Non-Mormon Wants to Live by Mormons

[OptimismInAJar]

Hello, everyone. Glad I found this place. I'm just looking to get some people's general thoughts about something.
I'll try to make this short, so if you're curious to know more detail, let me know. Basically, I was born and raised near Chicago. I once lived in Provo, Utah for a short time in my early twenties (I wanted to be by the mountains) but now I'm back in the Chicago area. I dabbled with the LDS faith during my time in Provo but I felt it was too "pushy" at the time. Since I've moved back to Illinois I have worked extremely hard and now I have a good job that pays well, yet I'm more unfulfilled than ever. I'm really missing Utah. There are a few reasons for this:

Illinois, if you don't already know, treats its citizens like milking cows. We the citizens only exist to pay taxes and then pay even more taxes the next year. If you've seen Chicago on the news within the past couple years, you probably think it's nothing but nonstop protests and violence. And you'd be right. People are even literally sniped on the expressways during rush hour and everyone is just like "oh well." I think Utah can be a strange place, but most of the people have strong conservative values in my experience and it is thus a more peaceful place (and when I use the term "conservative" I'm not trying to make this about politics, I'm just talking about traditional Christian values) In fact, although I'm not LDS, I strongly identify with LDS values.

Utah is way more affordable. The money I make in Chicago allows me to barely get by. In Utah, I would be living like a king with the same salary. I lived relatively comfortably on minimum wage in Provo! I would be able to completely financially support myself, my mother when she retires, and my own family (should I have one someday) even if I was the only working parent. Now, if I wanted to move to a more conservative state with less taxes, there are a lot of options out there. I'm not a mormon, so why would I go back to Utah? Let me be blunt here: I want to marry a mormon woman. The LDS church has considerably low divorce rates, strong family values, and places a high importance on loyalty, sexual purity, and traditional family roles. All these things have been statistically proven to benefit society and promote a more satisfactory life. I want in. Think of it this way: if I wanted to avoid being attacked by a bear, I wouldn't stay somewhere where 50% of all the people are attacked by bears. Likewise, if I want a good marriage and no divorce, I shouldn't stay somewhere where 50% of all the people get divorced.

Now, there are some things I like about where I live when comparing to Utah. In the village I live, the air is way cleaner (there's no mountains to hold in all the smog), there is almost no crime, and, well, pretty much everything I know is here. So moving would be a huge decision for me, but it's something I think I should consider within the next year or two. I at least need to weigh my options. I know obviously not everyone on this forum lives in Utah but I'm sure most of you have either visited or know people in the area. I'd love to hear your feedback. Am I being delusional? Would I be accepted in the LDS community even if I don't convert? What are some social complications I might face?

Thank you for any feedback!

[pam]

I'm not sure how long ago you lived in Utah, but the cost of living especially housing has doubled or tripled in the last 20 years.  Wages have not kept up with inflation here.

The median price of homes currently listed in Utah is $334,900. The median rent price in Utah is $1400.

[OptimismInAJar]

6 minutes ago, pam said:

I'm not sure how long ago you lived in Utah, but the cost of living especially housing has doubled or tripled in the last 20 years.  Wages have not kept up with inflation here.

The median price of homes currently listed in Utah is $334,900. The median rent price in Utah is $1400.

I lived there about 5 years ago. I rented a room in an apartment with 3 other guys for about $260 a month. I saw one bedroom apartments going for $450 a month (which I would have gotten if I had made a little more there). Also, I lived in Provo which is technically a "college town" so I think that drastically brought down the price of everything in that area too. But I know a place like Park City, for example, would be a lateral move financially.

 

[pam]

1 minute ago, OptimismInAJar said:

I lived there about 5 years ago. I rented a room in an apartment with 3 other guys for about $260 a month. I saw one bedroom apartments going for $450 a month (which I would have gotten if I had made a little more there). Also, I lived in Provo which is technically a "college town" so I think that drastically brought down the price of everything in that area too. But I know a place like Park City, for example, would be a lateral move financially.

 

I suppose sharing an apartment with others would greatly affect the price.  I was just thinking of the future since you were talking about wanting to marry eventually.

[OptimismInAJar]

Just now, pam said:

I suppose sharing an apartment with others would greatly affect the price.  I was just thinking of the future since you were talking about wanting to marry eventually.

I probably would buy a house if I moved there, which I feel like I could comfortably afford. Or a small condo if I wanted to save money. Also, property taxes there are on average less than half of what I pay here. But it's important for me to keep in mind that a lot of places in Utah are quite pricey. If I had to move out of the Provo area, living costs are something that I might need to seriously consider. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Fether]

42 minutes ago, OptimismInAJar said:

Hello, everyone. Glad I found this place. I'm just looking to get some people's general thoughts about something.
I'll try to make this short, so if you're curious to know more detail, let me know. Basically, I was born and raised near Chicago. I once lived in Provo, Utah for a short time in my early twenties (I wanted to be by the mountains) but now I'm back in the Chicago area. I dabbled with the LDS faith during my time in Provo but I felt it was too "pushy" at the time. Since I've moved back to Illinois I have worked extremely hard and now I have a good job that pays well, yet I'm more unfulfilled than ever. I'm really missing Utah. There are a few reasons for this:

Illinois, if you don't already know, treats its citizens like milking cows. We the citizens only exist to pay taxes and then pay even more taxes the next year. If you've seen Chicago on the news within the past couple years, you probably think it's nothing but nonstop protests and violence. And you'd be right. People are even literally sniped on the expressways during rush hour and everyone is just like "oh well." I think Utah can be a strange place, but most of the people have strong conservative values in my experience and it is thus a more peaceful place (and when I use the term "conservative" I'm not trying to make this about politics, I'm just talking about traditional Christian values) In fact, although I'm not LDS, I strongly identify with LDS values.

Utah is way more affordable. The money I make in Chicago allows me to barely get by. In Utah, I would be living like a king with the same salary. I lived relatively comfortably on minimum wage in Provo! I would be able to completely financially support myself, my mother when she retires, and my own family (should I have one someday) even if I was the only working parent. Now, if I wanted to move to a more conservative state with less taxes, there are a lot of options out there. I'm not a mormon, so why would I go back to Utah? Let me be blunt here: I want to marry a mormon woman. The LDS church has considerably low divorce rates, strong family values, and places a high importance on loyalty, sexual purity, and traditional family roles. All these things have been statistically proven to benefit society and promote a more satisfactory life. I want in. Think of it this way: if I wanted to avoid being attacked by a bear, I wouldn't stay somewhere where 50% of all the people are attacked by bears. Likewise, if I want a good marriage and no divorce, I shouldn't stay somewhere where 50% of all the people get divorced.

Now, there are some things I like about where I live when comparing to Utah. In the village I live, the air is way cleaner (there's no mountains to hold in all the smog), there is almost no crime, and, well, pretty much everything I know is here. So moving would be a huge decision for me, but it's something I think I should consider within the next year or two. I at least need to weigh my options. I know obviously not everyone on this forum lives in Utah but I'm sure most of you have either visited or know people in the area. I'd love to hear your feedback. Am I being delusional? Would I be accepted in the LDS community even if I don't convert? What are some social complications I might face?

Thank you for any feedback!

I myself live ina small town in Southern Utah where the air VERY clean. Southern Utah is the best!

A lot of the "LDS" community you speak of is experienced at church. If you don't go to church, you may not experience a ton of it. The second greatest opportunity to experience the community would be at family oriented events. If you don't have a family, this too may be difficult. That being said, all your neighbors will love to meet you and develop friendships . If I became single and left the church... I would likely stay in Utah. From what I understand, the economy here is still growing. You are definitely not a milk cow! Employers love and respect hard work and strong ethics, most people will treat you well

[skippy740]

One of the reasons for a low divorce rate... is due to shared faith.  Let me share with you a scripture:

2 Nephi 5:23  And cursed shall be the seed of him that ^amixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.

The footnote on "mixeth" is TG (Topical Guide) Marriage, Interfaith.  

Now, the "curse" is a separation from God.  It's far easier to be closer to God as a family unit when you don't have potential conflicts of faith.  

If you're planning on marrying an LDS woman, you should consider making yourself more 'compatible' for the marriage that they would want - one in an LDS temple.  If you don't, then you may have a shaky marriage due to the lack of temple attendance and other things that married LDS couples do to strengthen their faith, their marriages, and their families.

Let me be very frank with you:  Utah does sometimes (unfortunately) have some racist tendencies.  I've heard too many reports of those of African descent who visited Utah, only to hear racial epithets and to be stared at like they're freaks or something.  And one of these reports was a friend of mine and was called a n***** by a child with NO correction by their parent.  That tells me that, for SOME, Utah has some room to grow in this area - especially if it's being taught to their children.  Racism is a viscous attitude that is still in a SMALL MINORITY of members, but it's a vice that can be carried INTO the church AND the temple, almost without apology.  (At least if members have other vices, they don't smoke at church or bring their pornography.)  (I'm part of a member-oriented group that focuses on these issues, so we hear about these stories far more than just about any member otherwise would.)

Obviously, Utah would not hire me to be an Ambassador for their state, but it's something that you may find interesting comparing Illinois to Utah.  So while you're looking to become one with the "birds of a feather to flock together" to help keep your marriage together in a like-minded community, it's not all a "bed of roses" either.  There are still some thorns.  They may just be better at hiding them.

Edited September 17, 2017 by skippy740

[Jane_Doe]

Hi @OptimismInAJar, and welcome to the forums!

All of your stuff about thinking UT is a desirable place to live is fine.  Yes, UT does have problems (every place does), but none of the extremes that Chicago area does.  You could also find a lot of same things in other places too, particularly is a conservative rural town.  

The thing that stood out to me in your post was the "I want to marry a Mormon women" comment.  I am a Mormon women married to a Evangelical man.  Inter-faith marriage is possible with an LDS person but it hard and complicated.  For instance, have you thought about raising your children LDS or having your wife tithe 10% of her income?  Are you willing to have your house be tobacco and alcohol free?  Have her spend 3 hours at church every Sunday morning?  And those are simple social things, let alone getting to matters of faith. 

Are you willing to read scriptures and pray alongside her?  LDS marriage stats and values are informed by LDS beliefs, like the fact that we try so hard for strong marriage and families because we believe that marriage is for eternity, not just this life.  An eternal marriage is a covenant made between God and the couple.  Individuals who have not taken on Christ's name via baptism in His Church (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) cannot make this later covenant of a seal temple marriage.   So you'd be asking a lot of and LDS bride to consider marrying you for just this mortal life.

Just some things to think about.

[seashmore]

Welcome to the forum!

My advice? Try a flyover state. Kansas, Nebraska (which I'm personally partial to), or Iowa if you're looking for cheap living. Wyoming, Montana, or even Idaho if you're looking for mountains again. 

That being said, Chicago is a cesspool and I applaud you for putting up with it this long. A week would be too long for me.

I'm curious: have you tried dating local Mormons? Most single Midwest Mormon women past college age (lol...all 50 of us...just kidding, there's 49, Sarah got married this weekend) are willing to give a guy a first date chance, even if they aren't LDS. Have you ever heard the advice to be the kind of person you want to marry? If you want to marry someone kind, you have to be kind; if you want to marry someone adventurous, you have to be adventurous; if you want to marry someone who puts God and their family above all else, you have to put God and your family above all else. The questions @Jane_Doe brought up are definitely ones that will be going through a Mormon girl's head if things looked like they could get serious with you, so you should probably have your mind made up about them.

Good luck!

[mirkwood]

Curious what village you live in.

[JohnsonJones]

If I were not LDS and had no desire to become LDS, my first choice probably would not be Utah to find someone to marry.  LDS who marry in the LDS TEMPLE have a lower divorce rate from what I understand, but those who marry outside of the temple have divorce rates comparable to the rest of the US.

Most LDS girls that are firm in their faith desire to be married in an LDS temple.  That means, dating an LDS member.  As an example, I taught my daughters that the marriage they should aim for was a temple marriage.  This means they should avoid dating those who are NOT members.  In addition, they should look for those that are return missionaries, possibly Eagle Scouts or involved in Boy Scouts, and who CURRENTLY SHOW a great devotion to the LDS faith in their habits (prayer, church attendance, consideration of the scriptures...etc).

That doesn't mean that I have anything against those who are not LDS, but I desired my daughters to have marriages in the LDS manner.  That means, I would have actively discouraged them from dating those who are not members of the LDS faith. 

I think I am not the only one who does that with their daughters.  It's nothing against non-members, but it is something that you should be aware of before making a hefty life choice dependent on finding an LDS girl that will be faithful and true to you.  Is it possible?  Of course.  However, I'm not sure the chances of marrying a good and faithful LDS girl is going to be the easiest thing to do...

 

UNLESS...of course, you are willing to be baptized into the LDS church and become a faithful member!  You know we can be pushy, but it's for good reason, especially if you want to marry our daughters.

[my two cents]

Welcome to the forum! I love that you "want in" but you need to understand that being LDS is a lifestyle. Yes, there's the standards but there's also the time commitment. We're a lay church which means everyone is supposed to pitch in to help things run. Sometimes it can require a good deal of time outside the 3 hours of church on Sunday so your wife could at times be quite busy and need your support with that. To have a strong marriage, the more "equally yoked" you are the better so you may want to consider how aligned you're willing to be. And fwiw - not sure what line of work you're in but you may want to consider southern Idaho as well (you still get mountains and conservative values but without the smog).

[Sunday21]

I am a former organizer of acitivites for single lds people. Party Organizer was my volunteer job. During this period of service, nonlds men would come to the activities and explicitly let everyone know that they were looking for an lds wife. Not a single one of these guys got anywhere. 

 Lds women come to lds activiites looking to find an lds man. So....why not

1) come to church? Maybe there are things other than the low divorce rate that you might be interested in?

2) look for another Christian community? I understand that there are Christian dating websites? Watchout for affinity fraud. Fraudsters join such sites looking for dupes.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Sunday21

[Grunt]

8 hours ago, OptimismInAJar said:

Hello, everyone. Glad I found this place. I'm just looking to get some people's general thoughts about something.
I'll try to make this short, so if you're curious to know more detail, let me know. Basically, I was born and raised near Chicago. I once lived in Provo, Utah for a short time in my early twenties (I wanted to be by the mountains) but now I'm back in the Chicago area. I dabbled with the LDS faith during my time in Provo but I felt it was too "pushy" at the time. Since I've moved back to Illinois I have worked extremely hard and now I have a good job that pays well, yet I'm more unfulfilled than ever. I'm really missing Utah. There are a few reasons for this:

Illinois, if you don't already know, treats its citizens like milking cows. We the citizens only exist to pay taxes and then pay even more taxes the next year. If you've seen Chicago on the news within the past couple years, you probably think it's nothing but nonstop protests and violence. And you'd be right. People are even literally sniped on the expressways during rush hour and everyone is just like "oh well." I think Utah can be a strange place, but most of the people have strong conservative values in my experience and it is thus a more peaceful place (and when I use the term "conservative" I'm not trying to make this about politics, I'm just talking about traditional Christian values) In fact, although I'm not LDS, I strongly identify with LDS values.

Utah is way more affordable. The money I make in Chicago allows me to barely get by. In Utah, I would be living like a king with the same salary. I lived relatively comfortably on minimum wage in Provo! I would be able to completely financially support myself, my mother when she retires, and my own family (should I have one someday) even if I was the only working parent. Now, if I wanted to move to a more conservative state with less taxes, there are a lot of options out there. I'm not a mormon, so why would I go back to Utah? Let me be blunt here: I want to marry a mormon woman. The LDS church has considerably low divorce rates, strong family values, and places a high importance on loyalty, sexual purity, and traditional family roles. All these things have been statistically proven to benefit society and promote a more satisfactory life. I want in. Think of it this way: if I wanted to avoid being attacked by a bear, I wouldn't stay somewhere where 50% of all the people are attacked by bears. Likewise, if I want a good marriage and no divorce, I shouldn't stay somewhere where 50% of all the people get divorced.

Now, there are some things I like about where I live when comparing to Utah. In the village I live, the air is way cleaner (there's no mountains to hold in all the smog), there is almost no crime, and, well, pretty much everything I know is here. So moving would be a huge decision for me, but it's something I think I should consider within the next year or two. I at least need to weigh my options. I know obviously not everyone on this forum lives in Utah but I'm sure most of you have either visited or know people in the area. I'd love to hear your feedback. Am I being delusional? Would I be accepted in the LDS community even if I don't convert? What are some social complications I might face?

Thank you for any feedback!

6

I'm a heathen, so let me share my story with you since many of the points you raised rang true with me.

Everything that draws you to the church you can have without it (in terms of values).  I have them.  You just need to choose your partner wisely.  Most people don't.  

I was attracted to the church for the very same reasons as you:  Traditional values, emphasis on family, preparedness, and the like are all things I was living long before I was introduced to the church.  Because of that, it caused me to look into the church to see what about their religion caused them to believe so much like me.  In doing so, I found that their faith and values stem from God, Prophets, and Scripture.  I can't explain much more than that because I'm a neophyte, but someone else could probably help if it's important to you.

I've found that I am accepted in the Mormon community as long as I continue to have a desire to learn.  I'm not sure what would happen if I said: "I'm just here to hang out".  I'm sure they would be fine with it, but being fine with it doesn't mean I'd get the same reception.  The Mormons are a very welcoming people and seem to pride themselves on not being judgmental as individuals, or at least acknowledging when they are.  That's odd because as a religion they are very judgmental.

Mormons aren't pushy.  Missionaries are pushy.  That's a huge difference.  If one more missionary asks me to set a date for baptism I'm going to stop inviting them over.  I don't, though, because I find value in their fellowship and lessons.  I think next time I see them I'll ask them to not mention baptism again.  I honestly believe they likely won't.  I learn doctrine and scripture from the missionaries, typically.  I learn application through association with Mormons.  

One thing I've learned is Mormons aren't just a religion, they are a family.  The skeptical side of me believes this is to keep everyone on the straight and narrow, and that is likely part of it, but I believe it stems from a genuine desire and belief that they are to care for each other.  They have dinners together, study together, work parties at each other's homes, and just generally interact regularly.  At least they seem to.  I'm invited to many things and was at first treated like a special guest, but now I'm just one of the guys.  I've only been around for three months, so maybe these invitations will wither, but I doubt it.  They seem genuine.  Most of them are just open invitations that I attach myself to.  I think they may be surprised that I participate as much as I do without being a member.

So, my advice to you would be to seek out your local ward and become active in it.  Accept the fact that the missionaries are pushy and learn from them as much as you would like to, but become active in your ward.  That is where you will learn the root of the values you seek.  You'll learn the faith along the way and if it rings true to you follow it.