping Hands....they are setting an example of who we are as LDS, that these workers can be trusted and easily recognized. It shows respect for the work they are doing in sharing the Gospel. If these standards make us stand out as being different then I am all for it! The prophet and all those who serve with him have set these standards...we can choose to follow his counsel or go about doing what we want...we all have our agency and I am not here to judge anyone; thankfully the Savior will do this for us.

It's not about how expensively you can dress.......there are thrift stores where you can get clothing very cheaply. You can buy skirts or a dress if you don't have one; It's all about respect......how would we feel about our attire if the Savior came to our Church? It will never come down to what will keep us out of the Celestial Kingdom but I would put our "attitude" at the very top of the list!

It doesn't bother me if new female members come in a pair of slacks or even if a guy has long hair or even if someone smells of alcohol or tobacco....I would welcome them to sit beside me as only Jesus knows what is in their hearts......I'm referring to those who have been attending church for years.....they should know better. We as LDS are being very carefully watched by those who are looking to find answers in their lives and want something different than the run of the mill....wear what you want, do what you want, bring your cup of Tim Hortons if you want for this is happening to many churches and their numbers are falling, not increasing!

[mrmarklin]

I know for a fact that in the local Catholic churches just about anything goes that's not totally outrageous. By that I mean jeans for both men and women, even shorts (not too short) have been noted on hot days.

In general I'd say us Mormons are more formal, at least here in the US.

[sister_in_faith]

In a similar vein, if my wife and I were ever to visit a Muslim country, she would be expected to keep her hair and all skin covered and wear a burqa or other form-hiding covering. It does not matter that we personally think such things unnecessary, or even ridiculous. That is the expectation, and it is our duty to meet it.

I respectfully disagree that we should bend to fit into other's expectations. If I was visiting a church or country where it was expected for women to wear clothing that would not allow me to wear my garments I would politely refuse, and wear something that I was comfortable with. Conversely I believe it is immoral for women to be forced to wear burqas (I'm talking about the blue coverings with mesh for the woman to see out of). I would be okay with wearing a hijab (something that covers only the hair) out of respect, but putting on a burqa I would NOT do. I would not do it even if there was a possibilty that I could be punished. I think someone needs to stand up and help those women win some freedom, and seeing a woman wear only a hijab and get away with it may help. UGH!

I would have to be having a REALLY bad hair day to wear something like that...

[annewandering]

I respectfully disagree that we should bend to fit into other's expectations. If I was visiting a church or country where it was expected for women to wear clothing that would not allow me to wear my garments I would politely refuse, and wear something that I was comfortable with. Conversely I believe it is immoral for women to be forced to wear burqas (I'm talking about the blue coverings with mesh for the woman to see out of). I would be okay with wearing a hijab (something that covers only the hair) out of respect, but putting on a burqa I would NOT do. I would not do it even if there was a possibilty that I could be punished. I think someone needs to stand up and help those women win some freedom, and seeing a woman wear only a hijab and get away with it may help. UGH!

I would have to be having a REALLY bad hair day to wear something like that...

I am going to second this. I will be respectful of peoples beliefs but I will not be treated as a second class person. People are trying to help women in barqa wearing countries to have civil rights not go there and follow those same restrictive traditions. There are some lines you just can not cross. Vort did you ask your wifes opinion on if she would be willing to wear the barqa? Sorry I am not spelling it right. My mind blocks horrors for me. :)

[Suzie]

I love to dress up so it has never been an issue for me. Having said that, you gotta love Hugh Nibley, one of my favorite quotes of him is on my signature.

[pam]

And that's probably why Hugh Nibley was always considered to be so controversial. :)

[annewandering]

I think I like him.

[pam]

I think I like him.

You rebel you.

[pam]

I love to dress up so it has never been an issue for me. Having said that, you gotta love Hugh Nibley, one of my favorite quotes of him is on my signature.

What is it Suzie? You have a beard or something you refuse to shave?

[annewandering]

lol. thats me for sure.

[Suzie]

What is it Suzie? You have a beard or something you refuse to shave?

You now KNOW my secret!!!

Well, you know I was referring to the "insistence on proper dress and grooming".

[john doe]

No one in the old testament wore a white shirt and tie to church. Nor did anyone in the new testament, or the Book of Mormon.

-RM

Just curious, since you seem to know so much about the dress in those times, how many people during those days wore a white shirt and tie anywhere? Your argument smells like a strawman, because it seems to me that white shirts and ties were not the normal attire for, well, just about anyone of the period.

Here's my real question: Was it customary for Jews during Old Testament times to wear their most presentable clothing before God when they entered the temple or synagogue? Why, or why not?

[ADoyle90815]

There are other Christian churches that teach modesty to the point where women and girls wear skirts or dresses all the time, and not just at church. Those churches make the LDS church seem more relaxed since Mormon women can wear shorts and pants outside of the chapel if they want to. The only thing the LDS church really requires is that if someone has been to the temple, their garments must be covered.

[Vort]

I respectfully disagree that we should bend to fit into other's expectations.

Yet this is what we do all the time, every waking minute of the day. It is practically the definition of civilization, and definitely the definition of society.

If I was visiting a church or country where it was expected for women to wear clothing that would not allow me to wear my garments I would politely refuse, and wear something that I was comfortable with.

But this is a strawman argument. Can you provide me even one example of a modern society where a woman is forced to dress immodestly? I believe no such society exists. If one does, it is so rare and unusual as to be ignorable.

Conversely I believe it is immoral for women to be forced to wear burqas (I'm talking about the blue coverings with mesh for the woman to see out of). I would be okay with wearing a hijab (something that covers only the hair) out of respect, but putting on a burqa I would NOT do.

There are those who see clothing, any clothing, as a sign of subjugation. (I know there are, because I have spoken with them.) If one of these refused to be subjected any more to such an outrageous and stupid custom, and thus stripped naked, in public, in front of your children, would you courageously defend his (or her) actions and champion the brave cause?

I would not do it even if there was a possibilty that I could be punished.

The prophet Joseph Smith disagreed with you.

I will be respectful of peoples beliefs but I will not be treated as a second class person.

Refusing to observe modesty in the way law and culture demand is not being respectful of other people's beliefs.

Vort did you ask your wifes opinion on if she would be willing to wear the barqa?

I just asked her. Here is a near-verbatim transcript:

VORT: If we were to go visit Saudi Arabia, would you wear a burqa, refuse to wear a burqa, or refuse to go to Saudi Arabia altogether?

SISTER VORT: My first choice would be to refuse to go, because I would be afraid to go to Saudi Arabia. If we went, I would wear a burqa because I would be afraid of being arrested.

VORT: Suppose we visited a part of Saudi Arabia where the morality police or whatever they're called would not arrest you for dressing like a westerner, and you would not be harassed. However, all the Saudis who saw you, male and female, would be offended at your lack of wearing a burqa. What would you do then?

SISTER VORT: Hmmm. Well...if I knew I was not going to be arrested or attacked by not wearing a burqa...I would probably wear a burqa anyway. I don't want to offend them. It's their country, not mine. When I go visit a foreign country, I don't want to stand out and have everyone know I'm a foreigner. I want to experience their culture, and in Saudi Arabia, that IS their culture. So I would probably wear a burqa anyway.

What a woman. Is it any wonder I married her? Anyway, there's your answer.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Vort

[annewandering]

She is a perfect mate for you Vort. :) I like her first choice of not going at all. :)

I still would not wear it. The more I think about it the more I realize I do not respect them for how they treat women so frankly I dont care how they feel about how I dress.

[Vort]

I still would not wear it. The more I think about it the more I realize I do not respect them for how they treat women so frankly I dont care how they feel about how I dress.

It is not a matter about whether you respect them personally. It is a matter of respecting the law and culture when you're in their land.

In any case, refusing to respect an otherwise decent man because he is the product of his culture does not make much sense to me. By such rules, no man or woman on earth is respectable, present company most definitely included.

[annewandering]

It is not a matter about whether you respect them personally. It is a matter of respecting the law and culture when you're in their land.

In any case, refusing to respect an otherwise decent man because he is the product of his culture does not make much sense to me. By such rules, no man or woman on earth is respectable, present company most definitely included.

And I respect neither. Good thing I am not going there isnt it. ^^ I dont think any man is decent who treats women in such ways.

[sister_in_faith]

"Traditional Zulu Women Attire -

The women dress depends on whether they are single, engaged or married.

Unmarried Woman who are avaiable are proud of displaying their figure/body. They wear a short skirt made of grass or beaded cotton strings and puts on a lot of creative beads. Clothing for Zulu girls is mainly made of beadwork and is usually revealing."

This description was accompanied by a picture, (which I won't post, or provide a link to for obvious reasons, but I'm sure you could find it on your own) of four women with their breasts fully exposed, wearing only small coverings for the pubic area, and large necklaces. Would sister vort wear only a small covering for her private area, and no top with her breasts exposed, if she were unmarried and visiting a traditional village in Africa just to 'fit in'? Would Joseph Smith want her to?

IF Joseph Smith wants ME to wear a burqa, then I'm in the wrong church. If I thought that this practice was something expected from me, I would quit the church, and do everything I could to bring as many sisters as I could with me.

If the KKK held a rally in my neighborhood and asked me to wear one of those stupid looking white pointy hats to be 'respectful' of their beliefs, I would refuse, because I have a moral issue with their beliefs and I don't support them. I believe that there are many instances where we have a MORAL OBLIGATION to stand up for what we believe in. This could include refusing to participate in practices like wearing a burqa. Vort I have my own moral compass. I would not champion the cause of stripping naked in front of children. That is dumb.