Rough Stone Rolling

[An Investigator]

Was just wondering if anyone had read the book and what they thought about it?   I'm considering buying it (I did quite a bit of church history reading before joining the Church, not all of it flattering).

[Guest MormonGator]

I've read it multiple times. If you are expecting perfection from Smith, you will be disappointed. If you can :: gasp :: understand that he was a mortal man complete with flaws you will love the book. I read it too right around the time I joined the church. 

[NeedleinA]

8 minutes ago, An Investigator said:

Was just wondering if anyone had read the book and what they thought about it?   I'm considering buying it (I did quite a bit of church history reading before joining the Church, not all of it flattering).

I believe at least @MormonGator and @Carborendum have. On my list to read still.  Remember, if you have questions ask away. Like before we are great little resources.

[NeedleinA]

6 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

If you are expecting perfection from Smith, you will be disappointed. If you can :: gasp :: understand that he was a mortal man complete with flaws you will love the book.

Yep, mortal man with human flaws. Not perfect...just like the rest of us, but still chosen to do a great work. 

On 7/23/2016 at 4:16 PM, NeedleinA said:

Take the very beginning of D&C, Section 1, the Lord himself says:

1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, saith the voice of him who dwells on high,...
4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.
24 Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding. 
25 And inasmuch as they erred it might be made known;
26 And inasmuch as they sought wisdom they might be instructed;
27 And inasmuch as they sinned they might be chastened, that they might repent;
28 And inasmuch as they were humble they might be made strong, and blessed from on high, and receive knowledge from time to time.

The Lord choose his disciples, he knew they had weakness, would error, would sin, BUT was willing to work with them, correct them and teach them so that at some point they "might (eventually) come to (an) understanding". 

Just a little comment I left the other day on a different thread, but seems to apply here too.

[An Investigator]

No questions thanks.. I have no doubt that Joseph Smith was a prophet and also a man with flaws.   I thought this might strengthen my testimony,  i borrowed the Church history Dvd out the library,  and it good (I always end up crying watching Church dvds) but looking for something a bit more in depth due to what I've read before.

[Guest MormonGator]

30 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Yep, mortal man with human flaws. Not perfect...just like the rest of us, but still chosen to do a great work. 

 

Yup, totally agree. Bushman comments that Smith Jr drank tea, beer and occasionally smoked cigars. I've seen people who simply can't handle this and refuse to believe it. I'm thinking "If this effects your faith, it isn't that strong to begin with." It's not an insult against Smith, it's one of those pesky historical facts. And yes, I've met people from all walks of life who can't handle history that doesn't fit their beliefs or biases. 

Bushman has stated that he has met LDS who refuse to read the book or can't handle it what it contains. He's gotten more acclaim from non-members who just enjoy reading biographies. It goes into detail about the prophets background, genealogy, you name it.  It's a masterfully written book. Huge, huge respect for Bushman. 

Edited July 27, 2016 by MormonGator

[NeuroTypical]

There are not many things that believers and church critics agree about, but apparently everyone likes this book and finds it full of important things to know.

[Backroads]

I read it about three years ago. Loved it.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, Backroads said:

I read it about three years ago. Loved it.

Have you read American Crucifixion? 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

I believe at least @MormonGator and @Carborendum have. On my list to read still.  Remember, if you have questions ask away. Like before we are great little resources.

Actually, I've never read it.  But I guess I'd better do it.  I'm now feeling the same motivation to read this book as I did about learning Korean, martial arts, and buying a gun.

[NeedleinA]

4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Actually, I've never read it.  But I guess I'd better do it.  I'm now feeling the same motivation to read this book as I did about learning Korean, martial arts, and buying a gun.

I guess you have an out, you are "Rough Rolling Stone", not "Rough Stone Rolling"... my bad

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

I guess you have an out, you are "Rough Rolling Stone", not "Rough Stone Rolling"... my bad

Yeah, I switched the wording for similar reasons why I purposefully misspelled my moniker.

[tesuji]

17 hours ago, An Investigator said:

Was just wondering if anyone had read the book and what they thought about it?   I'm considering buying it (I did quite a bit of church history reading before joining the Church, not all of it flattering).

I love the book RSR, but I don't think of it as a book for brand new members.

The church is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet. However, sometimes new members have their faith shaken when the learn that the church and its prophets aren't perfect. Only Jesus was perfect. But he uses us imperfect people to do his work. And he uses the church to teach us to become more perfect.

Also, some new members have trouble accepting Joseph Smith's polygamy, because it is so different from their own cultural background.

Polygamy is in the Bible; for example Abraham did it. Joseph Smith did polygamy because God commanded him to. It's an example to us of submitting to God even when he asks us to do something we don't understand at the time.

Joesph Smith was amazing. I love to read his words. It's clear to me that he was a prophet, and I feel the Holy Spirit telling me this when I read Joseph's words.

I recommend the RSR book whenever you feel ready. But you might want to read the church books such as Truth Restored first.  The church institute manuals are also great for getting more knowledge. And carefully read the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants, to see what a prophet Joseph was. To get a strong testimony of that first.

A final note: The RSR book was written by a historian. He is trying to tell the facts. It is not necessarily trying to build your faith. So be aware of the tone and the purpose of the book when you read it.

Edited July 28, 2016 by tesuji

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, tesuji said:

A final note: The RSR book was written by a historian. He is trying to tell the facts. It is not necessarily trying to build your faith. So be aware of the tone and the purpose of the book when you read it.

Facts and faith can and should go together just fine. 

[omegaseamaster75]

RSR is a great book, Bushman is a believer and participated in the writing of the essays that the church released regarding priesthood for blacks and polygamy 

[NeedleinA]

59 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Bushman is a believer 

"I have never wandered even for a few months from church activity. I have held many positions in our basically lay-run church from scoutmaster to bishop, stake president, and patriarch."

Mormon Scholars Testify:  Richard Lyman Bushman

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

"I have never wandered even for a few months from church activity. I have held many positions in our basically lay-run church from scoutmaster to bishop, stake president, and patriarch."

Mormon Scholars Testify:  Richard Lyman Bushman

Bushman will bother the radically orthodox for not being orthodox enough and he'll bother the LDS liberals for not being liberal enough. 

in other words, he's dead on accurate and it's a great book. 

[Connie]

You might be interested in the discussion thread from the book club forum about this book. Here's a linky (hope it works).

 

[tesuji]

17 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Have you read American Crucifixion? 

Oh, please, no. I read this book. It a sensationalist book written by a journalist who has no scholarly in background in Mormons, religion or history. Avoid. It will give you a distorted, unfavorable, and unfair view of Joseph Smith and Mormonism. 

At the minimum, read RSR first. Then you can spot the distortions and glaring omissions in AC better. But second rate histories like AC are a dime a dozen, whereas RSR stands alone as an excellent "real" history written by an eminent, believing, but analytical Mormon historian.

Edited July 28, 2016 by tesuji

[tesuji]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Actually, I've never read it.  But I guess I'd better do it.  I'm now feeling the same motivation to read this book as I did about learning Korean, martial arts, and buying a gun.

Yes, it is one of the most worthwhile books I've read about Mormons, outside church publications.

I hesitate to recommend it for new members, as I have said above. But it's worth owning and reading, for Mormons who want depth beyond the usual Sunday School level of history. It's the kind of book that's worth re-reading over the years.

Edited July 28, 2016 by tesuji

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, tesuji said:

Oh, please, no. I read this book. It a sensationalist book written by a journalist who has no scholarly in background in Mormons, religion or history. Avoid. It will give you a distorted, unfavorable, and unfair view of Joseph Smith and Mormonism. 

At the minimum, read RSR first. But second rate histories like AC are a dime a dozen. RSR stands alone as an excellent "real" history written by an eminent, believing, but analytical Mormon historian.

I've read it twice. In order to make up your own mind you really do need to read whatever you can. After all, Bushman himself read Brodie's famous book. 

[An Investigator]

Thanks for the advice, I have bought the book anyway, so I will let you know what I think when I have read it.    

7 hours ago, tesuji said:

I love the book RSR, but I don't think of it as a book for brand new members.

The church is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet. However, sometimes new members have their faith shaken when the learn that the church and its prophets aren't perfect. Only Jesus was perfect. But he uses us imperfect people to do his work. And he uses the church to teach us to become more perfect.

Also, some new members have trouble accepting Joseph Smith's polygamy, because it is so different from their own cultural background.

Polygamy is in the Bible; for example Abraham did it. Joseph Smith did polygamy because God commanded him to. It's an example to us of submitting to God even when he asks us to do something we don't understand at the time.

Joesph Smith was amazing. I love to read his words. It's clear to me that he was a prophet, and I feel the Holy Spirit telling me this when I read Joseph's words.

I recommend the RSR book whenever you feel ready. But you might want to read the church books such as Truth Restored first.  The church institute manuals are also great for getting more knowledge. And carefully read the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants, to see what a prophet Joseph was. To get a strong testimony of that first.

A final note: The RSR book was written by a historian. He is trying to tell the facts. It is not necessarily trying to build your faith. So be aware of the tone and the purpose of the book when you read it.

Thank you also for your concern but I'm a grown women with a degree who is getting a little annoyed at everyone in the Church treating me like a child.   Ive been an active Church attender all my life and been a church Warden.   I also read quite a bit about Church history before I got baptised and some was from anti sources..  Still got baptised,  i think a book like this will strengthen my testimony tbh.. We shall see I suppose lol. 

[mordorbund]

45 minutes ago, An Investigator said:

Ive been an active Church attender all my life and been a church Warden.

You mean something like @prisonchaplain's boss?

[An Investigator]

Haha no.. There isn't really a LDS equivalent, but this is it.. I counted all the donations after mass too..

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchwarden

[estradling75]

2 minutes ago, An Investigator said:

Haha no.. There isn't really a LDS equivalent, but this is it.. I counted all the donations after mass too..

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchwarden

prinsonchaplain is not LDS