Lie, Misunderstanding, or Blunt Truth

[clbent04]

10 hours ago, brlenox said:

Have you looked into the addiction programs that the church now offers? 

I attended once or twice several months ago. It didn’t really do much for me, but in fairness, maybe it would have if I stuck with it. The class and material just seemed dry, but maybe I wasn’t humble enough to receive the instruction? I still have the Addiction Recovery booklet so maybe I’ll try going through it on my own, or try another ARP class hosted by a different ward to see if I connect better with the teacher

[Vort]

38 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

David O' Mckay

The super-Irishman! Actually, his name was David Oman McKay. FYI.

[brlenox]

1 hour ago, clbent04 said:

I attended once or twice several months ago. It didn’t really do much for me, but in fairness, maybe it would have if I stuck with it. The class and material just seemed dry, but maybe I wasn’t humble enough to receive the instruction? I still have the Addiction Recovery booklet so maybe I’ll try going through it on my own, or try another ARP class hosted by a different ward to see if I connect better with the teacher

I have worked with a few people on getting through these issues.  I do recommend the church's approach as continuity is extremely important.  There are a couple of pointers I would share if you don't mind.

I do sympathize with your issues.  They are terribly debilitating and cause a tremendous blight on the spirit of a man. The issue that must be observed is that most cannot just quit but will fail from time to time.  When you fall - get up.  For as many years as it takes - get up. I'm just going to use Porn as the presumed addiction for this discussion.

Generally before one falls there are a couple of things that occur first.  If you just happen on something salacious it say while looking or clicking on a link from a news article that takes you to the Daily News or Huffington Post websites.  English news is so much more visually oriented in a titillating sort of way. However, you have about 3 seconds to shut that window down before it will take hold.  Though the material may not be porn it is adequate enough to stir up the mind and then you are caught. 

When you read online news avoid the articles about teachers seducing students and rape etc.  It starts very slowly but again it starts to capture the mind, even though the material is not "wrong" per se at all, it starts to create images that will not leave you alone.

There is another issue that Neil A. Maxwell used to warn about.  He referred to it as dalliance.  It is where you don't really have any particular intent, you are just passing the moments by fleeting from one thing to another until all of the sudden you have subconsciously put yourself in harms way again. In this day and age frequently this is computer dalliance. Dalliance is one of the biggest issues I have noticed that those striving to overcome get involved with.  They start out with no intent to do wrong at all and that why sometimes Satan will bring an interesting point in your mind that has nothing to do with porn but by and by he will lead you down a path until through dalliance he has you again.  Maybe the thought will be go to Youtube and listen to some music or something. For some people this is the start of the fall.  We have to get smarter than his wiles to ever turn us. When you notice this starting up it is best to physically remove yourself from the area and find another person to engage in conversation or throw ball with the children or something to get your mind back.

Finally, the greatest tool of all is your priesthood.  If you note a thought enter your mind that is going to lead to trouble it is perfectly acceptable to raise your hand to the square and cast that tempter out. One week in one of our Bishop's meetings where we met with the Stake Presidency the stake president took about 30 minutes to teach us this principle to assist the Bishops in maintaining the level of virtue in thought that would facilitate their callings.  He stated that we might have to cast Satan out 5 or 10 times a day on occasion but that if we would do this and then when possible quickly engage in some other activity that we would be amazed that hours later we would look back and note how instantly we were freed from the tempters voice.  This works every time ... If you are sincere in truly wanting to be free. Couple this with anytime you shut down a window as mentioned above or anytime you feel even the slightest nudge of the adversary.  Don't sit and fantasize for twenty minutes and then as a last ditch effort try this but do it immediately the moment you feel the slightest bit of any thoughts you need to be rid of. 

All of this presumes you are repentant and have been addressing the issues with your Bishop as required.  There is no strength or priesthood power in transgression so if you fall, repent immediately and work as necessary with your Bishop.  One other thought, and try to understand what I am saying because it sounds kind of odd.  Sometimes when you fall, you are always hopefully immediately remorseful however you may not be clear of the woods yet. Pray for strength but even those prayers should not dwell on the points of failure and in fact maybe should be short while you get away to find some distraction with others or family or something. 

Anyway, enough for now.  Try to get back in the Church group and make it work.  Too much at stake not too. 

 

NOTE: One more thing, if your smart phone is an issue then it is best to change out and find an old flip phone or such that puts that temptation out of reach for the time being.  When you are stronger you can handle such but in the beginning it can be too easy.

Edited January 5, 2018 by brlenox
Phone etiquette

[JohnsonJones]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

The super-Irishman! Actually, his name was David Oman McKay. FYI.

Ach...you're right.  The drugs must be making me loopy!!!

I still have about three days worth of them.

It's actually just a recall mistake of mine today.  I think David O. Mckay would be O'McKay with that M'Stake though.  (or not...).

Doesn't it seem sometimes it was just yesterday that he was the Prophet.  Time flies.

Testimony of David O. Mckay

Edited January 5, 2018 by JohnsonJones
Youtube video didn't show up...so adding title to youtube link...

[clbent04]

12 hours ago, zil said:

#1 & 2 - you need help, addiction-recovery style help.  Get it.  Do not try to do this alone, won't work.  No one can overcome actual addiction by themselves (bad habits, maybe, but not addiction).

I would not be opposed to finding help. I’ve been to an LDS counselor/psychologist for a couple months in the past on my own dime, and I briefly attended ARP. The guys in the ARP class were struggling with alcohol and drugs, so it just seemed out of place for me being the only one there attending for a pornography addiction. I understand addiction is addiction, but at the same time it would be nice to find a group that specifically focuses on recovery from pornography addiction.

12 hours ago, zil said:

#3 - as you have learned, you cannot pray away another person's agency.  This doesn't mean that your prayer wasn't heard, only that God could not take away your sister's agency, nor the man's.

When I slow down and think about the situation with my little sister and how it’s affected my view on prayer, I come to the same realization you said that we can’t pray away someone’s agency. I know I shouldn’t let it be another one of my excuses inhibiting my relationship with God, but it’s affected me nonetheless.

12 hours ago, zil said:

#4 - see #1 and #2.

I truly believe it doesn't matter where you are, nor how far you've come, but whether you are persistent in turning back to God, repenting and forgiving.  If you can keep doing those two things, one day, you'll reach your goal.

This is a common message I seem to be receiving from most on this thread that gives me hope. Thanks. I know most of you are more advanced in the gospel than I am, so it’s reassuring when I hear from someone like you that as long as I keep trying and don’t give up, there’s hope for me yet.

But I still need to reconcile what I know, or think I know, about the Law of Chastity. I thought I made reasonable gospel connections before about the Law of Chasity, and how mastery to it was essential in this life before having a chance to advance to the Celestial Kingdom hereafter.  And again, to qualify what I consider mastery, it includes things like not willingly lusting in your heart and not viewing pornography.  But I haven’t heard from anyone on this thread that it’s an automatic block from the Celestial Kindgom if we leave this life never having completely mastered avoiding those two things. Am I hearing that correctly?  The Law of Chasity is after all very serious.  I’m not looking to water down the strictness of Law of Chasity here. I want to understand the seriousness of the Law of Chasity as it really is. 

If we truly don’t have to overcome willingly lusting in our hearts in this life (taking that second you knew you shouldn’t have, indulging an impure thought...), then that would give me hope for myself. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by clbent04

[clbent04]

Part of my understanding of the Law of Chasity was solidified from a pre-marriage meeting my wife and I had with our singles ward bishop. In his office he posed the question to us of why the Law of Chasity is uniquely focused on in the temple. I responded to him that I believed the Law of Chasity to be the most defining test when it came to sifting the wheat from the tares from the Celestial Kingdom to anything less. He paused and then responded that my answer was the best answer he had ever heard. My intent isn’t to prop myself up here, but more so to make the point my bishop had validated and subsequently solidified my thinking about the Law of Chasity. This would later negatively affect me in how I viewed my own eternal welfare as I continued to struggle with my addiction to viewing pornography. 

So how do I reconcile my own likely trajectory path of not being able to master the Law of Chasity in this life, my conversation with my bishop, and my view of not having a chance at Celestial Glory?

Edited January 5, 2018 by clbent04

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Part of my understanding of the Law of Chasity was solidified from a pre-marriage meeting my wife and I had with our singles ward bishop. In his office he posed the question to us of why the Law of Chasity is uniquely focused on in the temple. I responded to him that I believed the Law of Chasity to be the most defining test when it came to sifting the wheat from the tares from the Celestial Kingdom to anything less. He paused and then responded that my answer was the best answer he had ever heard. My intent isn’t to prop myself up here, but more so to make the point my bishop had validated and subsequently solidified my thinking about the Law of Chasity. This would later negatively affect me in how I viewed my own eternal welfare as I continued to struggle with my addiction to viewing pornography. 

So how do I reconcile my own likely trajectory path of not being able to master the Law of Chasity in this life, my conversation with my bishop, and my view of not having a chance at Celestial Glory?

When it comes to stuff like pornography, if you keep on relapsing, the most important thing is you keep getting back up and repenting.  I think someone who struggles with pornography their entire life will be OK if they keep on getting up and repenting, even if they never make it a full year or whatever of being sober before dying.  It is the willingness to keep on trying, keep on fighting, keep on working with the bishop and keep on repenting that is the most important thing.  (If you do this long enough, sooner or later you will conquer the sin once and for all).

So the real question isn't if you have conquered the pornography once and for all.  The real question is . . . have you gotten back up after relapsing?  Have you continued to try to repent?  Are you still actively working with your bishop?

Edited January 5, 2018 by DoctorLemon

[pam]

3 hours ago, Grunt said:

I refuse to live in a world where someone like @pam can have problems.

You might as well give up on life now. 

[clbent04]

Thanks for the response  @JohnsonJonesYou are a bishop I take it? 

Now that I’m hearing answers from everyone opposite to what I expected, as much as it does give me hope hearing that I’m wrong on this subject, I am tempted to take this same question to my current bishop and have it pushed up to the stake president for double confirmation.

I would write down this exact question to my bishop to confirm the answer on this subject:

Is it possibly for someone to have the chance of obtaining Celestial Glory who never mastered the Law of Chastity in this life? Or more specifically, if that person never overcame the battle of lust, viewing of pornography, or the act of masturbating in this life, would that person still have the chance of making it to the Celestial Kingdom considering the following criteria was met:

-They had faith in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and His Atonement

-They continued to repent throughout their lives with real intent to change for the best even though they never ended up being successful at completely avoiding pornography and masturbating

Edited January 5, 2018 by clbent04

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Is it possibly for someone to have the chance of obtaining Celestial Glory who never mastered the Law of Chastity in this life? Or more specifically, if that person never overcame the battle of lust, viewing of pornography, or the act of masturbating in this life, would that person still have the chance of making it to the Celestial Kingdom considering the following criteria was met:

-They had faith in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and His Atonement

-They continued to repent throughout their lives with real intent to change for the best even though they never ended up being successful at completely avoiding pornography and masturbating

I believe it is possible, indeed likely, as long as you are continually trying, contiually striving to overcome the challenges you have. If you do all in your power and still can't make it, Christ fills in the void and makes it possible for you to obtain Celestial glory. That is why we have the atonement.

[Guest]

And @clbent04 don't ever give up hope that someday in this lifetime, you will be able to overcome the challenges you are facing right now. 

An experiance I would like to share regarding the atonement. It doesn't have to do with pornography so maybe you won't see the similarities, but I want to share how the atonement worked in my life.

My mother passed away when I was young, making it so that I was raised by my aunt and uncle. My uncle was emotionally, verbally, spiritually and in a couple of instances physically abusive to me (most likely  he had bipolar or some kind of personality disorder). I grew to hate him. I mean really really hate him. The hate inside me literally was eating me up. It was overpowering. For everyhing he did I really had reason to hate him. But it was destroying my life. I prayed, pleaded with the Lord, went to the temple,  got counceling, talked with my bishop, tried to do everything to overcome the hate but nothing could get rid of it, I came to believe that maybe I would never be able to forgive him in the life time.

And then one day he got really sick to the point where he it seemed like he might die. I was over at the house when they were about to take him to the hospital and when I saw him laying on the stretcher, suddenly the hated within me was taken away. It was if Christ came and literally plucked the hate from my heart. I have no other ways to explain it. It was the most freeing experiance ai habe ever had.

I ended up actually helping him as he aged, and we became very close. Some people that knew of the struggles I had faced never could understand the transformation in me (in fact they still don't). All I can tell them to explain it is, the atonement. There was no way I could do it on my own, even when I did all that I could do. And one day, when I didn't even expect it, the atonement lifted my burden.

I know our stories are different, my story has nothing to do with the law of chastity, so I hope you dont mind me sharing. But i do believe they are the same because it is a burden we carried or carry. Your addiction, my hatred would keep us out of the Celestial Kingdom. I fully believe whether it be now, later or even when you get to the other side, if you do all you can do, Christ will take this burden from you. For now, you have to keep trying, you can't give up, hold on and endure to the end and Christ will fill in the rest, he will make you whole.

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by miav

[JohnsonJones]

2 hours ago, clbent04 said:

I would write down this exact question to my bishop to confirm the answer on this subject:

Is it possibly for someone to have the chance of obtaining Celestial Glory who never mastered the Law of Chastity in this life? Or more specifically, if that person never overcame the battle of lust, viewing of pornography, or the act of masturbating in this life, would that person still have the chance of making it to the Celestial Kingdom considering the following criteria was met:

-They had faith in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and His Atonement

-They continued to repent throughout their lives with real intent to change for the best even though they never ended up being successful at completely avoiding pornography and masturbating

I would answer yes, it is possible.

If you look around your ward, you are probably looking at several who have the exact same problem as you do.  Many do not realize how prevalent this problem is in the church currently (at least in my personal experiences).  The same would apply with word of wisdom difficulties (which are far more widespread than some may imagine as well), or other difficulties.

Another personal story of mine.  My family (not my kids or my wife, they are LDS) is not LDS.  One of those who was closest and most receptive to the gospel was my cousin.  He also was a homosexual.  He did EVERYTHING in this life to try to overcome this obstacle...and I mean everything.  Any treatment that was promoted by the LDS church and others, he tried.  Many would be surprised at how far he (and others like him who were already in the LDS church) went to try to overcome this.  Sadly, he never overcame it.  No matter how hard he tried, he just could not beat this.  He kept on trying, as far as I know, to his dying day.  I was horrified at some of the things he did to try to overcome homosexuality.  I would even say he went to extremes

Now, I may be conservative to a degree in my views on how one might become homosexual, but I KNOW he tried his best and did all he could continuously to overcome this obstacle.  As far as I know, he remained celibate his entire life.  He kept on trying his best.  He was also homosexual to the day he died.

With all that effort, is there anyone who would condemn him or his efforts?  Perhaps, but I am NOT one of them.  I think he stands a chance of being saved, just like the rest of us.  He probably tried far harder then anything I've ever had to struggle with.  I firmly believe he was a good person. 

Sometimes sin may define a person, but many times...it does NOT.  The person defines WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT GOOD THEY WILL DO IN THE WORLD.  Even if you are never successful at beating it, but you keep trying and repent all your life and do your best to live the gospel and it's commandments and I think you have a genuinely good chance of obtaining the Celestial Glory. 

 

PS:  On my cousin...as an aside, he had one other difficulty as well, one which I also see many cannot get over, even if they want to, which is smoking.  I believe he may have finally been able to beat that one near the end of his life, but earlier in life he still smoked.  We would play cards at our grandmother's table (with an uncle occasionally who also was homosexual, interestingly enough) and he would occasionally smoke.  Part of it was that my entire family smokes except for me (Not my wife and children, but the others in my family who are not members) and so everyone else would be smoking as well.  That probably made it harder for him to quit that addiction in those years.

My sin, though I never drink it, is I still yearn for a cup of coffee.  I don't ever touch the stuff, but at times I think I would love to.  I sure hope in these instances our intent, which for me is to never touch a cup of coffee much less drink it, is taken into account rather than what sometimes is found in the yearnings of our heart.  My own efforts mean that I don't even drink Hot Chocolate or any hot beverage these days.  I stay as far away as I can, and I repent of my yearnings as much as I can.  None of us are perfect, and I am a prime example of being imperfect.  I just have faith and pray and repent as much as I can.  If you would be condemned for your failings, it is possible I would be just as much condemned for mine.  I have faith though, that the Lord's atonement can take away my sins as I repent, even though I still have those cravings to this day.  I know the same is applicable to you.

[Grunt]

9 hours ago, clbent04 said:

If we truly don’t have to overcome willingly lusting in our hearts in this life (taking that second you knew you shouldn’t have, indulging an impure thought...), then that would give me hope for myself. 

 

Who cares?  Really.  What difference does it make?  You're looking too far down the road.  Right now, you need to look at following the Law of Chastity TODAY.  Then wake up in the morning, and worry about following the Law of Chastity THAT DAY.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  

How do you eat an elephant?  One bite at a time.  

You're in public with your family.  Your children are expecting to watch a movie when they get home.  They act poorly, so you say "if you keep acting like this, there will be no movie".  Will they be perfect for the rest of the day?  Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  But at the end of the day YOU, their father, will judge their effort and reward them if they are worthy.

I firmly believe Heavenly Father will judge OUR effort, not our perfection.  

[Dman]

I really only have one word for the formulation of this revelation that is anti-pornography and anti viewing of pornography and that word is erotocentrism. The research on this subject is clear that pornography is not addictive...neither is sex in general...some people simply like it more than others. I have yet to hear of anyone dying from either an overdose or withdrawal to sex or pornography...I guess the jury is still out on that except for the professionals who drafted the current diagnostic and statistical manual of mental health disorders (DSM-V). We can all agree that evolution is real through science yet when we talk about psychology/psychiatry many bulk by claiming that these fields of study are soft or even pseudo science. Truth is that they are borderland...but I would argue that this field through brain and body scanning in various ways are becoming increasingly closer to hard science as technology advances. Mormons can hate on pornography all they want but if it decreases sexual crimes worldwide (and it does) then it is ok in my book. Said in another way, if my daughter and your daughters don't get raped at the Y because of pornography I'll take that as a win for humanity.

[clbent04]

On 1/4/2018 at 8:50 AM, Grunt said:

You are your own worst enemy at this point, likely through no fault of your own.  You're listening to Satan.  Stop.  It's frustrating, to me at least, to see you argue and make excuses, choosing to focus on matters that won't help you at this point when the ANSWER is so blatantly obvious to us all.  

The path is not easy, but it is THE path.  We can't make you follow it.  Personally, I believe answering all these questions you have is a waste of time and actually hurts more than it helps.  It's why I won't participate.  It's why you obviously don't like me.  You're asking us for the solution to an advanced algebra problem and others are trying to answer it for you.  It's senseless because you can't even add and subtract right now.  

Read the Scripture.

Pray

Go to church

Call your Bishop.  Not tomorrow.  Not talk to him in church Sunday.  Call him, or anyone else in a position to help you, today.

This at least clarifies to me where you were coming from before with continually questioning the motive of my questioning.

All things considered, I don’t think you are as ill-natured toward me as I previously suspected. You’ve just had some occasional judgemental comments here and there that have confused me regarding your intentions of posting on my questions.

One thing you should understand is I have two different types of questions I post on this website. Questions I simply find interesting that have no bearing on my relationship with God, and questions that do. Most of the questions I post on this website are on topics I just find interesting. Yes, Mormon religious topics are at the top of my list of what interests me. Whatever perspective I receive from others regarding my lighter topics of interest has no bearing on my relationship with God.

In fairness to you, you probably have no idea which of my questions are serious and which are simply posted out of curiousity, hence the continual questioning. This particular post is one of the few that is not just for fun. So with these kind of more serious posts, I do find your matter-of-fact, no-nonsense answers to be helpful.

Thanks for the advice. I followed it and contacted my Bishop that very day.

Edited January 6, 2018 by clbent04

[mollymormon77]

I'm not sure my question is on topic, but this topic is about honesty so I'm hoping I am in the correct forum. My question is this - I just found out my 7- year -olds new primary teachers  (Man and Woman) are not married, but living together. The man was the only one called to be the primary teacher, not his girlfriend (both in their late 40-early 50's and previously divorced from other spouses), they just called him to be the teacher not her because they are not married  -   but they teach as a couple.  I found out through doing a little research of my own and asking around that they actually living together in the same house - not in separate homes as they have been telling people. She has lied about her home address,  (on lds.org my Ward Directory) she has listed her home address  different that his, but the address she listed as hers is actually His elderly parents home address.  So here is my burning question - I don't feel comfortable having them teach my child the gospel when they are living in sin. I'm not judging - its none of my business if they want to live together, but I don't feel they are worthy for a primary calling. What are your thoughts? I am going to tell the Bishop next week, and would like any advice. Thanks

Edited January 8, 2018 by mollymormon77

[wenglund]

On 1/4/2018 at 10:36 PM, clbent04 said:

Thanks for the response  @JohnsonJonesYou are a bishop I take it? 

Now that I’m hearing answers from everyone opposite to what I expected, as much as it does give me hope hearing that I’m wrong on this subject, I am tempted to take this same question to my current bishop and have it pushed up to the stake president for double confirmation.

I would write down this exact question to my bishop to confirm the answer on this subject:

Is it possibly for someone to have the chance of obtaining Celestial Glory who never mastered the Law of Chastity in this life? Or more specifically, if that person never overcame the battle of lust, viewing of pornography, or the act of masturbating in this life, would that person still have the chance of making it to the Celestial Kingdom considering the following criteria was met:

-They had faith in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and His Atonement

-They continued to repent throughout their lives with real intent to change for the best even though they never ended up being successful at completely avoiding pornography and masturbating

May I offer a couple of suggestions in addition to the several excellent ones offered here?

1. Take a break from the computer and from fantasizing--kind of like telling an alcoholic to stay away from bars.

2. Don't just try and end an old habit. Instead, concurrently try and replace the old bad habit with a new good habit. Replace porn with simple acts of kindness, or something along those lines. What you will essentially be doing is replacing failures with success, which will make giving up the failures far more likely.

2. Don't think that the replacement of habits will take indefinitely. Have confidence that, according to solid science, habits can be replaced between two months and eight months, with an average of 66 days (though I would say 90). (see HERE) Few people have the will power to last indefinitely, but we all can last several months. At the very least, our chances of succeeding are increased when we can see an end in sight.

4. Understand how and why your bad habit is so powerful, and how it is or will affect you physiologically if you don't stop. In other words, balance he real negatives against the artificial positives of the habit  Here is a good resource: Your Brain on Porn: Tools for Change. 

5. And this is most important. Don't try to assess your spiritual future or your faith by processing it through the distorted filter of an unchaste and porn-ridden mind. The output will only be misery and hopelessness. Rather, turn that over to inspired leaders, as others have suggested. Your mind and heart and spirit are in no condition to make spiritual sense or do yourself justice--as evidneced by some of what you have said in this thread 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited January 8, 2018 by wenglund

[clbent04]

10 hours ago, mollymormon77 said:

I don't feel comfortable having them teach my child the gospel when they are living in sin. 

As long as there’s ZERO indication that they don’t abuse their trust as teachers to your children, I wouldn’t raise the issue any further than just letting the Bishop know they are living together.

If the Bishop decides to not revoke their callings and you are still bothered by the issue, ask yourself why.  If it’s a matter of living in sin, we all live in sin, whether it be living together as an unmarried couple, being judgmental, prideful, selfish...

[Guest MormonGator]

15 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

As long as there’s ZERO indication that they don’t abuse their trust as teachers to your children, I wouldn’t raise the issue any further than just letting the Bishop know they are living together.

If the Bishop decides to not revoke their callings and you are still bothered by the issue, ask yourself why.  If it’s a matter of living in sin, we all live in sin, whether it be living together as an unmarried couple, being judgmental, prideful, selfish...

Amen. 

 

[zil]

10 hours ago, mollymormon77 said:

So here is my burning question - I don't feel comfortable having them teach my child the gospel when they are living in sin. I'm not judging - its none of my business if they want to live together, but I don't feel they are worthy for a primary calling. What are your thoughts? I am going to tell the Bishop next week, and would like any advice. Thanks

Talk to your bishop.  He is the one with keys to decide what should happen.

Talk to the Lord regarding what you should do in regards to your child who's in the class.

[NeuroTypical]

Yep, the two steps:

1- tell the bishop.
2- let it go.

#2 can be seven times harder than #1, but it's also the most important for your soul.

[Guest MormonGator]

Quick story: 

I remember a group of mothers gossiping about another mother when I was in 7th grade. I went to an orthodox Catholic school full of people who loved to poke their nose in others lives looking for sinful behavior. It turned out this mother had two kids but never wore a wedding ring. One mother spoke to the principal, and the principal told her, "It's because her husband died several years ago in a car accident." Upon leaving the office I'm sure this woman felt ten feet tall and full of pride and joy. 

Granted, your situation is different-but remember that we don't know all the details and looks can be deceiving. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by MormonGator

[Grunt]

1 hour ago, clbent04 said:

As long as there’s ZERO indication that they don’t abuse their trust as teachers to your children, I wouldn’t raise the issue any further than just letting the Bishop know they are living together.

If the Bishop decides to not revoke their callings and you are still bothered by the issue, ask yourself why.  If it’s a matter of living in sin, we all live in sin, whether it be living together as an unmarried couple, being judgmental, prideful, selfish...

I JUST had this talk with a missionary this week.  It really humbled me.  It stemmed from a woman at church (long time member) who just had a child with the man she lives with, and is always giving parenting advice   I was in a GE class with her when we were discussing being an example for our children   

How do we know what is happening in someone’s life?  They clearly know they are living in sin.  They clearly know the ward judges them for it.  Yet every Sunday they come to church, accept a calling, and serve Christ the best they can with whatever hand they were dealt.  

How embarrassing it must be trying to be active in a ward knowing you are openly not perfect.  I don’t know if I would have the strength to do all that I can as I try to make myself better knowing what people were thinking.  How much easier it would be to just fall away.  Yet she doesn’t. 

[omegaseamaster75]

On 1/4/2018 at 9:36 PM, clbent04 said:

Is it possibly for someone to have the chance of obtaining Celestial Glory who never mastered the Law of Chastity in this life? Or more specifically, if that person never overcame the battle of lust, viewing of pornography, or the act of masturbating in this life, would that person still have the chance of making it to the Celestial Kingdom considering the following criteria was met:

-They had faith in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and His Atonement

-They continued to repent throughout their lives with real intent to change for the best even though they never ended up being successful at completely avoiding pornography and masturbating

1. Let's take alcoholismism as an example. Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic, Just because you stop drinking  does not make you not an alcoholic.  People go to AA meetings all of their lives to help stay dry.  I suspect for a true alcoholic the desire never really goes away.

I will further this and address your what ifs- Yes an alcoholic can make it to the celestial kingdom if they have faith in God the Father, Jesus Christ and his Atonement, furthermore if they continue to repent throughout their lives with real intent to change even if they have relapses but get up and keep fighting the good fight God will forgive them.

One day at a time buddy don't project so far out into the future especially if something like this where we don't really know the end outcome of things.

 

[NightSG]

13 hours ago, mollymormon77 said:

I'm not sure my question is on topic, but this topic is about honesty so I'm hoping I am in the correct forum. My question is this - I just found out my 7- year -olds new primary teachers  (Man and Woman) are not married, but living together. The man was the only one called to be the primary teacher, not his girlfriend (both in their late 40-early 50's and previously divorced from other spouses), they just called him to be the teacher not her because they are not married  -   but they teach as a couple.  I found out through doing a little research of my own and asking around that they actually living together in the same house - not in separate homes as they have been telling people. She has lied about her home address,  (on lds.org my Ward Directory) she has listed her home address  different that his, but the address she listed as hers is actually His elderly parents home address.  So here is my burning question - I don't feel comfortable having them teach my child the gospel when they are living in sin. I'm not judging - its none of my business if they want to live together, but I don't feel they are worthy for a primary calling. What are your thoughts? I am going to tell the Bishop next week, and would like any advice. Thanks

After a lie like that, you've got no standing to complain about anyone else living in sin.