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Suzie

Where is everyone?

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I don't find us to be very contentious. Personally, I constantly have to filter my language and the tone of my responses because y'all are so much nicer folks than what I am used to dealing with (especially as a lawyer). I guess I was raised to argue - my stepfather was a litigator and we had to 'argue' for what we wanted (ex: if we wanted new clothes, we had to present our argument for them). Becoming an attorney myself only encouraged thinking of communication in terms of argument and disagreement. Although it's done differently, there is a ton of argument and disagreement in academe.  We just clothe it in bigger words.

 

The difference is, we come to enjoy and live by this way of speaking to other people and forget that others find it difficult to 'debate' and then still be friends with the opponent. Many people can't do this; if you strongly disagree with them, they can't be your friend. That can be too bad, which is why Iearned to tone down my responses and leave the good fights where I can draw blood to the people who enjoy the taste of blood as well and won't have their feelings hurt.

 

btw - I think there are fewer people because it's summer.

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I was not 'comphy' with the new look and feel. I loved the old look... the angels were awsome and connected with my self-identity... as LDS not as an angel. ;) I miss some of the old days, posts. Really enjoyed 'em,... but I was a bit snotty sometimes and regrett that.... didn't get a time out though.

 

People, and I include myself in that, surround themselves with things that *fit* their expectations or personalities ect. The new look didn't do that for me and I've only been back only a couple of times and I think this is my first post in the new forum (not sure though). It's just not homey *for me* and carries a *feel* that, perhaps, makes unintended statements.... and I uh,... may be a tad bit sensitive about it but that's unintentional.

 

I've also undergone much change... Bytor kinda says it for me. I have found a couple of blogs that address things I've since found importance with, but that was after the change. I just stumbled by today wondering what the scuttlebutt might be about.

 

Sorry for intruding.

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My only request would be that mods give us a warning that a thread might be closed if the bashing continues. That gives people a chance to step away for a bit, take some deep breaths and walk around the block but then come back and continue the discussion with more civility. So many times I'll be reading along, maybe rolling my eyes a bit at the cat fight going on but still see some value in the what people are saying. And then BAM, Thread Closed. Nothing more.   It feels as if we're juveniles and have been dealt with by our  middle school teacher. Like when the whole class get punished when some knucklehead can't keep his mouth shut.

 

Please give some public warnings or red flags or something. We honestly don't know if you've given someone a private warning. The sudden closing of a thread without explanation feels punitive for adults.

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Please give some public warnings or red flags or something. We honestly don't know if you've given someone a private warning. The sudden closing of a thread without explanation feels punitive for adults.

 

 

With all due respect carlimac...  everyone has a public warning... its called the Rules.  We also have discussions like this.

 

The forum has been given the principles by which it is to function.  We would love for it to govern itself.

 

There are times we will give additional warning, but from experience historically speaking once they start going bad threads do not recover even if we give additional warnings.

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I was not 'comphy' with the new look and feel. I loved the old look... the angels were awsome and connected with my self-identity... as LDS not as an angel. ;) I miss some of the old days, posts. Really enjoyed 'em,... but I was a bit snotty sometimes and regrett that.... didn't get a time out though.

 

People, and I include myself in that, surround themselves with things that *fit* their expectations or personalities ect. The new look didn't do that for me and I've only been back only a couple of times and I think this is my first post in the new forum (not sure though). It's just not homey *for me* and carries a *feel* that, perhaps, makes unintended statements.... and I uh,... may be a tad bit sensitive about it but that's unintentional.

 

I've also undergone much change... Bytor kinda says it for me. I have found a couple of blogs that address things I've since found importance with, but that was after the change. I just stumbled by today wondering what the scuttlebutt might be about.

 

Sorry for intruding.

heya :) haven't seen ya for a while

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With all due respect carlimac...  everyone has a public warning... its called the Rules.  We also have discussions like this.

 

The forum has been given the principles by which it is to function.  We would love for it to govern itself.

 

There are times we will give additional warning, but from experience historically speaking once they start going bad threads do not recover even if we give additional warnings.

 

I think sometimes a few members manipulate this system, I am sure the mods have seen this. Not everyone knows the art of how to debate. Sometimes a particular thread seems to be about "I am right, I am right and I will fight every single word you say because yeah, I am right" so to speak.

 

It is hard to debate if the conversation turns personal, I don't know. I like to exchange views, ask questions, provide quotes, scriptures in order to support a point of view. I always use JAG as an example because we disagree in a lot of issues and we have debated in the past and yet exchanged views, learned things and enjoyed the discussion (at least on my part, hope it is the same with JAG) but sometimes what I observe is that someone perhaps do not have backup information to support their point of view and instead of just saying so (which is normal and acceptable imo) they get personal out of frustration with the intent to get the thread closed.

 

It is a pity when that happen, one because I think it is a very silly thing to do and second because it is unfair to the other people who wanted to participate in the thread minus the drama.

 

Lastly, I don't know, I believe asking questions is very important when we are unsure what someone meant instead of assuming people's intentions.

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I have to say that it feels sometimes like the oldies have a "leetle" more freedom to say what they want without repercussion. That makes sense because some of you have been coming here for years and the mods 'know" you. Some have even met in person. There is a deeper understanding of where that person is coming from, tolerance for their sarcasm, etc. If they "attack" another poster, well...hahaha, that's just so-n-so being so-n-so. 

 

Not long ago a newbie-ish ( I think)  kinda lost it and a really interesting and important ( I thought) discussion got the door slammed shut.  A few days later someone tried to revive the discussion but I think everyone had either moved on by then or just didn't dare tread there again. It just seems a shame. Most forums I've been on, when that happens, one of those sparring usually goes off in a huff and the conflict ends or fizzles pretty rapidly on it's own.

 

One of the things the Church gets a lot of criticism for is that it's members are "shut down" if they voice a differing opinion. Is there any way we can show that we CAN tolerate this kind of thing, use a soft voice to turn away wrath and show what a Christ-like people we really are?

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When mods are forced to act against a poster... Many things are considered.  One of those factors is how much positive contributions have they made to the forum.  That does favor the more long time posters, but do know its not the only factor.

 

As for closed threads its been my experience that if we just wait a few days or so the subject will come back around.  A new thread will be created or an existing thread will drift to it

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Some random thoughts:

 

Part of the problem when actions are taken against a poster is that the person generally vehemently disagrees that they were/are breaking site rules, even when shown exactly what they have done. Everyone thinks they are in the right, and they are being unfairly targeted by certain/all mod staff.

 

Personally I have become less involved on the forums partly because after a while the discussions become the same. People with agendas will always bring up their agenda no matter the topic. I can accurately predict most posters' posts before they chime in on threads. Eventually it all becomes the same to me, and I have no interest in carrying out pointless conversations.

 

If we want to have better and more conversations with more people, we need to learn to see things from perspectives different from our own.

 

Some good posters have been chased off because certain other posters here have goaded them into breaking site rules and then complained that we weren't harsh enough in our punishments. And now you're complaining about them being gone? You got what you wanted. When someone is banned, they're banned. Rarely do they get an opportunity to come back.

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Some random thoughts:

 

Part of the problem when actions are taken against a poster is that the person generally vehemently disagrees that they were/are breaking site rules, even when shown exactly what they have done. Everyone thinks they are in the right, and they are being unfairly targeted by certain/all mod staff.

 

Personally I have become less involved on the forums partly because after a while the discussions become the same. People with agendas will always bring up their agenda no matter the topic. I can accurately predict most posters' posts before they chime in on threads. Eventually it all becomes the same to me, and I have no interest in carrying out pointless conversations.

 

If we want to have better and more conversations with more people, we need to learn to see things from perspectives different from our own.

 

Some good posters have been chased off because certain other posters here have goaded them into breaking site rules and then complained that we weren't harsh enough in our punishments. And now you're complaining about them being gone? You got what you wanted. When someone is banned, they're banned. Rarely do they get an opportunity to come back.

Just like when a new person shows up and says.....recently had the missionaries in my home.....I have a question ....or something to that and let the bashing begin.....those who oppose the church are easy to spot

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Just like when a new person shows up and says.....recently had the missionaries in my home.....I have a question ....or something to that and let the bashing begin.....those who oppose the church are easy to spot

 

Bless their hearts. 

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I always use JAG as an example because we disagree in a lot of issues and we have debated in the past and yet exchanged views, learned things and enjoyed the discussion (at least on my part, hope it is the same with JAG) but sometimes what I observe is that someone perhaps do not have backup information to support their point of view and instead of just saying so (which is normal and acceptable imo) they get personal out of frustration with the intent to get the thread closed.

Luckily, if Suzie ever stumps me I've got my oracle ready to go:

"Soooosie is a booger braainn!"

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When mods are forced to act against a poster... Many things are considered. One of those factors is how much positive contributions have they made to the forum.

Indeed. There shouldn't be favoritism, obviously; but Suzie can posit questions about-say-Joseph Smith's polygamy, and we know (because she has a history here) that she's just trying to have a discussion, that she isn't trying to undermine anyone's testimony, that she will duly consider and respectfully engage a variety of potentially conflicting posts, and that her contributions will tend to reinforce her own perspective that Joseph Smith was a true prophet.

A brand-new member who created his or her first thread with an identical post to Suzie's hypothetical post would get a much shorter leash until we knew what his/her intentions were.

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Bless their hearts.

My Mother in law is originally from Texas and has lived here in the Midwest since she was about 19yrs old. She still has her Texas accent and uses that phrase bless their hearts or bless your heart often.

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I don't find us to be very contentious. Personally, I constantly have to filter my language and the tone of my responses because y'all are so much nicer folks than what I am used to dealing with (especially as a lawyer). I guess I was raised to argue - my stepfather was a litigator and we had to 'argue' for what we wanted (ex: if we wanted new clothes, we had to present our argument for them). Becoming an attorney myself only encouraged thinking of communication in terms of argument and disagreement. Although it's done differently, there is a ton of argument and disagreement in academe.  We just clothe it in bigger words.

 

The difference is, we come to enjoy and live by this way of speaking to other people and forget that others find it difficult to 'debate' and then still be friends with the opponent. Many people can't do this; if you strongly disagree with them, they can't be your friend. That can be too bad, which is why Iearned to tone down my responses and leave the good fights where I can draw blood to the people who enjoy the taste of blood as well and won't have their feelings hurt.

 

 

Ha! I attended a conference not too long back, most of which was dominated by two fairly high ranking officials with differing opinions shouting at each other quite emotively from across the room. It was interesting to see them drinking in the pub together and laughing as friends that evening, like the conference had never happened. The next day, they were shouting at each other again during the second phase of the conference...

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Mahone, that sounds like dinner at my in-laws' tonight. They shout and yell and disagree and the next thing you know, they're laughing and joking and playing a game together. It's perplexing to me. 

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Mahone, that sounds like dinner at my in-laws' tonight. They shout and yell and disagree and the next thing you know, they're laughing and joking and playing a game together. It's perplexing to me. 

 

I didn't know you are married to a Filipino!  :D

 

Or he could be Italian...

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Some good posters have been chased off because certain other posters here have goaded them into breaking site rules and then complained that we weren't harsh enough in our punishments. And now you're complaining about them being gone? You got what you wanted. When someone is banned, they're banned. Rarely do they get an opportunity to come back.

 

For the record, I'm not complaining.  The length of some of the leashes given out has played a big role in my reduced activity here (and perhaps that should include my own leash).

 

But, then again--and with all due respect--I'm an idiot.

 

 

More seriously, the level of activity around here has decreased because, to rephrase john_doe, there's very little fresh blood.  A part of that has to do with the loss of the chat room (I'm not advocating to bring it back, just stating my observation).  It's a lot harder to establish yourself in this community with only the forums.  I felt like a lot more people drifted into the forum--and stayed longer--from the chat rooms than we get now.  Probably because it's easier to establish rapport with others in an immediately interactive environment as opposed to the delayed interaction of the forum.

 

One thing that would go a long way to revitalizing the community would be for us to back off of new posters a bit.  I feel like we often see a new member post a thread, and then we all pounce and leave three pages of responses before the new member even has a chance to come back and see that there is a response at all.  And since the lifespan of a thread staying on topic is an average of 3.2 replies, they probably feel like we've alienated them before we've helped them.

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A part of that has to do with the loss of the chat room (I'm not advocating to bring it back, just stating my observation).  It's a lot harder to establish yourself in this community with only the forums.  I felt like a lot more people drifted into the forum--and stayed longer--from the chat rooms than we get now.  Probably because it's easier to establish rapport with others in an immediately interactive environment as opposed to the delayed interaction of the forum.

 

 

 

Actually the demise of the cha troom had nothing to do with our participation on the site going down.  The chat room was taken down almost 4 years ago.  We saw a substantial increase in traffic to the site in the 2 years after that. Those that were regulars in the chat room like to think it had a detrimental effect on the site when in reality it did not.

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Actually the demise of the cha troom had nothing to do with our participation on the site going down.  The chat room was taken down almost 4 years ago.  We saw a substantial increase in traffic to the site in the 2 years after that. Those that were regulars in the chat room like to think it had a detrimental effect on the site when in reality it did not.

You'll have to forgive the statistician in me, Pam.  But what do you mean by traffic?  Because page views is not a good indicator for the hypothesis I've proposed.  The number of new signups and the duration of activity are the markers that would address what I'm getting at.  (and even then it's going to be very difficult to sort out because of the heavy skew toward short duration),

 

The kinds of questions I would want to look into are things like

 

What are the monthly new user signups leading up to and in the years following the close of the chat room?

How many new user signups remain active more than a month?  More than three months?  more than six months?

How long does the typical user remain active in the community?

Has the duration of user activity changed since the close of the chat room?

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You'll have to forgive the statistician in me, Pam.  But what do you mean by traffic?  Because page views is not a good indicator for the hypothesis I've proposed.  The number of new signups and the duration of activity are the markers that would address what I'm getting at.  (and even then it's going to be very difficult to sort out because of the heavy skew toward short duration),

 

The kinds of questions I would want to look into are things like

 

What are the monthly new user signups leading up to and in the years following the close of the chat room?

How many new user signups remain active more than a month?  More than three months?  more than six months?

How long does the typical user remain active in the community?

Has the duration of user activity changed since the close of the chat room?

 

I kept stats for close to a year following the close of the chatroom.

 

The number of people coming to the site increased.  The average daily number of posts to the forums increased substantially.  The average daily start of threads increased.

 

The software we had didn't keep any kind of stats on how many people used the chatroom.  It kept track of how many people logged into lds.net.   All I know is that the number of visitors to the site and the number of posts and threads increased quite substantially after the chatroom closed.  

 

I know many people at the time said we would lose quite a few members.  To be honest, I didn't see that.  

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I didn't know you are married to a Filipino!  :D

 

Or he could be Italian...

 

Western European mutt. . . but by definition, our last name pretty much means "someone who is loud and obnoxious", so. . .

 

My family, on the other hand, goes to great lengths to avoid any kind of confrontation or contention, and our gatherings are remarkably quiet, considering how many of us their are. Except when we're singing or laughing. :)

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I can't believe I was missed!
Yeah... I was... not well mentally. It was pretty evident at times I had a... I donno I'd just snap. I was in my own little world, I'd go on about things and it didn't do well for anyone. I needed to step back, (move across the province) and really get my life under control, as it was just...so unhappy.

But I'm all better now, finally gotten things under control, so felt I ought to come back and contribute a little again.

 

I went to one of the meetinghouses here and its too big, and still with this 9:30 am stuff! lol

I'd go every Sunday if it was, like at 11:30 lol

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