Church resources on transgender folks

[NeuroTypical]

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender/?lang=eng

I’m quite impressed with this attempt to help folks wrap their minds around the issue.  Some of this is pretty powerful.  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

This is amazing!  Thanks so much for sharing, I hadn't seen it before. 

[Fether]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

folks

Isn’t folk already plural?

[Fether]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender/?lang=eng

I’m quite impressed with this attempt to help folks wrap their minds around the issue.  Some of this is pretty powerful.  

I had a conversation with the 2nd counselor of our ward the other day about my experience with my transgender sister. He pointed out that when you don’t know anyone that is trans and aren’t around it, you think they are a bunch of crazies.

The truth is, they are here and it is a VERY touchy topic for them. Transgender folk have a very high rate of suicide, so calling them crazy or refusing to acknowledge that what they believe has value is nothing but destructive. 

What they believe is not cohesive with what God wants, but they deserve to be treated respectfully just like how I, a fellow sinner, is treated.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

9 minutes ago, Fether said:

The truth is, they are here and it is a VERY touchy topic for them. Transgender folk have a very high rate of suicide, so calling them crazy or refusing to acknowledge that what they believe has value is nothing but destructive. 

That's why I'm so grateful for the loving approach our Leaders are taking to these bothers and sisters in this page NeuroTypical shared, and through the policies changed in the new handbook.  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

23 minutes ago, Fether said:

Isn’t folk already plural?

You piqued my curiosity so I looked.  The dictionary says "folk" describes a group of people and "folks" refers to relatives, particularly one's parents. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by LiterateParakeet

[Vort]

2 hours ago, Fether said:

Isn’t folk already plural?

"Folk" is a collective singular, while "folks" is a regular plural. "Folk" (as a noun) refers to a group, while "folks" refers to a collection of individuals. In these functions, it's similar to the word "people", which can be a collective singular referring to a group (e.g. "This people is a wicked people") or a plural (e.g. "The people are waiting for your response").

[Grunt]

2 hours ago, Fether said:

 

 refusing to acknowledge that what they believe has value is nothing but destructive. 

 

This is over the line I draw.  Not everything has value, nor will I pretend it does.

[carlimac]

3 hours ago, Fether said:

Explain a little more about “ value”. What values does their belief have?

Oops. Feather didn’t say that. I did. Don’t know how that happened or how to fix it. But I was trying to respond to the same quote Grunt posted.

Edited February 23, 2020 by carlimac

[Fether]

23 minutes ago, Grunt said:

This is over the line I draw.  Not everything has value, nor will I pretend it does.

In writing it I knew it would be misconstrued.

I don’t mean to say their ideology is valuable. Nor that it is respectable. Just that we shouldn’t disrespect them, demean them, call them crazy, etc. to them their belief is valuable just as our beliefs are valuable to us. If we don’t show respect for what others find valuable, we aren’t fostering a healthy society, and its frankly uncristlike.

And just so I don’t get misquoted or misinterpreted. Trans beliefs are sinful and should not be praised or encouraged. We can be respectful of ones’ beliefs and the pronouns they wish to be called by, but we don’t need to agree with it or champion it.

[Vort]

3 minutes ago, Fether said:

Just that we shouldn’t disrespect them, demean them, call them crazy, etc.

Who should we disrespect, demean, and call crazy?

[Fether]

3 minutes ago, Vort said:

Who should we disrespect, demean, and call crazy?

Ummm... nobody?

[Vort]

22 minutes ago, Fether said:

Ummm... nobody?

Agreed. So then, what does their being suicidal have to do with how we treat them?

[Fether]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

Agreed. So then, what does their being suicidal have to do with how we treat them?

 Nothing, I was just pointing out that they are more sensitive to the disrespect they receive than others.

But at the end of the day, regardless of the level of self confidence one has. We ought to respect the beliefs other’s hold sacred and important.

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, Fether said:

 Nothing, I was just pointing out that they are more sensitive to the disrespect they receive than others.

But at the end of the day, regardless of the level of self confidence one has. We ought to respect the beliefs other’s hold sacred and important.

I think we all agree with that. But by the same token, we should stand for the truth, even when it's not comfortable or politically correct.

I understand that this issue is personal for you. I respect that and don't want to be unkind. But if we refuse to speak inconvenient truths, we risk losing those truths.

[Fether]

10 minutes ago, Vort said:

I think we all agree with that. But by the same token, we should stand for the truth, even when it's not comfortable or politically correct.

I understand that this issue is personal for you. I respect that and don't want to be unkind. But if we refuse to speak inconvenient truths, we risk losing those truths.

 

Having a topic close to my heart doesn’t change the truth behind. If I’m wrong then let me know. But I suspect I’m not in this instance, but perhaps my experience has lead me a step further than most.

My brother and sister know very well that I and my parents don’t believe the same way about the LGBTQ movement. Yet we all get along perfectly. We do not need to declare the truth and call out sin in every occasion.

We declare the sin of worshiping false idols in Sunday school, teaching our children, bearing testimony, or in discourses that arise in conversation. But during social settings or interfaith gatherings, we respect the beliefs of a Buddhist or catholic and focus on the similarities and the positive relations. And if the discussion arises, then let’s absolutely declare our belief and what we believe to be true.

It’s imperative that the world knows where God stands on topics like LGBTQ, that it’s a sin. But let’s not allow that to get in the way of treating everyone with respect.

[Fether]

I finally read through the link above, it’s focused more toward those that want to remain active in the church and stay obedient, not toward those who have already transferred socially or physically.

[carlimac]

Nothing is said about children with gender dysphoria. They definitely need to be helped/listened to/loved but possibly distracted till it passes. Which it does most of the time. 

[Fether]

5 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Nothing is said about children with gender dysphoria. They definitely need to be helped/listened to/loved but possibly distracted till it passes. Which it does most of the time. 

It’s true, if you don’t explain the two, everyone with gender dysphoria may think they are transgender 

[NeuroTypical]

Some of my thoughts:

- For every single person who has a genuine gender identity problem, there are countless straight kids who have been taught by school and culture to experiment with spectrums and feelings and whatnot.  Peer pressure says suffering minorities are what's hot these days, and grabbing on to your own letter of the LGBTQABC alphabet is a way to be cool.  Take someone who experiments, and give them half a dozen sexual encounters of varying degrees of sin and trauma, and you can screw up a "normal" person into thinking they are something they're not. 

- The "genuine" transgender folks are few in number, and can have a wide range of issues at play.  Genetic, chromosomal, hormonal, biological/structural, secondary characteristics, in endless combinations and varying severities.  Not to mention the mental issues.  Trying to figure out what "their" ideologies or beliefs are, isn't helpful, because "they" are anything but a cohesive distinguishable group that share characteristics.  The church link conveys that we understand this, with it's language about bishops counseling with area presidencies to address individual unique circumstances.

- I'm humbled and sorrowed that there is advice on how to deal with being treated badly by folks who should know better, sprinkled through the section on understanding yourself.  

Quote

Not everyone around you will be perfect in expressing love, compassion, or sensitivity. In the world today, it is easy to find offense and to cause offense. Significant challenges can make us vulnerable to unintended offenses due to misplaced words or misguided comments. As members of the Church, we are all learning and growing.
...
Be patient with the people around you, and remember you are all learning together. If those you love have difficulty understanding or being supportive, they may need your help. Treat your parents and leaders with the same kindness and respect you hope they will show to you.

I'm a big fan of cleaning up your own back yard first, and since I'm not transgender, I know where I should focus my time.  Mote and beam, and all that.

 

 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

4 hours ago, carlimac said:

Oops. Feather didn’t say that. I did. Don’t know how that happened or how to fix it. But I was trying to respond to the same quote Grunt posted.

I've had the site do some strange things lately too.  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

4 hours ago, Fether said:

I finally read through the link above, it’s focused more toward those that want to remain active in the church and stay obedient, not toward those who have already transferred socially or physically.

But it also talks a little about those who transition physically or socially. Basically, it discourages that, but says if they choose to transition their preferred name and pronoun will be put on their membership records and used. 

[Fether]

49 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

But it also talks a little about those who transition physically or socially. Basically, it discourages that, but says if they choose to transition their preferred name and pronoun will be put on their membership records and used. 

It will be put in a “preferred name” section but their “dead name” will still be present

[anatess2]

Deleted a bad joke.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by anatess2

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 2/23/2020 at 7:57 AM, Fether said:

Isn’t folk already plural?

yes it is. or has the Nazis called them, Volksgemeinschaft. Sorry, meant to say, Nationalsozialismus.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Emmanuel Goldstein