Went shooting today with my cousin and oldest son.

[Vort]

Note to self: 16 rounds from a .44 revolver makes your wrists and shoulders hurt. Plus the heavier gun is hard to aim accurately past about 30 feet if unsupported.

Edited November 17, 2024 by Vort

[Traveler]

I have never liked handguns (pistols).  I prefer rifles.  My favorite is the .270 Winchester for its flat trajectory.  If I were to select something for protection it would be a 12-guage shotgun with a detachable box magazine for faster reloading.

 

The Traveler

[Vort]

We only used the plinking range, so handguns and a .22 rifle were all we shot.

[Jamie123]

When my father was a young man he and my mother spent a few years in Aden, which was not then part of Yemen but a British protectorate. He was a volunteer part time policeman. This was potentially quite a dangerous job - more dangerous than he let on to my mother, 'coz otherwise there's no way she'd have let him do it. He had a pistol, but (if I remember the story correctly) he was always told to practice shooting it from the hip. The thinking was that by the time you'd lifted your gun to eye level to get a better aim, the other guy would have shot you. I don't believe he ever actually fired it in anger, but he came close a few times.

Edited November 16, 2024 by Jamie123

[The Folk Prophet]

On 11/15/2024 at 9:26 PM, Vort said:

Note to self: 16 rounds from a .44 revolver makes your wrists and shoulders hurt. Plus the heavier gun is hard to aim accurately past about 30 feet if unsupported.

I went to the range once and rented about 10 different handguns in different calibers. That started my life-long (haha.... meaning the past like 10 years) love of 1911s. But... here's the one thing I learned for myself. A .45 glock is not for me. Because.... yeah. Hurt my stinking wrist! The lightweight gun with a .45 kicked like a mule. The same caliber in the 1911 was great! I own a 1911, but in 9mm. That's mostly because all my other guns are 9mm and so... you know. I'm more into the idea of .45 for a 1911. Because... you know... America!

But...I digress.

The overall point was simply to say that I understand.

[Carborendum]

9 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I went to the range once and rented about 10 different handguns in different calibers. That started my life-long (haha.... meaning the past like 10 years) love of 1911s. But... here's the one thing I learned for myself. A .45 glock is not for me. Because.... yeah. Hurt my stinking wrist! The lightweight gun with a .45 kicked like a mule. The same caliber in the 1911 was great! I own a 1911, but in 9mm. That's mostly because all my other guns are 9mm and so... you know. I'm more into the idea of .45 for a 1911. Because... you know... America!

I had a similar reaction to the Glock.  But it hurt my whole hand.  The stinging was as if someone slapped my hand really hard.  Part of it may have been that it was a .45 instead of a 9mm (which I've settled into).  But I have not tried the 1911.  I'm told that it is the most popular gun in history for a reason -- it is comfortable.

Because everyone in my family has a 9mm, I'm not really interested in the .45s anymore.  But I'd really like to try a 9mm 1911.  I haven't found one for rental at any range I've been to.  Probably too expensive.  All my guns have been under $900 (except for my .30-06).  To get a 1911 will be well above $1000.  I just don't know if I want to invest that much on a gun that may not be a good fit for me.

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But I have not tried the 1911

Shooting a .45 1911 feels akin to shooting a 9mm glock as far as kick goes. Not too bad. It's the weight of the gun that keeps the kick down.

My 9mm 1911 isn't as chill as I anticipated though. The kick on it feels similar to my other 9mm guns. Probably is slightly less, but not so much so that I was like "wow" or something.

And, FWIW, I paid like $250 for my 9mm 1911. Granted, it was on sale at the time. But you can pick up a Rock Island Armory 1911 for sub $500 pretty easily. Yeah, it's not going to be as high quality as the "nice" ones. But they're rated pretty well for a low priced 1911.

[Vort]

I do not own a handgun, and I'm not planning on getting one any time soon. But if I got one, it would be a 9mm. I want to train with any firearm I own or may carry, and a hand cannon like a .44 or .45 is just too much gun for me. Plus I don't like the idea of spending a mortgage payment every month for ammo.

[Carborendum]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

I do not own a handgun, and I'm not planning on getting one any time soon. But if I got one, it would be a 9mm. I want to train with any firearm I own or may carry, and a hand cannon like a .44 or .45 is just too much gun for me. Plus I don't like the idea of spending a mortgage payment every month for ammo.

The cost of ammo was a big factor in choosing what would be the standard for my family.  A gun is of no use if you can't shoot with accuracy.  And you can't get accurate without a lot of practice (which = money being burned).

.45 proponents will tell you that they have greater stopping power.  But studies from police encounters indicate that it is only marginally better than 9mm 124 grain.  If you have a smaller 9mm, the effectiveness drops off a lot.

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

The cost of ammo was a big factor in choosing what would be the standard for my family.  A gun is of no use if you can't shoot with accuracy.  And you can't get accurate without a lot of practice (which = money being burned).

Agreed. Plus the fact that, even with ear protection, the .44 was just LOUD. I can't imagine how loud it must be without ear protection. People who practiced with large-caliber handguns back in the day, when ear protection was unheard of (see what I did there?), couldn't have made out well.

[Carborendum]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Agreed. Plus the fact that, even with ear protection, the .44 was just LOUD. I can't imagine how loud it must be without ear protection. People who practiced with large-caliber handguns back in the day, when ear protection was unheard of (see what I did there?), couldn't have made out well.

Yeah, I remember trying a .44 as well as a .45 when I was first starting out.  They shocked my hand.  I thought it was just because I'm a small guy with small hands.  But others have complained about the same thing.  Also, the .38 special (the A-D equivalent to the 9mm) has such a powder charge that it is just as shocking as the .45.

One more thing: When I shoot the 115 gr vs the 124 gr, I don't notice any difference in recoil or difficulty in shooting.  So, I practice with 115 gr because it is cheaper.  And every 10th visit to the range, I'll shoot 124 gr.  And I don't notice any difference in accuracy.  And the cost difference is significant.

I'll always keep a magazine of 124 gr in my gun safe for actual use (which I hope I never need).

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

and a hand cannon like a .44 or .45 is just too much gun for me.

Commie!

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

A gun is of no use if you can't shoot with accuracy.

I'm not sure this is true. I mean, obviously...it IS true. But it's not true too. A baseball bat doesn't do any good either if you miss. But the reality is that most self defense needs for a gun are (at least as far as I understand) close quarters. Accuracy isn't the issue.

Training is still very, very, important. But the chance of having to shoot a mass shooter or the like from 50 yards with your P365 is not really the likely self defense scenario where a gun becomes useful. The meth-head who pulls a knife on you trying to steal your car is much more the potential case.

General accuracy matters. But most people can do that naturally. Anyone can hit anyone else with any gun from under 5 feet.

That's my best understanding. I'm not expert. So just my view.

[Vort]

16 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Commie!

I'm well-read and, well, red.

[mirkwood]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

I do not own a handgun, and I'm not planning on getting one any time soon. But if I got one, it would be a 9mm. I want to train with any firearm I own or may carry, and a hand cannon like a .44 or .45 is just too much gun for me. Plus I don't like the idea of spending a mortgage payment every month for ammo.

 

90% of my practice is dry fire.  Buy the gun.

[The Folk Prophet]

19 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

 

90% of my practice is dry fire.  Buy the gun.

Same. I got a laser cartridge and a responsive target that goes "bang" when the light hits it.

[Carborendum]

12 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Same. I got a laser cartridge and a responsive target that goes "bang" when the light hits it.

I gotta get me one of them.

12 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

But the chance of having to shoot a mass shooter or the like from 50 yards with your P365 is not really the likely self defense scenario where a gun becomes useful.

True.  But that's not the scenario I'm preparing for.  It's about home defense.

I go to two (pistol) ranges in my area.  The larger one maxes out at 25 yards.  Currently, I'm able to hit a cantaloupe-sized target at 15 yards (I miss about once or twice per 15 round mag).  My goal is to be able to miss once (or less) every hour of practice (about 150 rounds) at 25 yards.  That's going to take a while. 

My house is long and skinny.  It is about 80-85 ft lengthwise on the inside.  I could perceivably be at one end of a long hallway and series of doors and see someone on the other end of the house.  I want to be able to hit the guy's head if he's got my wife hostage.

Eventually, I want to prepare for stuff outside the house.  Everyday carry is different than home defense.  My home defense gun is the Sig SP2022.  That's too bulky for my body shape/size to conceal. I used to have a Beretta PX4 Storm because I heard so many good things about it.  But I had a bad experience with that.

So, I'm looking.  And I'll need to practice the motion of taking it out surreptitiously.  The big thing is that I'll need to instinctively chamber the round as I do so.  That will take some practice because I've programed myself to always keep in unchambered for safety.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I gotta get me one of them.

True.  But that's not the scenario I'm preparing for.  It's about home defense.

I go to two (pistol) ranges in my area.  The larger one maxes out at 25 yards.  Currently, I'm able to hit a cantaloupe-sized target at 15 yards (I miss about once or twice per 15 round mag).  My goal is to be able to miss once (or less) every hour of practice (about 150 rounds) at 25 yards.  That's going to take a while. 

My house is long and skinny.  It is about 80-85 ft lengthwise on the inside.  I could perceivably be at one end of a long hallway and series of doors and see someone on the other end of the house.  I want to be able to hit the guy's head if he's got my wife hostage.

Eventually, I want to prepare for stuff outside the house.  Everyday carry is different than home defense.  My home defense gun is the Sig SP2022.  That's too bulky for my body shape/size to conceal. I used to have a Beretta PX4 Storm because I heard so many good things about it.  But I had a bad experience with that.

So, I'm looking.  And I'll need to practice the motion of taking it out surreptitiously.  The big thing is that I'll need to instinctively chamber the round as I do so.  That will take some practice because I've programed myself to always keep in unchambered for safety.

My home/bedside safe gun is a H&K P30 with a compensator and light attached. It has the LEM trigger which I quite like. I need to practice with it more the way you describe, just in case. But, really, what I need to get is a shotgun for home defense.

My EDC (which I don't EDC... but in theory), is a Sig P365x. When I do carry, I do with a round in the chamber. but I got the version with the manual safety. I practice drawing and turning off the safety daily though. That seems significantly better to me as an practice than having to chamber a round.

[Carborendum]

9 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

My home/bedside safe gun is a H&K P30 with a compensator and light attached. It has the LEM trigger which I quite like. I need to practice with it more the way you describe, just in case. But, really, what I need to get is a shotgun for home defense.

My EDC (which I don't EDC... but in theory), is a Sig P365x. When I do carry, I do with a round in the chamber. but I got the version with the manual safety. I practice drawing and turning off the safety daily though. That seems significantly better to me as an practice than having to chamber a round.

Both of those look like good candidates.  I'll talk to my local gun store and see what they say.

I'd never heard of H&K.  I guess I need to get with the times.  And I'd heard the term compensator in passing lines in movies. But I just looked it up for the first time.  That sounds like it would be useful.  But wouldn't it tend to make it more difficult to carry concealed?

As far as chambering a round.  I learned a scary lesson once.

I was skeet shooting.  I loaded a shotgun with a round chambered.  Then I proceeded to walk to the shooting position.  But as I walked over there, I noticed my safety was off.  So, I clicked in on with the weapon pointing to the ground.  When I did so, the round went off.  It took the dirt off the front edge of my boot, and there was a hole in the ground about the size of a silver dollar.

No, I don't want to ever carry with a round chambered until I'm ready to use it.

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But wouldn't it tend to make it more difficult to carry concealed?

Depends. The P365 and other similar sized micro compact guns have versions with a compensator built in to the slide. They're small enough that it doesn't affect things. On a larger gun, yeah, makes them even larger. I could carry my P30 with it, I think...but it means a different holster, which I don't have. But I don't like carrying larger guns. Mostly because of weight. Concealment is another issue. But it's comfort that really becomes the issue.

You do need to be concerned with reliability with a compensator. They can cause issues. So if you add one to anything, you need to shoot with it enough to trust the gun. The ones with built in compensation you don't have to worry as much, usually.

[mirkwood]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

So, I clicked in on with the weapon pointing to the ground.  When I did so, the round went off.  It took the dirt off the front edge of my boot, and there was a hole in the ground about the size of a silver dollar.

No, I don't want to ever carry with a round chambered until I'm ready to use it.

 

That is either a defective firearm or you hit the trigger.  

 

You are way behind the curve if you carry without one in the chamber.

 

I EDC a Glock 17 with a Holosun optic.

 

Again, practice, practice, practice.  Dry fire...a lot.

[Carborendum]

10 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

That is either a defective firearm or you hit the trigger.  

I definitely didn't hit the trigger.  I purposefully placed my finger outside the trigger guard.  The fact that it can be defective is the reason I refuse to do it, even if an expert (such as you) says I should.

Also, I was led to believe that shotguns specifically have this tendency much more than pistols.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Carborendum

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I definitely didn't hit the trigger.  I purposefully placed my finger outside the trigger guard.  The fact that it can be defective is the reason I refuse to do it, even if an expert (such as you) says I should.

Also, I was led to believe that shotguns specifically have this tendency much more than pistols.

Sounds like the lesson is, don't try and appendix carry a shotgun.  

Edited November 19, 2024 by The Folk Prophet

[LDSGator]

2 hours ago, mirkwood said:

Again, practice, practice, practice.

Good advice if you want to get better at anything, really. 

[mirkwood]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I definitely didn't hit the trigger.  I purposefully placed my finger outside the trigger guard.  The fact that it can be defective is the reason I refuse to do it, even if an expert (such as you) says I should.

Also, I was led to believe that shotguns specifically have this tendency much more than pistols.

 

If you still have that shotgun you better go get it repaired or trigger lock it permanently and never shoot it again.