No more games in Sacrament

[Grunt]

3 hours ago, JayKi said:

If is your phone then I agree, but at some age is important people realise even if no immediate consequence is still bad. If a teenager always get immediate punishment or repercussion they never learn if they do bad thing and don't get punishment what they do is still bad. Like to listen in sacrament only because of avoid punishment doesn't teach the importance to listen, just to do it to avoid punishment or repercussion. Is has to come from the person.    

Of course it teaches the importance to listen.  You don't discipline your children and not tell them why.  Children are children.  It is my job to educate them.

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, JayKi said:

I think teach when children and once they are teenager they know right and wrong thing to do. Once teenager is okay to make choice to listen or play on phone, they know they miss out already. 

Apparently it didn't work with you.

[JayKi]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Apparently it didn't work with you.

I don't go on phone during sacrament usually I leave it at home for church. When I was teenage I did go on phone during sacrament but I realise is good for me to listen and now I do that. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JayKi said:

I don't go on phone during sacrament usually I leave it at home for church. When I was teenage I did go on phone during sacrament but I realise is good for me to listen and now I do that. 

Yeah.  That's exactly what I was talking about.

[JayKi]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Yeah.  That's exactly what I was talking about.

Then it did work on me. 

[Crypto]

I think it is good to implement a blocklist on the high bandwidth sites. Anti sites and some other social media sites have been blocked for years.  Have you ever been to church needing to use church materials and the internet is too slow until everyone leaves? I have. 🙋‍♂️ Not everyone knows about VPN's. Missionaries use facebook often at church buildings, not gonna get blocked as it currently stands. It's an annoyance for things to be blocked, but ultimately it makes good sense. (Bandwidth, $$, Attention, Security)

On the other hand I very much disagree about parents neglecting proper parenting and banning technology rather than teaching children how to use it properly. I have a hard enough time trying to get the youth to bring their devices to class so we can GASP use it properly...because of the parents.

 

[Crypto]

On 5/3/2018 at 11:50 AM, Vort said:

I honestly don't understand. If you have raised your children with any amount of discipline, what teenager would not hand over "his" (read: your) phone when instructed?

And if they said "no", the conversation would lead to steadily worse consequences for them.

Parent: Give me your phone.
Teen: No.
Parent: I'm not asking. Give me your phone now.
Teen: No.
Parent: If you want to act like an obstinate six-year-old, you will be treated like one. You are grounded. You may not leave the house except for school. Your phone will be cut off, and you will not get it back.
Teen: That's not fair!
Parent: That is how we have to treat our recalcitrant six-year-olds. They can't make mature decisions for themselves, so we do it for them.
Teen: I hate you!
Parent: Okay, you're allowed to hate me. But you're not allowed to say it. Now your grounding is extended for the rest of the month.
Teen: That's not fair!
Parent: Seriously, you need to stop right now. You don't want this to go on any longer.
Teen: You suck!
Parent: Now you are confined to your bedroom. Go.
Teen: You can't make me!
Parent (who can make him): Do you really want to test that theory?
Parent (who can't make him): I do not want to get outside authority like the police involved. That would be terrible and might tear our family apart. But I will, if you refuse to obey me.
<etc.>

I understand that there are some hardheaded, obstinate teens who defy their parents to their face. Why their parents put up with it, I can't imagine. If you love the child, you will do what is in his best interest, even if that means he leaves. Some people refuse to learn except by nasty, heartbreaking personal experience. So be it. Better they learn by sad experience than that they don't learn at all.

The teenager in this conversation seems to have a lot of power at getting a reaction... It is a good example of being stern, but...

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Crypto said:

I think it is good to implement a blocklist on the high bandwidth sites. Anti sites and some other social media sites have been blocked for years.  Have you ever been to church needing to use church materials and the internet is too slow until everyone leaves? I have. 🙋‍♂️ Not everyone knows about VPN's. Missionaries use facebook often at church buildings, not gonna get blocked as it currently stands. It's an annoyance for things to be blocked, but ultimately it makes good sense. (Bandwidth, $$, Attention, Security)

I agree.

Quote

On the other hand I very much disagree about parents neglecting proper parenting and banning technology rather than teaching children how to use it properly. I have a hard enough time trying to get the youth to bring their devices to class so we can GASP use it properly...because of the parents.

Why can't people simply bring hard copy scriptures like they used to?  I specifically don't give my kids electronics until they are older because I don't want them to over use them.  Their brains are still forming.  Their personalities are still forming.  The marginal benefit to have them is overshadowed by the negative consequences.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Guest

[Guest MormonGator]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I agree.

Why can't people simply bring hard copy scriptures like they used to?  I specifically don't give my kids electronics until they are older because I don't want them to over use them.  Their brains are still forming.  Their personalities are still forming.  The marginal benefit to have them is overshadowed by the negative consequences.

 Would you allow them to have a Kindle with only scripture on it? Curious. 

[Vort]

On 5/2/2018 at 2:43 PM, mgridle said:

Well I wouldn't call most people an idiot to their face either; however, I have no problem when talking in a third-party context about so-and-so being an idiot.  [...]  Point being most of us refrain from using those types of words face-to-face but we will use them in a third-party context.

True enough that a literal face-to-face meeting is different from e.g. online conversations. Many times on this very forum, I have conversed in a way I would almost certainly not have done in a face-to-face situation.

But it's the "third-party" thing I'm talking about. In most cases, I prefer not to talk about people behind their backs, even (especially) if I disapprove of their actions or don't like them. The exception is when I'm reporting a bad thing someone has done, in which case I'm just fine and dandy talking about their bad actions behind their backs -- but in that case, I'd say the same to them directly if I cc'ed them. I don't think we should talk bad about people behind their backs.

In the present case, you didn't even know the bishop, so calling him an "idiot" was, well, not too bright. What made it even less palatable is that you were accusing a Church leader, acting in his leadership position, of being "an idiot". You have no moral right to do that. This is especially true because there is a good chance (IMO) that the bishop really was acting under inspiration of the Spirit, in which case you were guilty of calling a good, Godly action evil.

I don't see any good coming out of calling the bishop an "idiot". I think it's bad in every case. No good can come of it.

[Fether]

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Why can't people simply bring hard copy scriptures like they used to?  I specifically don't give my kids electronics until they are older because I don't want them to over use them.  Their brains are still forming.  Their personalities are still forming.  The marginal benefit to have them is overshadowed by the negative consequences.

6 years ago seminary teachers were outlawing the use of electronic scriptures at my school. Today the church doesn’t even hand out physical copies of manuals much anymore.

[NightSG]

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Why can't people simply bring hard copy scriptures like they used to?

Cross referencing through 4-5 books makes for a pretty heavy load.

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Their brains are still forming.  Their personalities are still forming. 

They're half Asian engineer.  What makes you think they'll have personalities?  Might as well just go ahead and buy them a stack of accounting books.

[JohnsonJones]

4 hours ago, NightSG said:

Cross referencing through 4-5 books makes for a pretty heavy load.

They're half Asian engineer.  What makes you think they'll have personalities?  Might as well just go ahead and buy them a stack of accounting books.

That last line...was in poor taste.

Edited May 7, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[zil]

9 hours ago, NightSG said:

Cross referencing through 4-5 books makes for a pretty heavy load.

That's why I stopped carrying paper to church.  Once I figured out how to make use of the linking, annotations, and tagging features (in the previous Android GUI) in my own way, I went "all in" on the electronic.  I haven't touched my paper scriptures since.  (I have to say, however, that I despise the new Android GUI because it is incapable of doing what the old version did which made teaching from it a snap.  Now I teach from paper (printouts, not manuals / scriptures).)

[Guest MormonGator]

10 hours ago, Fether said:

6 years ago seminary teachers were outlawing the use of electronic scriptures at my school. Today the church doesn’t even hand out physical copies of manuals much anymore.

Very true. 

People are frightened by change. At first change is revolutionary and scary, then when everyone adapts to it, they wonder why they were afraid of it in the first place. It happened with the car, the phone, the radio, the tv, the computer, and now it's happening again. People will eventually adapt and stop complaining, I think. 

[Crypto]

On 5/6/2018 at 8:25 PM, Fether said:

6 years ago seminary teachers were outlawing the use of electronic scriptures at my school. Today the church doesn’t even hand out physical copies of manuals much anymore.

This is one large reason why I think the youth should have devices. (Could be good mission prep for missions with devices. Which could be all of the US & Canada + other countries)

It would also give the youth a chance to become comfortable with using the electronic version so that when they are home they are more likely to use the scriptures in general. A positive influence on a device that can certainly be used for bad purposes. Church is [normally] a safe place to learn. Also the videos that go with the manuals are great!

I still love my paper copies of the scriptures as well.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Crypto

[askandanswer]

On 5/7/2018 at 11:09 PM, zil said:

That's why I stopped carrying paper to church.  Once I figured out how to make use of the linking, annotations, and tagging features (in the previous Android GUI) in my own way, I went "all in" on the electronic.  I haven't touched my paper scriptures since.  (I have to say, however, that I despise the new Android GUI because it is incapable of doing what the old version did which made teaching from it a snap.  Now I teach from paper (printouts, not manuals / scriptures).)

The notes I wrote (with a ballpen) in my scriptures 20 years ago are still legible and accessible at any time. Will you be able to say the same about the notes you write in your electronic scriptures?

[zil]

27 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

ballpen

27 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

The notes I wrote (with a ballpen) in my scriptures 20 years ago are still legible and accessible at any time. Will you be able to say the same about the notes you write in your electronic scriptures?

So long as the Church (you know, the Lord's Church) maintains their servers, yes.  Further, if I were paranoid about electronics and thought that paper would last longer, I'd get some archival printer paper, research which printer has the most archival ink or toner, and download my highlights, links, notes, tags, etc. off LDS.org into a PDF/RTF/DOC file and print them on said archival paper with archival ink/toner and store them in archival volumes in an archival vault on the off chance that they'll survive the Second Coming and children in the millennium will need someone to mock.

I, on the other hand, am reasonably certain I will die long before the Church's servers and that when some clerk records the fact that I died, my stuff will be wiped from said servers (or perhaps electronically archived in Granite Mountain; whatever) and that will be that.

[anatess2]

32 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

The notes I wrote (with a ballpen) in my scriptures 20 years ago are still legible and accessible at any time. Will you be able to say the same about the notes you write in your electronic scriptures?

Electronic anything requires upgrades unless you keep the device that runs the specific software.  This is especially true when storing data on other people's servers.  Therefore, once you use electronic notes, etc., you're going to need to trust the provider of the software not to abandon the application and then you'll need to keep abreast of any upgrades.  Also, make sure you can print hardcopies of your notations in the event that the application gets abandoned.  It's like when you have the hardcopy scriptures and it becomes to tattered so you buy another set which can also be a new edition of the scriptures, and you painstakingly transfer your notes over.  And then there's the scripture with your notations and you put it in a waterproof safe when the hurricane warning comes along - it's part of preparedness.

[Guest]

So, I just got the first evidence of this in place.  I'm at my stake center.  I'm waiting for the small business group to begin.

I can open Mormonhub.  I can read the posts but I cannot see any links to Youtube.

I have no idea how to setup a VPN.  So, I can't test that.  Anyone?

[Guest]

I just read some responses to my posts that I somehow missed before.  Here goes.

On 5/6/2018 at 4:59 PM, MormonGator said:

 Would you allow them to have a Kindle with only scripture on it? Curious. 

Not until they are 14.  And that is only because it would be a Kindle.  It uses different screen technology that doesn't affect the eyes the same way as LCD or similar screens do.

On 5/6/2018 at 10:25 PM, Fether said:

6 years ago seminary teachers were outlawing the use of electronic scriptures at my school. Today the church doesn’t even hand out physical copies of manuals much anymore.

Yup.

On 5/6/2018 at 10:37 PM, NightSG said:

Cross referencing through 4-5 books makes for a pretty heavy load.

They're half Asian engineer.  What makes you think they'll have personalities?  Might as well just go ahead and buy them a stack of accounting books.

I resent the fact that you'd lump engineers in with accountants.  I've told those jokes, right?

Joke #1: 

Ask an engineer, a mathematician, and an accountant what 2+2 is.

Engineer: 4
Mathematician: It depends on which theoretical realm you're working with.
Accountant: What do you want it to be?

Joke #2:

You put a mathematician and an engineer in a room on one end.  Place a couple pretty girls on the other end.  Tell them that they need to go half way across the room, then 1/4, then 1/8, etc. When they reach the girls they may kiss the girls (who have consented to this experiment).

The mathematician realizes that such a process will go on infinitely -- never allowing him to reach the girls.  So, he quits and leaves.

The engineer proceeds as instructed.  At some point he realized that he's close enough for all practical purposes and proceeds to kiss both girls -- since the other guy left.

... Hmmph... no personalities...