Why Feminism is Bad

[Suzie]

14 hours ago, Godless said:

 A woman's place is where she chooses it to be. Period. 

[Rob Osborn]

A mans place is out working, providing for his family as much as he is able to do.

[MarginOfError]

12 hours ago, Godless said:

 A woman's place is where she chooses it to be. Period. 

The natural corollary to this is that a man's place is where he chooses to be. (Yes, that's 's feminist concept)

I remember reading a review of several studied some years ago the tracked how well children thrived as a function of whether the mother worked or not. What they found was not that the mother's employment status was related to children thriving, but what the mother wanted her employment status to be. 

Women who worked but didn't want to tended to have children who didn't thrive. The children of working women who wanted to work were just as well off as the children of non working women who didn't want to work. Turns out, happy parents make happy children.

[Guest MormonGator]

In fairness to men, those who think that women "belong in the home" are a rapidly shrinking minority. I don't know many men who feel that way. 

[MarginOfError]

One last drive by before I leave to go camping in tree houses...

I'm a feminist. I'm an outspoken feminist. My church leaders at the ward and stake level know I'm a feminist.

I just chartered a Venture Crew out of my ward building. It's coed! And it was authorized by the stake presidency.

I'm the ward clerk. And I use feminist philosophy to help shape ward culture.

I'm an institute teacher. Last year I taught the New Testament from the perspective of Jesus as a feminist. I've never learned so much from the scriptures. (I also taught the Book of Mormon from the perspective of Mormon being a Lamanite. )

I also get asked to teach temple prep courses for members preparing to be endowed and sealed. And I teach as a feminist.

Sleep well tonight, anti-feminists 

[The Folk Prophet]

34 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

The natural corollary to this is that a man's place is where he chooses to be. (Yes, that's 's feminist concept)

Like....the women's restroom.

[JohnsonJones]

30 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

I'm the ward clerk. And I use feminist philosophy to help shape ward culture.

You are!?

[NeuroTypical]

Here's everything NT knows 'bout wimmin:

I was once assigned to talk to a combined Priesthood/Relief Society on the subject of how women should be.  (Yeah, the real topic was something like "how sisters can avail themselves of the spirit" or some such, but I had no illusions about what I would really be communicating.  Sort of the LDS version of "do these pants make me look fat".)   So my talk started out by me claiming I had no idea why they chose a guy for this talk, and the rest of the talk was basically me pulling together General Conference talks given by women, and me saying what they said, and saying they said it, and saying it exactly how they said it.  I remember apologizing at least once.  I think I did ok.  

My other claim to gender relation fame, was when I finally learned how to figure out what my wife often wants to talk about.  Often, it looks like this:

- She wants to express a perspective. 
- The perspective is about what she thinks I think about something.

Basically, she thinks I think something about something, and she wants to communicate what she thinks that something specifically is.  And then she wants to talk about how what she thinks I think about something makes her feel.  

She doesn't want to talk about the thing that I'm thinking about.  She wants to talk about what she thinks I think about the thing.  Totally different discussion.  Especially when what I actually think, and what she thinks I think, are so wildly divergent.

Edited June 23, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, MarginOfError said:

The natural corollary to this is that a man's place is where he chooses to be

What if it's home playing video games in his underwear because he doesn't feel "fulfilled" supporting the family in one way or another? 

 

Just saying prescribed roles can make things easier.

[Vort]

10 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

She doesn't want to talk about the thing that I'm thinking about.  She wants to talk about what she thinks I think about the thing.  Totally different discussion.  Especially when what I actually think, and what she thinks I think, are so wildly divergent.

"I dreamed you were with another woman."

"Uh...sorry?"

"How COULD you?"

 

[Guest Godless]

1 hour ago, MarginOfError said:

The natural corollary to this is that a man's place is where he chooses to be. (Yes, that's 's feminist concept)

Yes. I know a couple of men who are SAH dads because their wives are very successful doctors. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little jealous, and that's coming from someone who slings beer for a living. I'd trade that in for full-time fatherhood any day.

 

[Backroads]

Just now, Godless said:

Yes. I know a couple of men who are SAH dads because their wives are very successful doctors. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little jealous, and that's coming from someone who slings beer for a living. I'd trade that in for full-time fatherhood any day.

 

I knew a couple when we lived in my grandma's ritzy rich people ward. A couple of men just so happened to marry doctors and dentists who made a lot more money. One couple had like a hundred kids. She would run her dental practice, give birth, take a few months' off, return to practice while leaving Dad with the new baby.

[Rob Osborn]

3 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

The natural corollary to this is that a man's place is where he chooses to be. (Yes, that's 's feminist concept)

I remember reading a review of several studied some years ago the tracked how well children thrived as a function of whether the mother worked or not. What they found was not that the mother's employment status was related to children thriving, but what the mother wanted her employment status to be. 

Women who worked but didn't want to tended to have children who didn't thrive. The children of working women who wanted to work were just as well off as the children of non working women who didn't want to work. Turns out, happy parents make happy children.

I have a hard time believing that.

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I have a hard time believing that.

It depends on what one things "thriving" actually is. By the worlds standards and studies, sure. By God's...not so much.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, Backroads said:

Just saying prescribed roles can make things easier.

They can, until you (generic, not you meaning @Backroads) start looking down at people who don't fit into the roles.

[Guest Godless]

18 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I have a hard time believing that.

Why is that?

[Backroads]

11 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

They can, until you (generic, not you meaning @Backroads) start looking down at people who don't fit into the roles.

Sure, but it doesn't mean those roles aren't generally good advice.

[Backroads]

12 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

It depends on what one things "thriving" actually is. By the worlds standards and studies, sure. By God's...not so much.

Remember, if you stay home, you hate your kids because you're depriving them of a successful role model of I-can-do-anythinghood. If you work, you hate your kids because you are abandoning them to the wolves and your soulless corporation. If you work part-time, you're confusing their sensitive minds. If you work from home, you're giving them the worst of all worlds as the home life becomes a cheap mockery. If you do direct sales, well, that speaks for itself. 

Moms are bad!

[Rob Osborn]

2 minutes ago, Godless said:

Why is that?

No one is going to convince me that children have as much of a chance at success from mothers who are in the workforce as children who have dedicated stay at home mothers.

[Blueskye2]

On 6/22/2017 at 3:11 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

What difference does that make?

Could be it comes across as "guys who feel threatened by women, and why". 

[The Folk Prophet]

20 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

No one is going to convince me that children have as much of a chance at success from mothers who are in the workforce as children who have dedicated stay at home mothers.

Along with that, it's unconvincing that having a self-centered, self-fulfillment, me-me-me, role model gives children a better chance at success than a selfless, sacrificing, humble role-model.

[The Folk Prophet]

13 minutes ago, Blueskye2 said:

Could be it comes across as "guys who feel threatened by women, and why". 

 Right.

[Blueskye2]

5 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

 Right.

Exactly!

[Rob Osborn]

12 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Along with that, it's unconvincing that having a self-centered, self-fulfillment, me-me-me, role model gives children a better chance at success than a selfless, sacrificing, humble role-model.

What has that to do with the topic?

[Just_A_Guy]

I think the stay-at-home mom discussion is a lot like the missionary discussion.  Of course unwilling stay-at-home moms, or begrudging missionaries, are going to yield inferior results.  Compulsion, guilt, and shame all have the potential to backfire in spectacular fashion.

From a spiritual standpoint, though, the challenge is to (if possible) change yourself into the kind of person who wants to do that--and then, to do it willingly.

I think like most ideologies, feminism has its uses; and like most ideologies, once taken to a certain extreme it starts threatening core Gospel principles.  Modern feminism does seem to be flirting with a lot of these extremes, especially to the extent that it justifies promiscuity and elective abortion, downplays motherhood and dismisses individual mothers as expendable/replaceable in the lives of their children, exalts short-sighted humanism over long-term sacrifice, and use myopic views of history to demand changes to ecclesiastical structures whose utility and function modern feminism seems not to have tried to understand.