Dangerous Affection (Caution Long Post)

[Guest MormonGator]

10 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

I think you were dead on as well.  If anything I wasn't hard enough on OP's proposed behavior.

Thanks bud. Complaining that we were too tough on him is like a drunk driver hitting your car than instead of apologizing and seeing the error of his ways he demands you pay for his legal bills. 
 

Edited November 15, 2017 by MormonGator

[Guest]

I am just surprised that in the poll results, two people voted "yes [you should tell her], follow your passion".  That is just about the worst, most immoral advice I could think of in this situation, and I feel like anyone remotely calling themselves a Mormon should know this.

Edited November 15, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[zil]

8 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I am just surprised that in the poll results, two people voted "yes [you should tell her], follow your passion".  That is just about the worst, most immoral advice I could think of in this situation, and I feel like anyone remotely calling themselves a Mormon should know this.

They may not have been Mormons at all.  There are others on the site, including people who don't agree with our values.

Although, as @classylady pointed out, the simple impact on the two sisters and their family ought to be enough for any decent human being to reject the whole idea...

[Latter-Day Marriage]

1 hour ago, DoctorLemon said:

I am just surprised that in the poll results, two people voted "yes [you should tell her], follow your passion".  That is just about the worst, most immoral advice I could think of in this situation, and I feel like anyone remotely calling themselves a Mormon should know this.

Even with that, this place is refreshingly sane compared to other forums.  I've seen more than one LDS specific marriage/sex forum or discussion board where Mormons openly talk about how swinging and porn help their marriage and justify ditching the G's for date night so the wife can wear something revealing out in public because it turns her husband on to have other men give her attention.  And the mods put up with it.  I got kicked off of one for being a little too effective at refuting them.

[Midwest LDS]

Ugh that's awful @Latter-Day Marriage. I'm glad the moderators run a tighter ship here, I can't believe you would find mass encouragement to sin on an LDS specific site. 

[zil]

5 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Even with that, this place is refreshingly sane compared to other forums.

That's why I'm here - it was the only forum I could find where people who called themselves Mormon talked as if they really were.  (The others turned out to be wolves in sheepskin once you'd read enough.)

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Even with that, this place is refreshingly sane compared to other forums.  I've seen more than one LDS specific marriage/sex forum or discussion board where Mormons openly talk about how swinging and porn help their marriage and justify ditching the G's for date night so the wife can wear something revealing out in public because it turns her husband on to have other men give her attention.  And the mods put up with it.  I got kicked off of one for being a little too effective at refuting them.

Terrible.  Simply terrible.

[lostinwater]

Understandable reactions given the assumptions expressed about his motives.  But is everyone sure their assumptions are accurate?  Was his expectation really that everyone would pat him on the back?  This seems a very odd place to go for that.  Or was he just hoping to find a less involved third party to express his feelings to (rather than telling his family how he felt), and get someone to reinforce what he sort of already feels?  

If he were to go in for private therapy, would the therapist say what's been said here?  The message might be the same, but i can't imagine the delivery would be.  i hope not.

i'm not saying what he's suggested is OK.  And to be honest, i think he knows it too.  But i am just not sure everything that has been said here would make it more likely for him to make a good decision.  Who knows though - maybe i'm wrong and harshness is what is required in this situation.  But i think there might be a more acceptable middle ground that would better prevent him and his family pain and regret - which it seems like should be the goal.

[Guest MormonGator]

23 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

Understandable reactions given the assumptions expressed about his motives.  But is everyone sure their assumptions are accurate?  Was his expectation really that everyone would pat him on the back?  This seems a very odd place to go for that.  Or was he just hoping to find a less involved third party to express his feelings to (rather than telling his family how he felt), and get someone to reinforce what he sort of already feels?  

If he were to go in for private therapy, would the therapist say what's been said here?  The message might be the same, but i can't imagine the delivery would be.  i hope not.

 

 With all due respect this isn't therapy. Don't let him manipulate you into thinking we were lacking compassion or understanding.  

Edited November 15, 2017 by MormonGator

[lostinwater]

9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 With all due respect this isn't therapy. Don't let him manipulate you into thinking we were lacking compassion or understanding.  

Thanks - was worried i was going to get piled on for that response of mine.  Yes, good point.  i guess i don't see an attempt at manipulation.  Just a person who is trying to sort through some difficult feelings.  And i know for myself, two people can tell me the same thing, and one i react to by thinking , and the other i react to by getting mad and spiteful. 

But i suppose a lot of it stems out of the fact that i'm a bit of a pansy - and assume other's actions are born out of the same motives that would be required for me to act in a similar way.

[Guest MormonGator]

11 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

Thanks - was worried i was going to get piled on for that response of mine.  Yes, good point.  i guess i don't see an attempt at manipulation.  Just a person who is trying to sort through some difficult feelings.  And i know for myself, two people can tell me the same thing, and one i react to by thinking , and the other i react to by getting mad and spiteful. 

But i suppose a lot of it stems out of the fact that i'm a bit of a pansy - and assume other's actions are born out of the same motives that would be required for me to act in a similar way.

It doesn't make you a "pansy" my friend. I'm the farthest thing from traditionally masculine, so I do know what you mean. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

Thanks - was worried i was going to get piled on for that response of mine.  Yes, good point.  i guess i don't see an attempt at manipulation.  Just a person who is trying to sort through some difficult feelings.  And i know for myself, two people can tell me the same thing, and one i react to by thinking , and the other i react to by getting mad and spiteful. 

But i suppose a lot of it stems out of the fact that i'm a bit of a pansy - and assume other's actions are born out of the same motives that would be required for me to act in a similar way.

I think it's fine that you want to show compassion.  But even nectar can become poison when taken to excess.

It is a fine principle for me to talk to my children and teach them correct principles hoping that they will make wise decisions.  That's a wonderful way to parent.  And I hope I'm doing my part to fulfill that responsibility.  But if I see my kids running towards the highway with no sign of stopping.  I'm not going to try gentle persuasion to talk them back from the road.  I'm going to run full tilt at them and tackle them before they get too close to the road.  They may be a bit shaken up by my tackling them.  But they won't have gotten killed from the passing motorists.

[Guest MormonGator]

And don't get us wrong @lostinwater. Compassion is very important and yes, too often some people sneer at the word. They'll use it as a pejorative and act as cruelly as possible in the name of "truth". These are people who watch the commercials for St. Judes Children Hospital and sneer at the children. You know, people like @Vort. So compassion is highly noble and yes, too often some people think that just speaking the "truth"  gives them the right to act like as cruelly as possible. 

Some people use compassion as a weapon. If a bully keeps stealing your lunch money and pushing you around and you dare punch him back one time, he can accuse you of "not being compassionate". Don't let people manipulate you like that. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by MormonGator

[The Folk Prophet]

7 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I think it's fine that you want to show compassion.  But even nectar can become poison when taken to excess.

It is a fine principle for me to talk to my children and teach them correct principles hoping that they will make wise decisions.  That's a wonderful way to parent.  And I hope I'm doing my part to fulfill that responsibility.  But if I see my kids running towards the highway with no sign of stopping.  I'm not going to try gentle persuasion to talk them back from the road.  I'm going to run full tilt at them and tackle them before they get too close to the road.  They may be a bit shaken up by my tackling them.  But they won't have gotten killed from the passing motorists.

Bigot! That's hate speech!

[lostinwater]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

It doesn't make you a "pansy" my friend. I'm the farthest thing from traditionally masculine, so I do know what you mean. 

Happy to be a pansy .  Though the symmetry and purity of daisies makes them my first choice every time.

i guess everyone's essence sort of focuses on specific traits.  Gentleness, kindness, innocence, beauty, and purity are the ones i hope to perfect - ETA of a few trillion years seems an optimistic estimate, though i sincerely respect the traits i do not focus on - they are so necessary, as much as i huff and puff on occasion that they are not.  As noted before, my pansy pride is perhaps not always the ideal delivery mechanism.

Though i think it's a good thing that none of us succeed in our attempts at homogenization.  Perhaps we were always meant to be a bit unacceptable to each other, within the constructs of social acceptability - although there's a lot of discord about what exactly is a tolerable variance.

Edited November 15, 2017 by lostinwater

[person0]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

I'm the farthest thing from traditionally masculine

So the farthest thing on a spectrum would be the opposite.  So does that mean you are trying to tell us you are traditionally feminine?  

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, person0 said:

So the farthest thing on a spectrum would be the opposite.  So does that mean you are trying to tell us you are traditionally feminine?  

 I used to get called "effeminate" or "gay" in high school because I wasn't into cars/football/camping/hunting. I responded with "Your girlfriend knows how gay I am." 

Sure, it was a stupid and immature comment but I was 15 years old at the time. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by MormonGator

[Vort]

6 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

I am just surprised that in the poll results, two people voted "yes [you should tell her], follow your passion".  That is just about the worst, most immoral advice I could think of in this situation, and I feel like anyone remotely calling themselves a Mormon should know this.

You are suffering under the delusion that everyone takes the poll seriously.

[Grunt]

5 hours ago, lostinwater said:

Understandable reactions given the assumptions expressed about his motives.  But is everyone sure their assumptions are accurate?  Was his expectation really that everyone would pat him on the back?  This seems a very odd place to go for that.  Or was he just hoping to find a less involved third party to express his feelings to (rather than telling his family how he felt), and get someone to reinforce what he sort of already feels?  

If he were to go in for private therapy, would the therapist say what's been said here?  The message might be the same, but i can't imagine the delivery would be.  i hope not.

i'm not saying what he's suggested is OK.  And to be honest, i think he knows it too.  But i am just not sure everything that has been said here would make it more likely for him to make a good decision.  Who knows though - maybe i'm wrong and harshness is what is required in this situation.  But i think there might be a more acceptable middle ground that would better prevent him and his family pain and regret - which it seems like should be the goal.

I'm not a therapist.  I'm the good friend that kicks you in the nuts and drags you to the car when you are about to do something really stupid.

[estradling75]

Therapist's cost money...

MormonHub is free and open to just about anyone...

If you try to use MormonHub for therapy... You get what you pay for

[lostinwater]

28 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I'm not a therapist.  I'm the good friend that kicks you in the nuts and drags you to the car when you are about to do something really stupid.

Thanks.  Good point.  Put in those terms, with that motivation, hard to have any qualms with that.  i know a few people that that course of action might do more harm than good in - but certainly understand what you are saying.

[Bad Karma]

10 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Even with that, this place is refreshingly sane compared to other forums.  I've seen more than one LDS specific marriage/sex forum or discussion board where Mormons openly talk about how swinging and porn help their marriage and justify ditching the G's for date night so the wife can wear something revealing out in public because it turns her husband on to have other men give her attention.  And the mods put up with it.  I got kicked off of one for being a little too effective at refuting them.

ANY husband that would share his wife with another is a creep. A LOW "man",  an oath breaker, a pervert. One can NOT call themselves LDS and be a swinger, how they think swinging makes their marriage better is insane. You can't REALLY know your wife at all, if you're messing around or having another mess around with her. There's a friendship and trust that grows out of absolute monogamy. 

My wife and I were talking today about monogamy, I'm glad I can give her a husband who's body belongs to her alone. Such a violation would bring endless tears to her beautiful face. Nope, not happening. She's just too important to me, she's that person that I would crawl on my hands and knees through five miles of broken glass for to get to her if she needed me. 

A so called LDS forum where that kind of talk is not only acceptable, but the norm, isn't a forum worth visiting, who wants to read that kind rubbish? Bleh....

 

 

 

 

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, Bad Karma said:

ANY husband that would share his wife with another is a creep. A LOW "man",  an oath breaker, a pervert. One can NOT call themselves LDS and be a swinger, how they think swinging makes their marriage better is insane. You can't REALLY know your wife at all, if you're messing around or having another mess around with her. There's a friendship and trust that grows out of absolute monogamy. 

My wife and I were talking today about monogamy, I'm glad I can give her a husband who's body belongs to her alone. Such a violation would bring endless tears to her beautiful face. Nope, not happening. She's just too important to me, she's that person that I would crawl on my hands and knees through five miles of broken glass for to get to her if she needed me. 

A so called LDS forum where that kind of talk is not only acceptable, but the norm, isn't a forum worth visiting, who wants to read that kind rubbish? Bleh....

 

 

 

 

Ayayay... hang on a minute.  Let's qualify this here.  As you know, we had polygamous prophets.  So, absolute monogamy is only as God instructs... which can change.

[Bad Karma]

Just now, anatess2 said:

Ayayay... hang on a minute.  Let's qualify this here.  As you know, we had polygamous prophets.  So, absolute monogamy is only as God instructs... which can change.

Ok, I'll give you that. but we're not talking about polygamy, we're talking about swingers. and still, any man that would share his wife with another is still a punk.  So, we've already received instruction from the prophet no more polygamy. This is our doctrine. 

Now, would you want another woman in your house that you would have to share your husband with? 

[anatess2]

12 minutes ago, Bad Karma said:

Now, would you want another woman in your house that you would have to share your husband with? 

If, like Joseph Smith, God would tell my husband he has to take on another wife... in a heartbeat.  I need help with the laundry.