**SPOILERS** If The Force Awakens, why was I going to sleep?

[Vort]

Just in case you didn't see the warning:

 

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Just saw the new Star Wars movie. I was not impressed by it, and I'm kind of unhappy about the fact. Let me try to explain why.

 

Lots of things can enhance the enjoyment of a movie. A well-directed movie is almost always a pleasure to watch. Good acting can bring it to the next level. Scoring, sets, and costuming can add an extra dimension to the experience, making a good movie great and a great movie outstanding.

 

But for me, it all starts with the writing. (The fact that Lucas did not write this movie was probably a very good thing.) By far the most important element in the writing is the lesson being taught. And Star Wars teaches facile, immature, and often downright sucky lessons.

 

I do not have the time or patience to rehash all seven full-length movies to analyze them for the lessons they teach. It is enough to note that Darth Vader, an utterly unrepentant mass murderer who willingly slaughtered children seeking his protection and then later was complicit in destroying an entire planet, killing millions  -- not to achieve some military objective, but simply to cause suffering to a witness -- this same character is redeemed at his death. How? Because he saved his son from the trap that he himself had set.

 

And thus we must say that, you know, underneath his gruff exterior, Anakin Skywalker really wasn't a bad guy after all.

 

This would be repulsive if it were no so utterly absurd.

 

So now we have Darth Vader's literal and spiritual grandson doing is level best to follow in his ancestor's very footsteps. The character (I don't even remember his name -- such was the deep impression he left on my psyche) decides that what he really needs to do is to murder his heroic father in order to set himself free from his annoying impulses toward goodness, actively seeking to stamp out any vestige of goodness in his soul.

 

(We Mormons actually have a term for such an individual. We call him Perdition and a son thereof.)

 

Ignore for the moment that this is not the way goodness and evil work, which means we are watching the interactions not of human beings, but of creations of purest fiction. What is this teaching us? What is the lesson we are supposed to learn here?

What the heck sense does it even make that a son would say, "You know, I really don't want to, but I have to murder my loving father so I can become a dark Sith lord" or whatever his goal was?

 

There were other things I disliked about the movie, as well as some things I liked, but the above was the defining feature of the movie for me. Of course, this plot means that they killed off Han, the most interesting and sympathetic character in the entire movie series. They also did a hatchet job on the second-most-beloved character, Han's wife Leia, who might have been presented as a matriarch enjoying the fruits of her lifelong labors while she continued the struggle against tyranny and the Democratic Party. Instead, she was presented in an utterly masculine context; were her character male and treated in a similar manner, I would have said the character had been emasculated. Is there such a term as "ex-feminated"? That was Leia. I was afraid that Leia might actually kiss her husband, which would have been kind of disgusting. (No worries there, though. Such a thing might have injected a bit of actual human emotion into the film, and J. J. Abrams would not stand for that.)

 

From a purely entertainment standpoint, perhaps the most damning aspect was that I had to fight against falling asleep in the middle of the film. It was that boring. There was plenty of action and garbage flying around the screen; looks like Transformers has permanently shifted film visuals, and much for the worse. But people stay awake and engaged for characters, not for things. When your most engaging new character is a spherical robot, that says something about the franchise. Though if we're honest, that really is not that much different from the original Star Wars in 1977.

 

I could write more, but I'm exhausted and need to get to bed. Maybe next week I will wish I had written something else about it, and maybe I'll add to this review or rewrite it or something. Probably not; Star Wars has never taken up all that much space in my mind, and this disaster of a movie has ensured it will take up even less from now on.

 

TL;DR SUMMARY: I didn't like it.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Vort

[JojoBag]

I saw part of it.  I highly recommend it as a sleep aid for insomnia.

[kapikui]

Can't argue much with your description of EP VIII.  I actually enjoyed it, but I'm not entirely sure that I didn't just watch EP IV.  

 

One thing you have to understand about Star Wars is that is not written from the Judaeo-Christian viewpoint, but is lifted rather directly from the typical Greek play in which things like a single act redeeming an evil character are commonplace.  It's basically a different culture and religion.  

[Anddenex]

I am with kapikui.  I enjoyed the show, but slightly disappointed in the lack of originality of episode VII (or was it episode IV).  The hero changed from male to female (Luke to Rey).  The main Sith is an apprentice of a Master Sith. The rebels and the empire (First Order).  Battle Station -- Battle Planet.  Destroy Battle Planet just before it destroys rebel base (planet).  

 

Overall, I enjoyed the movie as I was going to see a movie for entertainment.  Never felt the urge to fall asleep.  Further evidence, how a movie can be enlightening for some, while others, not so much.

[mirkwood]

I enjoyed the movie.  I go to movies for brain candy.  SW VII is brain candy.

 

 

Side note, the trailer for the next Star Trek was played.  That is a movie I am really looking forward to.  I like both series, but ST edges SW.

Edited December 27, 2015 by mirkwood

[Guest MormonGator]

I enjoyed the movie.  I go to movies for brain candy.  SW VII is brain candy.

 I thought it was more like a brain parasite. Hated it. 

[bytebear]

You sound like the brother of the prodigal son, jealous that the son was redeemed with forgiveness that you didn't think he deserved.  Sounds to me, the lessons of Star Wars are deeper than you think.

[Just_A_Guy]

You sound like the brother of the prodigal son, jealous that the son was redeemed with forgiveness that you didn't think he deserved. Sounds to me, the lessons of Star Wars are deeper than you think.

Deathbed repentance--and thereby gaining a greater reward than that received by the consistently faithful (how many of Alderaan's residents were able to come back as force ghosts?)--has no place either in the parable of the prodigal son or in the gospel as a whole.

But, to the larger question: Star Wars never did a whole lot for me, so meh. (Then again, I thought Episode I wasn't half-bad and Jar Jar Binks at least mildly funny, so what do I know?)

Edited December 28, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[bytebear]

And Episode VII was a retelling of Episode IV but with a twist in the nature of the antagonist.  Darth Vader and the Empire were competent and ruthless.  The First Order and Keelo Ren were inept, amateurish and immature.  That was obviously by design, and will likely be explored in future movies.   But the message of the Dark vs Light side is really the message of love vs hate, and that hate is very powerful and easy to use, (and it was interesting that the female protagonist won the battle on the emotion of hate), so it will be interesting to see how they explore these themes. 

 

And, by the way, Lucas' first Star Wars (Episode IV) was a rehash of this movie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Fortress

and all the space battles were lifted directly from WWII dogfight footage, frame by frame.

And Lucas consulted "Power of Myth" author Joseph Campbell on how to weave his story with mythical cues.

[bytebear]

Deathbed repentance--and thereby gaining a greater reward than that received by the consistently faithful (how many of Alderaan's residents were able to come back as force ghosts?)--has no place either in the parable of the prodigal son or in the gospel as a whole.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/luke/15.29-32?lang=eng

 

We don't know the spiritual reward of Alderaan's residents any more than the people who the prodigal son wronged, but if you consider the faithful  brother to Yoda or Obi-Wan, then their rewards were equal.  The parallels are staggering.

[bytebear]

Also, Vader was driven by his anger of losing his wife.  Rey (the girl) was driven to use the force based on her anger of having her friend attacked (and possibly killed) by Keelo Ren.  Ren was just a bratty kid who was rebelling against his parents.  No real deep anger or betrayal for him, which is why he was portrayed as having a strong natural affinity toward the Force, but not a real control or power.

[Just_A_Guy]

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/luke/15.29-32?lang=eng

We don't know the spiritual reward of Alderaan's residents any more than the people who the prodigal son wronged, but if you consider the faithful brother to Yoda or Obi-Wan, then their rewards were equal. The parallels are staggering.

Not really. The younger brother was welcomed back into the father's household, but his inheritance was gone. All that the father had left, was now reserved for the faithful son (v. 31). The elder son certainly had a duty to extend compassion and fellowship and love to his brother--a duty at which he failed miserably--but the rewards were not equal. "In my Father's house are many mansions", and "even as one star different from another in glory", and all that. Edited December 28, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[Just_A_Guy]

Also, Vader was driven by his anger of losing his wife..

I know that's the takeaway we are supposed to have, but I don't see it. The Anakin Skywalker of episodes 2 and 3 was a conceited, self-absorbed, grasping twit; and could have been wooed by Palpatine with relative ease even if he'd never met Padme.

And, Padme was still alive when Anakin killed the younglings.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[bytebear]

Not really. The younger brother was welcomed back into the father's household, but his inheritance was gone. All that the father had left, was now reserved for the faithful son (v. 31). The elder son certainly had a duty to extend compassion and fellowship and love to his brother--a duty at which he failed miserably--but the rewards were not equal. "In my Father's house are many mansions", and "even as one star different from another in glory", and all that.

 

v 31: And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

 

This tells me that the Father is giving his Son all that he has, similar to how we will inherit all that God has.  So, I don't see his inheritance as less than it would have been.

[Vort]

You sound like the brother of the prodigal son, jealous that the son was redeemed with forgiveness that you didn't think he deserved.  Sounds to me, the lessons of Star Wars are deeper than you think.

 

Um...yeah. That's probably it.

 

v 31: And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

 

This tells me that the Father is giving his Son all that he has, similar to how we will inherit all that God has.  So, I don't see his inheritance as less than it would have been.

 

Did you think that that father in v. 31 was speaking to the prodigal and not to the faithful son?

[bytebear]

 

Did you think that that father in v. 31 was speaking to the prodigal and not to the faithful son?

 

I don't know that it matters.  If it is a parable of God's inheritance, He gives everything to all his children.  Our salvation is not dependent on another's salvation, and we don't lose when they win.

[Just_A_Guy]

v 31: And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

This tells me that the Father is giving his Son all that he has, similar to how we will inherit all that God has. So, I don't see his inheritance as less than it would have been.

The thing is, parables use a real-world application to demonstrate an eternal principle. A mortal father cannot create a new inheritance ex nilhilo for a child who has squandered his first inheritance--any new inheritance diminishes that of the faithful child.

If you want to say that the issue of a new inheritance for the prodigal, and its relative size compared to his brother's, is beyond the scope of the parable--all right, then. But you can't make that argument and simultaneously suggest that the parable promses a Hitler who repents in the bunker, that he may obtain an exaltation on par with Abraham. All you can really say is a) what happens to Hitler isn't any of my business, b) that I need to make sure my own obedience isn't really just ego dressed up as piety, and c) we have a Father who loves all of us.

Our salvation is not dependent on another's salvation, and we don't lose when they win.

But to suggest that God would not or could not give the deathbed-penitent an inferior reward, is basically to make that exact argument. If Hitler spends a thousand years in Hell followed by sore repentance and salvation in the Telestial Kingdom, is he being cheated or is his salvation diminished merely because Abraham happened to receive a Celestial glory? Edited December 28, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[bytebear]

Well, the argument was whether Vader was worthy of being equal to Yoda.  I think clearly the parable of Star Wars, says yes. And barring covenants (which can be made postumously via proxy), there is nothing that says otherwise doctrinally (IMHO)

[The Folk Prophet]

How do we know Vader was equal to Yoda? Just because whatever power allowed him to appear as a ghost and attain some level of peace was the case does not mean that he became equal to Yoda in all the other unknown mythological afterlife ways.

[Just_A_Guy]

Well, the argument was whether Vader was worthy of being equal to Yoda.  I think clearly the parable of Star Wars, says yes.

Which is why Star Wars is morally bankrupt. :-)

[bytebear]

To answer the question, Anakin Skywalker apppeared with Yoda and Obi-wan in their "glorified" state.  Vader was dead, and Skywalker was restored (i.e. saved).

 

And I don't think it's morally bankrupt at all.  Repentance and forgiveness are not prohibited by time or past acts (save denying the Holy Ghost.  Mark 3:28-29).  I believe there is a lot of discussion on whether Hitler could be saved.  I do find it interesting that his temple work was done, and never revoked.  I believe this follows this commandment: 
 

• Doctrine and Covenants 64:10

  10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

So, it is required that we forgive all men, and provide all opportunity for their forgiveness and salvation from the Lord.

Edited December 28, 2015 by bytebear

[priesthoodpower]

For a 2hr movie it seemed to go by quick so I guess you could say I didn't fall asleep or was bored.

 

Eight of my 14 yr old sunday school youth class members saw it and absolutely loved it.

[EarlJibbs]

In the end I really enjoyed it and will happily shove money down Disney's throat for more.

 

Parts that bugged me: get more new characters! Sure it was nostalgic to see the same fish guy (General Ackbar) in the exact same setting but I could have just watched the older movie for that. Same with Nien Nunb (another fish looking guy). 

 

I actually felt bad for Kylo Ren that he, a trained sith, was beaten by someone so new to the force. Sure Rey knew how to fight, but what did she really know about the force? She was an infant, yet took Kylo to town. I don't mind at all that she kicked some but, but it just didnt seem she was ready for an all out battle like that. 

[NeedleinA]

Watched it opening night and two more times since. Considering all the other alternative movie garbage out there, I'll take Star Wars with some story flaws any day! 

[Connie]

I don’t have super great expectations when it comes to Star Wars movies. I just need to see some Jedi kicking butt. The fact that it was a girl this time, and she was wailing on a whiny, wannabe-sith-lord, yeah, I’m good.

 

I’m enjoying reading everyone’s commentary and conversation, though. Very entertaining.