Psychopaths are an enemy to God?

[mikbone]

I found a good psychology article.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886918302514

What is the opposite of psychopathy? A statistical and graphical exploration of the psychopathy continuum

“The opposite of psychopathy was defined by a tendency to experience guilt following private transgressions, by a tendency to experience shame following publicly exposed transgressions, by honesty, humility, cooperativeness, agreeableness, consideration, restraint, and conscientiousness. Importantly, the tendencies to experience guilt or shame following transgressions displayed mild, positive associations with well-being. The opposite of psychopathy did not involve timidity or gregariousness, and it did not involve internalizing distress. “Compassionate morality” is suggested as a possible label.”

 

[NeuroTypical]

What about people who just spend effort to look like they experience post-transgression guilt and shame, and try hard to look honest/cooperative/agreeable/considerate/restrained, because it gets them more likes?

 

Asking for a friend.

[Vort]

12 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Asking for a friend.

Always improves the entertainment value of any post.

[Guest MormonGator]

Off topic-

The most overused word in the English language is "Psychopath". It used to apply to serial killers, mass murderers, tyrannical dictators. Now, it basically means "Person I don't like." 

:: sigh :: 

[mikbone]

19 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Off topic-

The most overused word in the English language is "Psychopath". It used to apply to serial killers, mass murderers, tyrannical dictators. Now, it basically means "Person I don't like." 

:: sigh :: 

Psychopathy - traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits.

I have been thinking about the Sacrament and the “Lamb of God” and made the realization of how important it is that have certain qualities that allow us to worship the Lord.

1) Understanding  -  We must be able to understand history / scripture / or at least a basic comprehension of the identity of Christ

2) Imagination - In order to appreciate the Sacrament we should be able to understand symbolic emblems and think about Christ’s atonement, the why and the how He did it.

3) Empathy - We should attempt to place ourselves in his position and feel a connection to Him.  A broken heart & a contrite spirit.

 

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/carl-b-cook/putting-natural-man-becoming-saints/

[The Folk Prophet]

How dare anyone promote shame!

[The Folk Prophet]

33 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

The most overused word in the English language is "Psychopath". 

I'd guess "racist".

[NeuroTypical]

I have some experience interacting/knowing/being related to folks with a wide variety of mental issues.  I can't say I've ever known someone on the psychopathy scale.  It seems to indicate a lack of the light of Christ, which helps us know good from evil, and scripture tells us is given to "every man".  

No matter how messed up or differently-brained most folks are, somewhere in there is a sense of empathy, an ability to understand suffering.  Humans can do all sorts of horrible things and then go to great lengths to deny responsibility, justify their own actions, convince themselves there's nothing to be ashamed about.   But those huge efforts indicate they know the truth inside themselves.

[Guest MormonGator]

11 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Psychopathy - traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits.

I have been thinking about the Sacrament and the “Lamb of God” and made the realization of how important it is that have certain qualities that allow us to worship the Lord.

1) Understanding  -  We must be able to understand history / scripture / or at least a basic comprehension of the identity of Christ

2) Imagination - In order to appreciate the Sacrament we should be able to understand symbolic emblems and think about Christ’s atonement, the why and the how He did it.

3) Empathy - We should attempt to place ourselves in his position and feel a connection to Him.  A broken heart & a contrite spirit.

 

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/carl-b-cook/putting-natural-man-becoming-saints/

Yes, all true. 

However, I've seen so many people call their ex boyfriend/husband a psychopath just because the marriage failed. 
I've seen so many people call others they don't like a psychopath just because they, um, don't like them. 

"Psychopath" is like the word "racist" it's basically so overused it has no meaning. 

[NeuroTypical]

Yep.  Additionally, I've never actually met someone suffering from homophobia.  The mere existence of gays being so stressful that someone can't get out of bed, or leave the house?  Experiencing heart palpitations and inability to sleep after reading an article about a gay pride parade?  Can't hold down a job, or stay in a marriage, because of oppressive fear that there is a gay somewhere?    Never seen anyone who comes close.    Closest I've ever been to experiencing that, is my own 'ick' factor.  Probably not the most Christlike thing about me, but it's hardly a mental illness.

Edited July 18, 2019 by NeuroTypical

[Guest MormonGator]

I once asked a girl on my Facebook, "If both of your ex husbands were psychopaths, what does that say about you for marrying both of them?" Amazingly, she de-friended me right after that. 
 

[mordorbund]

15 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

"Psychopath" is like the word "racist" it's basically so overused it has no meaning. 

Ugh! Those Nazis are the worst!

[mikbone]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.propublica.org/article/dr-death-christopher-duntsch-a-surgeon-so-bad-it-was-criminal/amp

This guy!

[NeuroTypical]

I have heard that psychopaths who are interested in, well, being good instead of evil, can find good employment as a surgeon or vet or mortician or guy who does autopsies.  Cutting into people is easier when you don't have a bunch of empathy in the way.

[Fifthziff]

I like how Robert Millet describes the effects of the fall.  I think if one understands the real effects of the fall, including what it does to the human brain, then we can appreciate statements like that, how "pathology" of any kind can be considered an enemy to God.  Consider the idea that Christ spent a lot of time healing pathology.  And we know the atonement is not just for sin but for all the suffering (physical pathology as well) resultant from the Fall. 

Robert Millet; "To say that we are not condemned by the fall of Adam is not to say that we are unaffected by it. Jehovah explained to Adam, “Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, and they taste the bitter, that they may know to prize the good” (Moses 6:55). We do not believe, with Calvin, in the moral depravity of humanity. We do not believe, with Luther, that human beings, because of intrinsic carnality and depravity, do not even have the power to choose good over evil. And we do not believe that children are born in sin, that they inherit the so-called sin of Adam, either by sexual union or by birth. Rather, children are conceived in sin, meaning first, that they are conceived into a world of sin, and second, that conception is the vehicle by which the effects of the Fall (not the original guilt, which God has forgiven) are transmitted to Adam and Eve’s posterity. To be sure, there is no sin in sexual union within the bonds of marriage, nor is conception itself sinful. Rather, through conception the flesh originates; through the process of becoming mortal one inherits the effects of the fall of Adam-both physical and spiritual."

[CV75]

On 7/18/2019 at 12:57 PM, mikbone said:

I found a good psychology article.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886918302514

What is the opposite of psychopathy? A statistical and graphical exploration of the psychopathy continuum

“The opposite of psychopathy was defined by a tendency to experience guilt following private transgressions, by a tendency to experience shame following publicly exposed transgressions, by honesty, humility, cooperativeness, agreeableness, consideration, restraint, and conscientiousness. Importantly, the tendencies to experience guilt or shame following transgressions displayed mild, positive associations with well-being. The opposite of psychopathy did not involve timidity or gregariousness, and it did not involve internalizing distress. “Compassionate morality” is suggested as a possible label.”

A psychopath is an enemy to God only when he has the capacity to choose the right and repent, and then doesn't.

[mikbone]

48 minutes ago, CV75 said:

A psychopath is an enemy to God only when he has the capacity to choose the right and repent, and then doesn't.

Are you suggesting that because psychopaths can neither choose the right nor repent that they are outside the bounds of justice - both legal and divine?

[estradling75]

12 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Are you suggesting that because psychopaths can neither choose the right nor repent that they are outside the bounds of justice - both legal and divine?

That would not be what such a statement means.  The Atonement of Christ satisfied Justice completely and totally.  Those unaccountable are covered.  Those accountable have to follow the commands of Christ (up to whatever level of accountability they have to follow Christ's commands)

[Traveler]

Let us be clear - the default of all human behavior and thinking is what constitutes an enemy of G-d.  I would include the propensity to exclude one's self from whatever we would condemn in others.  In short to argue that whatever constitutes evil and worthy of a residence in hell does not (for whatever reason) apply to them or allows them an exemption.  In order to transition from being an enemy to a friend of G-d is best described as a MIGHTY change. 

Sometimes I am inclined to think that the mighty change is more about seeing the worth and value in others than in one's self and thus being willing to sacrifice one's self for the benefit of others.  And yet I have the most difficulty myself to condescend and give up what I see as my rightful eternal reward in hope that some poor soul might not suffer for their spiritual ills.  Sometimes, I find myself experiencing some joy when others suffer for sins they refuse to repent of - especially for those sins and transgressions that I believe affect me adversely.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

On 7/18/2019 at 11:57 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

How dare anyone promote shame!

I am so with you concerning this - it is not good to shame and no one should ever do it for any reason - but the greatest shame of all belong to those that would shame such good undeserving of it people like you and me.

 

The Traveler

[CV75]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

Are you suggesting that because psychopaths can neither choose the right nor repent that they are outside the bounds of justice - both legal and divine?

I am not saying that anyone, whatever his psychological assessment or how he got that way, is outside the bounds of justice (I can say that with more confidence in divine justice than legal justice)! It is by justice that unaccountable and innocent people experience death along with the guilty and accountable.

While psychopathy is characterized by certain traits (which I would add are weighed on a gradient of tendencies), an inability to choose the right or repent is not necessarily due to psychopathy, and some psychopaths retain a quantum of that ability. "For there are some [psychopaths], which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some [psychopaths], which were made ...of men: and there be [psychopaths], which have made themselves [psychopaths]" by their own informed yet awful choices.

Edited July 31, 2019 by CV75

[Serviteur du seigneur]

Weird classifying antisocial people as psychopaths, that's completely not true, i am a person without friends and all that, but that doesn't make me a psychopath in any way.

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Weird classifying antisocial people as psychopaths, that's completely not true, i am a person without friends and all that, but that doesn't make me a psychopath in any way.

No one is.  But as I understand it, the clinical term for psychopathy/sociopathy as given in the DSM-V is “antisocial personality disorder”.  That goes far beyond being an introvert or a loner or what we laymen often call “antisocial”—it entails, as I understand it, a mindset where you see people as things to be used, rather than individuals with their own humanity and dignity.  People who are merely antisocial want to be left alone by others.  People with ASPD spend time pondering how others can be used for their own purposes; are happy to engage in human interaction if they’re getting something out of it; and are often highly charismatic.

I’ve worked with a couple people who were diagnosed with it.  The experience was . . . not fun.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[mikbone]

Almost finished this book.  Highly entertaining and informative.

 

Autobiography of a neuroscientist who studied brain scans of psychopath murders, and found a pattern..

In another study he also reviewed brain scans for Alzheimer's patients.  And since his family has a history of Alzheimer’s dz he had many of his family members enrolled in the study.

Anyway... He recognized that one of his family members had a brain scan that was consistent with the psychopaths.  He couldn’t resist and unblinded the test result and found out that the abnormal brain scan was his!!!

Edited August 3, 2019 by mikbone

[mikbone]

2 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Weird classifying antisocial people as psychopaths, that's completely not true, i am a person without friends and all that, but that doesn't make me a psychopath in any way.

Psychopathy - traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits.

 

Antisocial dose not make you a psychopath....  Psychopaths have all of the above traits.  

 

Impaired empathy is the trait that I relate to the inability to worship the Lord.  Thus an enemy to God...

 

If you met me at chruch, you might think that I am: unapproachable, surly, unneighbourly, unwelcoming, unsympathetic, aloof, cold, distant, standoffish, withdrawn, reserved, unforthcoming, uncommunicative, impersonal, and indifferent

 

Some would say that I am Anti-social...  

My family loves me though...  And so does God...

 

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by mikbone