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This made me think of this: Alma 7:12 ...he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities. 13 Now the Spirit knoweth all things... There's a difference between knowledge we are taught and knowledge we acquire by experience. I don't know what exactly the Savior experienced in the Garden of Gethsemane but it was sufficient for Him to relate to everything we experience in life and that was important to Him.

Thank you, that's cleared alot up for me.

An eternity in Eden would have consisted of Adam and Eve. No children. (Per 2 Nephi 2, which I already quoted.) So no matter how you slice it - just the two of them, or all of us eternally terrestrial, the plan would have been stuck in a "terminal loop" (so to speak).

Note the use of "they" in v23. It's not just that Adam could have stayed alone in Eden. It's teaching that even if they'd both stayed in Eden, in a state of innocence, they'd have had no joy. The fall into mortality had to happen, and whether that happened by sin or some other way1, once you get a few billion people on the planet, it's 100% certain someone's gonna sin, and once one person's done it, others are gonna wanna try it, so we're gonna need a Savior. 1I'm not saying there is another way. I'm also not saying there isn't. I'm just pointing out that the Savior was guaranteed to be needed sooner or later.

I think I see where you are leading. An eternity in Eden would mean exaltation would not be possible, frustrating the plan.

This isn't what I asked. Adam and Eve were there and presumably could have stayed eternally. The rest of us were not there. Do you think the rest of us could have been there? Do you think Adam and Eve could have birthed the human family in Eden? Do you think they could have raised their children there and we all could have lived happily ever after as immortal terrestrial beings in Eden?

And is it saying that it is God who exercised faith to frame the worlds or was it the faith in God as exercised by everything else that framed the worlds?

The wording of this portion suggests it's based on Hebrews 11:3 (I'll bet it's even linked - I'll go look)... Yes. Here's the relevant bit of Lectures... But look at the wording in Hebrews. Is it saying: "[We understand through faith] that the worlds were framed by the word of God"? Or is it saying: "We understand that [through faith the worlds were framed by the word of God]"? That is, is it our understanding that happens through faith (a few Bible translations take pains to phrase it so this is the only interpretation), or was it the framing of worlds that happened through faith? (And it could be both!) Is #15 the explanation, given by revelation, or is #15 a conclusion from a misunderstanding of the verse in question? Regardless, the idea is that faith is both [belief in the unknown sufficient to drive action toward making the unknown known by experience] and [acting in the certain belief that what you know will produce the intended result]. The first is designed to gain knowledge based on hope. The second is designed to produce results based on knowledge. Our faith teaches us of God (sure, it may do stuff, but it really brings us knowledge, as described in Alma's analogy). God's faith produces results - it makes things, it saves people, it carries out plans. That the end is known (assumed, without doubt?) doesn't alter that it's faith in the surety of the end that produces the action... Or something like that.

It makes me wonder. The light of the gospel is not shelf stable. It must be continually fed otherwise it is lost. Is that an eternal principle or a result of the fallen existence we find ourselves in? If eternal, is faith required in the eternities to maintain exaltation?

It is not by faith alone but rather by faith in Jesus Christ that we hold to the iron rod to obtain the Tree of Life. In essence, it is by faith that we obtain knowledge. Jesus explained it this way – John 8:31-32 The Traveler

You cannot be saved without knowing you're being saved. You cannot be saved until you have learned all that you need to know as a participant in that process. The mysteries of God are nothing more or less than knowledge. Those who inherit the celestial kingdom will eventually gain all the knowledge which God now has. Man cannot be saved in ignorance. That said, I believe, in large part because of Lectures on Faith, that there are two kinds of faith, only one of which is made "dormant" by knowledge.

Yes I know Pope Francis is dead (and peace be upon him) but something else happened this past weekend which is causing much more of a splash: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/19/europe/uk-supreme-court-biological-woman-intl/index.html The Supreme Court has ruled that as far as the Equality Act 2010 goes, gender is defined by what a person was born as, not how they choose to identify. Right now Starmer-schmarmer is keeping a very low profile, but from here on he can't use the Equality Act to justify allowing trans-women into female-only spaces, or allowing trans-women to beat the socks off actual women in women's sports. I'm seeing my "child" this coming Thursday and I'm taking her (them) back up to college Friday. I may be worrying unnecessarily (she knows I'm a disgraceful reactionary Neanderthal) but I'm a bit uneasy about what to say if she brings it up. And to be honest, I think this may be a false dawn for "real gender" anyway. If I understand correctly, all the government needs to do is to get a new law passed to replace the 2010 act, making it explicit that "woman" includes trans-women, and the Law Lords' ruling becomes completely moot.

I think the two scriptures are compatible in that knowledge opposes ignorance. We are saved in Christ, not ignorance.

Indeed... I am a big fan of truth, but there is so much we do not have right now. As far as I am concerned Plural Marriage in the Celestial Kingdom is "Tomorrow's" problem which in truth I am not seeing as problem either way for me personally. However right here, now, "Today's" problem is in truth is I that need the reassurance that I have just as good a chance as anyone else. This does not have to be true... But right now I need to believe it to be true. If once everything is done, if then, I find out it wasn't true it will no longer matter

Are you sure that this verse in Job, and the accompanying story bits, aren't just a metaphorical way of presenting the idea that Satan's bounds are set by the Lord?

I hate yard work. But I've found that it's a little better if, while going as fast as the riding mower will go, you make vrooming noises.

Sounds most unpleasant to me. Sorry you didn't have a better day. Assuming I'm not in the "fast lane", if someone does this to me, I put on my emergency flashers (where the "turn signal" on both sides blink at once) and let off the gas a bit. That usually works for tailgaters and folks who think I'm going too slow - no one wants to be behind someone whose car is about to break down. (Don't tell @mirkwood, but anyone who thinks I'm going too slow is likely being reckless.)