Missions and obesity

[notquiteperfect]

Wow, Hopless! It sounds like you've got quite a chip (or several) on your shoulder! I sure hope that isn't/doesn't lead to a weight issue since you're convinced that appearance is the only concern.

(If this seems a bit unkind, that may be. I just found your posts incredible to say the least!)

Edited January 29, 2014 by notquiteperfect

[estradling75]

So you are pretty much saying that only slimmer people are worthy to serve and those with medical conditions that likely cause their obesity, something that has no bearing on their ability to serve rules them out as worthy or meeting this standard? What a joke. This post just reeks of ignorance. Do you know how many people are overweight and not by a little yet perform physically as well as their skinny counterparts? You are essentually stating that her son isn't of high enough quality to serve. How is he physically unfit if his doctor cleared him?

I reek of ignorance???... Lets compare experts. You have the Young Man and the young man's Doctor. The Doctor clearly is expert enough be be called a doctor and has examined the young man so he knows the young man's medical conditions. He fills out the paperwork for Missionary Medical that they need. The Doctor gives his opinion on if the young man can serve but that opinion has to be taken in context of what the Doctor knows about the demands of missionary service.

Missionary Medical is responsible for 50,000+ missionaries and they know exactly what kinds of demands missionary service makes. They have been doing such for decades, they have learned what works and what doesn't work. Sure they are human and can make mistakes but they have learned what it takes. They take the young man's medical paperwork as filled out by the young man's doctor and compare it to the demands they know the young man will face and they have to make a call to reject or accept.

Now I would wager that Missionary Medical has a strong bias toward approving. We are a missionary church and the call is for more missionaries not less, plus I'd image that many in Missionary Medical are former missionaries, or who have close family who have served. So I have every reason to believe they get what a potential missionary has done in submitting papers.

Given all this I find that the idea that Missionary Medical is rejecting people for no good reason to be highly ignorant

Edited January 29, 2014 by estradling75

[Just_A_Guy]

Actually they do pressure. They are taught and encouraged by their YW and RS leaders to date RMs as a means to getting men on mission. It was like that in my pre-missionary days. There is a problem in the church with women not being willing to date or commit to men who didn't serve missions. I've run into this quite a bit.

I think the bigger problem in the Church is males who believe they have a unilateral God-given right to marry any young woman who calls herself a Mormon irrespective of the standards that the young woman herself has set for a potential mate.

Forget gender roles or female priesthood ordinations--this, I think, is the most toxic form of sexism that exists in the modern LDS Church.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[FunkyTown]

I think the bigger problem in the Church is males who believe they have a unilateral God-given right to marry any young woman who calls herself a Mormon irrespective of the standards that the young woman herself has set for a potential mate.

Forget gender roles or female priesthood ordinations--this, I think, is the most toxic form of sexism that exists in the modern LDS Church.

Does anyone actually believe that? 'Cause that's toxic on many levels: To the Priesthood holder, to the young woman and to investigators.

[Just_A_Guy]

Oh, I think lots do. Few would openly admit to the belief, of course; but its adherents tend to betray themselves by the way they talk about the young women whose standards they see as objectionable and/or the persons and institutions who encourage young women to hold to those standards.

[Backroads]

How judgmental of you to say that. Also, some people struggle with obesity due to genetic and hormonal factors (hypothyroidism, goiters, Hashimoto's, Cushings, etc), lead very active lives and eat healthy, yet are still obese! Have you not considered that?

Yes, I did. Obviously these people would not fit in the unhealthy category, and these people who are truly medically obese yet healthy and active are the exception to the rule.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Backroads

[Backroads]

I think the bigger problem in the Church is males who believe they have a unilateral God-given right to marry any young woman who calls herself a Mormon irrespective of the standards that the young woman herself has set for a potential mate.

Forget gender roles or female priesthood ordinations--this, I think, is the most toxic form of sexism that exists in the modern LDS Church.

Amen to that.

If we go with the present complaint that young women only marry returned missionaries, we turn to villifying any young women who considers a mission potentially something to look for in a mate.

And to Quin, thanks so much for your expansion on my post! :)

Edited January 29, 2014 by Backroads

[Leah]

I am saying they are human and make errors like everyone else.

So...the leaders make errors, but you don't?

You don't have your facts quite straight about hypothyroidism. Or other things, for that matter.

There IS a lot of fat hatred within our society. A lot of judgments do get made based solely on looks. It is one of the accepted, "politically correct" prejudices within our society. Including amongst SOME members of the church. But if you are at all familiar with the teachings of the Church and its leaders, this is not church 'policy', and it is certainly not what is being taught by our leaders.

If what you are contending were true, there would be no overweight missionaries anywhere, but we all know that is not true.

Again, there is a lot of fat hatred in our society. But there are also those who play the "fat card" when it is not relevant to the situation.

[Guest]

How judgmental of you to say that. Also, some people struggle with obesity due to genetic and hormonal factors (hypothyroidism, goiters, Hashimoto's, Cushings, etc), lead very active lives and eat healthy, yet are still obese! Have you not considered that?

Yes, I did. Obviously these people would not fit in the unhealthy category, and these people who are truly medically obese yet healthy and active are the exception to the rule.

Are you both saying that people with hypothyroidism, goiter, Hashimoto's and Cushings are healthy?

And you're saying it doesn't matter if they have a disease (regardless of whether you think they're still healthy), they can't be barred from serving a full-time mission? Are you then going to sue the GA's if these people end up without adequate medical care to treat the disease in the field?

If you don't think the General Authorities are not inspired by the Lord, then, really, there's no point in arguing the requirements because... then you shouldn't be serving a mission. For those who have faith in the authority of the General Authorities, then this discussion is relevant. So really, this discussion is irrelevant to Hopeless but relevant to Backroads.

Edited January 29, 2014 by anatess

[Backroads]

Are you both saying that people with hypothyroidism, goiter, Hashimoto's and Cushings are healthy?

And you're saying it doesn't matter if they have a disease (regardless of whether you think they're still healthy), they can't be barred from serving a full-time mission? Are you then going to sue the GA's if these people end up without adequate medical care to treat the disease in the field?

If you don't think the General Authorities are not inspired by the Lord, then, really, there's no point in arguing the requirements because... then you shouldn't be serving a mission. For those who have faith in the authority of the General Authorities, then this discussion is relevant. So really, this discussion is irrelevant to Hopeless but relevant to Backroads.

I'm saying that if a person can reach a basic standard of health and activity level despite any given disease or condition, sure, I'll consider them healthy by a basic standard. In many a case having a certain disease or condition is no excuse for not exercising, eating healthy, and in many a case it's not impossible for someone to be, for all intents and purposes, reasonably healthy and active.

How does this fit in mission activity? Far be it from me to decide what standards of health apply to a mission. I've never been on one, I have no concrete idea what's required. I do trust a good combination of faith, prayer, knowledge of health, and, yes, good ol' common sense has been taken into account to determine a health, fitness, and body condition standard for missionaries.

I was merely replying to that Hopeless' complaint that people say someone with such-n-such disorder can't reach a certain level of health. Whether or not such people can make mission standard health is neither here nor there.

[EarlJibbs]

I think they reflect an attitude of ignorance (one that you share with them BTW) and will drive some away from the church eventually.

Something screams at me that policies are not set out of an "attitude of ignorance".

As far as driving people away from the church? The church cannot please everyone and is not established to do so. We all need to think about what would be those one or two things that would potentially make us leave the church and try to work on them. separation of the wheat and the tares comes to mind. Which one will I be?

I would be devastated to find out that I could not serve a mission (weather hereditary or not). But in the end, we must all make our decision to accept or not. And I don't think that approaching the right authority for reconsideration would be bad, but at one point or another, we must uphold the leaders that we have raised our right hands for.

[Suzie]

I think understand both positions. The Church for one side trying to protect their missionaries at the risk of being labeled as discriminatory and members feeling hurt because of certain restrictions about missionary work and of course, us as members who could do a much better job at understanding and "seeing" beyond the anger and frustration manifested by them.

[Backroads]

I think understand both positions. The Church for one side trying to protect their missionaries at the risk of being labeled as discriminatory and members feeling hurt because of certain restrictions about missionary work and of course, us as members who could do a much better job at understanding and "seeing" beyond the anger and frustration manifested by them.

You're better than me.

I have trouble sympathizing and understanding when people shout at me how evil and judgmental I am.

[SpiritDragon]

I think it must be hard to be told you can't serve a mission and I feel for all worthy individuals who find themselves in this position. It has been stated and restated that there are other ways to serve, and they can be just as rewarding and fulfilling... alas they do not hold the same prestige as serving a full-time mission. It is also unfortunate that it has been taught and likely still is taught (by some) to our young women that they should only marry returned missionaries, because this does add insult to injury. However it is not policy or doctrine to only marry returned missionaries and to the contrary I have heard the general authorities trying to improve this situation and encourage seeking for admirable traits of worthiness and industry regardless of RM status. The GA's are God's mouthpieces and He understands the pain of not only the young man who was worthy but unfit for service, but also he who was unworthy and missed the opportunity and has now repented and wishes to enjoy all the blessings available to him, as well as those who are converts and never went/had the opportunity.

As for the church having a weight bias and not sending obese missionaries into the field because it doesn't suit the image the church wants to put forth; it doesn't really add up. There are plenty of other ways to look unappealing that the church wouldn't desire from a corporate marketing perspective that have nothing to do with weight. There is no stopping people from going on missions with acne, or who are too short, or who have red hair :) or other perceivable undesirable traits. One needs to back up and ask the question: is the missionary program inspired of God? Are those in authority to act and call missionaries to serve acting as God would have them do? Is the church true?

If the answer to these questions is yes, then we really need to step back and acknowledge God's hand in His work. We don't know the difference between one young man and another who are both obese and yet one serves and the other does not. God does know.

Yes the church is made up of people, and as such imperfect decisions are made. God knows all things and our various challenges will work together for our good.

As an aside, it is possible that the weight issue is a red herring. Did the church send an official statement to the household declaring the weight issue? I know of many young men who use excuses to explain not serving a mission to avoid the uncomfortable admission of unworthiness. I am NOT accusing any one of being unworthy... just implying another possibility.

[Suzie]

You're better than me.

I have trouble sympathizing and understanding when people shout at me how evil and judgmental I am.

Nah, no better. I am just trying to see it beyond the anger. Sometimes what people need is just someone who validates their feelings but sometimes we confuse validating with agreeing and actually we don't have to agree to validate them. Makes sense?

There are people who are very emotional and sensitive and the way they express themselves is based on pure emotion, it is hard sometimes not to take it personal hence, validation helps them to manage their emotions better because they now feel heard and accepted and when anyone feels that way, they tend to be calm. Also there is no need to fight because the other person is acknowledging the distress and empathizing and reaching out. Again, it has a soothing effect in the other person.

By the other hand, when we do not validate their feelings (emotional invalidation) it creates or increases the feeling of rejection, anger, aggression and loneliness. People in these situations get upset and start "attacking" when they do not feel understood and accepted. Again, understood does not mean agreeing but just someone willing to say: "You know what? It really sucks what you are going through! How can I help?".

Hope I am not coming across as "know it all", I just wanted to add the psychological aspect of it. What we see in people's behavior are just the symptoms.

[Finrock]

Just accept this as a test of your faith. The Lord tests us many ways. We can't always see the end from the beginning. It is best to trust the apostles and trust in God. There may be more to this than you think and it would not be a wise to allow this to canker your spirit.

All things will work out for your good and the good of your son if you put your faith in Jesus Christ. It sounds trite and when we are faced with adversity it even sounds condescending for someone to offer up this type of advice but honestly it is the best choice.

-Finrock

[The Folk Prophet]

Nah, no better. I am just trying to see it beyond the anger. Sometimes what people need is just someone who validates their feelings but sometimes we confuse validating with agreeing and actually we don't have to agree to validate them. Makes sense?

There are people who are very emotional and sensitive and the way they express themselves is based on pure emotion, it is hard sometimes not to take it personal hence, validation helps them to manage their emotions better because they now feel heard and accepted and when anyone feels that way, they tend to be calm. Also there is no need to fight because the other person is acknowledging the distress and empathizing and reaching out. Again, it has a soothing effect in the other person.

By the other hand, when we do not validate their feelings (emotional invalidation) it creates or increases the feeling of rejection, anger, aggression and loneliness. People in these situations get upset and start "attacking" when they do not feel understood and accepted. Again, understood does not mean agreeing but just someone willing to say: "You know what? It really sucks what you are going through! How can I help?".

Hope I am not coming across as "know it all", I just wanted to add the psychological aspect of it. What we see in people's behavior are just the symptoms.

How conniving and manipulative of you.

(Just in case it isn't entirely clear, Suzie, I'm completely joking).

[HoplessMarriageReject]

I'm saying that if a person can reach a basic standard of health and activity level despite any given disease or condition, sure, I'll consider them healthy by a basic standard. In many a case having a certain disease or condition is no excuse for not exercising, eating healthy, and in many a case it's not impossible for someone to be, for all intents and purposes, reasonably healthy and active.

How does this fit in mission activity? Far be it from me to decide what standards of health apply to a mission. I've never been on one, I have no concrete idea what's required. I do trust a good combination of faith, prayer, knowledge of health, and, yes, good ol' common sense has been taken into account to determine a health, fitness, and body condition standard for missionaries.

I was merely replying to that Hopeless' complaint that people say someone with such-n-such disorder can't reach a certain level of health. Whether or not such people can make mission standard health is neither here nor there.

How do you know they aren't eating healthy and being active????? Again, there is soooooo much more in play than just diet and lifestyle. (hormones, genetics, insulin resistence, side effects of medications to name a few).

[FlyAway]

Its to bad all they ever wanted to do is serve the Lord.

Perhaps you are looking at this the wrong way. I'll give an example.

I'm a convert, baptized three years ago. At my year mark, I was ready to go on my mission. Got everything squared away mostly then I realized I forgot about a medical bill. I had to pay it off before my mission. So I kept at it started paying it off waiting and hoping I'd go on my mission soon enough. Then I was ready TWO months and I would have been gone. Then I met Isaac. We got sealed in the temple eight months later.

Things do not go the way you want or even expect them. Don't think of it as the church saying no to your son, think of it as God trying to guide your son to someone who needs him now where he is. There are missionairies that are fluent in three languages and get a mission call one state over that's English speaking. We don't know the ways of the Lord. We aren't supposed to. We are just supposed to figure out what his will is. And your son is NEEDED where he is. He just needs to find out why.

[Saldrin]

I can understand the frustration. All I can say is the weight can be lost and there is time, have him work towards that goal. Have you considered hiring a Certified Personal Trainer? Have a coach helping one into a healthy life style can really help, and it does have to be a lifestyle change but its such a positive one.

[Guest]

How do you know they aren't eating healthy and being active????? Again, there is soooooo much more in play than just diet and lifestyle. (hormones, genetics, insulin resistence, side effects of medications to name a few).

Are we still talking about the mission or are you arguing that obese people are healthy?

Eating healthy and being active is not the issue when it comes to the mission. Chronically needing a special doctor is the issue and the church's liability if such level of medical care cannot be obtained in the mission field. They issue a general standard and then you can go talk to your bishop/stake president for an exception.

[Backroads]

How do you know they aren't eating healthy and being active????? Again, there is soooooo much more in play than just diet and lifestyle. (hormones, genetics, insulin resistence, side effects of medications to name a few).

I don't know they aren't eating healthy or being active.

But if they are unable to meet Health Qualifications ABC and XYZ, regardless of whatever they are doing for their lifestyles, they do not meet the aforementioned health standards.

Let's say, for whatever health standard, someone must run a 7-minute mile (just pulling a number here, folks).

If Joe can't run a 7-minute mile, it doesn't matter that it's because of his genetics and medications and it doesn't matter he can swim the English Channel no sweat.

He can't run a 7-minute mile and that's that.

[missmollymormon]

I think it is fair to say the church has a right to set standards. The line has to be drawn somewhere. Sure, there are healthy obese people, but that is the exception not the rule. My point is that this young man has to take it like a man. Accept the decision and either try to do something about the weight issue and hopefully pass the next medical-which I understand could be hard, or he could find another way to serve the lord. He could, of course just take the whimps way out and go inavtive as he has already threatened to do. But which option wouldhelp him grow more spiritually?

I might get shot for saying this, but just the fact that he is considering going inactive over this decision tells me he probably isnt spiritually ready for a mission yet anyway. I do feel sorry for him though, it would be hard. I will pray for him, just my two cents, but I bet there will be some who dont agree. All good

[Gretchen]

We had a lesson once in Relief Society about missions. One sister said that she, several years ago, turned in her mission papers and got a rejection letter. She went to nursing school, completed the program, and was about to accept a really good position that she knew would never be offered to her again when her mother suggested she submit her mission papers again. She got her mission call, served a mission, and came home and took a not-as-glamourous position (I don't remember what it was, or even if it was in the same field).

Point of this story; It might not be that the Lord is telling him "no", it could be that the Lord is saying "not at this time".

[NightSG]

Simple case in point; if the missionaries in Dallas 15 years ago had been in better shape, they would have taken me up on "if you can keep up, I'll listen," while pedaling uphill. They might have convinced me then, rather than having to wait until I gained 15 pounds and had a woman distracting me before they could catch up.