is being overweight a sin?

[unixknight]

That made my day. 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

I should mention I'm barely 5'08 and maybe 165 pound soaking wet. Is being too thin a sin? 

When I graduated from high school, I weighed 165 pounds. I was just a bit over 6'4".

Don't worry. I have since repented. And how.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Vort

[Ironhold]

I have an abnormally hard, dense, thick, and bulky bone structure. This means that I'm pretty stocky and am basically built like a bear. I'd be a good 6'2 or so if I could stand up straight, but I have a lingering back injury that never healed right; my family didn't believe that I'd hurt myself and so kept pushing me until I literally could no longer walk. (If I can ever get the money together I'm going to see a chiropractor in order to try and figure out just how much damage was done.)

When I spoke with the US Army recruiters at one point, they told me that due to my measurements, the most I could weigh was 220 pounds. 

However, even back when I was doing a hardcore combination of weight training and water aerobics, I never went below 260. This was my body's natural floor, and for every pound of fat I lost past this point I gained back a pound of muscle mass. I was pretty much a titan at this point, such that I once pushed around a stalled Buick like a lawnmower and could dead-lift heavy pieces of furniture that normally would have required two or more individuals to move. But because I was still 40 pounds over the Army's standard, people still regarded me as being "fat". 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

I have an abnormally hard, dense, thick, and bulky bone structure.

Does that include your skull?   

JOKING.  

I couldn't help it.  You just hung the meatball out there for me. You know people were thinking it.

[omegaseamaster75]

4 hours ago, unixknight said:

Ah, but you are, and you have.  These are your own words:

"Being obese I think is the sin. With a broad brush I will put obesity in the same category as alcoholism, and porn addiction."

So unless my weight can be explained by some sort of medical or emotional factor, I'm sinning and in the same category as an alcoholic or a porn addict, according to what you've said.  Nevermind how much I actually eat, or the type of food I eat, or my activity level.  I'm fat and therefore sinning because of it.  This is what you said.  With absolutely no other data of any kind about a person, you're prepared to categorize them as an addict, and a sinful one at that. 

To be clear, the discussion about BMI and such was separate from my issue with what you said.

Now, I think everybody can agree that our body is a temple and as such we should be good stewards of it and take care of it.  That's the entire point of the Word of Wisdom.  That said, it doesn't give any of us the right to decide that a person who struggles with that is a sinner.  That's unfair, it's presumptuous, and it's intellectually lazy. 

Full disclosure, since I brought up my own weight earlier.  This is me testing my shoes/stilts for my Space Marine Power Armor build.

 

It is difficult to have a conversation with someone automatically dismisses my thoughts as irrelevant and calls me names.

I said in my initial post which you were helpful enough to quote again, and I highlighted the important part. That I was using a very broad brush when I categorized obesity as sin. Frankly I don't care how much you eat or your level of activity. The OP asked a question and I voiced my opinion. You don't like what you hear and proceed to call names and jump on me.

I'll take it one step further. As LDS we don't drink, smoke, do drugs, or have sex outside of marriage. Societies self medications have been taken away from us and for good reason. Look around your ward.....how are they self medicating?  You get three guesses but I think that you will only need one.

[Blackmarch]

6 hours ago, Traveler said:

I realize that there are some sins that are more spiritual damaging than others.  I do not ask this question to argue over what may be a much worse sin.  It is my understanding that if we know that something is good and we do not do it - that it is a sin (James 4:17).  Is it good to maintain a healthy body by keeping our weight disciplined and under control by covenant?  Should striving for one's ideal weight be inclusive in our personal covenant with G-d - or should it not be?

 

The Traveler

not in itself. I'd imagine that if there is anything right or wrong it would deal with how you treat your body.

[unixknight]

4 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

It is difficult to have a conversation with someone automatically dismisses my thoughts as irrelevant and calls me names.

I said in my initial post which you were helpful enough to quote again, and I highlighted the important part. That I was using a very broad brush when I categorized obesity as sin. Frankly I don't care how much you eat or your level of activity. The OP asked a question and I voiced my opinion. You don't like what you hear and proceed to call names and jump on me.

I'll take it one step further. As LDS we don't drink, smoke, do drugs, or have sex outside of marriage. Societies self medications have been taken away from us and for good reason. Look around your ward.....how are they self medicating?  You get three guesses but I think that you will only need one.

I wouldn't have a conversation with someone who was calling me names either.  Luckily, nobody's called you any names here, so I don't know why you'd say that.  As for dismissing your thoughts as irrelevant... Where is that coming from?  I presented counter arguments addressed to your comments.  If they were irrelevant, why would I have addressed them?

As for jumping on you... yep, guilty as charged.  I don't like being judged.  It reminded me of someone I once knew... She was a 90 lb Chinese lady who co-owned a company I was working for.  She said all fat people had to do was push back from the table.  Easy.  I almost laughed in her face because those words were so breathtakingly ignorant.  How could she possibly know what it is to struggle with weight?  She couldn't.  So for her to say something like that was ridiculous.

I wouldn't know how most of the people in my ward self medicate because I don't make an effort to analyze them.  Some people eat.  Some drink.  Some gamble.  Some go shopping.  Some watch porn.  I don't make it my business to know how particular people cope.

I'm really serious about the name calling thing.  I reviewed my posts to be sure but as a rule I never call people names on forums because I find that sort of behavior childish and counterproductive.  I did say that to oversimplify the issue of obesity was to be intellectually lazy, but I was talking about the act, not calling you anything.

[Guest MormonGator]

19 minutes ago, unixknight said:

 

I'm really serious about the name calling thing.  I reviewed my posts to be sure but as a rule I never call people names on forums because I find that sort of behavior childish and counterproductive.  I did say that to oversimplify the issue of obesity was to be intellectually lazy, but I was talking about the act, not calling you anything.

In all fairness to Unix, I don't think he would call names. He's not "the type". Even when him and I have disagreed he's never once sunk to that level. He's more polite than me (not that that's hard). In my time here only one person here has, so it's not something you see often here. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by MormonGator

[classylady]

Not answering any post in particular, but just several thoughts. Is being judgmental when seeing an overweight person just as "sinful" as being overweight? Is going to the gym daily for several hours being sinful because one is overly concerned about one's weight and body image/vanity? Is being too thin just as sinful as being overweight? My feeling on all this is: "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerst not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Edited March 4, 2016 by classylady

[Guest MormonGator]

14 minutes ago, classylady said:

Not answering any post in particular, but just several thoughts. Is being judgmental when seeing an overweight person just as "sinful" as being overweight? Is going to the gym daily for several hours being sinful because one is overly concerned about one's weight and body image/vanity? Is being too thin just as sinful as being overweight? My feeling on all this is: "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerst not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

I'm starting a slow clap for this. Class lady, you are awesome. 

[Guest]

I'm slow clapping because my big fat arms are just. . . . so . . . . . heavy . . . . . . 

[David13]

Unixknight

I will not say you are overweight, nor obese.  But I will say you do not look like you have missed a meal lately.

And I will say are you sure that pvc is going to support your weight very much?  What's the weight rating on that.  I would have gone a little sturdier on the frame.

And I will say I don't know why some men/boys don't have more sensible toys, like guns and motorcycles.  But we boys do like to play with our toys.  And it looks like your kids will enjoy all that, too.

And Eowyn doesn't have to start in here at all.  I'm sure she has her woman/girl toys.  Maybe dolls or something.

I remember many years ago a lady showing me her newest doll.  $500.00 way back then.  Made in Germany in the 1880s or something.  She whispered to me, Mr (dc), don't tell my husband.

dc

[unixknight]

1 hour ago, David13 said:

Unixknight

I will not say you are overweight, nor obese.  But I will say you do not look like you have missed a meal lately.

And I will say are you sure that pvc is going to support your weight very much?  What's the weight rating on that.  I would have gone a little sturdier on the frame.

That's fair, thanks.

Actually I had the same misgivings about the PVC at first, but my son is about to graduate college with a degree in structural engineering, so I ran the stilt design past him and had him run the numbers before I even built it.  The last thing I need is a broken ankle.  Turns out, PVC pipe is ridiculously strong in compression the long way, and apparently these stilts could have been used as jackstands.  The only thing I have to be careful of is not to put sideways force on them, but it isn't like I'm going to be doing any gymnastics or running.

[Maureen]

8 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

It is difficult to have a conversation with someone automatically dismisses my thoughts as irrelevant and calls me names....

I have to agree with unixknight on this one. I've re-read all his posts. Could you point out where he's called you names?

M.

[zil]

10 hours ago, David13 said:

And I will say I don't know why some men/boys don't have more sensible toys, like guns and motorcycles.  But we boys do like to play with our toys.  And it looks like your kids will enjoy all that, too.

And Eowyn doesn't have to start in here at all.  I'm sure she has her woman/girl toys.  Maybe dolls or something.

Pffffff.  I outgrew dolls before twelve, I'm sure.  Anyway, I preferred GI Joe and Jungle Jim (cuz they had muscles and weapons, Ken was a wimp, and Barbie wasn't nearly as nice to look at, to me).  Since when are guns (have two) and motorcycles (if I had funds to waste, I'd get one - bullet bike for me, not that there's anything wrong with other designs) only for men/boys?  My other toys are usually books, pens, paper, canvas, paint, brushes, a new laptop now and then (currently Alienware - his eyes glow ), the occasional Lego set, and I'm thinking I might "need" a dashcam...

But you guys enjoy your PVC, I don't feel any particular need for that....

(OK, I'll confess that I still like stuffed animals, but two were gifts from my husband, and one was swapped to save my friend from being stuck with a lame white-elephant gift.)

[Just_A_Guy]

22 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

The short answer is yes, that said having a few extra lbs comes with age and sedentary lifestyle. Being obese I think is the sin. With a broad brush I will put obesity in the same category as alcoholism, and porn addiction.  

 

Excepting of course medical conditions.

 

I am inclined to agree with you in theory, though not in all of your application.  We were sent to this earth to have life, and to have it abundantly.  I currently weigh over 300 pounds.  I can't play with my kids the way I would like--at least, not for any length of time.  I can't bond with my Elders' quorum playing football or other sports.  I can't keep up with my Scouts on hikes.  If I don't get things under control, in 20-30 years my opportunities for missionary service will be severely limited.  

To the extent that I am not taking full advantage of the opportunities for joy and for service that my Heavenly Father wants me to have--well, "sin" may be a loaded term; but I'm certainly not pleasing Him.  That said, I don't put it in the same category of alcohol (which involves the voluntary cession of my intellectual/emotional/moral faculties) or porn use (which trifles with intensely sacred powers and has devastating consequences for respect for women generally and for romantic relationships in particular).

I realize this is a sensitive topic, but as for me:  if you tell me I'm sinning because of my weight--yeah, I'll own that.

[unixknight]

@Just_A_Guy I don't fully agree, but you said that well and you know what it's like.  Your post makes a lot of sense.  I think the only caveat I'd attach to it is that it's a significant enough struggle that I'd be very hesitant to call it sinning, only because to sin is to deliberately and willfully disobey Heavenly Father, and very few people ask to be in a physical state that restricts our ability to live life abundantly.

(run-on sentences FTW)

Edited March 4, 2016 by unixknight

[omegaseamaster75]

14 hours ago, unixknight said:

I'm really serious about the name calling thing.  I reviewed my posts to be sure but as a rule I never call people names on forums because I find that sort of behavior childish and counterproductive.  I did say that to oversimplify the issue of obesity was to be intellectually lazy, but I was talking about the act, not calling you anything.

Calling someone intellectually lazy is unbecoming. You don't know me or how well read I am.

For the record I said Obesity was the sin not carrying around a few extra lbs.  In response to Literate Parakeet I also said medical conditions excepted. Her condition/ issues (I hate to use that word) fall into this category and therefore falls outside of the realm of sin in this instance

You have also taken my posts to heart when I have been very upfront about painting the "sin" which I feel like I now have to put in quotation marks with a very broad brush. Clearly I have stated that it does not rise to the level of sin for some as it does for others. You struggle with your weight and that's fine. I guess I need to be more specific. That is my fault.

 

Edited March 4, 2016 by omegaseamaster75

[unixknight]

7 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Calling someone intellectually lazy is unbecoming. You don't know me or how well read I am.

Again, I didn't call you intellectually lazy, but it does seem that you're invested in thinking I did.  I do believe your philosophy on this matter is oversimplified and thus intellectually lazy, and I've been very clear about that.  I would hope you know the difference between calling a person a name, and just applying a term to something they said. 

[omegaseamaster75]

It comes off exactly the same way.

 

Look I saw your picture and I would not put you in the "sinning" category. I am no one to judge I could lose 10-15lbs myself.

 

Ever see the show "My 600lb life" I put those individuals in the sinning category, but not all of them....there are some deep emotional issues that have caused them to be in the state that they are. Some of them just like to eat.

 

Again with a very, very broad brush. God has given us a temple and many of us (not all of us) are free from medical and psychological issues that cause us carry around an excessive (excessive can mean different things to different people) amount of weight. If we are not taking care of our temple we are not respecting the gift that God has given us. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by omegaseamaster75

[unixknight]

@omegaseamaster75 I don't know what to tell you, bro.  I think I've clarified myself as far as I can so if it still comes across to you that way then my guess is that it's your preference.  It's clear that I never had any intention of name calling so at this point we've taken that swizzling match as far as it's gonna go.

Yes, I've seen my 600lb. life and it's heartbreaking.  I think these people have caused enough ruin to themselves and made their own lives so miserable that at this point the question of it being sinful has passed into irrelevance.  I think I know what you're getting at, and I understand, so if that's an example of sin it's one where the consequences are physical and immediate.  I'm not qualified to make that judgement, only feel compassion.

The real underlying problem is that education about nutrition in our culture is pathetic at best.  We're encouraged to eat fat-free food when in reality the overabundance of carbohydrates in food, especially cheap food, is what's pushing us culturally into obesity, heart disease, diabetes and joint pain.  People think that switching to fat free yogurt is a healthy choice when all that does is swap fat for carbs to keep flavor, and the carbs are actually worse.  (Again, I strongly recommend that book I linked to above.) 

So to some extent a lot of people are getting larger and don't know why or what to do about it.  To me, that isn't sin it's ignorance.  The crime is that that ignorance is still being pushed on us.  The food pyramid the USDA puts out there is upside-down.  It encourages us to eat too much of the stuff that makes us fatter and not enough of the stuff that keeps us satisfied for longer. 

I've been applying the lessons I've learned about nutrition and it really is helping.  I'm not as heavy as I once was. 

[Vort]

29 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Calling someone intellectually lazy is unbecoming. You don't know me or how well read I am.

Just responding to this narrow point:

Intellectual laziness has almost nothing to do with being well-read. An unlettered, even illiterate, man can be rigorously intellectually honest, and a highly read man can certainly be intellectually lazy. Too often, this is just what I find.

[Traveler]

It is my opinion that few things when isolated by themselves are either good or evil.  In life we experience many physical things which in and of themselves may not be a concern but when coupled with other things begin to establish trends.   We are told that our bodies are the temple of G-d and it is my personal belief that this concept is tightly coupled with the covenant and doctrine of stewardship.  A stewardship that I believe we will have the opportunity to make an account of before our G-d that extended this gift to us.  I believe the parable of the talents is very applicable and applies to all our stewardship responsibilities.

 

Our goal is to “come unto Christ”.  Much of our efforts to be “Christ like” will involve in making us an example to others.  It is interesting to me how often our covenants and blessings are coupled to physical health and wellness with such promises of “walk and not be weary – run and not faint”.  Many see the word of wisdom as a physical covenant – but there is a spiritual element as well.

 

I believe, from my personal experiences that being a wise steward of our physical body will produce an abundance of spiritual fruits as well.  Our capacity for service is greatly enhanced by our physical preparations.   It is my experience that much of the joy of life comes through balance of the spiritual with the physical.  I love being in nature and find that a couple of hours skiing in the cold of the mountains in deep powder to be spiritually renewing.  Or a fresh summer morning cycling up and down hills taking in all the sights, sounds, smells and feel of creation that surrounds us.   But these are solitary moments of joy. 

 

There are also the rewards of service helping a neighbor move and being able to provide sweat when and where needed – being able to trek for long hours into the wilderness helping search for a lost child (or adult).  I was surprised how physically exhausting serving as a missionary was while walking or riding a bicycle or rolling up sleeves to be of service to someone in need.

 

But there are other advantages to living a disciplined healthy life – such as self-esteem and strength to overcome discouragement.  I have discovered that discipline in diet and exercise coupled with disciplined finances is key and essential to lasting joy and happiness in life both as an individual – as a couple in marriage and intimacy, as a family, as a community (ward or secular community), as a society and as a nation and people.

 

The first step in discipline is repentance.   I personally believe that the attitude of repentance is more than just overcoming evil and sin but a means of improving, completing and perfecting the experience of life.  G-d has given us life that we might have joy – and it is my experience that there is a limit to worldly joy which becomes artificial without discipline.  And that the first step in discipline (repentance) is to discipline ourselves physically – or as some would say to subject that which is physical to that which is spiritual.

 

Is being overweight a sin?  I do not think I can answer that – but I can promise everyone reading this post and this thread – that if they discipline their diet and they discipline their activity (also their finances) – that they will reap spiritual rewards and a significant increase of joy in their lives.  And that a diet for taste without discipline and activity seeking ease and also lacking discipline and also finances motivated by desire rather than discipline and service – will without question lead to a life of sin and a great deal of unhappiness.

 

The Traveler

[David13]

2 hours ago, zil said:

P)   "only for men/boys?" )

I never said only for boys.

dc

[David13]

11 hours ago, unixknight said:

That's fair, thanks.

Actually I had the same misgivings about the PVC at first, but my son is about to graduate college with a degree in structural engineering, so I ran the stilt design past him and had him run the numbers before I even built it.  The last thing I need is a broken ankle.  Turns out, PVC pipe is ridiculously strong in compression the long way, and apparently these stilts could have been used as jackstands.  The only thing I have to be careful of is not to put sideways force on them, but it isn't like I'm going to be doing any gymnastics or running.

 My real concern was the lateral force.  Which could break the joints and then jeopardize the entire structure.  You will have lateral force.  For one thing, you will be top heavy which will cause lateral force just standing still.  But any movement ...

dc