Elementary School Shooting

[annewandering]

Has anyone heard what stopped the shooter? I can't find mention of it anywhere. This is the worst event of it's kind in our lifetimes, but usually when there's a mass shooting, you can at least find news sources speculating and guessing about what stopped the shooter. Did the police stop him? Did he end his own life? Why aren't we hearing something?

All I know is police did not shoot him. Some have thought he suicided.

[annewandering]

I do however stick by revoking a license (just an example) from someone who leaves their loaded sig in a sock drawer.

Do you recommend the cops come into your house and check your sock drawer every once in awhile? Or they become psychic? If their kids shoots themself then is it time to revoke their license?

[annewandering]

sane

/sān/

Adjective

(of a person) Of sound mind; not mad or mentally ill: "hard work kept me sane".

(of an undertaking or manner) Reasonable; sensible.

Synonyms

sensible - reasonable - rational - sound

This is the definition I use. Do others use a different one? Well one does. The law defines it this way: insanity legal definition of insanity. insanity synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary. insanity n. 1) mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior. Insanity is distinguished from low intelligence or mental deficiency due to age or injury. If a complaint is made to law enforcement, to the district attorney, or to medical personnel that a person is evidencing psychotic behavior, he/she may be confined to a medical facility long enough (typically 72 hours) to be examined by psychiatrists who submit written reports to the local superior/county/district court. A hearing is then held before a judge, with the person in question entitled to legal representation, to determine if she/he should be placed in an institution or special facility. The person may request a trial to determine sanity. The original hearings are often routine with the psychiatric findings accepted by the judge. In criminal cases, a plea of "not guilty by reason of insanity," will require a trial on the issue of the defendant's insanity (or sanity) at the time the crime was committed. In these cases the defendant usually claims "temporary insanity" (crazy then, but okay now). The traditional test of insanity in criminal cases is whether the accused knew "the difference between right and wrong," following the "M'Naughten Rule" from 19th Century England. Most states require more sophisticated tests based on psychiatric and/or psychological testimony evaluated by a jury of laypersons or a judge without psychiatric training. 4) a claim by a criminal defendant of his insanity at the time of trial requires a separate hearing to determine if a defendant is sufficiently sane to understand the nature of a trial and participate in his/her own defense. If found to be insane, the defendant will be ordered to a mental facility, and the trial held only if sanity returns. 5) sex offenders may be found to be sane for all purposes except the compulsive dangerous and/or anti-social behavior. They are usually sentenced to special facilities for sex offenders, supposedly with counseling available. However, there are often maximum terms related to the type of crime, so that parole and release may occur with no proof of cure of the compulsive desire to commit sex crimes. (See: M'Naughten Rule, temporary insanity)

Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.

[jerome1232]

I left a lot unsaid, what I meant is if a licensed owner is found to be neglient then they should have their license revoked. If that's after their child shoots themselves than that's the way it is. No I don't think licenesed owners should have their houses regularly searched or that should be tightly enforced.

[mirkwood]

Huh. And I'm not a part of it.

Will wonders never cease?

I don't know...you did post a gross "tongue" picture in another thread.

[NeuroTypical]

what I meant is if a licensed owner is found to be neglient then they should have their license revoked. If that's after their child shoots themselves than that's the way it is. No I don't think licenesed owners should have their houses regularly searched or that should be tightly enforced.

Quick question: Are you aware that only a tiny minority of locations in the U.S. require a license to own a handgun? Pretty much everywhere else, it's legal to own a firearm without a licence. 2nd Amendment and all that...

[Vort]

I don't know...you did post a gross "tongue" picture in another thread.

That's different. That was KISS and Make-up. I was just responding to the thread.

[NoxNullaEgetDeumPerfectum]

I think its okay to call this guy evil or heartless. He killed five year olds...

Many of the worlds mass murderes in histroy had mental problems. Does that make what they did reasonable because of the unstable state of their mind? They premeditated and executed their ideas.

This man at this elementary school sounds like he premediated this tagic event too. Its never acceptable to hurt others or take anothers life under any circumsatances in cold blood.

I can't say I feel sorry for the killer. Twenty plus dead, more than half 5-10 year olds.

[mirkwood]

Article I just read said he shot himself.

[jerome1232]

Quick question: Are you aware that only a tiny minority of locations in the U.S. require a license to own a handgun? Pretty much everywhere else, it's legal to own a firearm without a licence. 2nd Amendment and all that...

You know I do live in California, they don't believe in that section here.

You are of course correct, I just had carry / concealed in my head. I think it's time to crawl back into my lurker cave before I do more harm.

[MarginOfError]

Could you explain why you think that? I mean, I know a lady who used to work at the conceal carry permit desk here in Colorado. We're a 'shall issue' state. She spent 8 hours a day serving average citizen after average citizen. Some fun stories - one time a group of nuns got their permits. Some scary looking extreme-hairstile-and-piercings people. Absolutely none of them ever went on to commit any violent felonies. And as a demographic group, they had lower rates of any sort of trouble with the law than non-permit holders.

On what data do you base your belief, that average citizens don't have what it takes to carry concealed?

My minimum standard would be something along the lines of the Boy Scout shooting sports merit badges. It isn't a high bar, but at least it would require a little engagement before issuing the permit.

I think your sample of people currently motivated enough to apply for a license is probably not representative of the population. When I read your previous statements, for some reason I was envisioning some kind of public campaign encouraging citizens to go get a gun so that they could potentially end a threat like this themselves. That thought is a little terrifying to me. (but to be fair, reading back on yours posts, what I envisioned seems out of proportion to what you said, for which I owe you an apology....sorry).

[Wingnut]

My minimum standard would be something along the lines of the Boy Scout shooting sports merit badges. It isn't a high bar, but at least it would require a little engagement before issuing the permit.

I think your sample of people currently motivated enough to apply for a license is probably not representative of the population. When I read your previous statements, for some reason I was envisioning some kind of public campaign encouraging citizens to go get a gun so that they could potentially end a threat like this themselves. That thought is a little terrifying to me. (but to be fair, reading back on yours posts, what I envisioned seems out of proportion to what you said, for which I owe you an apology....sorry).

A friend of mine in AZ posted this yesterday. It is a photo that she took herself, not just a "floating around the Internet" photo. Her caption on it was, "Cabelas is PACKED with people wanting to buy guns."

[Wingnut]

After the mall shooting earlier this week in OR, I had one friend talking on Facebook about "if one person in that mall was carrying concealed, this would have had a very different outcome." I pointed out to her that it's possible that someone(s) did, but chose instead to help people escape, rather than creating more mayhem. This morning I woke up to this post, from another friend:

There should be two teachers in every part of a school, plus the principal, who are allowed to open carry. They should understand that in addition to teaching, their responsibility is to keep everyone in their part of the school safe. If we had open carry this monster wouldn't have hurt so many children, the murderer in Oregon would have been down in a heartbeat, Columbine would not have been as extensive, and the off duty officer at Trolly Square never would have been berated for saving lives.

[NeuroTypical]

I don't know what the right answer is.

I do know Israel has a record of violent crime in schools that is almost nonexistant. This is a picture of an Israeli schoolteacher with her class:

[mirkwood]

A friend of mine in AZ posted this yesterday. It is a photo that she took herself, not just a "floating around the Internet" photo. Her caption on it was, "Cabelas is PACKED with people wanting to buy guns."

I laughed because Cabela's is ALWAYS packed with people who want to buy guns.

[pam]

I would have to laugh too. I've been to Cabelas quite a few times and have gone to look at guns and there are always lots of people there in that section.

I went to Scheels last night and there were also several people looking at guns.

[mirkwood]

According to data compiled by Grant Duwe of the Minnesota Department of Corrections, guns killed an average of 4.92 victims per mass murder in the United States during the 20th century, just edging out knives, blunt objects, and bare hands, which killed 4.52 people per incident. Fire killed 6.82 people per mass murder, while explosives far outpaced the other options at 20.82. Of the 25 deadliest mass murders in the 20th century, only 52 percent involved guns.

The U.S. mass murder rate does not seem to rise or fall with the availability of automatic weapons. It reached its highest level in 1929, when fully automatic firearms were expensive and mostly limited to soldiers and organized criminals. The rate dipped in the mid-1930s, staying relatively low before surging again in the 1970s through 1990s. Some criminologists attribute the late-century spike to the potential for instant notoriety: Beginning with Charles Whitman’s1966 shooting spree from atop a University of Texas tower, mass murderers became household names.

Aurora Shooting: How did people commit mass murder before automatic weapons? - Slate Magazine

[Guest]

I don't know that Morgan Freeman actually said this, but it's going around Facebook and I think there's something to it:

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed

people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

[pam]

According to Snopes regarding Morgan Freeman:

snopes.com: Shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary SChool in Newtown, Connecticut

[skippy740]

From feelings of sorrow... to rage:

Westboro Baptist Church to protest in Newtown when Obama visits on Sunday - National Conservative | Examiner.com

[pam]

Are you freaking kidding me?

[NeuroTypical]

If I were the judicial system in that area, I'd take them all into protective custody until the funeral was over. Emotions are running so high, their presence is enough to incite violence.

[norah63]

You never hear of someone breaking into a prison or jail and shooting anyone.

At least that much protection should be for the innocent children in our society.

[pam]

You never hear of someone breaking into a prison or jail and shooting anyone.

At least that much protection should be for the innocent children in our society.

While I can appreciate your sentiment, there is not a school district in existence that could afford the same security that is required in a prison or jail environment. Most districts that I know of have a hard enough time coming up with money just to pay their teachers.

[Just_A_Guy]

From feelings of sorrow... to rage:

Westboro Baptist Church to protest in Newtown when Obama visits on Sunday - National Conservative | Examiner.com

Trolls.

There, I said it. I may need to go ban myself now.