What do you think of a working man who tells his struggling stay-at-home wife the following?

[Backroads]

Husband and I both work and share household duties. Unfortunately, my household duties are cleaning and laundry and those don't always happen. We tried mixing it up a bit... but it's really hard when both of us work!

I do think the majority of those are fair statements (the exceptions have been mentioned).

Our long-term goal is that I will be one day a SAHM (hopefully within a year) and I plan on keeping a fairly clean and organized house.

However, while I do enjoy cleaning, I am, shall we say, right-brained. Also, while I did not grow up in a gross hoarders home by any stretch of the term, it wasn't the super-tidy household either. While I'm certainly capable of keeping thinks looking pretty good, I really don't know how to have a super-tidy, super-organized home (may Pinterest help me there).

While I think a lot of the original post probably requires just effort, further training or help may be in certain cases required.

[Wingnut]

What if the issue she's struggling with is that she's lazy? Serious question.

I still think the general sentiments are justified, but the wording and delivery need work. I'm not always lazy, but lately (last couple of months) I've been particularly lazy. I've also been in a fairly heavy depression (for me). I've always had trouble with self-motivation, but lately it's as if I don't even know what the word "motivate" means. I hate that I am the way I am, but I have a hard time getting myself to start doing something about it. When my husband says something, it kills me, because I hate to let him down. But I also appreciate his care to be gentle with my feelings while still addressing problems that need to be changed.

I wonder how she'd respond to:

"I'm feeling like maybe you aren't happy with our current arrangement of me working and you keeping the house. Do you think you might enjoy swapping roles for a year?"

My husband and I have often discussed this arrangement. I love my daughters, but I have a hard time finding fulfillment in something that I can't quantify. If I could make enough money to support our family on my own, we'd happily switch roles. He would be a fantastic stay-at-home-dad, and he'd be a much better housekeeper than I am now. But our arrangement would have to include me still cooking, because I really enjoy it.

[viannqueen3]

(SAHM of three kids under the age of 5 speaking, former career lady)

My thoughts are that it depends. I actually told my husband that I wanted to go work for the next two days and he could stay home with the kids. The children about did me in yesterday. Windseeker's ecard is SO true. It's just impossible to keep all the balls up in the air. If I make a great dinner, the kids have trashed the house. If the house is clean, we are picking up pizza because I have no energy left to make dinner. Yesterday while I was cleaning the house and dealing with a baby that was screaming every 20 minutes the kids went outside and covered themselves in mud and dumped a 3 gallon container of fertilizer all over the front driveway and neighbors sidewalk. So yes the inside got cleaned but dinner didn't get made and the kids trashed the front yard.

I'm kind of a neat freak so I can only handle so much clutter or dirty laundry before I start to go crazy. I'd say my house is usually pretty clean but I honestly spend at least 2-3 hours every day cleaning and doing laundry. I can totally understand how a husband can get frustrated with constantly coming home to a disorganized home. It's one thing to have clutter around caused by the kids but I also think it's part of the job to have laundry kept up, basic housekeeping done on a routine basis. My husband is terrible about helping out with housework. But he puts in long days at work and will also come home and play with the kids for an hour or two. I'm able to look past his lack of housekeeping skills because he's happy to help out with the kids and make dinner occasionally.

I usually sleep in and feel absolutely no guilt over it. That said, I'm also the primary parent to get up with our newborn in the middle of the night. I'm usually up 3-4 times a night with him or my other son. I hold no guilt.

If there are multiple young children in the household I think the husband just needs to suck it up and help out with the household cleaning when he gets home. If that's not the case then I think a lot of his frustrations are justified.

[prisonchaplain]

What if the issue she's struggling with is that she's lazy? Serious question.

While there are folk who are just flat-out lazy, my guess is still that this person's aptitudes are far from the realm of cleaning and organization. If I were a stay-at-home dad I'm sure many of those accusations could be thrown my way. Further, if I didn't realize what my talents were, I'd probably admit to being incredibly lazy. She may need to find out what her talents are, and hopefully find a job that uses those. If one is poor at housecleaning and organization, then staying at home has got to be incredibly frustrating--especially if sacrifices are being made, and you believe this is what your supposed to do.

[Jennarator]

Perhaps some stay at home moms are lazy. I feel most the "struggle" are overwhelmed and lack organization skills. Some have never been taught how to deep clean. Some have never had the perfect mom to teach them.....some might be depressed. I really doubt any of them want a messy house. I know when I have a day off with the baby (like today) it really hard to get anything done. They really need constant supervision.

[Gwen]

I had a lot to say. And then I deleted it all. I'll leave it with this.....

I think a man who makes such statements (justified or not) doesn't want to be married.

[Faith_Grace]

Almost every statement could be handled with humility by the wife, if she's humble enough and willing to really communicate. Without the wife's humility and meekness to take them in, nothing will change by these statements, they will just go on in the circle and find no way out.

But the last statement is just a hard blow. Why can't the husband just leaves his sweet mommy alone, why why why??

As a wife, I'd hate to hear how great my mother in law is in the area that I'm seen as a total failure by my husband.

As a mom, I'd never want to be mentioned in a fight between my son and his wife! (though my son is just 6 months old, I wish he'd never get me involved in his relationship with his wife. I gotta pray for that.haha). I will try to stay as far as possible.

[dahlia]

I know the tired moms don't want to hear this - but have you considered making dinner early in the day before things fall apart? That way you can just heat it up at night, when you have less energy? I do this all the time, or, make the complicated stuff early (such as an involved sauce for pasta) and then just put in the pasta later. Salad comes in a bag, shake it into the salad bowls. How hard can it be? And really, the ward moms confess that they just use pasta sauce from the jar, with no doctoring. Please. And they call themselves mothers? : )

My mother remarried when I was about 11. I have 3 half sisters, 11 - 16 years younger than I. When my mother was pregnant (which seemed like all the time back then), she couldn't stand the smells in the grocery store or cooking smells, so I did the shopping and I made a lot of dinners. My full sister, only 17 months younger, didn't do anything, it all fell on me. If an idiot kid can do this, I don't see the problem doing it as an adult.

As for toys all over, the kids get a designated space or they play with one toy at a time and put the other toy away before getting a new one. Discipline and organization. I don't understand the issue - the parent says no mess in the public areas and that's it. Take your stuff to your room.

I get where a sick kid can toss all the plans for the day out of the window. Or you having cramps or a migraine. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the every day stuff of being a housewife (I've done that, too) and keeping control of your domain.

[Guest]

I don't argue that it's possible to get a lot done. Some days it's possible to get everything done. But I happen to know that for me, with 5 kids 10 and under and 2 of them being toddlers, that I can't get everything done every day and still have the mental and emotional energy to nurture my husband and children in the way that they need, take care of my physical health, and prepare for my church callings. It's the phase of life we're in. It's getting better, but it's how it is right now. I've gotten an enormous amount of organizing/throwing out/cleaning done this week; more than I've been able to since I had to spend half my pregnancy on bedrest. My family gets fed every night and they have clean clothes and beds to sleep in. But if you came over right now, you'd see toys and coloring books on the floor, towels that need folded, and half a sink of dishes. Not to mention the loads of laundry that haven't been done yet. But you know what? I'm taking a mental health day today so that I can be a good mom and wife. I'll catch up tomorrow. If you don't like that, don't come over. :)

Edited February 28, 2013 by Eowyn
change a can to a can't. . . important detail!

[Bini]

I think your approach in how you address sensitive topics is what helps propel change. And, finding the root of what seems to repeat or continue certain unproductive behaviours, is vital. I have little sympathy for laziness. I understand that laziness can be a byproduct of a multiple of things. It could be from mental health issues or dealing with more kids than you're able to cope with. While these are legitimate reasons for lacking the drive to do this or that, laziness shouldn't be ignored but a reasonable solution should be drawn up. Easier said than done, of course.

My husband works his tail end off everyday at work and for long extended hours, sometimes on the weekend, too. He is also a big help with the baby when he gets home, despite, being physically and mentally drained from work projects. Our roles are very clear cut. He brings home the bacon, and I stay home doing the mama thing and I keep up the house. Since having a baby, our house isn't always tidy, in fact there's probably never a moment anymore where our living room floor is completely spotless BUT I do take time to wash dishes and run laundry. I think slacking periodically for a day or so is normal, however, slacking for an entire week or month is not acceptable in my opinion. It's really about figuring out a balance that works for your family. One routine might work pre-baby and not well post-baby. Another routine might have worked with two kids but fails now with five kids. You got to make adjustments, and you have to be willing to make those adjustments. Also, patience, patience, patience with each other!

[MorningStar]

This is tricky without knowing the reasons behind everything. If a woman is truly lazy, I could see why the husband might explode and say something in an untactful way, but if his wife is sick, pregnant, nursing, sleep deprived, etc., he has to expect that he will at times have to pitch in a lot more or maybe they can do some things to simplify their lives and lighten the load.

Stay at Home Mom does not always mean she stays at home. If she's running to the doctor, taking a crabby toddler to the park, grocery shopping, helping at the school, etc., things can pile up.

For a husband to say he brings home the money and she does the rest is pretty lame because that still leaves all of the hours after work and the weekend, holidays, etc. I think during the hours they are both home, they should both be responsible for the messes that continue to be created.

Years ago when our second son had thrush for 3 months, I got about 2 hours of sleep every night. He also had acid reflux, cried most of the day, spat-up all day, and wanted to nurse every hour for a while. I felt like a zombie and hardly had a moment to go to the bathroom or eat anything. I did continue to wash the clothes, but there was a giant pile of clean laundry. I also had a 2-year-old to entertain and my baby would only take cat naps.

My husband came home one day and asked innocently, "So ...... What did you do today?"

I glared at him, "At 4am, I fed the baby! Then he barfed and I changed both of our clothes, I changed his diaper, at 5am I fed the baby, at 6am I fed the baby, at 7am I fed the baby, at 8am, I FED THE BABY, at 9am, I fed the baby ......." and so on. Oh yes, I had to wash myself after every feeding and rub some medicine in his mouth and boil everything that went into his mouth, then he developed bronchiliolitis and I had to give him his inhaler 4 times a day. Every feeding was followed by huge amounts of spit-up all over me and him. It was a nightmare. My sister used to come over and look at me like, "What's wrong with you?" Then she had her first child and said, "I had no idea how hard it is!"

Mr. MorningStar never asked that question again. I told him, "When you come home, if everyone is alive, be amazed!" To add to the fun, when I'm sleep deprived, I have a colitis flare-up. I have had to abandon full carts of groceries to run home and be sick. I had also sat on the couch vomiting while nursing a baby. Sadly, I was not very productive with young children.

I know some women become passive aggressive about housework because there's something they're unhappy about - they feel unappreciated, he's playing video games all the time,etc. One of my friends was surprised to learn that my husband folds his own laundry. She said, "He does?" "Yeah." "My husband hasn't folded his laundry our entire marriage."

A woman might not do her husband's laundry too because he's throwing it on the floor. It feels a bit demeaning to pick a person's clothes off of the floor when there is a laundry basket right there. On the other hand, it must be really annoying to work all day and come home to a woman in jammies.

If it truly is an issue of laziness, I think the best way to approach it is, "I'm feeling overwhelmed over the state of our house. I work all day and it's unrealistic to expect me to do everything that needs to be done after work. I know it's not fun to do, but it causes stress in our family when there is so much disorder." Then see what she has to say after that.

Edited February 28, 2013 by MorningStar

[Dravin]

Mr. MorningStar never asked that question again.

If I asked my wife such a question, genuine innocent interest in what she did that day because I wasn't there to experience it with her, and I got that kind of response I'd be hurt. Though maybe I'm misreading the tone of the question and/or the response.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Dravin

[Maureen]

But what are they being taught - that it's OK to live in a mess? That you can impose your mess on all the other people in the house? What happens when the kids go to camp or college? I've seen some nasty college dorm rooms. You don't want to be known as that kid...

I don't know if its possible to judge a person's inclination to clean based on what their mother did. My mother kept a very clean house but I'm not following in her footsteps; and I know others who are just the opposite; having a messy mother but they are organized and clean.

M.

[MorningStar]

If I asked my wife such a question, genuine innocent interest in what she did that day because I wasn't there to experience it with her, and I got that kind of response I'd be hurt. Though maybe I'm misreading the tone of the question and/or the response.

Well, maybe innocent wasn't the correct word. It was his most tactful way of asking, "Why the heck does the house look like this?" He first glanced at the giant pile of laundry and dishes. He worked so much and slept through the baby waking up, he didn't really comprehend how nightmarish things were. He worked over 60 hours a week, including Saturdays, and I didn't know how the heck to get everything done. He just looked at me as if to say, "Ohhhhhhh. Point taken."

[classylady]

This is a tough one. I used to keep my house fairly clean. At least the living room, kitchen, and laundry were done. I've had the husband asking me "What did you do today?" It didn't go over so well with me. I had an infant at the time that wanted to be fed nonstop, along with a couple of toddlers.

My husband is old school, where the man just doesn't do house work. I've worked full time, and then had to come home and do all the house work. I felt like I was helping with his "part", but he didn't help with my "part". He does help with dinner, though. And that is a big help! One of my biggest obstacles to a clean house is that DH never puts anything away. He comes home from work, and his bags, papers, computer, tools, etc. goes onto the kitchen table, or any other available surface. If I don't pick up after him, it can sit there for days, weeks, or even months at a time. If he does a repair job in the house, he thinks he can make a huge mess doing it, and then expects me to clean up after him. I got tired of picking up after him years ago. I don't do a lot of picking up after him anymore. It's just too discouraging.

Now, if he asks me why the house isn't cleaned, I answer, "It's as clean as you want it to be". Meaning, if he wants a cleaner home, he can help around the house, or at least pick up after himself.

[NightSG]

Assuming that it all has a basis, I'd say that he needs to leave his mom out of the discussion, and learn a little about communication styles.

This; he should spend some time over at AoM learning about rhetoric and persuasion.

[Wingnut]

This; he should spend some time over at AoM learning about rhetoric and persuasion.

AoM?

[NightSG]

AoM?

The Art of Manliness | Men’s Interests and Lifestyle

If the Church ever decides to make an outside website required reading for all priesthood holders, that should be it. (Not a bad choice for women, either; most of the topics there definitely transcend gender, and a lot of women would be well served to see that some men do still hold to the values expressed on the site.)

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Wow...just wow.

I really need to get off the internet...right now.

I just can't decide what to make of this. I'm a full-time mom now, but my house-keeping was not any better when I was a stay-at-home mom...for reasons I already mentioned in the other thread.

This is just really bad timing for me and I am trying to figure out what to make of it. . .you know those stories where people are struggling and they open their scriputres and the right answer just pops out at them?

I'm feeling overwhelmed about my house being a mess (and spent time in therapy talking about why that is and how it triggers me)...and I get on the computer for some distraction (I'm at work, so cleaning the house is not even an option right now)...and here's two threads about this topic that can only make me feel worse....what can I discern from this? That Satan is real? That God is absent in my life?

Sorry...over share...seriously I am trying to work out how to trust God again. If He could not prevent my abuse because He has to allow free-agency and all that, then what is the point of praying about anything at all? I mean seriously. And while I am trying to figure this out, my home and visiting teachers are likely trying to figure out how they can help me clean my house...because somehow that is the most important issue?

I really need to stop typing...right now...

[rameumptom]

I would look into the possible causes for her not handling her duties. Perhaps depression? When one hits a depressive state, the chores only creates a greater depressive state and paralysis of action. Maybe time to see the doctor....

[talisyn]

Oh wow, I would never say any of these things to my stay-at-home husband...no matter what the state of my house

[Suzie]

My opinion on this thread is the same as the other one.

On a light note, I LOVE doing household chores when I come home from work, specially cleaning and vacuuming. No, I am not mental. I really do, it is therapeutic for me HOWEVER ladies no...I won't be de-stressing at your home anytime soon.

[Tough Grits]

What if the issue she's struggling with is that she's lazy? Serious question.

For the record, this is not about Sister Vort, who is probably the least lazy person I have ever known.

It is a serious question for some, but there are those who might not care.

It truly depends on the dynamic of the two individuals---as individuals and as a couple.

I have seriously come to understand that my understanding of laziness is seriously skewed, because I am frenetic, intense, and obsessive. So, lazy to me, may just actually be "normal".

I understand this. I do not compare my spouse to my level of energy and hyperness. However, after 13 years we have definitely recognized and established boundaries.

We both work. We both have household duties. We both have outside duties. It doesn't matter who does more, it only matters that we are both doing something. And when/if adjustments need to be made, we talk about it.

I have just had to learn that he is not me, and I am not him. That is a good thing. So, I don't criticize him for not going at such a frenetic pace as me, and he does not criticize me for, um, nailing bathmats to the floor, crashing into the lamppost with the mower (more than once), using the mower as a mulcher, getting the truck stuck on a cement pylon, using the minivan to jump a break in the road...and other such "hypothetical" situations.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

What if the issue she's struggling with is that she's lazy? Serious question.

Who gets to make that call? Just because someone thinks she is lazy doesn't make it so. Maybe the person making the "lazy' judgement is ignorant.

Sorry if I seem irritable. I am. I have been irritable for days, and one of the things bogging me down is stressing about my messy house. I work full-time, but it wasn't any better when I was a stay-at-home mom. So when I logged on last night and read these two threads, I was certain of only one thing--Satan is real. Seriously, kick me when I am down. I swear.

I have seriious emotional issues due to being severly abused as a child. If my house is "too clean" it gives me severe anxiety. If it is too messy, it's triggering...I mean "flashbacks" of my step-father beating my mother (and you don't want to know what he did to me for interfering)...triggering. (yes, I'm in therapy)

When my hometeachers come over (if they bother to come at all), I wonder if they look at my cluttered house and want to ask if the RS can help me. AND yet, they know I am going through a hard time and never in three years have either of them looked me in the eye and asked a sincere "how are you?" like they really care....but yeah, someone would love to clean my house.

Why is it harder to say I am a slob, than I have DID? (you can read about it on my blog)

Why is it easier to clean someone's house than to GENUINELY love them?

And yeah, it is easier to proclaim someone lazy, than to try and get to the heart of the problem.

[idahommie]

In both of your threads, you forgot about us SAHD(stay at home Dad's).....:)

It really does not matter which parent stays at home. I think it makes a difference when one parent is able to though, but financial situations may ny allow that.

Regardless, marriage is a partnership, it is not always equal, and life is not fair. If two people have dedicated their life to each other, and made the commitment to have children(which means You shoe them, house them, cloth them, pay for college and a mission if one goes...I do not mean to offend, BUT IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEM, DON'T HAVE THEM) then you work as a team, united in your goals, always staying focused on what needs to be done.

Contention in the home is unacceptable, especially over petty things. In the grand scheme of things, dishes that remain overnight in the sink, or vacuuming the house once a week rather than every day does not really matter.

Edited March 2, 2013 by john doe
Please don't call people trolls