Baptism of the Holy Ghost?

[askandanswer]

Will the Holy Ghost need to be baptised at some point? I realise that very little is known about the Holy Ghost or its future, and that the value of any answer to this question might be initially somewhat limited, but its just something that occurred to me yesterday and i wonder if any forum members have any insights on this question. If the Holy Ghost does need to be baptised, then it could be reasonably concluded that at some point it will need a physical body, and if it doesn't need to be baptised, then the we could reasonably conclude that Jesus Christ was subject to a requirement that the Holy Ghost is not. 

[laronius]

Little children who died before the age of accountability don't need to be baptized. So it's possible that the Holy Ghost also doesn't need to be baptized unless there is some scenario where it is requisite for him also to "fulfill all righteousness" like it was with Jesus. But I do believe that Joseph Smith did say that at some point he would be an exalted being with a body. But that in and of itself does not automatically necessitate baptism. There is much we do not know in this regard.

[Anddenex]

Here are the principles that have already been alluded to by @laronius:

1) Is the Holy Ghost a son of God?

2) Will the Holy Ghost obtain a body?

3) Will the Holy Ghost live beyond the age of accountability?

If we can answer yes to the questions above, then as Christ was baptized the Holy Ghost will need to be baptized and follow the Savior into the waters of baptism.

[prisonchaplain]

I looked as hard as I could in the OP, based on the headline, for the phrase, "with the initial physical evidence of speaking in tongues," and then realized, alas, that I was sorely mistaken.

[Traveler]

On 9/19/2020 at 10:26 PM, askandanswer said:

Will the Holy Ghost need to be baptised at some point? I realise that very little is known about the Holy Ghost or its future, and that the value of any answer to this question might be initially somewhat limited, but its just something that occurred to me yesterday and i wonder if any forum members have any insights on this question. If the Holy Ghost does need to be baptised, then it could be reasonably concluded that at some point it will need a physical body, and if it doesn't need to be baptised, then the we could reasonably conclude that Jesus Christ was subject to a requirement that the Holy Ghost is not. 

The Holy Ghost is the least known of the G-d Head.  Although there are many revelations about receiving the Holy Ghost and His importance in the Plan of Salvation - there is disappointingly (for me) very little known about the person.  Even in traditional Trinitarian Christians (like @prisonchaplain) I find no logic that such a being has any actual critical or necessary religious importance or contribution beyond various speculations.

I have my own speculations - mostly based in logic, science and mathematics (dealing with our dimensional space-time with the possible speculations concerning an additional dimension.)   In short at least 95% of what we think we understand of our universe is unexplainable and beyond our current science (including quantum physics - that no one really understands well enough to make me confident).

Some of my speculations:

1. I mostly believe that the Holy Ghost is a single unique personage but I can accept the possibility that this divine role may be accomplished by several different persons at different times or eras of the divine plan of salvation.  But I do not believe Jesus has ever been a Holy Ghost individual.

2. When Christ returns to rule in power and glory - that the Holy Ghost will no longer be necessary and that he or they will complete the divine purpose of creation - meaning that they will receive a body, be baptized and eventually be resurrected to Glory.  

3. In conflict with #2 - I speculate that the Holy Ghost will be necessary as we are brought to stand before G-d at what is called the final judgment.  But I cannot find any scriptural references.  I am also conflicted that the Holy Ghost could receive a mortal body and yet be another individual capable of mortality without sin or that being a G-d he would sin.

4. There is an order of resurrection - not only is the first resurrection the greatest in glory - the first resurrection will be completed before resurrections of lessor glories begin.  I believe this is necessary and part of the order of the Priesthood.

5. There seems to be a strong connection between the Holy Ghost and fire.  I am not sure if this is symbolic or actual.  I tend to speculate that baptism by fire is not so much symbolic but literal and necessary to be clean before anyone can be in G-d's presents.  I personally believe my speculations are better than most in this regard - but I am quite sure my speculations are far far from reality.  It seems this is a matter of faith based in hardly any knowledge or understanding.

I am not willing to die on any hill of my speculations and will be glad to someday move beyond speculations to truth.  I am very willing to entertain other speculations but with the caveat that we are dealing with speculations - at least for now.

 

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

The Holy Ghost is the least known of the G-d Head.  Although there are many revelations about receiving the Holy Ghost and His importance in the Plan of Salvation - there is disappointingly (for me) very little known about the person.  Even in traditional Trinitarian Christians (like @prisonchaplain) I find no logic that such a being has any actual critical or necessary religious importance or contribution beyond various speculations.

In Joseph Smith's era the above was true--very much so. However, your church's first prophet brought something to light--praying to receive a Holy Spirit witness--a burning in the bosom. LDS speak of being impressed by the Spirit. Indeed, the Bible says the Holy Spirit will convict us. We think of conviction as relating to sin, but He also gives us conviction--a strong sense of what is true. Of course, for Pentecostals/Charismatics the Holy Spirit brings spiritual power. On an intuitive level, many view the Heavenly Father as that traditional, strong, somewhat distant authority figure, who always seemed right. The Son, Jesus, is our brother, our example, even, on some level, our friend. The Holy Spirit though is an internal, intimate sense of God's presence. He is a Comforter, a guide, and most certainly, an assurance.

[Traveler]

2 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

In Joseph Smith's era the above was true--very much so. However, your church's first prophet brought something to light--praying to receive a Holy Spirit witness--a burning in the bosom. LDS speak of being impressed by the Spirit. Indeed, the Bible says the Holy Spirit will convict us. We think of conviction as relating to sin, but He also gives us conviction--a strong sense of what is true. Of course, for Pentecostals/Charismatics the Holy Spirit brings spiritual power. On an intuitive level, many view the Heavenly Father as that traditional, strong, somewhat distant authority figure, who always seemed right. The Son, Jesus, is our brother, our example, even, on some level, our friend. The Holy Spirit though is an internal, intimate sense of God's presence. He is a Comforter, a guide, and most certainly, an assurance.

If I did not know better I would think this is from a fellow Latter-day Saint.  In science there are two kinds of particles - fermions and bosons.  Fermions are what most of us think of as matter.  Bosons are quite different - for example two bosons can occupy the same space-time.  Photons (particles of light) are bosons.  One speculation is that spirit matter is similar to or are bosons.  This would explain how a spirit can occupy a physical body and otherwise be undetected.   This would also explain how the Holy Ghost can enter into our body and communicate directly with our spirit.

It is LDS doctrine that our pre-existence spirit is the same "stuff" as the Holy Ghost and the pre-born entity of Mary - Jesus Christ.  It is also the same stuff of which Lucifer was and Satan remains to be.   It is also my speculation that Dark Matter and Dark Energy may be Boson type spirit matter.  This would mean that our universe is dominated by spirit stuff and give credence to a literal concept that spirit stuff gives life to the universe.  Of course this is all my speculation - but there has been little divine revelation on such things since science has advanced our physical understanding of the universe.  I do wish and speculate that if our eyes were "opened" that we would understand both science and religious doctrine much better.

Perhaps our spirits are far more powerful than we realize - even in our physical universe.  One thing - I believe the scripture (including our Latter-day prophets) tries to inform us is that only by faith in Christ and through the Holy Ghost can we know truth - of anything. 

 

Thanks for your input

 

The Traveler

[bytebear]

I believe the Holy Ghost has already lived a mortal life and was baptized. 

[mikbone]

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/discourse-27-august-1843-as-reported-by-franklin-d-richards/3

[laronius]

8 hours ago, mikbone said:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/discourse-27-august-1843-as-reported-by-franklin-d-richards/3

That's a really interesting tidbit. So little has been revealed about the Holy Ghost as an individual. Good find.

[Carborendum]

On 10/28/2020 at 11:28 PM, mikbone said:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/discourse-27-august-1843-as-reported-by-franklin-d-richards/3

Based on this and a few other quotes, it makes me wonder if Joseph, himself, was the one referred to.

[dprh]

My personal belief is that the Holy Ghost is an office that has been held by multiple beings, Michael being the first.  When he received his body, it was filled by another pre-mortal spirit, maybe Enoch. So yes, I think each person who has filled that role will be born physically and receive all the ordinances they need.

[bytebear]

On 11/2/2020 at 8:44 AM, dprh said:

My personal belief is that the Holy Ghost is an office that has been held by multiple beings, Michael being the first.  When he received his body, it was filled by another pre-mortal spirit, maybe Enoch. So yes, I think each person who has filled that role will be born physically and receive all the ordinances they need.

I have the same view, although I wonder if Michael returned to his role after his mortality.  But interesting if each patrioch is prepared in that role before mortality, which makes the JoD statement make sense that Joseph Smith was the most recent office holder we know of.