Looking for advice, not judgement

[Latter-Day Marriage]

1 hour ago, JoCa said:

Is there any chance that your husband sitting at his computer watching porn will get STDs, get a woman pregnant?  Is there any chance that with you making out with a man who is not your husband that you will have sex, get pregnant, get STDs, etc?

You tell me which sin is the greater sin?...

  No man who has a good marriage will result to porn use. 

It goes much deeper than STDs and pregnancy.  The body is sacred, the power of procreation is the most godlike ability we have been given.  To abuse that power by getting sexual outside of marriage is desecration of the sacred, even when nobody gets an STD or winds up with child.  He did not taint his body by joining sexually with another person and that makes a big difference.

But even when a marriage is good a person can still fall prey to porn, men and women.  Nobody can blame their porn usage on their spouse, but it is true that a spouse can create an environment that makes it harder or easier to resist temptation.

[In Idaho]

32 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

My wife and I were pretty serious when I left on my mission, and I knew she was the one.  A couple years after we got married, I found out that while I was on my mission she did some things that were disloyal to me as a boyfriend.  She did not break any commandments but she did cross the line and do some things that a loyal and faithful girlfriend would not have done.  The fact that she stopped it several months before I got home and had been faithful to me as a wife all along did really change the hurt.  The fact that she did those things, then hid it from me, really made it feel as if she had cheated on me the very day I found out. I know what you are feeling, and I know what it took for us to heal that wound so please take some advise.

There is nothing wrong about feeling that hurt over it, at least at the start.  The hurt comes from the meaning you attach to his actions.  You are attaching a meaning to his actions that says his use of porn is a reflection of his feelings and commitment to you, that his using porn is morally equivalent to adultery.  Both of those ideas are wrong.  His porn use is a symptom of his condition that he needs help with.  How the church deals with a case of adultery is very different than how it deals with porn usage because they are not morally equivalent (although both wrong).  If you choose to cling to interpreting his actions as you do now, you needlessly amplify your pain and slow or even prevent healing.

It is not a matter of whose sin is worse, it is a matter of what sin is yours.  Denial, downplaying the seriousness of it, getting defensive, these are not the steps of repentance, that is hardening your heart.  And even before you made your mistake,  not forgiving your husbands porn usage and hanging onto that anger leaves you guilty of the greater sin.   

Thank you for the tone of your comments. It's refreshing to hear the side you need to hear in a way that has some compassion to it instead of condemnation. I understand what you're saying which is why I'm in counseling. I can't seem to let go of the hurt I've felt these past 5+ years. The moment I feel like I've got it under control, he'll mess up again and it all comes back which tells me I never got past it in the first place. I don't know how. I am currently figuring that out. 

[In Idaho]

28 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Nobody can blame their porn usage on their spouse, but it is true that a spouse can create an environment that makes it harder or easier to resist temptation.

This is true. But I do want y'all to know my husband has told me multiple times that I'm the reason he is getting stronger because I'm patient and try to help him. So yes, I'm angry, but that doesn't mean I always take it out on him. So in this case, that's not an issue

[Jane_Doe]

@In Idaho, just... wow- mega props to you!  Yes, you and your husband have both made mistakes (big ones), but I'm truly impressed with your humility and willingness to push forward and try to do right thing.  Wow! 

[In Idaho]

1 hour ago, JoCa said:

Sounds like then all you wanted was sympathy for cheating.  Not gonna find it from me.

Not the case. I came here looking for courage and help understanding what in the world I got myself into. I got that from everyone but two people so far and you are one of them. So please leave.

 

[skippy740]

You've already received the encouragement, guidance, and counsel, so I won't go there.

I cannot take away the hurt.  In fact, I'm going to make it a bit deeper: 

You physically became what you were afraid of your husband doing to you emotionally, virtually, that could also lead to physically.

Why?  Because you let FEAR into your marriage.  Sure, you can blame his habit, and I can blame the church for teaching paranoia about it, but you have to take responsibility for your own reaction.

2 Timothy 1:7  For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Personally, I think the women in the church are 'trained' to be 'parents' to their husbands, to withhold sex if he has a problem, to leave and abandon him when he could need her spirit the most, and to consider it grounds for DIVORCE.  (What happened to 'in sickness and in health'?  It's turned into "unless he has a pornography problem".)  The women in the church who think this COULD be cowards and spineless about all this.  This is why you think you're less attractive and he's less attractive to you - you changed into a PARENT instead of being his WIFE.  You're EMASCULATING him while trying to heal yourself.  How can that help anything?

Yes, pornography is far worse than it was 50 years ago when it was just magazines under the bed.  But the paranoia around it... I think is uncalled for.

Consider this:  there are healthy marriages where they both drink alcohol and smoke.  As long as it is not abused, their marriage is okay.  No, it's not a Celestial marriage, but it can be a fully functioning marriage with love in it.  How do I know?  I have non-member family and they smoke and drink... and they've been together for at least 35 years.  It can be done.  (Yes, he can get drunk, but he's still responsible about it and he's NEVER abused his kids or his wife.)  Of course, as LDS with the WoW, we also say "why take the chance?"

Can you have a loving marriage with pornography?  I won't say yes or no, but I will say that I'm sure it can be done, if you love him for him... and not just his worthiness.  Pornography will interfere with having a Celestial standard of marriage... with potential eternal consequences.  But to have to leave?  I think that's overkill.

 

Don't ask me how I know all this.  I just do.

[In Idaho]

23 minutes ago, skippy740 said:

Don't ask me how I know all this.  I just do.

I have no idea what it is that you know because what you said is not applicable to me. The pain didn't go deeper like you wanted it to.

There seems to be a lot about pornography that you are unaware of. 

[skippy740]

And yet, you missed the entire point of my post.

[Grunt]

6 hours ago, In Idaho said:

I am not the sole reason there's no passion. I would love it if you wouldn't judge everything and assume you know the details about the situation. You know only small details of what I've said. Just like EVERY relationship, there's always more going on than you know about. So stop being a jerk.

Get off your high horse.  You cheated on your husband.  I am a lot of horrible things, including a jerk, but I've never betrayed my family.   You should be looking inward.  You came here for help.  Stop acting like a petulant child looking to blame someone else for a missing cookie and worrying about whether mom's punishment will be severe.   It doesn't matter what the penance is.  Accept it, learn from it.  Beg your family's forgiveness.  You shouldn't even be worrying about your husband's addiction.   You shouldn't even have mentioned it.  It is irrelevant to the issue.   Yet it was the first thing you posted about to generate sympathy and/or share blame.   THAT is why my response seems "jerky" to you.  You aren't truly repentant.

That said,  your husband's issue is your husband's issue.  You're making it a problem with your marriage.  The church doesn't view porn like the rest of the world.  The natural man doesn't view porn like the church does.  It doesn't diminish his feelings for you.  Get counseling to work through your feelings of inadequacy.  Get counseling to help bring passion back into your marriage.  The porn is a use issue.   Stop making it the central issue.   Your infidelity is now the central issue.  

EDITED TO ADD:   I know I sound harsh.  Infidelity bugs me.  The title of your post didn't help.   It says you don't want to hear about your blame in this.  Then the content of your post didn't seem to be looking for advice at all.  I just felt bad for your family and don't think you realize that you're the problem that needs addressing nor that you're committed to fixing it.  Those are the details you provided.  

Go talk to the bishop.  Go talk to a counselor.  Get on your knees.  

Edited September 19, 2017 by Grunt

[my two cents]

6 hours ago, In Idaho said:

 So stop being a jerk.

@In Idaho I'm sorry you're experiencing these challenges and I know you're new to this forum but we don't call names here or tell people to leave just because you don't like their reply.

[Grunt]

7 minutes ago, my two cents said:

@In Idaho I'm sorry you're experiencing these challenges and I know you're new to this forum but we don't call names here or tell people to leave just because you don't like their reply.

Thanks, but she's not wrong.  I could learn to be less blunt in my responses.  I have a bad habit of calling things as I see them.  I try to have compassion, and I truly believe I do, but I have no patience for not "adulting" about certain things.  Personal responsibility is one.  You can't fix a problem if you refuse to acknowledge it.  

[JoCa]

3 hours ago, skippy740 said:

Personally, I think the women in the church are 'trained' to be 'parents' to their husbands, to withhold sex if he has a problem, to leave and abandon him when he could need her spirit the most, and to consider it grounds for DIVORCE.  (What happened to 'in sickness and in health'?  It's turned into "unless he has a pornography problem".)  The women in the church who think this COULD be cowards and spineless about all this.  This is why you think you're less attractive and he's less attractive to you - you changed into a PARENT instead of being his WIFE.  You're EMASCULATING him while trying to heal yourself.  How can that help anything?

Amen to this again. I would amend it that it's not just confined to wives but also husbands (as in there are some husbands who are a parent to their wife-again not good) . ..but I agree that I think in general it has targeted more women.  We say things like SWMBO (she who must be obeyed) as if the wife is the parent in the relationship . .. ridiculous.

In the God ordained marriage the man is supposed to me the head of the household, not the woman.  A man who is using porn is abrogating his responsibility to lead his family in righteousness.  But for a wife to force their husband to be righteous as in nagging b/c of pornography is upsetting the natural order of things. She can encourage, uplift, discuss how she feels hurt by it (which I totally get), etc. But when she takes responsibility to ensure her husband is not using pornography she oversteps the bounds.  

The proper authority who nags or tells the man to quit using pornography is God, through the Holy Ghost and through proper priesthood leaders such as a Bishop, Elder's Quorum President, etc.

[JoCa]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

Thanks, but she's not wrong.  I could learn to be less blunt in my responses.  I have a bad habit of calling things as I see them.  I try to have compassion, and I truly believe I do, but I have no patience for not "adulting" about certain things.  Personal responsibility is one.  You can't fix a problem if you refuse to acknowledge it.  

I'm more like you Grunt.  I don't think it's a bad habit of calling things as they are.  Too many people in today's society say "don't judge me", what they really mean is don't tell me about my sins b/c I don't want to know about my sins.  It's a very rebellious, haughty and proud attitude.  Eventually over time if you don't stand up for what is sin and what isn't sin then as a society we forget what sin is.

People say they want compassion but what they mean is I don't want to feel bad about anything I've done.

True compassion is helping people recognize what sin is, how to overcome it, the steps involved in doing so and then helping them understand that once the repentance process is complete to move on from the sin.

[JoCa]

I will also say as a husband I personally would have a very hard time believing that there was no sex involved.  If you go all the way to petting, especially with passions involved (chemistry and passion) as mentioned I would have a very, very hard time believing that some sex did not occur (it might have been simulated).

You develop a relationship with a guy, he comes over to your house multiple times over a span of months, you have make-out sessions, it goes to petting and you are telling me you didn't have simulated sex?  I just don't buy it; not in today's society.

Like I said, if the husband is frankly forgiving, you've got an awesome man and you should do everything to keep him regardless of the porn.

[skippy740]

2 hours ago, JoCa said:

I'm more like you Grunt.  I don't think it's a bad habit of calling things as they are.  Too many people in today's society say "don't judge me", what they really mean is don't tell me about my sins b/c I don't want to know about my sins.  It's a very rebellious, haughty and proud attitude.  Eventually over time if you don't stand up for what is sin and what isn't sin then as a society we forget what sin is.

People say they want compassion but what they mean is I don't want to feel bad about anything I've done.

True compassion is helping people recognize what sin is, how to overcome it, the steps involved in doing so and then helping them understand that once the repentance process is complete to move on from the sin.

Since this is a thread by and for an individual, I'll only state that we can only help the individual who is LOOKING for help and guidance.  You can't teach a society, but we can work with individuals one-on-one, one-by-one.  

[pam]

11 hours ago, In Idaho said:

Not the case. I came here looking for courage and help understanding what in the world I got myself into. I got that from everyone but two people so far and you are one of them. So please leave.

 

So I've now read through this entire thread.  And I will say that I see both sides of the responses that are being given.  But one thing I want to say and we say this quite often here on the forums.  When you come to a random internet forum (LDS or not) you can expect a variety of responses.  Not all of them are going to be what you want to see or what you want to hear.  And we will allow a variety of responses unless they start breaking some of the site rules that we have set into place.  So far none of the responses meet that criteria.  

Many times responses are given because that person or someone very close to them have gone through the same situation.  Now I'm NOT saying that is the case here because I don't know and frankly it is none of my business.  Believe me.  I have some subjects that just push my buttons and because they are something I am passionate about, I voice my opinion even if it goes against the grain.  It's just how we as humans are.

Putting a disclaimer or a rule in the title such as "no judgment" won't stop people from having opinions or expressing their perspectives on a situation.  It's like saying, "I want to hear what you have to say but only if it is something I want to hear."    In fact many times it fuels it more than stops it.  It's the nature of an internet forum.   But we can't ask people to leave unless they are breaking site rules as I mentioned earlier.  And that can only come from the moderating staff.  

What I get from the OP is you are asking about what kind of action, disciplinary or other, you might receive for your actions with another.  To be honest, none of us can tell you that.  We are not your  Bishop.  We don't hold any stewardship over you.  Only your Bishop can guide you and direct you and decide what action might need to be taken.  

Having a porn addiction can cause problems in a marriage.  By your own admission you stated that he came to you months before your got married and admitted he had a problem with it.  Getting married doesn't just magically make that addiction go away.  The same can be said with any other addiction.  

You mentioned he is a wonderful husband that treats you like a Queen and is a wonderful father to your child.  That's such a glowing compliment to him in a world where some just don't take marriage and parenthood that seriously.  

I guess what I really want to say is, it sounds like both of you have issues right now that are affecting your marriage.  That's really what it boils down to.  Both of you need to work on your individual issues.  Both of you need to have some long serious talks with your Bishop and follow his counsel.  Both of you also need to have some long serious talks with our Father in Heaven.  I'm sure you are already doing that.  

And again, keep in mind this is a public internet forum.  If you are going to come and lay your problems down for the world to see and expect only kind, thoughtful, and encouraging words it doesn't always happen.  The forums are filled with different people with different life experiences and many times give their opinion based on those experiences.  

I truly do wish you the best and hope that both of you can receive the help you need.  It does sound like there is still much hope and love in your marriage.  

[skippy740]

7 hours ago, Grunt said:

Thanks, but she's not wrong.  I could learn to be less blunt in my responses.  I have a bad habit of calling things as I see them.  I try to have compassion, and I truly believe I do, but I have no patience for not "adulting" about certain things.  Personal responsibility is one.  You can't fix a problem if you refuse to acknowledge it.  

Don't change!  Being a Challenger is what is needed most in this world - in all settings.

About a year ago, I came across this article in the Harvard Business Review regarding selling, but it can apply in many areas:

https://hbr.org/2011/09/selling-is-not-about-relatio

I identify as a "challenger".  As long as you are adding new information and not "just" putting others down, you help people most by serving them, not 'pleasing' them - or telling them just what they want to hear.

Challengers teach their customers.  Challengers tailor their message to the individual.  Challengers take control on the interaction.  Challengers dominate the world of complex "solution selling" (or providing advice) - meaning that they provide clarity where others just want to be pleased.  

People pleasers, because they want to please and AVOID confrontation, end up at "wimp junction" where they surrender what they know might be best... to pleasing the other person.

There's more on this, but being bold and assertive (and perhaps blunt) does not mean that you are mean.  In fact, you have MORE compassion because you care more about serving than pleasing.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

11 hours ago, In Idaho said:

Thank you for the tone of your comments. It's refreshing to hear the side you need to hear in a way that has some compassion to it instead of condemnation. I understand what you're saying which is why I'm in counseling. I can't seem to let go of the hurt I've felt these past 5+ years. The moment I feel like I've got it under control, he'll mess up again and it all comes back which tells me I never got past it in the first place. I don't know how. I am currently figuring that out. 

Feeling hurt doesn't mean you haven`t forgiven.  If somebody punched me in the face, it would feel the same no matter how much I forgave them for it.  Forgiveness is a process too and when he messes up he re-opens the wound and you both have to start the process over again.  Don`t be hard on yourself over that, its perfectly normal.  The anger though is not something that goes along with forgiveness, and getting forgiveness for your sin will require you be forgiving of his.  You focus needs to be on dealing with your sin.  I know its easier to focus on the hurt you feel rather than the hurt you caused, but you need to take your eyes off his sin and look hard at yourself.

Just keep working on moving forward and understand that this isn't going to go away instantly for either of you.  He will mess up again on his way to full recovery, accept that, expect it, don't take it personally.  Hopefully as time goes on and he works on it the instances of messing up will be further apart and less severe until it fades out to nothing. 

He feels bad about it and is working on it and that is a  very good sign.  He is not trying to justify it or blame you for it.  It sounds to me like he is a very good man who (like everyone else) has flaws and he loves you and there is a good foundation for you both to build on.  Don't let his sin be an excuse to not fully regret your own.  You have fallen further than he has.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

12 hours ago, skippy740 said:

Consider this:  there are healthy marriages where they both drink alcohol and smoke.  As long as it is not abused, their marriage is okay.  No, it's not a Celestial marriage, but it can be a fully functioning marriage with love in it.  How do I know?  I have non-member family and they smoke and drink... and they've been together for at least 35 years.  It can be done.  (Yes, he can get drunk, but he's still responsible about it and he's NEVER abused his kids or his wife.)  Of course, as LDS with the WoW, we also say "why take the chance?"

Can you have a loving marriage with pornography?  I won't say yes or no, but I will say that I'm sure it can be done, if you love him for him... and not just his worthiness.  Pornography will interfere with having a Celestial standard of marriage... with potential eternal consequences.  But to have to leave?  I think that's overkill.

I don't think breaking the WoW is a good comparison for using porn or getting physical with another person. It just isn't as hurtful to the other spouse.

I think that if a man has a problem with pornography, and he is honestly working as best he can to overcome it, and his wife doesn't take his problem as an insult but joins him in the battle against porn as an ally and has compassion for him that they can have a loving marriage as they work to overcome the porn issue.  If there she pushes him away as unworthy of her, gives him the cold shoulder till he 'shapes up', acts as his judge or mother rather than his partner and help meet then it won't go so well.

In the end when we are judges, it is our heart God looks at.  A person honestly fighting an addiction of some kind has a shot at the CK.  It isn't what point you are at, it is what direction you are moving in, however slowly.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

Here is a relevant Ensign article:

Repentance and Forgiveness in Marriage

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2011/09/repentance-and-forgiveness-in-marriage?lang=eng

[skippy740]

43 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

I don't think breaking the WoW is a good comparison for using porn or getting physical with another person. It just isn't as hurtful to the other spouse.

Perhaps, but both can be considered as a cancer to a marriage, depending on how one views it.  Severity is in the eye of the beholder - regardless of what science says, it's how we interpret and act upon it.

[Bad Karma]

On 9/18/2017 at 8:48 PM, In Idaho said:

I didn't read this whole novel and don't intend to. You have no idea what the rest of our marriage entails. You only know what I've told you. He kinda already knows something has happened he just doesn't know exactly and he already told me we'll work through it so before you assume you know everything about this situation, sit back and realize you have absolutely no idea all of everything that is happening

Holy smokes! 

Glad I'm not your Bishop, I'd be really sad about all of this. I'd be really hounding the stake president and my counselors about what to do about this very much in peril marriage, how to bring you both lovingly to repentance and save a marriage.

Tell me, are you and your husband sealed? 

BTW, I am **NOT** a Bishop, nor do I play one on TV, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once. 

 

[JohnsonJones]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 1:16 PM, In Idaho said:

I have been cheated on in the past and I will tell you, what he's doing with pornography feels the exact same as when I was cheated on. Maybe it's not that same feeling for everyone when their spouse has a porn problem, but it feels the exact same to me. I'm not saying which sin is worse because honestly I feel that is completely up to Heavenly Father and I do think situation plays a role in everything so he will decide in this circumstance.

This is HARD advice, because what you did is a HARD thing to overcome.  An addiction to pornography and emotional adultery with physical intimacy (though luckily without the full on act) It is NOT the same.  Cheating is far worse than what your husband has done.  Point...blank.  You are making excuses to try to justify what you did in your mind.  This is NOT a repentant attitude.

Secondly, these are TWO separate things.  YOU did something excessively bad.  Terrible in fact.  Luckily, from what you described, it was not full on adultery, but it is STILL a terrible thing you have done. 

This is not a judgment though, but my advice is to HUMBLE YOURSELF and REPENT.  In sackcloth and ashes in attitude.  You are NOT going to really get to where you want to be by blaming your husband for your own sins.  It does NOT work that way.  If you want to repent, start with yourself.

Finally, my other piece of advice, is in regards to the rest of your post, is if you are having problems in your marriage, you may want to see a marriage counselor.

PS: Your husband isn't here, so there's no advice to really give for him.  Is he committing sin?  From your description, it sounds as if he is.  However, it also sounds as if you are trying to use it to justify your own sins, my advice is to stop doing that, as it's not really going to be useful in repenting either way.  Hopefully this is short enough so that you read it.  I normally would give a much more sympathetic post, but you seem to ignore longer posts from what I read above, so I simply just got to the point.

[JohnsonJones]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 11:54 PM, In Idaho said:

Not the case. I came here looking for courage and help understanding what in the world I got myself into. I got that from everyone but two people so far and you are one of them. So please leave.

 

A little softer now on my part, though I doubt you will read through this entire post.  I was only harsh above to get the point across as quickly and shortly as possible.  There was a post above that you made which indicates, if a post gets too long, you cease to read it. 

You have a complex situation, and I can understand how there can be years of pain.  It can be a very tough and very hard thing to deal with.  I have a parallel story that sort of relates to this.

Several years ago, I was working at a location near a military base.  In our ward were many military families.  A majority of those in the military were husbands.  They would be called off and away for home for months at a time.  This was not just hard on their wives emotionally, but mentally and physically as well.  I was not in a Bishopric at the time, but I heard much of their struggles from the wives in these families.  These were good LDS woman, but many had very hard feelings.  They got married to be with their husbands, not apart.  However, with how much their husbands were gone, many felt that it was almost akin to abandonment.  These husbands provided a paycheck which the wives would use to support their households, however, without their husbands there they were the ones who had to take over the role of father and mother.  Some said it felt as if they were single mothers, even though they were married.  For them, this was an extremely hard and challenging experience.  Different woman handled it differently.

Unfortunately, it was so hard on some, that they chose divorce.  Divorce is not something I normally condone, and I don't in these instances...HOWEVER...I can understand WHY some of them chose this path.  IT was HARD, and I mean REALLY hard for them.  Harder then I can probably imagine.  Many of these woman truly suffered as well.  Some of the husbands were not high ranking, and instead were younger enlisted individuals.  Their families experienced poverty and monetary hardship in their absence that many of the wives did not know how to deal with.  The church would help when it knew, but there were instances where for some reason, they never told anyone about it.  An E2 or E3s salary for a wife and three children (or more) can be a very difficult thing to live off of, and when your husband isn't there to support you, and you are all that is there to try to keep the household together and running, it can be VERY HARD.

Even more unfortunate in these circumstances, were those wives that would commit adultery or have affairs while their husbands were gone.  They WERE LONELY.  The spouse that they thought they would have around was not there.  They lost focus on the Lord, on the church, and eventually other priorities in life took precedence over the vows they made at marriage and at baptism, where the things of the world seemed more important then their promises to the Lord.  I have never been in their shoes, but I can imagine loneliness can be a terribly hard thing to deal with.  Unfortunately, they used it as a driver to force them more away from the Lord then closer.

The most unfortunate are those woman that were lonely and the church members could have helped by doing more to fellowship these woman in the ward.  Sometimes, sadly enough, these woman were isolated, even from members in the ward, which made their loneliness even worse.

Other woman flourished.  They recognized the hardship, but utilized it to draw closer to the Lord.  They kept more solidly to their temple covenants, reading scriptures, adhering and choosing to utilize the time they had even more on the Lord than they did before.  Even those that were isolated, but kept firm in their testimonies, remained strong in their marriages. 

What this seems to tell me is that even if there are problems in a marriage, those that put the LORD first, and focus on him most in their marriage, will be happier and have stronger marriages overall.  It is when we start thinking about ourselves, getting selfish, or putting our own desires above that of the Lord that we start running into problems.  This does NOT mean it will be EASY, and in fact it could be excessively hard.  I can't imagine the hardship some of these military spouses went through (and there were two or three husbands in that lot, but most of them were wives).  However, it wasn't so much that their difficulties were all different, in fact they had many similarities...it was HOW they dealt with those difficulties and involved the Lord that made all the difference.

Another thing is that they could not rely on their husbands to overcome a problem they had at home.  Their husbands were gone (Which some may say was part of the problem...HOWEVER...I do not see it as such.  These men [and the few women] were fighting for our nation and our freedoms, it was a trial for the marriage, but these individuals were under orders from their superiors, instead of doing things of their own volition. They volunteered for it, but it was others who choose where they went and what they did) and so it was upon them to resolve their own issues.  Whatever solution came, THEY were the ones that had to come up with it.  If there were changes at home, those changes had to come from them.  The spouses that came out the best, and I think even stronger in their marriages were those that, as I said above, put the LORD first.

In many ways, I think if we put the Lord first, and then put our spouses needs above our own, we will be happier in our marriages then when we think only of ourselves.

You have expressed problems in your marriage, and it sounds like it has been a HARD time for you.  I see a parallel here with the military wives.  They also had a hard time.  The first choice I think they had was who they were going to blame.  Where they going to blame it all on their husbands, or were they going to take responsibility on what went on in their household.  In this light, I'd say, I can see how your husbands actions have made you have a very hard time in your marriage.  I can see how it has been extremely tough.  I can sympathize.  It sounds however, that he is trying as hard as he can, and in this instance, it may just not be enough to resolve that hardship in your marriage.  This means you have a VERY HARD situation on your hand.  I can't imagine how hard it is for you.  Perhaps there have been nights that you have spent weeping about it, and depressed about how grim it is.  In this, it is not easy to deal with.

However, barring what your husband has done, I'd say that if there is going to be a change, it is going to need to be from you.  From what you have expressed, it sounds like you've struggled for some time, and are worn out.  You may even feel like giving up (and in fact, sounds like you may have done just that for a while).  Just for a little while, instead of putting the Lord first, and then your husband and family, you wanted to have something for yourself, and acted upon it.  In this, the actions of your husband became irrelevant, and it directly became your problem.

One military wife I knew had her husband leave for a long deployment.  They had not been married for long, and had just had an infant.  Here she was, with a baby less than a month old and her husband was gone.  There was not much that he could do about it.  Eventually, she felt bad enough about it, that she wanted solace for herself.  She couldn't take the hardship on her own.  Instead of seeking solace from the Lord and the church, she sought it at other locations by going off "partying" on her own.  Heavens knows what happened with the baby in that time when she was partying.  She put her own needs ahead of not just her husband and the Lord, but her own child.  That was her choice.  This marriage had some hefty problems.

In contrast, another military wife also had a similar situation.  She had her husband just get home from a deployment.  She got pregnant and he was gone on a deployment again for a few months time.  He then came back for around three months, and the baby was born and he left around two weeks later.    She got more involved with Relief Society. She established a reading group, she went to some sort of sewing (or quilting) group the older ladies of the ward had.  She focused more on the church and the gospel.  This marriage seemed to grow stronger while I saw that couple. 

It matters who we put first in our marriage.  IT is not called enduring to the end for no reason.  Sometimes enduring to the end really is...more enduring than anything else.

Me and my wife have this thing where I am hers and she is mine.  In essence, we do not own ourselves.  Hence, our bodies are not our own, but our spouses.  It thus means we must put our spouses desires for us, before our own desires.

You have indicated that you have committed a pretty bad sin, or made a dire mistake.  I imagine this is not something that suddenly came up by complete surprise.  As a Young woman, I'm certain you had situations where you knew when you should say no.  It is still a choice we have as adults.  Sometimes, when one is under a great deal of stress, we make mistakes though.  Once again, from that military ward.

This is about a young service man this time.  They were a member.  They had a great deal of stress and had been deployed to a combat zone.  I have no idea what went on there, but supposedly there were some pretty deep mental and emotional scars that caused a great deal of Post traumatic stress.  This individual then fell among some bad peers in the military.  They were having a very hard time readapting back after their deployment.  They had a LOT of stress, and under this peer pressure and the stresses of the results of the combat as well as trying to readapt, committed some crimes as per the military courts.  I had the sad issue of being one of the members that visited this young man.  He wasn't a wicked young man per se, but had made some pretty serious mistakes.  He still had a desire to be good, and he had that good core from his youth still within his heart.  He had to pay the cost for what he did, but he also could repent.

In this, I see your situation.  I think you probably still have that good heart and a good foundation there.  You have made a mistake.  You should talk to your Bishop, which it sounds like you are willing to do.  I doubt it is going to be as bad as you have made it out to be in your mind.  I do not know though.  I think a LOT of what you will have to deal with in repenting will depend GREATLY on your own attitude.  If you are humble, and willing to accept responsibility for your actions, do away with your own things and rededicate yourself to the Lord, I think it will probably be an easier process than if you try to blame others, or look to others for responsibility rather than yourself.  Repentance is a deeply personal thing, and though sometimes it can be easy, sometimes it is just as hard, if not harder to do than the thing that caused us to need to repent in the first place. 

If nothing else, I hope it can be a learning experience for you, as sin is NOT the end for us as Latterday-Saints, but in many instances, is an opportunity to learn and improve ourselves so that we do not fall into that trap again that caused us to sin in the first place.  From what you described, it sounds as if you may need help beyond what you already have.

A final example from the days I spent near that military base in that military ward.  I had a combat unit in our ward.  Many of these young men would come home and have had terrible experiences.  These were challenges beyond what I've described above for their families.  This was an even greater challenge and one that they could not deal with on their own.  The military base had medical providers and other things to help families and military members cope and try to learn how to deal with these challenges.

In that same light, it sounds like there may be challenges in your marriage that are simply too hard for you to handle on your own.  It sounds as if you already have counseling, but if you do not, I strongly urge you to seek it out.  You may also seek counseling for couples, that include you and your husband.  I hope you can overcome the problems in your marriage.  It does not sound like it has been easy for you, but I hope that you can recognize that two wrongs do not make a right, and correct your course of action and strengthen your marriage once again.

You said you knew of his problem before you got married. You must have seen something in him back then, perhaps it is just a matter of remembering what it was you saw in him and rekindling that excitement and love you felt back then.  I hope you the best.

Edited September 24, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[anatess2]

On 9/18/2017 at 11:53 PM, In Idaho said:

I am not the sole reason there's no passion. I would love it if you wouldn't judge everything and assume you know the details about the situation. You know only small details of what I've said. Just like EVERY relationship, there's always more going on than you know about. So stop being a jerk.

 

On 9/18/2017 at 11:48 PM, In Idaho said:

I didn't read this whole novel and don't intend to. You have no idea what the rest of our marriage entails. You only know what I've told you. He kinda already knows something has happened he just doesn't know exactly and he already told me we'll work through it so before you assume you know everything about this situation, sit back and realize you have absolutely no idea all of everything that is happening

 

On 9/19/2017 at 1:24 AM, In Idaho said:

Thank you for the tone of your comments. It's refreshing to hear the side you need to hear in a way that has some compassion to it instead of condemnation. I understand what you're saying which is why I'm in counseling. I can't seem to let go of the hurt I've felt these past 5+ years. The moment I feel like I've got it under control, he'll mess up again and it all comes back which tells me I never got past it in the first place. I don't know how. I am currently figuring that out. 

 

On 9/19/2017 at 1:54 AM, In Idaho said:

Not the case. I came here looking for courage and help understanding what in the world I got myself into. I got that from everyone but two people so far and you are one of them. So please leave.

 

 

Starting from the Title of this thread - "Looking for advice not judgment" and on to these responses...

It's not hard to see why you're having problems with your marriage.  You have a problem facing difficult situations.  It's like a hurt cat.  The title of the thread alone already shows this.  You already put yourself in the defensive expecting people to want to hurt you with "judgment".  Even those going out of their way to spare you a few minutes of their time reading your posts and giving their opinions get the cat's claw.   You have zero tolerance for anything that doesn't quite fit what you want to hear and you respond with claws.  "Please leave"... that's very telling.

So, here's my advice... until the time you can face your own demons (this goes way before your husband's porn addiction), you will not find peace.  You will always get the claws out with every squeak.  This will make it difficult for both you and your husband to find peace.  Your husband will always do something wrong - even after he overcomes his porn addiction.  You will always respond with claws.  It's not going to change until you figure out a way to heal from whatever is causing those claws to come out.

Edited September 25, 2017 by anatess2