Sacrament rules

[Kirkko]

Can you partake of the water if you miss the bread? Do you always do everything with the right hand?

[pam]

Yes you can partake of the water and no you don't have to do it with the right hand.

[apexviper]

Pam is exactly right. There's nothing doctrinal that backs up using the right hand for the sacrament. There's also nothing about it in the handbook. I was asked to help pass the sacrament last week and I was the one who went to the foyer to see who was out there. A family, consisting of a single mom and a few kids, says no to partaking of the sacrament because they got there after the prayer was said and she actually didn't let her kids partake of the sacrament either because of it. She told them they're not allowed to partake of it if you show up after the prayer. There are so many false things said by members about the sacrament. Don't focus on minor and unimportant things. Focus on why we partake of the sacrament.

[bytebear]

It's kind of funny and I think this is why we tend to avoid crosses. We make things holy outside of their purpose. The bread and water isn't magical, and is still just bread and water. It's our act and remembrance that makes the covenant complete. Some things are sacred like garments, but after their purpose has been fulfilled and the sacred symbolism removed, they become common rags. We don't bless scriptures, and I think rightly so, try to remove the idea that tangible items are holy. They are only holy in their meaning, not in their substance.

[Vort]

I disagree. The bread and water together form the ordinance. If you miss the bread, do not take the water. I do not know if this question has been covered in official channels, but that seems common sense to me.

[Just_A_Guy]

I'm inclined to agree with Vort, actually--we're so fussy about getting the verbiage of the rite exactly correct every time (even making priests repeat the prayer two or three times, sometimes, until they do)--it seems odd to think that "half a sacrament" is just as efficacious as the whole thing.

There's no requirement that sacrament be taken with the right hand; but Joseph F. Smith (I think!) taught that the right hand is the "hand of covenant" and I think meditating on that symbolism--and trying to act accordingly--can make the sacrament, as well as the temple rites, a little more meaningful.

(But then again, when you've got four kids under seven, just keeping the bread/water from ending up on the floor can be a major accomplishment some weeks.)

[apexviper]

I'm inclined to agree with Vort, actually--we're so fussy about getting the verbiage of the rite exactly correct every time (even making priests repeat the prayer two or three times, sometimes, until they do)--it seems odd to think that "half a sacrament" is just as efficacious as the whole thing.

There's no requirement that sacrament be taken with the right hand; but Joseph F. Smith (I think!) taught that the right hand is the "hand of covenant" and I think meditating on that symbolism--and trying to act accordingly--can make the sacrament, as well as the temple rites, a little more meaningful.

(But then again, when you've got four kids under seven, just keeping the bread/water from ending up on the floor can be a major accomplishment some weeks.)

I've never felt a difference in the Spirit when I've used the left hand for the sacrament compared to the right. Although the right is the covenant hand, we still use the left for covenants as well.

[classylady]

I'd just like a cut-and-dried answer whether or not it's okay to take the water if you missed taking the bread.

[bytebear]

It's not a saving ordinance, so it won't affect your eternal salvation. And it's not a sin, so it won't affect your immediate spirituality.

[skippy740]

The Sacrament is a two-part ordinance, including the bread and water. Even in the prayers, the prayer for the bread shows that one is willing to keep the commandments... while the prayer over the water says that one does follow the commandments. (D&C 20)

I would look at it this way: If you were late to an endowment session, would they let you in 1/2 way through to take the other 1/2 and call it a complete session? I don't think so.

If you missed the bread because the priesthood didn't pass it to you, you can raise your hand, and someone (the Bishop) should notice and help make sure it is passed to you.

If you missed the bread because you were late... all I can say is this: repent and be on time.

Yes, I do everything with my right hand. There is no requirement for you to do so. I do find it fascinating that all of the following are done with the right-hand to the square:

• Being placed under oath in court
  
• Reciting the BSA Oath and Law with the right hand to the square and the BSA sign
  
• Sustaining members to their new callings is also done with the uplifted hand
  
• Baptismal prayers are done with the right hand to the square
  
• See 1 Nephi 1:3 - why does Nephi make an emphasis of "that I make it with mine own hand"? Thekabalist had some fascinating insights here.

[Quin]

The Sacrament is a two-part ordinance, including the bread and water. Even in the prayers, the prayer for the bread shows that one is willing to keep the commandments... while the prayer over the water says that one does follow the commandments. (D&C 20)

I would look at it this way: If you were late to an endowment session, would they let you in 1/2 way through to take the other 1/2 and call it a complete session? I don't think so.

If you missed the bread because the priesthood didn't pass it to you, you can raise your hand, and someone (the Bishop) should notice and help make sure it is passed to you.

If you missed the bread because you were late... all I can say is this: repent and be on time.

Yes, I do everything with my right hand. There is no requirement for you to do so. I do find it fascinating that all of the following are done with the right-hand to the square:

• Being placed under oath in court
  
• Reciting the BSA Oath and Law with the right hand to the square and the BSA sign
  
• Sustaining members to their new callings is also done with the uplifted hand
  
• Baptismal prayers are done with the right hand to the square
  
• See 1 Nephi 1:3 - why does Nephi make an emphasis of "that I make it with mine own hand"? Thekabalist had some fascinating insights here.

This stems from the English /European practice (no longer followed) of branding or tattooing criminal's Right hands.

F on the palm for Felon

P for piracy

M for malefactor

BC for bad conduct discharge (military felony)

Etc.

This practice tapered off in the 1800's... But we'd already written our constitution & judicial code by then.

Before the age of fingerprints, DNA, social security numbers, photo ID... It was pretty easy for criminals to just move and reinvent themselves. We also branded slaves, runaway slaves, deserters, and others... But in other places. In some old court cases, you'll read of victims & defendants being asked to disrobe for inspection, or bear their breast. Doesn't make a lot of sense, until you realize the court is looking for your criminal history, old school style.

Although, (not quite oldschool) up until just recently, the Swiss would still cut off the index finger of forgers (they may still, the swiss take money & art as holy, but my deutche ist nicht so gut, and English google is failing me). Of course, many Islamic states still cut off your hand for stealing. But, as far as I know, that didn't enter into our criminal justice system means of identifying prior bad acts.

This wiki-article touches on some of it. Human branding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Q

[Just_A_Guy]

Although the right is the covenant hand, we still use the left for covenants as well.

Sort of . . . But not in the same way.

[mordorbund]

I was asked to help pass the sacrament last week and I was the one who went to the foyer to see who was out there. A family, consisting of a single mom and a few kids, says no to partaking of the sacrament because they got there after the prayer was said and she actually didn't let her kids partake of the sacrament either because of it. She told them they're not allowed to partake of it if you show up after the prayer. There are so many false things said by members about the sacrament. Don't focus on minor and unimportant things. Focus on why we partake of the sacrament.

If her family is like my family, you misunderstood why we declined the emblems. When we run late to church - so late that we miss the sacrament prayer - we have not properly prepared ourselves for the Lord's supper. Bytebear is correct,

The bread and water isn't magical, and is still just bread and water. It's our act and remembrance that makes the covenant complete.

My way of teaching this lesson to my children (and remembering it myself) is that if we skip the remembrance part, then we skip the act as well (my children are in junior primary, as they get older they'll get to use more of their discretion).

[applepansy]

I'd just like a cut-and-dried answer whether or not it's okay to take the water if you missed taking the bread.

just my opinion:

Its ok as in nothing wrong with taking only half the sacrament. But you're missing the ordinance.

[beefche]

I'd just like a cut-and-dried answer whether or not it's okay to take the water if you missed taking the bread.

What do you mean by "okay?" Do you mean, "okay" in that someone will refuse you to take the water if you haven't taken the bread? No, no one is going to refuse to give you water if you haven't taken the bread first.

Do you mean "okay" as in the Lord condemns such an action? That's a little harder to answer. I don't think He condemns, but as others have pointed out, taking 1/2 of the sacrament isn't fulfilling the full ordinance. So, if you don't partake of both, then you really aren't taking part in the ordinance.

[pam]

I don't think there is a cut and dry answer. You will always find those rare circumstances that would have someone only taking part of the sacrament.

I realize that my earlier statement was too much of a blanket statement.

Overall I agree with those that said it's important to partake of both parts. But for legitimate reasons, I would never tell someone that they couldn't partake of the water if they missed the bread.

Edited December 24, 2013 by pam

[mnn727]

Can you partake of the water if you miss the bread?

Yes

Do you always do everything with the right hand?

No

Pertinent section of the Church Handbook of Instructions. Nothing in it about either of the above, thus there are no rules about it.

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings/20?lang=eng#204

Edited December 24, 2013 by mnn727

[classylady]

What do you mean by "okay?" Do you mean, "okay" in that someone will refuse you to take the water if you haven't taken the bread? No, no one is going to refuse to give you water if you haven't taken the bread first.

Do you mean "okay" as in the Lord condemns such an action? That's a little harder to answer. I don't think He condemns, but as others have pointed out, taking 1/2 of the sacrament isn't fulfilling the full ordinance. So, if you don't partake of both, then you really aren't taking part in the ordinance.

If I remember correctly, it seems in my Ward (long ago), the deacons were advised to not give the water to those who came in late and missed the bread. I don't know if our ward was just being overly zealous or if they had direction from higher authority. This is no longer practiced. That is where my confusion lies. At one time we could not take of the water if missing the bread, and now it's a matter of no concern. We were never given information as to why the change in ward policy.

[apexviper]

If her family is like my family, you misunderstood why we declined the emblems. When we run late to church - so late that we miss the sacrament prayer - we have not properly prepared ourselves for the Lord's supper.

No I didn't misunderstand. She told her kids that if you miss the sacrament prayer you aren't suppose to partake of the sacrament which of course is false.

[Vort]

No I didn't misunderstand. She told her kids that if you miss the sacrament prayer you aren't suppose to partake of the sacrament which of course is false.

Why is that "false"? You can partake of the sacrament if you want, of course; but if you miss participating in the ordinance prayer, you are not a part of the ordinance. At least that's how it seems to me.

[EarlJibbs]

Why is that "false"? You can partake of the sacrament if you want, of course; but if you miss participating in the ordinance prayer, you are not a part of the ordinance. At least that's how it seems to me.

I agree. Is there such a thing as a half covenant with God? Being present for the prayer is more than simbolic. Just as being present for the baptismal prayer is more than just a prayer.

I think the member gave their children a good lesson.

[The Folk Prophet]

I think the member gave their children a good lesson.

I believe this is to the point. My wife and I always use our right hands and will teach children the same. I would also not take the water if I missed the bread or either if I missed the prayer.

There is no specific policy on these things. But there is good sense and respect. My sense of things and my respect for the ordinance runs along these lines.

If others use their left hands however, that's their business.

[MarginOfError]

Why is that "false"? You can partake of the sacrament if you want, of course; but if you miss participating in the ordinance prayer, you are not a part of the ordinance. At least that's how it seems to me.

It's false in the sense that the Church isn't willing to take a stance on the issue. As far as I am aware, the official counsel is that each individual may decide for him or herself and may consult with their priesthood leaders if there is a question.

I can imagine situations in which I would go both ways. If I were late the church because I wasn't willing to stop playing Minecraft, I would probably forego the sacrament. If I were late because I stopped to help someone change their tire while I was en route to church, I probably would.

But, I also don't care as much about the ritualistic aspects of our faith as others do, so my approach won't work for anyone who puts more stress on the ritualism.

[The Folk Prophet]

It's false in the sense that the Church isn't willing to take a stance on the issue. As far as I am aware, the official counsel is that each individual may decide for him or herself and may consult with their priesthood leaders if there is a question.

I can imagine situations in which I would go both ways. If I were late the church because I wasn't willing to stop playing Minecraft, I would probably forego the sacrament. If I were late because I stopped to help someone change their tire while I was en route to church, I probably would.

But, I also don't care as much about the ritualistic aspects of our faith as others do, so my approach won't work for anyone who puts more stress on the ritualism.

I mostly agree. I'm not sure the reason for being late is really a concern. But I also think it's pretty clear there is no policy on it for a reason.

As has been pointed out, it is not a saving ordinance. And it really doesn't matter. If in the theoretical myriad of weeks we take the sacrament we miss the prayer and take it anyway, then what, exactly, does that mean to our salvation, our situation in life, or anything? Are we contending that we therefore will NOT have the Spirit with us that week at all?

I do contend, however, that we should do our best to show respect and reverence for the ritualistic aspects of our faith (as they are clearly intended by the Lord to be), and that we should, accordingly, not do something that betrays our best understanding of that. Don't take the sacrament if you've missed the prayer if you have a sense that you shouldn't. If you have no sense of that, I don't expect it much matters.

As to whether we SHOULD have that sense? Debatable (obviously) but my take is, yes. It seems pretty obvious that the prayer is part of the ordinance. Miss that and you've missed it.

[MarginOfError]

I mostly agree. I'm not sure the reason for being late is really a concern.

This goes back to the emphasis on ritualism. If I placed more emphasis on the ritualism, then I would probably agree that the reason for being late isn't a concern. Whereas I don't hold that same emphasis on ritualism, I don't feel bad taking the water if the reason that I missed the bread was that I was out giving meaningful service to someone in need.

In other words, to the non-ritualists, the intent and preparation toward the ordinance carry more weight in our decision to participate in the ordinance than does our presence/absence at the beginning of the ordinance.

But I understand where ritualists are coming from, and don't have a problem with it. Unless they get zealous and threaten me with hell-fire for not doing it their way. That's when the gloves come out. Fortunately, no one has done that to me in quite some time.