Is Israel on your bucket list?


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Most evangelical preachers (including me), and a good many church members, dream of visiting the Holy Land--Israel. Israeli tour companies even offer heavily discounted packages for pastors, with the belief that many will return with church groups. How much of a draw does national Israel hold for LDS? Is it on your bucket list?

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Maybe someday, if the political situation over there ever settles down.  But frankly, it seems like pretty much every holy site there has pretty deep archaeological dispute about whether or not it is REALLY the site of whatever Biblical event is attributed to it.  “Walk where Jesus walked” loses some of its cachet when we realize that what it really means is “stand within a few hundred yards of a place Jesus may or may not have visited.”

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18 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Most evangelical preachers (including me), and a good many church members, dream of visiting the Holy Land--Israel. Israeli tour companies even offer heavily discounted packages for pastors, with the belief that many will return with church groups. How much of a draw does national Israel hold for LDS? Is it on your bucket list?

It's a big draw for some LDS-- both my mom and two sisters went and did a study abroad semester there through BYU.  Sister liked it so much, she majored in Middle Eastern studies and has been to the Middle East many times.  My mom has just made 2(?) more trips there since.

As for me personally.... I got zero desire.  My faith isn't founded on dispute (or even undisputed) archeological claims, and seeing sites... it just doesn't do anything for me.  To be truly honest, I actually get bored.  For faith enrichment I'd much rather get some scripture or quiet prayer time.  

Of course, I respect that other folks feel differently-- my view is just my individuality.  

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

“Walk where Jesus walked” loses some of its cachet when we realize that what it really means is “stand within a few hundred yards of a place Jesus may or may not have visited.”

I get this, and do believe that some spiritual pilgrims become more enamored with the physical location than the power of what happened and who was involved. Still, the broad idea of walking the grounds where the Bible stories happened--whether exact or not--appeals. Some argue that two-weeks in Israel is equal to a year in Bible college. Having done the latter, I can see some validity the statement. To be able to visualize places as we read about them in scripture--I'd love to do it.

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I made a trip to Israel last year (about this time).  I thought it would be a semi-interesting experience.   I did not think the trip to be all that important (for anyone).  I found the experience much more than I ever dreamed.  Like @Jane_Doe – I thought the trip would be somewhat of a farce.  I was aware that Constantine sent his mother to Jerusalem to determine where important Christian events took place.  It was obvious that her trip was more political than rational.  Instead she picked the prominent Pagan shrines and declared them sacred Christian holy places.  

We should also remember that in 73 AD. the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and plowed the ground so that one stone did not remain on top of another – all that was left was below ground foundations and previously berried structures.  Anciently it was very common to build new over the foundations of the old.  What is there today are things built after the Roman destruction.  The oldest stuff is Pagan – followed by some some early Christian modifications – along with stuff from various conquerors down to our present day.

For me some of the highlights:

#1. Seeing Israel for myself and realizing that all the pictures and other references I thought I understood were so very different from the “truth” of being there.

#2. Immersing myself in the geology of the past.  For example, I was taught in my youth the expert art of using a sling (not the twirling around thing but the rapid set and release used in ancient combat).  I took the opportunity to enter the same valley in which David met against Goliath, picked some perfect stones from the same dry river bed where David picked his stones and slung 5 stones at a target about 75 yards away. 

I also visited near the place where Jesus was baptized.  It could not be the same spot because the Jordan river is smaller than the Jordan river in Utah and wanders (changing it wandering path yearly) to the Dead Sea.  But realizing that where Jesus was baptized was in the same area-place where Joshua (The Hebrew name of Jesus) brought the “children” of Israel and where he (Joshua) took them into the Jordan River to be cleansed (baptized) before entering the “promised land”.

So many times, I was touched by the spirit in ways and for things I did not at all expect.  Perhaps the most profound was Gethsemane (not the traditional place near the bottom of the mount of Olives but the place a Latter-day Prophet testified was near where Jesus prayed and took upon him the burden of our sins.

#3.  Talking to Jews in Jerusalem – participating in a bar mitzvah at the western wall.

#4.  Talking to Muslims that have lived in Palestine for many generations.

#5. Learning why it is impossible to purchase a cheeseburger in Israel.

#6. Eating traditional foods (both Islamic and Jewish)

#7. Spending a Sabbath (Saturday) in Israel.

#8. Meeting with the Latter-day Saints that live in Israel.

#9 Ridding on a modern boat of ancient design on Galilee (which is not a sea but a lake about the size of Bear lake in Utah and Idaho.)  I also ate a fish caught in Galilee and prepared in the ancient style (likely like the fish that fed the 5,000).

All in all – my trip was much more and many times over what I expected – Spiritually far more that I could have dreamed.  I would return again and plan to return – I am not so concerned about safety.   I believe I am much safer now than Jesus or the apostles ever were in Jerusalem.

 

The Traveler

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3 minutes ago, Traveler said:

#5. Learning why it is impossible to purchase a cheeseburger in Israel.

 

Deuteronomy 14:21:  Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

I believe this is the foundation for kosher food laws in Judaism. It's interpreted as not mixing meat and dairy, within two-hours of each other.

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I went two years ago on a Murdock guided tour. This was a Mormon moderated tour and our guide was very knowledgeable, although I did not share some of his points of view regarding what we saw. 

A lot of scripture was study and discussed, hymns sung, and we covered a lot of ground.

Locations such as garden of Gethsemane are fairly well known  and major cities that Christ was in are also known such as Nazareth, Capernaum, etc.  

There is some sort of church at every site that’s halfway historical and many times more than one. 

We went to church at the BYU chapel in East Jerusalem. They have a spectacular view of Jerusalem , floor to ceiling the audience faces during sacrament service.

This tour was well worth the $$$$$$ with nice hotels and other lodgings. Most meals included except for lunch.  There was also an optional side trip to Rome to see ancient Christian site for three days. Also well worth it. 

Israel is fascinating and should be on any Christian’s bucket list. It’s great. 

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5 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Deuteronomy 14:21:  Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

I believe this is the foundation for kosher food laws in Judaism. It's interpreted as not mixing meat and dairy, within two-hours of each other.

That's also why you will see many kitchens in the homes of Jewish people that have 2 refrigerators to separate the food.  

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5 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Deuteronomy 14:21:  Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

I believe this is the foundation for kosher food laws in Judaism. It's interpreted as not mixing meat and dairy, within two-hours of each other.

 

19 minutes ago, pam said:

That's also why you will see many kitchens in the homes of Jewish people that have 2 refrigerators to separate the food.  

In Israel they are not allowed in the same room or even rooms next to each other if a door can be opened between them - Also you never want to be on a Sabbath elevator on the Sabbath.  and one more for @prisonchaplain- work that cannot be done on the Sabbath is defined as anything that relates to the 6 days of creation in Genesis.

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, pam said:

That's also why you will see many kitchens in the homes of Jewish people that have 2 refrigerators to separate the food.  

Separate sets of dishes, too.  Ocean liners with kosher kitchens (like the Titanic and Queen Mary) had sets of dishes with the words “milk” or “meat” emblazoned on them in large letters.  (The Queen Mary also carried the world’s first seagoing synagogue—a clear anti-Nazi statement when the ship entered service in 1936.)

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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@prisonchaplain

I was once sitting in a car listening to a song by either Paul Caracalla or David Osmond that talks about if we could, would we give up all we had in our lives right now to travel back in time to walk with Christ (very good song).

he turned to me and said “this is absolutely ridiculous. God sent me here to this place and time to accomplish a specific work. I don’t need to walk where He walked, I need to walk as he walked.”

Though I believe that visiting the holy land would be absolutely amazing, I don’t believe it grants anyone some special testimony or spiritual power that can’t be gained in other way

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9 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

@pam won’t cover the air fare, but I have it on excellent authority that she’m buy everyone a root beer. ;) 

Sure.  I think I can afford that.  :)

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I've been to Israel twice, most recently earlier this year.  Both times were amazing.  I learned a lot.  I've seen all the major things to see.  The scripture stories seem a little different after being there.  I think I'm also able to remember scripture history better, whereas what stuck with me before was mostly the doctrine.  I gained a new appreciation for some of the heroes in scripture and a newfound witness that these were real events that actually took place. 

On my first visit while visiting the Garden Tomb, I decided to sit down and read each Gospel's account starting from when Christ was crucified to the end of the book.  I was on my own so I had time.  It was a spiritual experience.  However, I credit my study of the scriptures, and not the place, with the spiritual experience.  Likewise, while in Jaffa I read about Jonah and about Peter's experiences there, and this was also a spiritual experience.

Remembering my wonderful experiences with reading scripture in Israel, when I learned I would be going again I prepared for my second visit by reading a lot of scripture.  I studied where things took place in both the Old and New Testaments.  I also read online about all the top places in Israel and their significance.  I read all of the Gospels in their entirety in the month leading up to my trip.  As I read I searched where events took place, looking them up online if needed.  I also read the beginning of 1 Nephi in the Book of Mormon while thinking about Jerusalem and the surrounding area.  I made a list of the top 20 places I wanted to visit and I compiled scripture references for each place (e.g. Sermon on the mount, Jesus on Galilee, Ascension from Mount of Olives, Pool of Siloam, etc.) 

I planned my visit around these places, renting a car and mostly touring on my own so I could see more and go at my own pace.  I got to go everywhere I wanted.  I re-read the scriptures I compiled as I visited the places. (Sometimes I had to read before or after, e.g. the temple mount.)  Although the places and people were amazing, and something I will forever cherish, the greatest thing I experienced was through studying the scriptures.

Go if you have the means.  But, a visit to Israel is not necessary for knowing Jesus or for having spiritual experiences.

Furthermore, if you want to go somewhere for a spiritual experience the best place is in the temple.  One of the most iconic places in Israel is the temple mount and the Western Wall.  It's an interesting experience to be there when the Sabbath starts.  It's been called the Wailing Wall, since Jews lament not having a temple.  They visit the wall and pray as they await and hope.  But, we don't have to wait for the coming of the Savior to visit the most holy and spiritual place, the House of the Lord.  God has restored his priesthood authority and temples are available today.  A visit to the temple for sacred ordinances and communion with God is worth any price.

 

Edited by Rhoades
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When I was at my church's theological seminary it was located on the 5th/6th floors of the Gospel Publishing House plant, and was connected to our headquarters. The headquarters/Gospel Publishing House/seminary grounds were very functional, and, I found out later, modeled after the circa 1970s SAFECO building. I remember feeling the presence of the Spirit quite strongly, despite the fact that physically all it amounted to was a large-ish office complex.

Israel is just a physical place, but it's the site where God chose to do so much. Spiritual pilgrimage is mostly a very positive endeavor, whether attending conferences in person or visiting the Holy Land. Nevertheless, it's true that going there does not elevate one's standing with God.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 3:31 PM, prisonchaplain said:

I get this, and do believe that some spiritual pilgrims become more enamored with the physical location than the power of what happened and who was involved. Still, the broad idea of walking the grounds where the Bible stories happened--whether exact or not--appeals. Some argue that two-weeks in Israel is equal to a year in Bible college. Having done the latter, I can see some validity the statement. To be able to visualize places as we read about them in scripture--I'd love to do it.

I have never been to Bible College, but I would agree that the ability to see and feel and experience a place gives so much more knowledge to a person than simply talking about it. 

I suppose for example, if you have heard about a pack of wolves and you have seen pictures of them, you may think that there is nothing to be gained by seeing them.  However, upon seeing them you suddenly understand their size and ability and the fearsomeness of them as a pack.  It gives you an understanding that you may not have otherwise obtained. 

A similar idea could be with seeing a rocket launch.  We can all see a rocket launch today on YouTube, but how much more real does it become to some of us if we see it in person.

I think the same could specially apply to a minister who is learning in Bible College in comparison to one who is also in Bible College but also has been to the Holy Land.  It creates a better understanding for themselves of that location and what occurred there.

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I plan on getting there in the next few years when I get a bit more free time. I get essentially free airfare, just need the time. 

For those of you who went, did any of you rent a car? Or did you just go with a tour group? 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/16/2018 at 7:56 AM, Lost Boy said:

I plan on getting there in the next few years when I get a bit more free time. I get essentially free airfare, just need the time. 

For those of you who went, did any of you rent a car? Or did you just go with a tour group? 

On my second trip there I rented a car.  You don't need (or want) one while visiting things in Jerusalem; just use taxis.  I used the rental car for day trips to remote sites (e.g. Nazareth, Mt. Tabor, Galilee and surrounding sites, both Jordan River sites, the Dead Sea, Masada, Qumran caves, etc.).  Renting a car allowed me to do and see a lot more in less days, and for less money.  I felt confident doing things on my own and renting a car since I'd been there before.

For someone that's never been there before and doesn't want the pricey cost of a fully arranged multi-day tour, I'd suggest arranging your own flight to Israel, take a sherut (a shared taxi minivan/small bus that's cheap) to Jerusalem, and schedule a few day trips with Israeli tour companies for the first part of your trip.  They'll pick you up at your hotel and take you back at the end.  You could take day trips to cover Bethlehem (cant' drive rental car there anyway), Dead Sea, Nazareth, Galilee, Jerusalem, etc.  Then, leave a few extra days to see more of Jerusalem on your own that your guided day tour didn't cover.  You can take a sherut back to the airport (you call ahead to arrange it and they pick you up at hotel).

Things a guided Jerusalem day tour might not cover yet you should see include the Garden Tomb, Gethsemane, going up on the temple mount, City of David and Hezekiah's tunnel, Pool of Bethesda, and western wall excavations site.  (Schedule the City of David tour through their website beforehand, no need for a third party tour group. This was a favorite.  At the end of the tunnel you end up at the Pool of Siloam where Jesus sent the man born blind in John 9.  There are other tours you can schedule, like western wall tunnels, but I liked City of David best.)

If you're more adventurous, you could take some guided day tours on the front end of your trip, and then see Jerusalem some more on your own, and then rent a car for the last few days to see remote things you didn't use a tour group for.

Edited by Rhoades
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