John Koyle Prophecies

[JojoBag]

I just recently learn of some alleged prophecies from a former bishop, John Koyle. He was excommunicated from the church and died in 1949. He made a series of alleged prophecies, one of which caught my attention.

 

“Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together.”

 

 

Since three general authorities recently died in quick succession, it makes me wonder what else he said that has and will come true. The following are a few of his prophecies.

 

 

The United States would commence selling wheat to its greatest enemy.

 

The Republican elephant would be in power. At an election, it would sink to its knees, never to rise again.

 

Weather pattern changes would be seen to the far south-west. Drought would proceed northward year by year increasing in intensity until reaching the valleys of Utah. At that time the troubles were to start in the valleys. The drought would then head east, increasing in intensity.

Utah Copper will close towards the end.

Something will cause the Church welfare program to be inadequate at the end.

 

At the end things will happen so fast that a person will not be able to tell what is to occur first.

The U.S. Government will keep propping up the economy as if it were on stilts, until finally it would suddenly collapse overnight.

 

Taxes will become oppressive and almost impossible to pay.

Banks will commence taking over mortgage defaults until they own many properties, helping to add to depression. There will be plenty of money in the banks, but none to lend out.

 

There will be an overnight price crash. Wages and prices will be 20 cents on the dollar.

 

Depression will occur just before drought.

 

Depression will become so bad in the United States that service boys will be called home to keep money in the country.

In the end there will be a great apostasy in the Church. A rift in leadership will cause many members to leave. Something will happen to make members congregate in and around the churches, and at various other locations to discuss and ponder the great disturbing changes occurring. This will mark the commencement of the time of problems for the Church, as well as the time of apostasy.

The rich will grow richer and the poor poorer, until many will be blue in the face with hunger when the mine comes in.

 

The leaders of the nation will be blown out of office as if by a whirlwind. They will hide fearing for their lives.

There will be great bitterness towards the general authorities. The leaders will have to take to the pulpits to keep people from leaving the Church.

 

 

 

What do you think?

[Vort]

I just recently learn of some alleged prophecies from a former bishop, John Koyle. He was excommunicated from the church and died in 1949. He made a series of alleged prophecies, one of which caught my attention.

 

I think the General Authorities are always old, and have been for most of the Church's history. And I think I won't listen to an excommunicated member to find revealed truth.

[Just_A_Guy]

Even a stopped watch is right twice a day . . .

[pam]

A Bishop doesn't receive prophecy for the Church.  

[cdowis]

The question is not *what* he said, but *who* told him these things.  Note that many of these predictions directly attack the confidence in its leaders and the survival of the church.  Some will say, "Oh dear, we have three apostles which have been replaced, so his prophecies are coming to pass."

 

May I suggest that this is a mixture of truth and lies.  As Satan told Eve, "You will not die" after telling her that she will have knowledge.

 

The entire purpose of these statements, as they come to pass, is to cause the saints to lose confidence in the church and its leaders.

That's what I think.

 

[JojoBag]

The question is not *what* he said, but *who* told him these things.  Note that many of these predictions directly attack the confidence in its leaders and the survival of the church.  Some will say, "Oh dear, we have three apostles which have been replaced, so his prophecies are coming to pass."

 

May I suggest that this is a mixture of truth and lies.  As Satan told Eve, "You will not die" after telling her that she will have knowledge.

 

The entire purpose of these statements, as they come to pass, is to cause the saints to lose confidence in the church and its leaders.

That's what I think.

 

Yeah, I agree that there is a lot of animosity in some of these alleged prophecies. I have a problem with those that attack church leaders.  What I'm more interested in are those that pertain to the condition of the U.S. and its imminent collapse.  I have found a correlation between Koyle's utterances and those of more reputable sources.  His predictions of the weather changing, famine, crop failures, disruption in the government, all correlate with prophecies of many apostles and prophets.

[Vort]

I have found a correlation between Koyle's utterances and those of more reputable sources.

I might be interested in the "more reputable sources." I care nothing for the ravings of an apostate.

[Guest]

 

 

 I have found a correlation between Koyle's utterances and those of more reputable sources.  

 

So his "prophesies" aren't original.

 

If I prophesy things that have already been prophesied, does that make me a prophet?

[Palerider]

A Bishop doesn't receive prophecy for the Church.

Thank goodness for that .....they have enough to do as it is. ....:)

[Palerider]

So his "prophesies" aren't original.

 

If I prophesy things that have already been prophesied, does that make me a prophet?

It doesn't make you a prophet but perhaps a prophetess. Lol

[spamlds]

I really feel strongly about the topic of these false oracles that are distracting members of the Church from the true ones.  In the Doctrine and Covenants, we have an example that the Lord used for instruction and correction.

 

In Kirtland, Ohio, there was a wave of successful missionary work that added hundreds of members to the Church in a place far from the first home of the Church in New York.  The members were excited and filled with zeal.  That zeal led them to many errors.  Satan led new members astray with false revelations.  The members meant well.  They were so excited that God had restored prophecy and revelation to the earth that they got carried away.  People did all kinds of unseemly things in the name of "having the Spirit."  One man, for example, followed a glowing orb that he saw in a vision and it led him to jump off a bluff in pursuit of it.  He might have been seriously injured, but he landed in a tree.  The manifestations were similar to those swooning, fainting, trances that were common among spiritualists of the time.

 

The Prophet arrived in Kirtland and found there was much to correct.  He had to teach these new members that there was an order and economy in the house of God.  The Lord is not disorderly in the way he gives revelation.  Revelations come according to one's stewardship.  Also, the "spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" (1 Corinthians 14:32).  What a living prophet receives will dovetail with that of previous prophets.  

 

In Kirtland, Joseph had to take aside Brother Hiram Page, who was receiving revelations for the whole Church via his own personal "seer stone."  The instructions the Lord gave Joseph are in Section 28 of the D&C.

 

 11 And again, thou shalt take thy brother, Hiram Page,between him and thee alone, and tell him that those things which he hath written from that stone are not of me and that Satan deceiveth him;

 12 For, behold, these things have not been appointed unto him, neither shall anything be appointed unto any of this church contrary to the church covenants.  (D&C 28)

 

When I taught Seminary about 20 years ago, I learned that the contents of Hiram Page's revelations had to do with the location of the future Zion in Missouri.  In other words, Satan was trying to disrupt the plan of the Gathering by introducing some truths out of sequence, before the Lord had given them to the Church through Joseph.  Joseph had to correct Brother Page and had him destroy the stone to remove the temptation to resort to it again. 

 

Today we have all kinds of people repeating so-called revelations from Julie Rowe, Bishop Koyle, Denver Snuffer, and others--some of whom profit from their "revelations."  Members are unwilling to wait for the Lord to speak through the called and sustained prophets.  Even though some of the things these people say may seem true, the Lord is not speaking to the Church through them.  They will lead whoever follows them astray.  I want to say that with as much emphasis as I can.  These are modern-day Hiram Pages who are not called by the Lord to reveal these things, even if there were truth to their "visions."

 

In the Book of Mormon, Lehi's son Jacob explains why the Jews in Jerusalem were smitten and scattered, even though they had living prophets among them.  He wrote:

 

"....Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it" (Jacob 4:14). 

 

If any saints hunger for the "more sure word of prophecy," there are ample writings from true, called, ordained, and sustained Church leaders all the way back to Joseph Smith.  John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, George Albert Smith, and others prophesied exactly how America will meet its demise.  Those hungry for descriptions of plagues, earthquakes, fires, floods, and war will find it from the words of these true oracles without having to resort to today's pretenders.  All of these men held the appropriate priesthood keys and offices to give the revelations they left for us.  

 

Consider for example, Orson Pratt.  Pratt was specifically commanded by the Lord in D&C 38 to "...lift up your voice and spare not, for the Lord God hath spoken; therefore prophesy, and it shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.." (D&C 38:10).

 

Pratt was called by the Lord to prophesy.  He has his critics because was strong-minded and stubborn at times.  He published a speculative work on "The Great First Cause" that went beyond revelation into his speculations and it was declared non-doctrinal by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve.  Pratt repented and returned in time.  Aside from that, no one in authority every criticized his prophecies.  Likewise, Wilford Woodruff and John Taylor gave remarkable prophecies and we know where their authority came from and how they got it.  

People have a tendency to say, "Oh, Orson Pratt was excommunicated, so we shouldn't listen to him." Then these same people will turn around and follow a Bishop Koyle or a Denver Snuffer, who were excommunicated and never repented or returned to the fold.  There is plenty of true revelation from reliable sources upon which we can focus our studies.  

 

My point is that the Church has a rich body prophetic and apocalyptic utterances from true oracles who were called by God for that purpose.  I value all of these teachings and I have done my utmost to study them and understand them.  I stay grounded in the scriptures and bless God that he has given us these additional words of knowledge to help us and motivate us.  Most of all, I'm thankful for living prophets who we can trust to lead the way and tell us what needs to be done at the time the Lord sees fit to provide those instructions.

Edited October 22, 2015 by spamlds

[The Folk Prophet]

I predict that in the future the apostles will be old.

 

And you can trust me, 'cause I'm the folk "prophet". Get it? The folk "prophet".

[Guest]

I too predict that future apostles will be old.

 

In the mouth of two or three witnesses...

[Anddenex]

So his "prophesies" aren't original.

 

If I prophesy things that have already been prophesied, does that make me a prophet?

 

Yes and no.  The testimony of Jesus is evidence of the spirit of prophecy, and God would have us all be prophets/prophetesses. 

 

If I say, Jesus is the Christ and will come again.  I have prophesied and I am thus a prophet....just not a prophet with keys and authority.

 

**********************************************************

The spirit of prophecy is a gift of the spirit, why is it then that people think we need to be the prophet (key holder) to prophesy, or that our prophecy holds any water?

[Guest MormonGator]

I think the General Authorities are always old, and have been for most of the Church's history. And I think I won't listen to an excommunicated member to find revealed truth.

 Amen to that. I'll stick to the actual, legit church leadership, thank you. 

I'm always uncomfortable when people claim to be "prophets" for our church unless they are, well, prophets. Because if they predict something and get it totally wrong, it effects the credibility of the church.  

Edited October 22, 2015 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

And you can trust me, 'cause I'm the folk "prophet". Get it? The folk "prophet".

 

Y'know, all this time I thought it said "the false prophet" . . .

[Traveler]

Many years ago I worked on the development and deployment of the cruse missile.  The navigation of the cruse missile uses a pre-determined and known path from source to the destination - I would liken this (as a similar example of navigation by president Uchtdorf) and then a specialized down looking radar to match the current turane against the turane of the pre-determined and known path.  Often we reference the scriptures (prophesy) as a map or guide to help us find our way.  But that is only part of what the cruse missile uses.  The other most important element is current feed back and exact location of where we are to the prophetic path.  This I would liken to current revelation - without which; that initial path or revelations are useless and even misleading.

 

By synchronizing the known path with the current turane the curse missile is able to fly so accurately that it can fly through a target window 3 feet in diameter at an exact altitude 1,500 miles from where the missile was launched.  But if the known map has a flaw or if there is at any point confusion over the exact location being traveled on the path - the missile can miss the target by hundreds of miles - rendering the missile completely useless as a threat to the target.

 

This is the great problem I see in religious efforts that believe in the authority of closed cannon - they may understand that path or way of the closed cannon but have no clue as to where they are thinking prophetic turane is a match for what they observe on their current path.

[JojoBag]

Don't get me wrong.  I agree with much of the sentiment expressed about Koyle.  However, even the Devil will tell the truth.  And yes, he always does that to get in a lie.  What I'm attempting to do is correlate true prophecies from church leaders with some of the things he has stated.  If something does not agree with what has already been revealed, I ignore it as not truthful.  And, of course, the only way to keep from being deceived is to follow the true prophet, not a false prophet.

 

I consider many sources in my quest for knowledge.  Simply because a person was eventually excommunicated does not mean that everything he stated is false.  If that were the case, we need to disregard everything any former, excommunicated GA has ever stated as false, starting with Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris and David Whitmer and their testimonies of the Book of Mormon.  I'm also under the impression from the responses that some of you think we should never listen to the inspired words of the ordinary, nobody person in church.  I also take it from these responses that some of you think only an apostle or the prophet can receive revelation.  And before anyone starts in, I know all about it being "personal" revelation when it comes from a nobody church member.

 

What I have a problem with is that too many LDS think that if something is "personal revelation," it is only true for that specific person.  When it comes to personal problems, personal circumstances, I agree with that, but when it comes to an eternal gospel truth, the "personal revelation" from a nobody member is true for everyone.  I realize it is not a nobody member's privilege or right to publish it as a revelation intended for the entire church; that comes only from the prophet, but that does not invalidate the truthfulness of that person's revelation.  When the Spirit confirms another person's "personal revelation" to me, then I accept it as truth. just as I would when the Spirit confirms to me the truthfulness of what the Prophet teaches.

 

 

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

(Joel 2:28–30) Also see Acts 2:17

 

 

I do not take another person's word for something unless I have implicit trust in them (not always then either), especially things I hear during church (not general conference; I accept that).  I investigate it to see if what I heard agrees with what is already revealed.  All too often I find some things said were tradition and not truth.  This is the case with many of the Koyle "prophecies."  I'm interested in finding out the truth.

 

We are expected to find out things for ourselves, to seek out knowledge and understanding, and to gain intelligence.  If we sit back and wait for the prophet to tell us what to do, we are in serious trouble.

 

 

For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

(Doctrine and Covenants 58:26)

 

[NeuroTypical]

Nostradamus foretold jet fighters too, because he talked about how "the half pig man will find it hard to speak", and fighter pilots have difficulty speaking during high-g maneuvers, and wear those cool helmet things that look like this:

 

[The Folk Prophet]

Y'know, all this time I thought it said "the false prophet" . . .

 

When in the future you see that the apostles are, indeed, old, it will show the veracity of my words.

 

I also predict that the church will continue to grow, more temples will be built, and that eventually we'll do full missionary work in China, Israel, and the like.

[The Folk Prophet]

However, even the Devil will tell the truth.

 

But does he know the future?

 

What I'm attempting to do is correlate true prophecies from church leaders with some of the things he has stated.

 

Why?

 

I consider many sources in my quest for knowledge. 

 

Including the devil?

[omegaseamaster75]

 

 

What do you think?

I think it's a bunch of Dooty or is it Doodie? 

 

there is a reason that this guy was ex' ed and as far as his "predictions" if you throw enough crap at a wall some of it's going to stick.

[omegaseamaster75]

Don't get me wrong.  I agree with much of the sentiment expressed about Koyle.  However, even the Devil will tell the truth.  And yes, he always does that to get in a lie.  What I'm attempting to do is correlate true prophecies from church leaders with some of the things he has stated.  If something does not agree with what has already been revealed, I ignore it as not truthful.  And, of course, the only way to keep from being deceived is to follow the true prophet, not a false prophet.

 

 

Which "true" prophecies are you talking about? I'd like to know because I think you would be hard pressed to pin down a leader of a prophecy 

 

 

What I have a problem with is that too many LDS think that if something is "personal revelation," it is only true for that specific person.  When it comes to personal problems, personal circumstances, I agree with that, but when it comes to an eternal gospel truth, the "personal revelation" from a nobody member is true for everyone.  I realize it is not a nobody member's privilege or right to publish it as a revelation intended for the entire church; that comes only from the prophet, but that does not invalidate the truthfulness of that person's revelation.  When the Spirit confirms another person's "personal revelation" to me, then I accept it as truth. just as I would when the Spirit confirms to me the truthfulness of what the Prophet teaches.

 

 

Please cite me an example of "personal revelation" that expanded on an eternal gospel truth that was true for everyone. 

 

 

We are expected to find out things for ourselves, to seek out knowledge and understanding, and to gain intelligence.  If we sit back and wait for the prophet to tell us what to do, we are in serious trouble.

 

We don't need to wait for the Prophet to tell us what to do, we have the gospel plan already. Searching out "truths" in apostates writings is quite frankly barking up the wrong tree. Stay on the current path (I mentioned that we already have a road map right).

 

Don't dumpster dive you only set yourself up for disappointment.

[Guest]

 

 

Including the devil?

 

 

To put it in perspective, Jojo is the one who believes we ought to study evil spirits so that we can conquer them. Most of us disagree, but that's his stance. 

[JojoBag]

But does he know the future?

 

 

Why?

 

 

Including the devil?

Let me take your questions in order.

 

"But does he know the future?"  Well, I figured this to be self-evident, but I guess you don't know the answer to your own question.  The answer is, "No."

 

"Why?"  This question goes back to one of several problems with the LDS: the "all is well in Zion" syndrome.  I've heard in church more times than I can count that we don't need to know the signs of the times.  That is not only wrong, but stupid.  I read a conference report that related a study about food storage from the University of Utah.  Only 5% of LDS had one year worth of grain and less than 3% had meat, vegetables, etc.  Those who don't have food storage fall into one of two categories: 1. sincerely cannot afford it, which would be very few LDS. 2. All is well in Zion crowd.  That's the crowd that will get cleansed and I don't want to be part of that group.  Studying the signs of the times will let me know what is coming as each sign presents itself.

 

"Including the devil?"  As I stated, the Devil tells the truth when it suits his purposes, always to deceive.  However, Brigham Young told us to "study...evil and its consequences."  As for taking the Devil's word for anything, nope, I don't go there.