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I've managed it a few times. In the '90's, I fought to learn how to forgive and love someone. I had to figure out how to do it while at the same time taking action that resulted in their excommunication and a 5 year prison sentence for their crimes. Dude hurt people close to me, in ways that land you in prison for 5-life. I honestly, without exaggeration or embellishment, figured out how to love him. It involved more than a little praying. Initially for the ability to love him, later specifically for him. It was sort of a 'climb mount everest' moment for me. Pretty easy to love all the other humans after that. No matter how they howl for my blood or the downfall of my nation or whatever. It's a thing that gets easier with practice. If you want another example of it being done, read what the Amish did to their serial killer: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2007/05/the-healing-power-of-forgiveness?lang=eng#p9

Maybe they've caught up since 2008, but this has always stuck with me Hillsdale College's Imprimis, January 2008: There you have Canadian health care in a nutshell. After all, you can’t expect a G-7 economy of only 30 million people to be able to offer the same level of neonatal intensive care coverage as a town of 50,000 in remote, rural Montana. And let’s face it, there’s nothing an expectant mom likes more on the day of delivery than 300 miles in a bumpy twin prop over the Rockies. Everyone knows that socialized health care means you wait and wait and wait—six months for an MRI, a year for a hip replacement, and so on. But here is the absolute logical reductio of a government monopoly in health care: the ten month waiting list for the maternity ward.

For the record, I agree with Vort here. MSNBC and CNN can both take a long walk off a short pier along with Fox and OAN.

Nice to see you, @SpiritDragon!

I'd be inclined to speak on symbolism in the scriptures and becoming more fluent in the language of symbols to get more out our temple experiences. Alternatively, I'd speak about Identity. Pres. Nelson has taught the importance of three core identities of Child of God, Child of the Covenant, and Disciple of Christ. I'd link this to the concept of many examples where the individuals or people as a community had mighty changes of heart leading to a state of no desire to sin, but to follow the Lord. This would be tied to how a core identity dictates behavior. I'd probably draw on a quote like Boyd K. Packer speaking about how the study of the gospel changes behavior faster than the study of behavior - perhaps sprinkle in the story of the son of the French king (Louis 14?) when asked why he wouldn't succumb to debauchery around him on offer and he stated because he was the son of the king, or perhaps just the idea that someone who identifies as a non-smoker being very unlikely to want a cigarette- the idea would be drawing together how really coming to believe within one's self these core identities would work wonders to correct to behaviors.

That’s very sweet @NeuroTypical, and I’m proud of you, but I still think I was exactly right. Take the CES letter. Can you tell me with a straight face that if Jeremy Runnells got into a car crash, members wouldn’t be-I don’t want to say happy, but not upset either. Same with Sandra Tanner. I’ve heard members say absolutely vile things about those people. In fact, I’ve heard people here say vile things about those who disagree with them here! It does not take much of a jump to see that turning the other cheek is…like I said…just words, much less loving the enemy. Let me be clear-for the second time, I include myself. I’m just as guilty, 100%. So no, I do not hold myself up as more virtuous.

So, Gaetz is gone. Now, Hegseth is a different matter. Knee jerk reaction from the left was that he was only a news contributor who knew nothing about the militiary. He was a Major with two Bronze Stars. Accused of sexual assault. But investigation indicated that the woman in question was just trying to hide her affair from her husband. Accused of drinking on the job. But everyone who worked closely with him said that was a blatant lie and he never showed any such symptoms. Now accused of lying about being accepted to West Point. Turns out that a bureaucrat at the school disseminated false information on that point.... err... they "made an administrative error." uh-huh. Why are they trying so hard to keep him from this post? I'd think that if the opposition is working this hard to get rid of him, there must be a reason why it is bad for the deep state. Keep going, Pete.

Gotcha. So, my point stands. You've already got a socialized government run option, and you picked the one administered through the for-profit company. You have only one choice. You can't afford one, and you can afford the other. So you pick the other. Because one isn't viable and the other is. The socialized government run one is the not-viable one. The one administered through the for-profit company is the viable one. And your solution is to get rid of the for profit one, and make socialized government run one the only option for everybody. Existing socialized government-run option: Not viable. VA administered through UHC: Viable. Right?

I know people on the right and the left who lack the ability to even speak to one another. Yet two supreme court justices who have deeply different views and highly political jobs actually hung out together and were friends. This one, thankfully, doesn’t apply to me. I have deep friendships with atheists, believers, liberals, nonpolitical people and conservatives. Wouldn’t trade any of them for the world. Sometimes we laugh at those who live in echo chambers. Easy targets.

Ginsburg too, but yes, Kagan was a friend of Scalia. https://www.risch.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2016/8/justice-elena-kagan-talks-about-her-warm-relationship-with-her-late-colleague-antonin-scalia From the article. Scalia took Kagan to his gun club and began teaching her gun safety and how to shoot. After he declared her ready, the two began taking hunting trips together, which is when they began to bond. Birds in Virginia, deer in Wyoming, duck in Mississippi — over the years, the justices traveled, hunted and got to know each other better. "He was as generous and warm and funny as a person could be. I just so appreciate all the time I got to spend with him," she said. "I miss him a lot."

Ketanji Jackson Brown. ZERO Democrats voted against her. And then there was this judicial nominee that had no experience to warrant such a post. ZERO Democrats voted against her. There were plenty more. One nominee was asked what Article III of the US Constitution covered. Her answer was that she was not very familiar with that article. It's the part of the Constitution that covers the Judicial Branch of the Federal Govt. ZERO Democrats voted against her. So, if you want to argue "quality" of the nominees, that doesn't hold water.

I literally did not have a choice. The VA is my ONLY medical lifeline. I don't have a say in how they administer health plans or which companies they go through. During one inprocessing session for a former job, my boss (who was also a long-time friend of mine) told me he hoped my wife had good insurance (she did), because he didn't and neither would I if I used their insurance provider. I think I stated elsewhere that I estimated my personal "repair costs" to possibly be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. I don't actually know the full cost because all of the inpatient costs were covered and I was on too many opioids to read stacks of EOBs. I stumbled across my EOB from an inpatient procedure I had this past April. It was fully covered by my VA plan, but I went ahead and looked at the total cost for that one procedure. It was in the ballpark of $120k. What exactly did they do? Technically, it was two procedures. The first was to create an opening in my right arm and stuff it with bovine tissue to improve the natural extension of that arm. Two weeks later, they removed some skin from my upper thigh and used it to close up my arm. The area operated on is the one circled above. It cost $100k plus to do that. For reference, my other arm looks very similar, and these are my legs: So yeah, my estimated cost for my care MIGHT have been short by a million or three. And as I said, my VA plan is my only viable option right now. Without it, I wouldn't be able to walk today, mostly because my quality of life would be worse to such an extent that I would have ended up finishing the job. My experience with government-administered care has been exceptional. I recognize that not everyone is so lucky, particularly quite a few non-veterans who have employer-subsidized UHC plans. I'm not far left on this issue because of my personal experiences. I'm far left on this issues because of the stories I've heard from those less fortunate than I am. I'm in this fight for them. Also, looking at my care in terms of financial cost reminds me that most of the costs that we associate with healthcare are the result of healthcare providers getting accustomed to having everything the patient needed covered by insurance and inflating costs as a result. Yes, I fully realize that my care would have been prohibitively expensive regardless of how it was broken down. Even so, I never would have guessed the ACTUAL absurdity of the ACTUAL cost. It makes you wonder how much of the taxpayer-funds for my rehab was for the true cost of the care and how much was for the benefit of a P/L statement. It's probably a safe bet that multiple companies profited from my mental health crisis in no insignificant way. True single payer on the state level isn't possible without true single payer on the federal level, and single payer is the ultimate goal. Minnesota is doing literally everything it can to build up MNcare within the confines of our federal federal system. We're currently working on a public option. Yes, there are federal funds involved. It's literally what they're there for. There are also state-level tax increases in the works to help fund the public option if/when we get there. And when we talk about the successes and failures of other nations, it's important to remember that we live in the wealthiest nation on the planet, by a fairly wide margin. Yes, other countries have tried it. Those countries don't have our resources. https://www.statista.com/statistics/268173/countries-with-the-largest-gross-domestic-product-gdp/ It's interesting to look at comparisons of how other countries compare in administrating health care. All of them have weak areas, but the US seems to ONLY have weak areas unless you're wealthy enough for insurance issues to not matter much. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly As far as nationalized systems go, I've heard that Canada has one of the worse ones. FWIW, I've heard that from Canadian leftists (and the cited study seems to support that). I wouldn't wish that maternity experience on anyone. Unfortunately, recent SCOTUS activity has created conditions much like the one described above in some US states. And it doesn't always have a happy ending for the women in the equation down here. THESE are the women affected by restrictions on late-term care that could save their lives at the expense of the baby's. And yes, it's tragic regardless of outcome, unless both mother and child overcome impossible odds. 100% of these women, and the women who got care and lived at the expense of the fetus, wanted the baby to live. The women who survive mourn the loss of their baby. I'm sure many have funerals. I wish more conservatives read these stories before voting for late-term abortion bans. I believe that all abortion bans are anti-woman, but late ones especially. Those are never elective.

Now you're making it weird. And still full of logical fallacies according to these three lines. Clearly you don't know any better. Your understanding of evidence reminds me of the kindly elderly gentlemen, ostensibly a tour guide at the Conference Center in SLC, who followed me around with his loose-leaf book of photos of showcasing Nephite petroglyphs, including Moroni's signature: the letters "M-O-R" engraved above an etching of a human eye: Mor-on-eye, Moroni. Clear as the nose on your face. I will reply when you post proper (by scholarly standards) historical evidence that Joseph Smith instituted the ban. Why don't you send your collection and treatise to the Church History Office and ask them to comment on how the evidence reasonably proves that Joseph Smith instituted the ban?

You reminded us of the Paul Pelosi scrape from a liberal news source. To give you the conservative veiwpoint on the Pelosi thing: Most conservatives were not "making light" of the event. We were simply confused by the coverage of the event. No one was telling us what the heck happened. Everything we heard raised more questions as bits and pieces came out. Whatever errors there were was because it was all confusing. We were told that the police were called. Who called them? How did they know what was going on inside the house? It couldn't have been a neighbor since it was it so quiet that when the police arrived, they didn't notice anything amiss as they approached the door. We were told that the door was "opened". Not "open," but "Opened." By whom? Was it left open and the report just used the wrong word? Who opened it? Was it the police? Or was it Paul (that was the seemingly immediate understanding). Then if he had the ability to open the door, how did he get into a grapple with a hatchet or whatever the tool was just seconds later? They had just heard the police announcing themselves. Yet, in that time, Paul was able to leave the intruder, open the door, then get back to the intruder? That was what we were hearing from official police reports. And conservative pundits were saying "that doesn't make any sense." We got a lot of the details wrong because none of it made any sense. We decried that it didn't make any sense. And the liberal media decided that we were spreading misinformation for complaining that these bits and pieces weren't making any sense. I'm still not clear on what the motives were. This guy was clearly fringe whack-job regardless. And the idea that the US political climate is somehow responsible for a "Canadian far-right conspiracy theorist" (which is almost a contradiction in terms) is not compelling. I asked for: Your examples: No paywall. It's an ad-wall. I'll need to change my settings for that when I get home. The tone is condemning. But no actual statements to that effect. The report was forensic. Again, I appreciate forensic. But that's not what I asked for.

Challenge accepted, because while I'm not as distraut as you are over this, the rise of political violence lately is certainly something to be gravely concerned about and it's important to both acknowledge the causes of it AND recognize that it's inherently evil regardless of victim, perpetrator, or reason. FWIW, I don't subscribe to any paywalled outlets either, with the lone exception of my local paper. I'll do my best though. As a start, while it's not murder, I haven't forgotten the outward glee many conservatives showed (and I'm not accusing anyone here, to be clear) at the attack, some might say attempted murder, of Paul Pelosi. Politico did a good article (with receipts) outlining the responses and jokes from various conservative figures following an attack that they half-heartedly condemned and from which Mr Pelosi is still recovering. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/31/conservatives-disinformation-paul-pelosi-assault-00064208 Conservative TV pundits and politicians spent months spinning conspiracy theories around what happened. https://www.foxnews.com/video/6316941382112 Interestingly enough, there WAS eventually video released of the attack, which promtly silenced the conspiracy theories for good. I couldn't find any news articles to that effect from a quick search, fwiw. As much as I despise Fox News because of some of their on-air "talent", their web articles are usually very balanced.

Let me start by saying: I'm not challenging you. I'm asking you. I want to believe that the nation is not that far gone. I want to believe it is just the fringe elements. But I'm just not seeing it. My neighbor IS condoning it. If he were younger, he WOULD be celebrating it. He thinks it is a good thing. And he supports the kid in his actions. I have noticed a LOT of conservative news outlets that write stories like that New Yorker article. Yet they ALWAYS emphasize that violence has no place in our political sphere. They say it multiple times -- condemning the violence. Yes, they go into motive and the facts of the case. But they don't show any sympathy to someone who committed the crime. Yet, here we are. I've shown what The New Yorker & CNN wrote. Tell you what. I really want to be on your side with this statement. Show me two things: (Again, I'm not challenging you. I'm asking you.) 1. A mainstream conservative news outlet that has rejoiced in the murder of a liberal figure in the past 8 years. 2. A mainstream liberal news outlet that has written an article like this that was NOT sympathetic to the murderer of a conservative figure and condemned violence in our political sphere -- in the past 8 years. Not a politician making a public statement and then forgets about it the next day. Not a single statement (which is not in any way reflected in the rest of the article) like the New Yorker that then changes the tone completely for the remainder of the article. I'm interested in a lengthy news article that decries the violence in overall tone of the whole article. I'm very pleased to hear that Taylor Lorenz was deplatformed from Vox, NYT, and WaPo for laughing and cheering when she heard the news. I applaud those outlets for this move. I'm hoping that they satisfy the qualifications that I listed above. But they're behind a paywall. And I'm not subscribing to those. Here's an article condemning conservatives for believing that the left is cheering this on. Then it goes into why the wealthy are oppressing the working class. IOW advancing the rhetoric that motivated the murder in the first place. Here's a non-mainstream article giving the requisite condemnation of violence, but then makes the entire article about how the murder was not about political rhetoric, but that Healthcare is broken. IOW advancing the rhetoric that motivated the murder in the first place. It is one thing to say that a criminal had motive to be displeased. It is another to be completely sympathetic to their cause. And it is still another to shout violent rhetoric because of their cause. Multiple AP articles covered this. And it was very forensic. It never brought up politics. "Just the facts of the case." I can appreciate this. But I'd like to see one mainstream liberal article discussing the violent rhetoric that motivated this. Multiple articles from the three big networks blaming Sarah Palin for causing the Gabby Gifford's shooting by putting a bullseye on a map. Still, we have free speech. And as long as it doesn't cross the line of "aiding and abetting" it is still legal (as it should be). But my neighbor is not just talking about the concepts and issues involved. He flat out said that he'd be completely willing to do the deed himself if he had the opportunity. How does that get into the mind of an everyday person who has a lot to lose? I'll end it with this:

Good to be visible

I have used your brick throwing analogy a few times.

An admonition from Pres Nelson's most recent conference talk: I call upon you to talk of Christ, testify of Christ, have faith in Christ, and rejoice in Christ!

It's unfortunate that you have never experienced anyone (yourself included?) who showed compassion even for those who were their "enemies". (I keep putting "enemies" in quotes because some of us don't have daily interactions with people we would call enemies - people who aren't friends, people who dislike us, perhaps, but not really enemies. If we have those, they tend to be people far away, who don't know us personally - like terrorists or President Biden...)

Okay. It’s not what I’ve seen, that’s for sure. I think I was exactly right. People talk about loving their enemy, forgiveness, turning the other cheek, pray for those who persecute you, but I’ve never see it in action. Just words.

No, not all. Obviously, I cannot begin to know the hearts of other Latter-day Saints, let alone other Christians, but I believe that those who are active, believing Christians - those who actually study what the Lord taught - are, as I am, striving to have compassion for all - to love our enemies, bless them that curse us, do good to them that hate us, and pray for them which despitefully use us, and persecute us. Our success rates may vary, but I choose to believe that many Christians are trying. And I believe it because there is nothing unique in the universe, so if I'm trying, so is someone else - and there are people better at it than I am, and worse at it than I am. It's the way of things. Some of us really do believe in the virtue of compassion, not the superficial imitation of "allegiance with the like-minded". Speak for yourself. As above, I cannot be the only person who feels sorrow when even my "enemies" suffer. In part because, guess what - when they suffer, my Savior suffers.

So, perhaps I could just take a moment and point out that even Mr. lets-get-rid-of-for-profit healthcare himself, when he has a choice between socialized and for-profit, choses the latter. I was discussing this stuff with my wife, who identifies as politically homeless. She had a suggestion which I find worthy of passing on to @Phoenix_person. You want socialized healthcare so much, pick a state and have them do it. Zero federal involvement/rules/money. All run completely by the state. If it's going to be so popular, surely it'll win over the residents of that state. I mean, we hear so much about the UK and Denmark, well, Cali's economy is larger than both I believe. It should be easy for them. Let's run the test and see how many CA house seats are lost after the next census.

Honestly, I fail to see how this makes OAN worse than MSNBC.

Ew. To the credit of all the Trump critics out there: In the last election, as November became December became January, Trump's tweeting claims of election fraud started with links to various articles from all over the place, to articles from a few fringey sites, to basically only articles from OAN. Anyone else ever listen to Coast To Coast with Art Bell? Overnight AM radio show, focusing on alien abductions and government mind control and the illuminati and all such conspiracy things. OAN has always given me serious CTC vibes, except whereas Art always knew he was an entertainer, OAN claims to be a news source. Again, Ew.

I had previously said: Here's what has happened: He's going to be a contributor to OAN. Uhmmm... That network is tanking worse than CNN & MSNBC. They may not be in existence next year. This tells me that the allegations were worse than the public knows about. So, yes. I'm changing my position on Gaetz until I hear something more reassuring.

Tabula Rasa = blank slate = forgiveness through the atonement of Jesus Christ. Or the innocence of a newborn baby. Maybe the idea of being washed clean through baptism. There is a stationery company by the name, but I find it easier to connect the baby to a gospel topic.

Because it's a hymn, it's a given that it must teach truth and thereby invite the Spirit. If it doesn't seem to do this, I may like it, but it doesn't make the top of my list. ("Scatter Sunshine" encourages good behavior, but it doesn't directly teach of (or even mention) Christ or His gospel. An atheist who believes in treating others kindly could sing this song without finding anything objectionable. Its presence in the hymn book kind of puzzles me.) The following are why I like a hymn - the more of these the hymn fits, the more and more likely I like it. These are not necessarily in order of importance (I'm not sure there is an order of importance as far as "like" goes). I didn't list it as a separate item, but if a hymn brings the Spirit so strongly that thinking about its meaning reduces me to tears, it's at the top of my list... 1. Directly teaches of Christ. (And even better if it includes restoration truths.) "I Stand All Amazed" is a good example here. I cannot both think about the meaning of the words and sing "I Stand All Amazed" - thinking about the meaning while the music is playing reduces me to tears (see also under #3 below).) It's hard for me to identify the difference between this and "I Believe in Christ"... Familiarity (see #5), music, emotion? ("I Stand All Amazed" is more internal and emotional, where "I Believe in Christ" is (to me at least) mostly a listing of factoids. And I can't seem to put myself in the position of "I", despite my testimony - I always experience this hymn as someone speaking to me, not as me speaking, and I have no idea why.) "Beautiful Savior" (children's songbook) is another I like (I seem to like lullaby music - here's MoTab, gently singing you to sleep) Nearly all the Sacrament, Christmas, and Easter hymns can go in here. 2. Tells a story or at least has a "character" in it. This might be the most important for me. I often have difficulty relating or feeling connected in real life, and yet I have no difficulty "moving in and living" a story, feeling deeply the emotions of the characters - indeed, it happens automatically and subconsciously with a well-told story. (#3 and #4 feed into this.) "A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief" is probably the best example, but a surprising number of hymns are story-like (it's a crime that we don't always sing all verses) "Nearer My God to Thee" took someone else pointing out that this is actually a story before I noticed it! "Come, Thou Fount of Every Blessing" - what a story! I like the original text. Interestingly, "Joseph Smith's First Prayer" tells a story, but I don't like it. It's too syrupy and past-tense and someone-else-y, not "this motivates me to do something-y" (see #4 and contrast with "Praise to the Man"). "Master, the Tempest Is Raging" "Be Still, My Soul" "How Gentle God's Commands" (also #3, #4, and lullaby-like) "Dear to the Heart of the Shepherd" "Onward, Christian Soldiers" (I also have a soft spot for marches - Rimsky-Korsakov does good marches) When you start looking, you find that a fair number of hymns at least have "characters" you can relate to, often a plot of sorts, and imagery which all work together to inspire faith in Christ. 3. Imagery, not just rhymes. To me, rhyming prose is not the same as poetry (even if technically it is poetry). If an image is worth a thousand words, a single poetic line paints a picture. "I Believe in Christ" is rhyming prose. (There are three, at most, images in it, but they're weak images, IMO.) "High on the Mountain Top" - good imagery, a sort of plot "How Firm a Foundation" - especially the 4 verses we don't usually sing - it's a crime that we don't sing all 7 verses every time (though I couldn't do it - I'd be weeping like a baby if I tried - the only way I can sing some hymns is if I can manage not to think about the meaning, but then, that seems to defeat the purpose (excuse me while I get a tissue - yes, literally, just got a tissue to wipe my eyes - can't even think about the full hymn without tears)); this might be my favorite hymn. "Beautiful Zion, Built Above" is one that includes beautiful and inspiring imagery. I also like the music. (And somehow it manages not to be syrupy.) "Rock of Ages" - we don't sing this enough "Angels from the Realms of Glory" (same author as "A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief") is full of powerful imagery The first two verses of "If You Could High to Kolob" have good imagery 4. Ascending verses - rising, increasing, whatever you want to call it. (Verses that build on each other, as well as inspire to greater obedience, nobility, virtue, whatever.) While you could claim all or many hymns do this, some do it better than others. "Nearer My God to Thee" is the best example I can think of off the top of my head. (This one ticks pretty much all the boxes.) "Come Come, Ye Saints" fits, too "The Spirit of God" "O My Father" 5. I have to assume that to some degree, familiarity and "what I've liked since before conscious memory" plays a part, since I like some hymns that don't fit well into the above, and these seem to be the "old favorites" - things that I would have heard over and over, even before I was born (i.e. in the womb) because our congregations sing them so often. And I suppose we could stuff the actual tune into here - but I don't think there's any hymn I like only for the music, without the lyrics mattering... "Praise to the Man" probably fits here, with bits of #4 and #1's restoration aspect tossed in. Perhaps I should add a "Joseph Smith" category - I have a particularly strong testimony of him (but that doesn't overcome the syrup of "Joseph Smith's First Prayer"). (And it's entirely possible that it's the pipes and drums and my Scottish ancestry that push this hymn into my favorites.) For the record, "'Tis Sweet to Sing the Matchless Love" should only be sung to the music found in hymn #177. #176 (not worthy of being linked) is all wrong!! 6. OK, "If You Could High to Kolob" makes me think maybe I need a new category, one related to doctrinal curiosity or pondering, or something. I do like a hymn that makes me think or perceive in a way different from my usual. Sorry if my novella bored you. I enjoyed thinking about all the reasons I like hymns and hope your own pondering of what you like, and why, was beneficial for you. I've enjoyed reading your perceptions, and hope more folks choose to respond!