Fat hate

[prisonchaplain]

i couldn't resist this thread and i feel like there are valid points from both sides. My profession is to judge people and tell them what they need to change to maintain their health, lose weight, get in shape. Since I've started i have seen countless "obese" people completely transform themselves overcoming numerous obstacles because they had the drive to do so. I have never once "hated" or "shunned" them and have always treated them with kindness, however, when they come to me i won't hesitate to tell them they are fat and need to change their lifestyle/diet in a particular way. It may sound harsh or rude but i don't think any one of them wouldn't thank me now. Seeing someone timidly walk into the gym afraid of what to do or say and then 4 months later seeing them jog into the gym looking leaner with a giant smile on their face is incredibly rewarding. I currently have an overweight client who is battling sleep apnea, diabetes, and hypothyroidism. He has completely changed his diet, never misses a session, and i have yet to do a weigh in where he hasn't been shredding weight despite having his medical issues. I'm excited to see where he will be in 4 months if he keeps this up and to see if his diabetes and sleep apnea subside. so even though i do not hate fat people i do judge because that is what i do for a living, i also believe if someone was truly dedicated to their health, diet, and fitness they would inherently see the changes they wanted despite any obstacle.

It sounds like what you do is part of the solution. You give love.

Hate, on the other hand, is usually followed with, "Hey, you know I was only joking, right?"

[MarginOfError]

It sounds like what you do is part of the solution. You give love.

Hate, on the other hand, is usually followed with, "Hey, you know I was only joking, right?"

It also probably makes a difference that people are paying him to make exactly that kind of a judgment. I doubt they'd receive the same treatment so well from random people on the street, or member of their congregations.

[prisonchaplain]

I don't know..."Give it to me straight, Doc." vs. "Level with me, brother."

Doc: Diet and exercise

Brother: Prayer and MUCH fasting...

Bishop: I've got just the calling for you...though it does involve intensive cardio...

[Finrock]

If a fat person is fat because they sit around playing video games the majority of their time, then that person will not make it to the Celestial Kingdom without repenting; not because of their fat condition, but because the person is being slothful, which is a sin. We are commanded to be anxiously engaged in doing good.

If a fat person is fat because they eat McDonald's hamburgers every day, then that person will not make it to the Celestial Kingdom without repenting; not because they are fat, but because the person has an addiction, which is sinful. We are commanded to bridle our passions and desires.

The truth is that we must be purged of all ungodliness before we can enter in to the Celestial Kingdom. Being fat is not sinful, but becoming and staying fat can and very often is a result of sinful choices in life.

It is clear to me that anatess was condemning sinful behavior, not fatness and appearances. And the truth is many people are fat and/or stay fat because of sinful behavior and choices.

Regards,

Finrock

Edited May 9, 2013 by Finrock

[wyarwehere]

If a fat person is fat because they sit around playing video games the majority of their time, then that person will not make it to the Celestial Kingdom without repenting; not because of their fat condition, but because the person is being slothful, which is a sin. We are commanded to be anxiously engaged in doing good.

If a fat person is fat because they eat McDonald's hamburgers every day, then that person will not make it to the Celestial Kingdom without repenting; not because they are fat, but because the person has an addiction, which is sinful. We are commanded to bridle our passions and desires.

The truth is that we must be purged of all ungodliness before we can enter in to the Celestial Kingdom. Being fat is not sinful, but becoming and staying fat can and very often is a result of sinful choices in life.

It is clear to me that anatess was condemning sinful behavior, not fatness and appearances. And the truth is many people are fat and/or stay fat because of sinful behavior and choices.

Regards,

Finrock

Keep in mind two things.

First, we are only human. Heavenly Father knows that we're going to make mistakes, not do everything the way we should. Our aim should be to do as much as possible right, but if we're honest with ourselves, no one is going to make the right decision 100% of the time.

Second, If a person is spending the majority of their time playing video games, we should actively reach out and try to get them motivated, not judge them and say you're not good enough.

If a person is eating McDonald's all the time, it doesn't necessarily mean they have an addiction. Perhaps they simply don't like to cook, or aren't very good at cooking. Or they simply like the food.

To keep English terms friendly to all. as per dictionary.com, the definition of an addiction is:

"the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma. "

I don't know about you, but to stop eating McDonalds(or any fast food) is not going to cause severe trauma to me.

Thirdly, as I said before, none of us is going to be completely perfect when we die. While that should be our goal, to be as close to it as possible, we have to face facts.

Finally, did you even read my previous post? Or MoE's? If you believe Heavenly Father is like that, someone waiting to point out our mistakes and judge us for being what we are, human, sinful beings, then obviously our opinion of a loving father is different. Being overweight is not a sin, we all make poor choices at some point in our lives. The key is, to remember we're all human. We make mistakes, mess up, cause discord at times. But, that in no way gives us the right to judge each other, because only God is the perfect judge.

[Vort]

Keep in mind two things.

First...

Second...

Thirdly...

Finally...

You should collaborate with PC on your new numbering schemes!

[Leah]

According to posts in this thread....

When my husband was in the last year of his life, there was a time when the dialysis wasn't effective enough and he was carrying A LOT of extra fluid in his body. He was receiving daily dialysis to try to correct the situation. He was on an extremely limited fluid intake. He was suffering in many ways.

But...according to posts in this thread....it is acceptable... and encouraged.... and taught...to judge him and declare him a sinner or a moral failure based solely on his physical appearance. Why, if he is "fat" he MUST be making "poor choices". No thought or feeling given to the possibility that there might be another explanation. Just immediate judgment that he must be doing something "wrong", when instead he was in intense suffering and fighting for his life in every way possible.

Conversely...I had a student that worked for me that was drop-dead gorgeous. Fit, toned, buxom, raven-haired....not only male students would find excuses to drop by the office and drool, but male faculty, as well. But according to those "official" charts out there, she was overweight.

Why no moral judgments against her? Simple. She was aesthetically pleasing to those passing judgment.

Why judge my husband? Simple. Those passing judgement found him ugly solely because of his weight.

People who feel compelled to make snap judgments about other people's weight...especially that of total strangers....aren't genuinely concerned about the other person's health. They don't bother to learn the details of that person's health. It doesn't even occur to them that there might be other reasons, the only possible reason is that they are a moral failure and a sinner. They are making a judgment based solely on what they find visually unacceptable. Ugly.

And spare us all the WoW defense...that you have the right to judge someone based on the WoW. Or that being fat is somehow a greater sin than adultery....or having a violent temper...or stealing...or a million other "poor choices". Perhaps we should go back to the days of the scarlet letter to level the playing field.

[Suzie]

By world's standards I'm thin (115 lbs) and it's mainly due to genes (my birth mother was very skinny) I do admit I hardly eat meat or fried foods and I enjoy healthier meals, having said that I still eat junk once in a while and my main concern has always been health rather than weight. I'm not obsessed with it or looks but I try my best to take care of myself.

It bothers me when people (specially thin people) judge those who are overweight, it bothers me when jokes are said about obese people, it bothers me because it could be ME or YOU or someone you love and I can only imagine how hurtful must be hearing those things.

In my opinion, it is none of my business why they reached that size, the most important point is that EVERYONE wants to be loved and accepted just the way they are. I can disagree all I want with their lifestyle but there are proper ways to address the issue without resulting on treating them like modern-day lepers. They are not.

If it's a friend, should I speak about it? Why not? A concerned friend will address the issue but with love, tenderness and understanding.

I have a background in Psychology and let me tell you: Nobody wishes to be overweight. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says that they enjoy being fat. Nobody. There are so many reasons why someone may be overweight or obese from health related conditions (physical) to serious trauma and psychological related issues that causes them to use food as a medication.

I would like to teach my children that they can be friends with anyone who wants to be their friend regardless of race, financial status or weight issues because it is my hope they can be a good influence and example to other people, perhaps the little chubby boy that was mentioned in one of the posts who eats Mc Donalds a lot and play videogames all day do not have good examples to follow, perhaps if he comes to my home and is served a healthier meal he will know better...maybe, just maybe he might change his choices because he saw an alternative.

People who are overweight or obese do NOT need to be scorned, mocked, proved"wrong", embarrassed, felt pity for or humiliated. Most of them have been dealing with all these things for years from others and from themselves. They need SUPPORT, they need people who are willing to be there for them just like everyone else, they need encouragement!

[pam]

I had a thought today about this. You take a person who has been overweight since a kid. He/she has been bullied all their growing up years by peers because kids can be pretty cruel. So they grow up not having any friends and spend years of loneliness. No friends because all people could see was the physical appearance and never got to know the actual person. They get to a point to where they think that there is just no use to do anything about it.

What they really need is acceptance for who they are. Acceptance can many times be a great motivator.

[Jenamarie]

I had a thought today about this. You take a person who has been overweight since a kid. He/she has been bullied all their growing up years by peers because kids can be pretty cruel. So they grow up not having any friends and spend years of loneliness. No friends because all people could see was the physical appearance and never got to know the actual person. They get to a point to where they think that there is just no use to do anything about it.

What they really need is acceptance for who they are. Acceptance can many times be a great motivator.

Yup.

I was that chubby kid. I heard comments about my weight through most of my young life and into adulthood. I was a young woman who desperately wanted to find "Mr. Right" and start a family, and yet was told on more than one occasion by various people that "no one would marry a fat girl." All those negative comments triggered emotional eating which probably was the opposite result those people wanted their remarks to me on have.

Well, lucky me, I met my husband, who fell in love with ME. Not my waist line. Not "you have such a pretty face". He loved me for me. ALL of me. And guess what made it a million times easier to finally start facing my weight issues and try to tackle them? In the 11 years of our marriage my weight has gone from over 200lbs, to my lowest weight of almost 130lbs (and I'm currently somewhere in the middle of that), but the way he has treated me and valued me hasn't fluxuated at all.

I cannot begin to describe how valuable his constant love and acceptance has been. I don't worry if he'll still find me attractive if I put on 15 pounds over the holidays. I don't feel disgusted when I look at my body, wondering how anybody could possibly love it, because I know my husband does, regardless of what it currently looks like.

Like a previous poster said, a fat person can start making those changes their critics say they ought to be making, but it'll still take months and/or years for the positive effects of those changes to become visible, and in the meantime they're still being criticized for their "poor choices" even if they're not making those poor choices any more. It's incredibly discouraging.

[Irishcolleen]

If a fat person is fat because they sit around playing video games the majority of their time, then that person will not make it to the Celestial Kingdom without repenting; not because of their fat condition, but because the person is being slothful, which is a sin. We are commanded to be anxiously engaged in doing good.

If a fat person is fat because they eat McDonald's hamburgers every day, then that person will not make it to the Celestial Kingdom without repenting; not because they are fat, but because the person has an addiction, which is sinful. We are commanded to bridle our passions and desires.

The truth is that we must be purged of all ungodliness before we can enter in to the Celestial Kingdom. Being fat is not sinful, but becoming and staying fat can and very often is a result of sinful choices in life.

It is clear to me that anatess was condemning sinful behavior, not fatness and appearances. And the truth is many people are fat and/or stay fat because of sinful behavior and choices.

Regards,

Finrock

What if a person eats Big Macs and plays video games all day but stays thin because of a medical condition or fast metabolism? Will they make it to the celestial kingdom?

I know many teens and young adults who sit around playing video games/watching tv and eating chips all day. They are thin yet they are making poor choices. Are we going to judge them as harshly as we judge those whose appearance it effects?

I am overweight. My husband and I eat the same foods. He is thin, has blood pressure that is higher than mine and I worry about his triglycerides, which are sky high. He also never works out. But, like I said, he is thin.

My blood pressure is usually 105/?, my cholesterol is within normal ranges, and I ha a stress test that showed I have a strong heart, and I do zumba 3 times/week. But, I am overweight. I do need steroids for lupus and I take anti-depressants to help with lupus brain-fog and fatigue.

Who do you think you/society would judge harshly, me or my husband? If we were Mormon which of us would you judge as unworthy to be in God's presence?

[Finrock]

I have no advanced degrees in anything.

I'm fat and I've been obese.

I have degenerative disc disease and advanced osteoarthritis in my lower back.

Between the ages of four and six years old I was sexually abused. I was raped many times. Because of the abuse and being overweight, most of my life I have felt completely worthless, utterly lonely and isolated from other people. Because of the abuse I have suffered severe anxiety and depression, among other things.

All of this has contributed to the conditions that caused me to become overweight/obese.

However...

For years I would spend much of my time playing video games or sitting around watching TV or being sedentary.

For years I would buy McDonald's or other fast food at least three times a week (sometimes more).

In the last year and a half I have lost eighty pounds. It was because I decided to exercise complete faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ. I asked God to show me my weaknesses and to give me strength to overcome them. I got my bishop involved and have been getting help from other professionals. For too long I have allowed Satan to lull me in to a life of complacency, self-pity, and selfishness. I decided that I didn't want to use my past or my condition as an excuse for my sinful behaviors. I stopped playing video games as much. I stopped eating at McDonald's as often. I started eating less and I started to exercise more often. But, not only that, I repented of my sins of slothfulness, addiction to food, and all of my sins.

I understand how important it is to feel loved and to feel wanted. I (nor anyone in this thread) have never suggested that we mock, scorn, belittle, or ridicule people that are fat. I have suggested, however, that each person is ultimately accountable for what they do with what has been given them.

Sometimes people have no control over what might have brought them to where they are.

Sometimes people use their past trauma as an excuse to continue living in sin.

It takes courage to change. It takes guts to finally be personally accountable and deal with the issues that are keeping you down or overweight. It is each persons responsibility to work with the Savior to purge out all of their sinful behavior or habits. I know it can be done.

But, of course, I agree that others help best by being accepting and supportive. The best thing I believe we can do is to help people realize how much Heavenly Father loves them and how willing He is to help them. At the same time, a true friend will not be an enabler of sinful behavior and will do what they can to encourage their friend to do the right things.

Whether fat or slim, sin is sin.

Regards,

Finrock

Edited May 10, 2013 by Finrock
spelling

[Finrock]

Good Morning Irishcolleen. I hope you are having a wonderful day! :)

What if a person eats Big Macs and plays video games all day but stays thin because of a medical condition or fast metabolism? Will they make it to the celestial kingdom?

I know many teens and young adults who sit around playing video games/watching tv and eating chips all day. They are thin yet they are making poor choices. Are we going to judge them as harshly as we judge those whose appearance it effects?

I am overweight. My husband and I eat the same foods. He is thin, has blood pressure that is higher than mine and I worry about his triglycerides, which are sky high. He also never works out. But, like I said, he is thin.

My blood pressure is usually 105/?, my cholesterol is within normal ranges, and I ha a stress test that showed I have a strong heart, and I do zumba 3 times/week. But, I am overweight. I do need steroids for lupus and I take anti-depressants to help with lupus brain-fog and fatigue.

Who do you think you/society would judge harshly, me or my husband? If we were Mormon which of us would you judge as unworthy to be in God's presence?

If a person stays in all day playing video games and has a food addiction, yet they are thin, they won't make it to the Celestial Kingdom without repenting. Being fat isn't a sin and being fat doesn't keep you from the Celestial Kingdom. Sin does. The truth is that we can be fat because of sin too.

In all circumstances, in all times, in all places, sin should be condemned.

I would judge neither of you to be unworthy to be in God's presence. I judge sin and sinful behavior. I don't think being fat is a sin. I think slothfulness and food addictions are sins.

Regards,

Finrock

[Traveler]

I will begin by saying that I do not intend to criticize anyone - I am attempting to enter into an open discussion to express my concerns and to ask question - that though they may seem offensive are intended to help my understand better what others may be thinking or expressing.

Point 1: I do not believe that being overweight is a good thing for anyone. That does not mean that good people will never be overweight. Just that whenever someone is overweight it creates hardships. I believe those hardships are both physical and spiritual. Again I do not say this to be offensive but to express as best I can my observations. Also recognizing that good people very often face physical and spiritual hardships - something I believe is part of life and the obtaining of knowledge of "good and evil".

Point 2: Many things are like icebergs and what we see is only a small part of what lies beneath the surface. I believe that overweight is often the result of much more than just diet and exercise. More likely than not those that suffer from overweight suffer from much more beneath the surface. I was quite surprised to learn (from TV hit series The Biggest Looser) that financial stability and personal confidence (emotional stability)are very often a difficulty that accompanies the overweight problems and that those issues must be addressed before a healthy weight can be realistically attempted.

Point 3: I do not know anyone that likes to be told to improve - even if they are given specifics of how to. But I believe this is part of what Jesus taught about being meek and humble. The scriptures tell us that G-d reproves those that he loves. Often we must be forced to our knees (as a symbolic reference) before we will consider or listen to others that can help us. Again this is not intended to be an offense but quite often we make possible friends our enemies thinking that their concerns are expressions of bulling and hate rather than encouragements to do things that would benefit us. Even though in various cases such encouragements could be misguided and uninformed.

- I will add a little story here about an engineer working for McDonald Douglas aircraft. Late one night he was working on a problem from work when his young daughter came in to say good night. In frustration he snapped at his daughter and sent her off in tears. The wife came in to address the issue quite unhappy with her husband's inappropriate behavior. Of course a heated discussion followed that included criticism for the husband bringing his work home. In the course of the argument the husband pointed to his work and in essence told his wife his problem with the rear stabilizers on the new aircraft design. The wife - knowing nothing about aeronautical design looked at the drawings as her husband explained the problems cause from the turbulence caused by the main wings. The wife responded by saying - why don't you just put the rear wings on top of the tail fin? The next time you fly on an aircraft with the rear wings on top of the tail fin - just remember that it all came about because of an argument that had nothing to do with aircraft and someone giving advice that knew nothing about aircraft design but rather came to criticize something else and that the design followed when the engineer listened to someone's criticism that did not know what they were talking about.

The Traveler

[Vort]

- I will add a little story here about an engineer working for McDonald Douglas aircraft.

They make the jumbo jets that serve Big Macs for the in-flight meal.

In the course of the argument the husband pointed to his work and in essence told his wife his problem with the rear stabilizers on the new aircraft design. The wife - knowing nothing about aeronautical design looked at the drawings as her husband explained the problems cause from the turbulence caused by the main wings. The wife responded by saying - why don't you just put the rear wings on top of the tail fin?

Doing an undergraduate physics course in electrodynamics, I had really horrendous (for me) homework problems that took me hours per problem to do. One was just totally intractable, and I didn't know what to do about it. Sister Vort glanced over my work and said, "Doesn't 8 times 7 equal 56?" Sure enough, that was what I had done wrong. Oops.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Vort

[MarginOfError]

They make the jumbo jets that serve Big Macs for the in-flight meal.

Doing an undergraduate physics course in electrodynamics, I had really horrendous (for me) homework problems that took me hours per problem to do. One was just totally intractable, and I didn't know what to do about it. Sister Vort glanced over my work and said, "Doesn't 8 times 7 equal 56?" Sure enough, that was what I had done wrong. Oops.

Just as long as you remember that 6 * 8 = 42

[Magen_Avot]

This OP does ask a hard hitting question, but some responses have grieved my heart.

No matter what our individual take is, LDSQuotes.com has this to consider:

If we cold look into each other's hearts and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. ~Marvin J. Ashton

Edited May 11, 2013 by Magen_Avot

[pam]

This OP does asks a hard hitting question, but some responses have grieved my heart.

No matter what our individual take is, LDSQuotes.com has this to consider:

If we cold look into each other's hearts and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. ~Marvin J. Ashton

Not to change the subject but ldsquotes.com also has a facebook page. :) Believe me..I know. :)

[Magen_Avot]

Not to change the subject but ldsquotes.com also has a facebook page. :) Believe me..I know. :)

...yep! And that's where I actually got the quote from the other day.

[dahlia]

A&F have had problems for years. It is well known as an employer that utilizes racist, age-ist and appearance-based hiring practices and clothing design. It's not my kind of store, but my son could shop there, but won't.

Maybe it's just me, but when I see that kind of employer behavior, my natural inclination is not to patronize that store anymore. I guess the son is takes after me.

It's useful to read the business section of the newspaper or business news sites you can keep up with who's doing what among the entities with which you do business. I have no problem shopping elsewhere when a company gets on my nerves. It's a big world.

I could cite their bad actions, but Wikipedia has a pretty comprehensive list of the legal actions brought against them and the wrong-headed clothing designs that got them in hot water.

[talisyn]

I love this letter to A&F.

Amy Taylor: An Open Letter from a 'Fat Chick' to Mike Jeffries, CEO of Abercrombie And Fitch

Funny thing about wearing your struggle on the outside: it makes you stronger. It teaches you how to adapt. It forces you to dig deep and do more. And while people like you are sitting at the cool kids table intent on holding others down, the ragtag team of not-so-cool kids is busy pulling others up...and we've become an unstoppable force driving the world forward.

[Klein_Helmer]

Not only do I refrain from hating on fatness, I encourage it.

http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/53735-ethical.html

Edited May 12, 2013 by Eowyn
deleted thread linked makes post irrelevant