New Candidates?

[LDSGator]

7 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

By the way, it doesn't take a smart person to understand that Trump supporters are nanoseconds away from making "weird" a reclaimed slur.  There's money to be made, but right now all I'm seeing is this:

It’s nice to see quirky, weird, anti establishment republicans. This ain’t the pearl clutching, Chamber of Commerce party anymore.   

[Phoenix_person]

3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Aaaaaand, a rather nasty notion gets floated, hiding under the thin veil of multilayered sarcasm.   Vance should not be "left alone with your 14 year old niece"?   Nasty, vile accusation.   The kind that should be defended with evidence, or abandoned and apologized for.  I doubt the dozen rats who made the post even gave the horribleness of the accusation a seconds thought.

I agree, it's a vile and unacceptable insinuation. Welcome to the every day life of a transgender person. The LGBT community, especially T, has been the target of unfounded, heinous accusations for years. No, it doesn't make it right when liberals do it. But let's be clear that this isn't coming from a vacuum. And while JD Vance's "weirdness" has been fabricated for memes, Trump's has not. There are real, documented accusations of predatory behavior. Heck, there's a recording of him bragging about assaulting women. Here in Minnesota, a major GOP donor is currently serving a 21 year prison sentence for trafficking minors. The former chairwoman of the MN GOP had to resign over it because she was his biggest benefactor.

Many people of faith buy into transphobic rhetoric and accusations while some of their own faith communities are infested with actual predators. Southern Baptists and Catholics both have very public predator problems. I know four LDS men with records of abuse and sexual assault. One of them was engaged to my sister when she found a hidden camera placed by him in her BYU-I dorm bathroom. Another is a former high school teacher who was married to an LDS high school friend of mine. I won't elaborate, but he's probably going to be in prison for the rest of his life.

A lot of children have been harmed by wolves in sheep's clothing and have seen their abusers suffer no consequences, or simply "go away". Sometimes the victims are manipulated into believing that they're at fault for the horrible thing that happened to them. Then they grow up and learn how many others have had similar experiences, and they start thinking that maybe the churches are filled with wolves. They even see known wolves propped up and celebrated by their former faith communities. It's not a fair characterization, but I think a lot of Christians underestimate how much harm some of their representatives have inflicted on the innocent.

Edited August 8, 2024 by Phoenix_person

[LDSGator]

7 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

Trump's has not. There are real, documented accusations of predatory behavior. Heck, there's a recording of him bragging about assaulting women. 

On this, you are 100%, absolutely, dead on correct.  

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Phoenix_person said:

And while JD Vance's "weirdness" has been fabricated for memes, Trump's has not. There are real, documented accusations of predatory behavior.

Please note: "Real, documented accusations" now count as legitimately making the target of these accusations "weird".

[Phoenix_person]

13 minutes ago, Vort said:

Please note: "Real, documented accusations" now count as legitimately making the target of these accusations "weird".

Fine, we'll go back to calling the GOP presidential candidate a sexual predator, serial liar, and traitor to the United States Constitution. I'm cool with that if calling him "weird" is too offensive.

[NeuroTypical]

I can respect accusations leveled against Trump’s character.  I’ve leveled some of the same accusations against him myself.

And anyone ticked off and railing against abuse, especially the kinds being talked about here, is welcome company.

But claiming that the LGBT-especially-the-T community somehow has zero predators and bad guys in it? Can we think about that one a minute?
 

Yeah, there is no end of hatred and vile heated rhetoric directed against it.  Can confirm: Plenty of victims in LGBT circles. I lost track of the “I was abused by a loved one as a kid” stories from those folks decades ago.  But the claim that predators and monsters and molesters and child groomers somehow aren’t found in the LGBT-especially-the-T community?  That’s simply a non serious position to take.  Taking issue with the nasty ppl yelling horrible things at TQIA+ is one thing.   Ignorance of/refusal to engage stories and lived experiences of ppl who have been hurt by members of/advocates for the TQIA+ community is something else.

I’m glad to see your energy on the issue BP.  I’ll give you the same suggestion I give everybody:  If you’re interested in taking a genuine stand against sexual abuse and molestation and crimes against children, attempts to clean up your own backyard will be more fruitful than slinging mud across the fence.  But first, you have to be willing to see it wherever you find it. Rainbow allies can make a bigger difference than I can.

The last time I gave this advice to an online battlin-buddy, it was to someone who flat-out claimed “Maybe the Boy Scouts in general had an issue, but that crap simply doesn’t exist in the Arrow of Light!” I gave him half a dozen stories from all over the country - the results of 5 minutes of googling. I guess seeing it happen that often in his treasured beloved circles was too much for him, and he quit the forum.  So I’ve learned to soften my tone on this topic.  Just consider: if only a half of a percent of the angry mudslinging against the trans community is valid, how many legit stories does that indicate? It’s easy math.

 I’m glad you’re here, @Phoenix_person.

[LDSGator]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I’m glad to see your energy on the issue

Speaking of energy, I think momentum is on the side of Kamala. At least right now.  

[Phoenix_person]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

But claiming that the LGBT-especially-the-T community somehow has zero predators and bad guys in it? Can we think about that one a minute?

No one has made that claim. 

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yeah, there is no end of hatred and vile heated rhetoric directed against it.  Can confirm: Plenty of victims in LGBT circles. I lost track of the “I was abused by a loved one as a kid” stories from those folks decades ago.  But the claim that predators and monsters and molesters and child groomers somehow aren’t found in the LGBT-especially-the-T community?  That’s simply a non serious position to take.  Taking issue with the nasty ppl yelling horrible things at TQIA+ is one thing.   Ignorance of/refusal to engage stories and lived experiences of ppl who have been hurt by members of/advocates for the TQIA+ community is something else.

I am glad to engage with and listen to people's stories of abuse without judgement whenever they confide in me to enough to share them. And yes, I have heard stories of terrible harm caused by LGBTQ people. I know there are abusers in that community. No community doesn't have them. When I learn of them, I give them the same vitriol I have for anyone else who hurts kids. They don't get to hide behind a rainbow flag. 

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I’m glad to see your energy on the issue BP.  I’ll give you the same suggestion I give everybody:  If you’re interested in taking a genuine stand against sexual abuse and molestation and crimes against children, attempts to clean up your own backyard will be more fruitful than slinging mud across the fence.  But first, you have to be willing to see it wherever you find it. Rainbow allies can make a bigger difference than I can.

I call it out where I see it. I've seen people, plural, I care about harmed by monsters who hid under the guise of piety and religious purity. That's why the issue of abusers in religious organizations is such a hot topic for me. 

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

The last time I gave this advice to an online battlin-buddy, it was to someone who flat-out claimed “Maybe the Boy Scouts in general had an issue, but that crap simply doesn’t exist in the Arrow of Light!” I gave him half a dozen stories from all over the country - the results of 5 minutes of googling. I guess seeing it happen that often in his treasured beloved circles was too much for him, and he quit the forum.  So I’ve learned to soften my tone on this topic.  Just consider: if only a half of a percent of the angry mudslinging against the trans community is valid, how many legit stories does that indicate? It’s easy math.

Yep, the BSA had a very public reckoning over abuse in their ranks. And yes, it's important for the same sex aspect of that abuse to be talked about. The uncomfortable truth that I find a lot of people of faith reluctant to engage with is the effect of religious purity culture on those who may not fit a heteronormative identity. To be clear, absolutely nothing excuses their behavior. But how often have we stopped to consider that maybe demanding total celibacy from people who are entrusted with the care of children might not be a good idea? Rules are made to be broken, but what if the easiest path for breaking the rules is to exploit the trust of a child? Faith communities are perfect targets for predators because they put men in positions of sacred power over their would-be victims. It's a vile manipulation that we see all too often in our religious communities. And yes, it permeates the LGBTQ community as well. The difference is that the LGBTQ community doesn't tell its members that they can't have consenting relations with other adults. There's an outlet for a lot of desires to be satisfied within legal and morally-acceptable means. What outlet does celibacy provide for those who don't have the discipline to adhere to it? Purity is a neat concept in theory, but mankind is anything but pure in reality. Sexual deviancy is often the path of those who don't know how to have healthy sexual relationships, or those who are deeply ashamed of their desires. 

[LDSGator]

I think the only thing we all can agree on is that abuse is horrible, and that the people who try to cover it up-from Catholic bishops (the rough equal of a stake president-not a perfect comparison but close enough) to LGBT leaders are human garbage. 

[The Folk Prophet]

18 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I think the only thing we all can agree on is that abuse is horrible,

Disagree!!

 

 

 

[Manners Matter]

3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Speaking of energy, I think momentum is on the side of Kamala. At least right now.  

Not if you're looking at reality. IIRC, last week I saw an article that showed people leaving an event once the singer finished and Kamala started and yesterday(?) they used a concert to look like a rally. From an article I just read this am:

"There is a reason why this team needs to rely on musicians and pop culture figures to draw a crowd. Democrats have to use college campuses and use musical events for their rally venues. Without manipulation of the audience and optics, they have nothing."

[Traveler]

14 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

....

while JD Vance's "weirdness" has been fabricated for memes, Trump's has not. There are real, documented accusations of predatory behavior. Heck, there's a recording of him bragging about assaulting women......

One of the first things I learned when I joined the military and experienced the “real world” is to not believe stuff people bragged about – especially when it came to predatory sexual behavior.  As for Trump – I do not know if he is a sexual predator or not.  I tend to not believe things that I cannot independently verify.  I do believe Trump to have narcissistic tendencies.  And one characteristic of a narcissist is to overstate and over believe their capabilities and adventures. 

I do not believe that a narcissist is a good leadership trait, but it is difficult to find that malady missing from those that rise to political leadership or any leadership for that matter.  We even have an LDS scripture in the D&C about that.  I am more concerned with those that have the ability to disguise their narcissism than those that are more open.   In short – I have become a very issue driven person – especially when it comes to politics.  I am more concerned with results than accusations from opposition.

Inflation comes from about a 2 year delay from its initial cause.  Politics misrepresent this and always blames their opposition or who is currently in power.  Most of the inflation (especially during the first two years of the Biden administration) happened because of the failed economic policies instituted during the Trump years.  But then, we have learned that the vast majority of recommendations from the medical community were the greater part of the economic problem and that the democrats were happier with the problem policies than the republicans. 

Besides the increases in government spending, the Biden administration has implemented vast changes that if not corrected (which in government spending reality - seems or is impossible) will accelerate inflation for at least the next 10 to 20 years regardless of which political party is in charge.  For example, the use of Social Security funds to finance the millions of immigrants seeking asylum (including medical coverages) will very soon not only add to inflation for decades but destroy the viability of Social Security for those that spent a lifetime paying into it, believing (or trusting) it would be available for their retirement.  Granted the use of SS funds for asylum was initiated before Biden but definitely, under the Biden administration the number seeking asylum has accelerated (deliberately and by design) into the millions.   I believe such actions to be treasonous because of the acts of misrepresentation the asylum need from countries with which we have somewhat friendly diplomatic relationships and because of the destructive result to our economy.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

15 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

......

Many people of faith buy into transphobic rhetoric and accusations while some of their own faith communities are infested with actual predators. Southern Baptists and Catholics both have very public predator problems. I know four LDS men with records of abuse and sexual assault. One of them was engaged to my sister when she found a hidden camera placed by him in her BYU-I dorm bathroom. Another is a former high school teacher who was married to an LDS high school friend of mine. I won't elaborate, but he's probably going to be in prison for the rest of his life.

A lot of children have been harmed by wolves in sheep's clothing and have seen their abusers suffer no consequences, or simply "go away". Sometimes the victims are manipulated into believing that they're at fault for the horrible thing that happened to them. Then they grow up and learn how many others have had similar experiences, and they start thinking that maybe the churches are filled with wolves. They even see known wolves propped up and celebrated by their former faith communities. It's not a fair characterization, but I think a lot of Christians underestimate how much harm some of their representatives have inflicted on the innocent.

There are several very glaring problems with the LGBTQ+ community and till they are addressed and resolved amicably there will remain real problems in any society that refuses to address what is going on.  Number one on my list is that science has known for decades that preferences in humans take place in the anterior cingulate cortex part of the brain.  This is true (especially true) for sexual preferences.  The anterior cingulate cortex part of the brain indicates that sexual preferences are learned or acquired behaviors and that no individual is born with any behavior controlled by the anterior cingulate cortex part of the brain.  It is a scientifically proven lie to attempt to institute any other reasons for LGBTQ+.

We also know that the anterior cingulate cortex part of the brain is not fully developed in humans until about the age of 25.  Any effort that indorses pre-adolescent learning of behavior that is known to enhance depression and suicidal behavior (which the LGBTQ+ community does by a vast majority) cannot be thought of as beneficial to any individual or society – I personally believe that support of such is criminal and definitely immoral because of the dilatory effect on society.  Especially when terms like transphobic and homophobic are invented and used to thwart actual scientific conclusions.

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

18 minutes ago, Manners Matter said:

Not if you're looking at reality. IIRC, last week I saw an article that showed people leaving an event once the singer finished and Kamala started and yesterday(?) they used a concert to look like a rally. From an article I just read this am:

"There is a reason why this team needs to rely on musicians and pop culture figures to draw a crowd. Democrats have to use college campuses and use musical events for their rally venues. Without manipulation of the audience and optics, they have nothing."

https://www.barrons.com/news/harris-neutralizing-a-key-trump-advantage-crowd-size-4bd3ed79
 

Okay, but Barrons is hardly part of the vast left wing conspiracy 

[NeuroTypical]

7 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

I've seen people, plural, I care about harmed by monsters who hid under the guise of piety and religious purity. That's why the issue of abusers in religious organizations is such a hot topic for me. 

That's fair, and also believable. 

 

7 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Faith communities are perfect targets for predators because they put men in positions of sacred power over their would-be victims. It's a vile manipulation that we see all too often in our religious communities.

Agreed.  Humans have certainly taken their sweet time figuring this out.  I was born in the 1970's, and grew up in a culture full of people who didn't believe it was possible for a husband to rape a wife.  And most of 'em absolutely refused to believe in even the possibility that child sex abuse was a thing.  Eight gazillion brain cells, and hardly anyone used more than eight of them to come up with statements like "those people should be taken out and shot" and "I can tell 'em when I see 'em" .  People would violently react against even the notion that it could happen in their own community/family/church/peer group.   And this wasn't an LDS thing, it was an entire-country-of-America thing.

I've watched things consistently change for the better ever since, but it's been a slow road.  The internet showed up and helped immensely.  I started seeing my church implement policies and procedures in the '90's, to deal with the predators who would seek leadership positions over youth, disappear right before they got caught, go to another city or state, and repeat the process.  The LDS permanent membership record became a thing, and a bishop could add an annotation to that record for felonies and such, that would follow members no matter where they went.  Bishops gained the ability to send messages to each other about members.  I remember for a period of like 4-5 years, we couldn't listen to a biannual General Conference without hearing one or two talks about how abuse is never excusable, never to be treated lightly.  About a decade after all that, the Catholic scandals broke, and I was like "welcome to the club folks, glad you got here eventually".  

These days, we have online training required for everyone that works with children.   I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/callings/safety/protecting-children-and-youth?lang=eng

 

7 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

The uncomfortable truth that I find a lot of people of faith reluctant to engage with is the effect of religious purity culture on those who may not fit a heteronormative identity.

I think I know what all those words mean.  Do I have religious purity culture?  The words seem strange to me.  Is that the same thing as valuing chastity and virtue, and trying to instill notions of 'sex only when married' to our children?   If so, I'd suggest such things are only partly religious in nature.  There are plenty of nonreligious, sociological, biological, even evolutionary arguments in favor of such things. 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

8 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

The internet showed up and helped immensely

the internet helped us all in so many ways. 

[Ironhold]

https://apnews.com/article/walz-swiftboating-kerry-trump-harris-national-guard-293e178ca9fe079e879787ee2269899e

The Associated Press is of the opinion that the stolen valor charges being leveled against Walz won't affect him as badly as they did against Kerry, but IMHO the fact that they're even bringing these charges up is telling about how concerned people are. 

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, Ironhold said:

https://apnews.com/article/walz-swiftboating-kerry-trump-harris-national-guard-293e178ca9fe079e879787ee2269899e

The Associated Press is of the opinion that the stolen valor charges being leveled against Walz won't affect him as badly as they did against Kerry, but IMHO the fact that they're even bringing these charges up is telling about how concerned people are. 

They are concerning, but not as concerning as Trumps age. He badly miscalculated by bringing up Bidens senility. Now, since Kamala is a generation younger than Trump, the democrats are going to ride that age horse until it crosses the derby finishing line.     

[Phoenix_person]

4 hours ago, Ironhold said:

https://apnews.com/article/walz-swiftboating-kerry-trump-harris-national-guard-293e178ca9fe079e879787ee2269899e

The Associated Press is of the opinion that the stolen valor charges being leveled against Walz won't affect him as badly as they did against Kerry, but IMHO the fact that they're even bringing these charges up is telling about how concerned people are. 

As a Reserve veteran and son of a retired Air Force Master Seargant, I can confirm that it's extremely unlikely that Walz knew about his unit's mobilization when he initiated his retirement process. I knew about my dad's retirement (and that of other aging military folks in our stake and NCOs I served with) months before it was official. As with all government jobs, military retirement involves a fair amount of paperwork and administrative procedures. 

And I agree with the belief that this won't be as harmful to Walz as it was to Kerry. Kerry ran during the second year of the Iraq War and three years after 9/11. Nationalism and pro-military sentiments were strong 20 years ago. For better or worse, that is no longer the case, especially among young voters. 

Edited August 15, 2024 by Phoenix_person

[Just_A_Guy]

On 8/8/2024 at 3:00 PM, NeuroTypical said:

That's fair, and also believable. 

 

Agreed.  Humans have certainly taken their sweet time figuring this out.  I was born in the 1970's, and grew up in a culture full of people who didn't believe it was possible for a husband to rape a wife.  And most of 'em absolutely refused to believe in even the possibility that child sex abuse was a thing.  Eight gazillion brain cells, and hardly anyone used more than eight of them to come up with statements like "those people should be taken out and shot" and "I can tell 'em when I see 'em" .  People would violently react against even the notion that it could happen in their own community/family/church/peer group.   And this wasn't an LDS thing, it was an entire-country-of-America thing.

I've watched things consistently change for the better ever since, but it's been a slow road.  The internet showed up and helped immensely.  I started seeing my church implement policies and procedures in the '90's, to deal with the predators who would seek leadership positions over youth, disappear right before they got caught, go to another city or state, and repeat the process.  The LDS permanent membership record became a thing, and a bishop could add an annotation to that record for felonies and such, that would follow members no matter where they went.  Bishops gained the ability to send messages to each other about members.  I remember for a period of like 4-5 years, we couldn't listen to a biannual General Conference without hearing one or two talks about how abuse is never excusable, never to be treated lightly.  About a decade after all that, the Catholic scandals broke, and I was like "welcome to the club folks, glad you got here eventually".  

These days, we have online training required for everyone that works with children.   I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/callings/safety/protecting-children-and-youth?lang=eng

 

I think I know what all those words mean.  Do I have religious purity culture?  The words seem strange to me.  Is that the same thing as valuing chastity and virtue, and trying to instill notions of 'sex only when married' to our children?   If so, I'd suggest such things are only partly religious in nature.  There are plenty of nonreligious, sociological, biological, even evolutionary arguments in favor of such things. 

 

 

I agree that religious/conservative communities have often been inexcusably slow to root out predators in their midst.  But I think it bears repeating that it’s ludicrous on its face to suggest that children are in anything like as much danger in a community that condemns and suppresses fetishism, kink, and the flouting of sexual boundaries as those children are in a community that lionizes those traits.

Additionally, while the etiology of gender dysphoria is not well understood (and may well differ in male —> female versus female —> male cases, or even between individual cases), the overwhelmingly common presence of an autogynephilia element among male —> female transgenders has been long established.  Frankly:  a high proportion of them are fetishists and exhibitionists and/or enjoy transgresiveness more for its inherently transgressive nature than because of any fundamental underlying sexual orientation or preference; and people like that shouldn’t be trusted around kids.  

Edited August 15, 2024 by Just_A_Guy

[LDSGator]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

agree that religious/conservative communities have often been inexcusably slow to root out predators in their midst.

Yup. Catholicism is in a free fall in New England because of the scandal-and because of how the church and the members tried to point fingers, downplay it, cover it up, blame “the gays.”
 

I am 100% convinced that in 50 years people will be studying this as the biggest PR disaster in history. Other churches-and even other businesses- should take notes on what not to do during a PR crisis because of this. 

[JohnsonJones]

On 8/8/2024 at 11:20 AM, Traveler said:

Granted the use of SS funds for asylum was initiated before Biden but definitely, under the Biden administration the number seeking asylum has accelerated (deliberately and by design) into the millions.   I believe such actions to be treasonous because of the acts of misrepresentation the asylum need from countries with which we have somewhat friendly diplomatic relationships and because of the destructive result to our economy.

 

The Traveler

 

Of interest...After the REPUBLICANS blocked bills to help stem the flow and stop illegal immigration...the Biden administration still attempted to something about it, or all they could even if the Republicans WANTED TO KEEP THE BORDER OPEN to ALL SORTS OF IMMIGRATION.

So what did the Biden administration do.  Something VERY simple.  Previously, border agents were required to ask if the individual crossing the border wanted asylum.

Now...they don't.

Quote

The number of people asking for haven in the United States has dropped by 50 percent since June, according to new figures from the Department of Homeland Security. Border agents are operating more efficiently, administration officials say, and many of the hot spots along the border, like Eagle Pass, Texas, have calmed.

The numbers could provide a powerful counternarrative to what has been one of the Biden administration’s biggest political vulnerabilities, particularly as Vice President Kamala Harris, the Democratic presidential nominee, tries to fend off Republican attacks

-----------------

Under the new rules, border agents are no longer required to ask migrants whether they fear for their lives if they are returned home. Unless the migrants raise such a fear on their own, they are quickly processed for deportation to their home countries.

Biden Asylum restrictions

Quote

New Immigration Court cases continue their dramatic fall following President Biden’s June 4, 2024 proclamation severely restricting entry for those seeking asylum.[1] See Figure 1. In July 2024 case-by-case court records compiled by the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC) show new cases fell to just 83,018. This is less than one-third (31%) of the number of new cases which arrived last December 2023 – a drop of over 180,000 cases.

-----------------------

Numerically, the largest drop in receipts occurred for Immigration Courts in Texas (down over 25,000), New York (down over 21,000), and Florida (down over 20,000). Minnesota and Tennessee Immigration Courts had the largest proportionate drop in new filings. July numbers were less than 25 percent of their respective arriving cases last December.

 

Dramatic Fall continues in Immigration Court Cases

[JohnsonJones]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:54 PM, Phoenix_person said:

As a Reserve veteran and son of a retired Air Force Master Seargant, I can confirm that it's extremely unlikely that Walz knew about his unit's mobilization when he initiated his retirement process. I knew about my dad's retirement (and that of other aging military folks in our stake and NCOs I served with) months before it was official. As with all government jobs, military retirement involves a fair amount of paperwork and administrative procedures. 

And I agree with the belief that this won't be as harmful to Walz as it was to Kerry. Kerry ran during the second year of the Iraq War and three years after 9/11. Nationalism and pro-military sentiments were strong 20 years ago. For better or worse, that is no longer the case, especially among young voters. 

From what I read...he knew.

At the latest, he knew ONE MONTH after, and several months before he actually retired.

The way he's handled it DOES bother me.

The ONLY way I could really feel good about his choice without hearing a better excuse than what I've heard thus far is that he actually went to Iraq the first time around (in the early 90s.  That way we would KNOW he would go when called up and this wasn't an instance of him simply shirking when the going got tough.

Them harping on 24 years of service is interesting, but 24 years in the Guard isn't equal to 24 years active duty.  Sure, he served...but unless he was actually deployed or activated..he was a peacetime Guard under the service of a governor.   Even activated...was it for a purpose other than training?

I don't have a problem with him claiming the rank (it was the rank he was serving as, even if he didn't qualify for retirement from it.  It was taken from him due to technicalities, but he DID actually serve as THAT rank while in).

I DO have a problem with someone skirting out of a deployment.  Probably because I served far to long in a "deployment" situation long ago.

JD Vance may have been a backliner...but at least he went.

Thus, I have MIXED feelings on Walz currently.  I respect that he did 24 years in the guard.  I respect that he was an enlisted member and served in enlisted leadership.  I respect that when he was elected (and there was NO guarantee he would be elected the first time which was his supposed "reasoning" for choosing to get out when he did over going with the forces to be deployed) he tried to help Veterans and push bills to help Veterans.

Note, he DID technically deploy in 2003...He got to spend time in Italy rather than Afghanistan.  At least his unit was deployed at that time.  Papers indicate he went with the support groups in Italy rather than elsewhere...from what I've read.  (Edit: AS this WAS an official support duty for OEF in Italy, I THINK it actually qualifies him as an OEF veteran...not positive as I don't know the qualifiers for it, but I think it would as he would have been official support).

I would be lying though if the things that some have stated about the timing and the deployment and his choice of retirement didn't bother me.

The Timing as I understand it...

1.  They are notified there is a possible deployment coming in the next changeovers.  As a Command Sergeant Major he should have been aware of this. (late 2024/early 2025)

2.  He puts his papers in for retirement.

3.  A month later his unit is put on standby for deployment, meaning they WILL deploy sometime in the next 24 months.

4.  Five months later he puts in his official retirement papers (note, he would have been working on retirement paperwork before this, these are the official papers to finalize that he is actually retiring).

5.  He retires.

6.  His unit deploys. (late 2005)

So, maybe it's a nothingburger and I shouldn't be bothered, but it does.  Something just seems off about his retirement timing and it actually does bother me when thinking about it.  Perhaps I shouldn't be bothered. 

Edited August 26, 2024 by JohnsonJones

[Phoenix_person]

6 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

So, maybe it's a nothingburger and I shouldn't be bothered, but it does.  Something just seems off about his retirement timing and it actually does bother me when thinking about it.  Perhaps I shouldn't be bothered. 

I deployed to Iraq three times. My first mobilization orders came a month after my 18th birthday. I volunteered for the second tour because I needed the money. I volunteered for the third tour because we initially thought we were going to Afghanistan and I wanted to see one more country before I got out. I actually could have sat that one out and waited out the remaining months of my contract. Instead, I signed an enlistment extension so I could deploy. 20 years after my first orders came, I have very conflicted feelings about my time in the military. On a personal level, I never supported the Iraq invasion. I even handed out black armbands at my high school to protest the invasion, even as I was in the process of getting cleared to enlist. For better or worse, my time in the military molded me into the person I am today. And based on my personal experiences, I absolutely do not begrudge someone with 24 years in service the decision to sit out the Iraq War.

I wish Walz would be a bit more transparent about his service, but expecting transparency from a politician is as useful as expecting my cat to pick up my guitar and play "Eruption". That's why for me, generally, the fact that someone served at all is usually good enough. Unless there's an egregious inconsistency or falsehood, I don't care much about the details. I don't care that Vance was a journalist in the Marines. During my second tour, a post office worker was killed when a mortar round hit the chow hall at a base we were passing through. There was no truly safe job north of the Kuwaiti border, especially in those first 5 years. I dislike Vance for other reasons, but I have no nagging concerns with his military service, or with Walz's.

[LDSGator]

23 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

wish Walz would be a bit more transparent about his service

I’m not even sure what the issue is here. I don’t trust the right wingers who claim he stole valor-but what is the issue they are complaining about?