Latter-Day Marriage

How much you can forgive somebody tells how much you love them.

You beat me to it. The real question that should be asked here is: Is she still the same kind of person who would do those kinds of things?. If she had repented and had that mighty change of heart then she desires righteousness and finds her past actions abhorrent. It would be wrong to hold her past against her after she has overcome it. He is not marrying who she was, he is marrying who she is right now. Now her past may result in some consequences in her life that he would have to accept (for example, those children) but if he loves her enough to take on those challenges then more power to him.

You are making this WAY more complicated and harder than it needs to be. There is no church standard about which spouse should or shouldn't be an RM. If a couple is right for each other, they are right for each other and shouldn't feel like their status of having served or not served a mission changes who they can or should marry. Drop that idea. What president Kimball said was right for his day, but that is not how things are now. Missionary aged priesthood holders are encouraged to serve a mission but it is no longer an obligation. For women it has never been an obligation, it is something they need to personally decide about with God's guidance. In general young women were encouraged to not put off marriage for a mission but there are exceptions, and with the reduction in age for sister missionaries that doesn't really apply in most cases anyway. If she feels God wants her to serve a mission, give her your full support and encourage her to do what God wants. It doesn't mean you have to break up with her though. She can still be your girlfriend as she serves a mission if you are willing to wait faithfully for her (however she defines that) and if she would like you to do that. Just have clear boundaries about what it means to faithfully wait for her. If waiting for her is something you are not willing to do, then you can have a 'hard break' in the relationship and just be friends for now and perhaps check in with each other after her mission, or if she is ok with it have a 'soft break' where you go on casual dates with other girls looking if there is somebody else you would rather be with, but you don't get romantic with them unless you deiced to make a it a hard break with your missionary. I recommend you don't try and push her one way or the other, she has to make her choice and if you can honest give her your full support whatever she chooses it makes it easier for her to do the right thing.

There are a number of steps in the repentance process, and missing some of them will work against your getting to that point of feeling reborn. The first two steps are to recognize you have sinned, and to feel the appropriate level of regret over it. It sounds like you have done that. The next step is to make a full confession of your wrongdoing to God, and also to anybody you have harmed by your sin and ask their forgiveness. Have you gone to God in prayer and confessed your sin to him and asked for his forgiveness? If not please do so, and keep doing so until you receive it. Yes, he already knows what you did, but you need sot do this for yourself. If at some point in the future you meet somebody and the two of you want to get married, you need to confess what you did to them and ask their forgiveness. Yes, that is scary, but the flip side of repentance is forgiveness. We beloved that we are obligated to forgive others, and somebody who won't forgive is guilty of a greater sin than what they are being asked forgiveness for. If somebody would rather leave you than forgive you, then not marrying them is probably a good thing. You also need to stop doing the sin, and also make restitution for it. When you steal something, you have to give it back to repent. Some things can't be undone like that, but you can make up for it in other ways like helping other people not make the same mistake for example. Lastly you need to commit yourself to never doing it again. There is a bigger picture here too. Repentance is one step of our journey back to God. The first step is to have faith in Christ, faith that he can save you from your sins. Then comes repentance. After that comes baptism by those with authority from God to do so. That will wash the stain of your sins away, then comes receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost. When the Holy Ghost comes to you, that is when you are reborn spiritually and walk in a newness of life. We believe that the authority from God to baptize rests with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and in no other church. I would encourage you to meet with our missionaries and investigate the possibility of becoming a baptized member of the Church. I have no doubt if you do so you will find the peace you are looking for.

You have the right to set some boundaries, like he has to be respectful, he has to be accurate (no misrepresenting our faith's teachings), he has to be intellectually honest etc. If he doesn't do that, then you just call him on it and refuse to discuss religion with him until he shapes up. If he is not open to learning what we believe and why we believe it to truely understand us, then there is no point. If he is on some kind of self righteous ego trip don't play along. Also, be clear on your own objective. Don't try and get him to believe what you believe, just make sure he has an accurate understanding of what we believe, and why we believe it (if he is willing to listen). Then leave him free to choose his own path. It really all just comes down to who you choose to listen to In terms of dealing with specific accusations, I find FAIR to be a superb resource https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Main_Page If he is honest at heart, and you can show him where he is being mislead and deceived about us, you can ask him why continue to listen to people who are misleading you?

Of course they know that, but people drink alcohol all the time without doing something that ruins their life, and people tend to think it won't happen to them. They feel 'safe' going to a bar and only expect a good time and hangover. Doesn't let them off the hook, but I see that as a different situation than somebody who has full possession of their faculties and does the same thing. It is somebody giving in to weakness as opposed to premeditated rebellion. Like the difference between manslaughter and murder.

But driving drunk does carry harsh penalties, even if you haven't caused an accident. In a case like this, I don't see being drunk as exculpatory, but I do see it as moving the act toward being unintentional. Like manslaughter instead of murder. There is a dead person in both cases, but the intentions of the responsible parties are not the same.

Don't be too surprised if he thinks temple marriages are consummated on the alter right in front of the families.

Where did I attack them? I just pointed out another area where Catholic and Mormon beliefs about Mary differ. You attacked me as spreading falsehoods, but the Catechism of the Catholic Church and St. Augustine kind of carry some weight here. And why would the Catechism say "Mary’s real and perpetual virginity even in the act of giving birth" if they weren't trying to make the point that the birth made no change in her body. The Catholic Catechism of the Council of Trent: says: "just as He afterwards went forth from the sepulchre while it was closed and sealed, and entered the room in which His disciples were assembled, the doors being shut; or not to depart from every-day examples, just as the rays of the sun penetrate without breaking or injuring in the least the solid substance of glass, so after a like but more exalted manner did Jesus Christ come forth from His mother’s womb without injury to her maternal virginity."

A lot of them are not so dogmatic that they can accept the distinction between being an orthodox and non-orthodox Christian. For those that are that dogmatic, you can at least leave them knowing they are disagreeing with the dictionary.

What I said was accurate. https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/the-nativity-story-movie-problematic-for-catholics-unsuitable-for-young-chi

Tough, words have meaning and that is what those words mean. Pick up any dictionary, look up the word Christian, and you won't find anything about having to accept the Trinity or any of the creeds as doctrinal.

A common anti-mormon accusation is that we believe God literally had sex with Mary, so she wasn't a virgin. And according to Catholics Mary never had any other children, and never had sex with Joseph. She was virgin all her life. It doesn't matter that the Bible says otherwise. An actual Catholic doctrine that not many know about is that May still had her hymen intact after giving birth.

No, he is not right. Being Christian only requires accepting that Christ is the Son of God, Savior and Messiah. Being an orthodox Christian is what requires accepting the creeds written hundreds of years after Christ that push ideas like the trinity etc. (ie: the current Christian orthodoxy). Mormons are Christians and I wouldn't budge one inch away from that claim, but we are quite happy to claim we are not orthodox Christians. Orthodoxy has nothing to do with if you are right or not, it's only defined by numbers.

I doubt at the time he made the choice to drink that he had any kind of expectation that it would result in this. All he expected was the same thing he got from all the other times he went drinking, and he felt safe handicapping his rationality and lowering his inhibitions chemically. He didn't set out at the start of the night to cheat on his wife. It was a case of an opportunity plus a moment of weakness plus a bad decision. To me that makes it different from somebody who had full command of their mental faculties making a deliberate choice to do the same thing. That is rebellion, not weakness and/or foolishness. In both cases the person has sinned and has to repent, and the one who was drunk has to also repent of breaking the WoW.

A one time drunken mistake instantly regretted and willingly repented of should not be treated the same as somebody who deliberately and knowingly cheats on his wife repeatedly with no regret. How many times did Israel betray God and go after false gods, yet He did not cast them aside forever.

DO NOT GET PREGNANT. Not until the marriage is solid. Kids deserve parents who are committed to each other.

So sorry you are going through this. It is a very good sign however that he willingly confessed to you without having to get caught first, and that he wants to make things right. To answer your questions: 1) Don't know. If he has received his endowment in the temple than this is a far more serious matter than if he didn't. I think it is fair to expect that there will be a disciplinary counsel over this, where the issue will be examined. That may result in excommunication, or something other than that. They will follow the spirit. Excommunication is not the end. The purpose of excommunication is to give a person a chance to start over fresh, to help them. They can still come to church, although they won't have callings and won't be called on to give prayers etc. They can get the missionary discussions and under the guidance of your Bishop eventually be re-baptized and have any temple covenants restored. Typically the only people who will even know a member has been excommunicated are those church leaders who need to know (with the obligation to not share the info) and anybody you tell. I've sat in sacrament and heard the announcement of somebody's upcoming re-baptism never knowing they were excommunicated in the first place. You don't have have the re-baptism announced even if you don't want that. I know a lady in my ward who had an affair. Her husband wasn't so great, I suspect he was emotionally and verbally abusive to her but that doesn't excuse what she did. They split up, he moved to another city and she was excommunicated but worked her way back and now has a calling in Primary. While she went through a lot, she is stronger in the gospel and happier now then ever before. Do the right thing and trust in God to make it work out in time. 2) First talk to your Bishop, he may be able to arrange marriage counseling and perhaps even authorize fast offerings to be used to pay for it in some cases. At the very least he can likely recommend you to a counselor who shares LDS values. 3) What happens now is that he works on repairing his relationship with God (repentance) and the two of you together work on repairing your relationship with each other. Just as he has to go through a repentance process, you need to go through a forgiveness process (and it is a process). If you both play your cards right, you can come out of this together with a marriage that is stronger than it was before because you will both be better people than you were before. The power of the atonement is not just for cleansing sin but also for healing the hurts caused by the sins of others. I have a 4 part series of posts on my blogs about overcoming big hurts like this that I think you both may find helpful. Part 1 (Where to Start) is at http://latterday-marriage.blogspot.com/2017/09/healing-wounds-part-1-where-to-start.html and each part has links to the next. I hope it help.

Because why the marriage/sealing ended and what has been done about it since needs to be taken into consideration before being allowed to make that covenant with God again. For example, if somebody cheated on their wife and that is why the divorce/cancellation, then it is fair to ask what is different this time that gives confidence he won't violate his covenants all over again.

He needs to talk with the Bishop, and if he won't you go and tell him about it. Bishops have a hotline they can call for legal advise on things like this. In many places a Bishop has to alert the authorities when they are informed about something like this or the Bishop himself could go to jail for not reporting it. That doesn't apply to you. If your husband is willing to move out I expect they wouldn't take her away from you. As for kicking him out, yes, now. He needs to separate himself from the temptation to do it again, and your child needs a safe home. Let him know that you are not breaking up (at this point) but you need him to move out and not move back in until he has overcome this problem and has re-earned your trust. He needs therapy from a trained professional and spiritual counseling from his Bishop. This is not a normal kind of reaction. I think there is a good chance that he has been getting into porn and that has lead him to this. Linking inflicting pain with feelings of pleasure is a VERY dangerous place to go.

Hi Coco Risu, so sorry you are going through this. Because of the atonement, it is possible for you and your husband to move from where you are now to a place where you have a full reconciliation of your relationship with each other where things are as good as they ever were, or even better. That can only happen however where there is full repentance on his part and full forgiveness on your part. Even if he doesn't repent however, you can sill fully forgive him and receive the blessings of the atonement from that. Forgiving him doesn't mean you give him a pass, it doesn't mean you'll never struggle with hurt feelings, and it doesn't even mean you have to stay with him. It means you let go of any anger or vindictiveness toward him over it. You feel sadness over his fall from grace rather than spite. That will let you be happier, and it gives him an environment where it is easier for him to repent. I think you both might benefit from a series of posts on my blog, here is part 1 http://latterday-marriage.blogspot.com/2017/09/healing-wounds-part-1-where-to-start.html

Hi Squoogie, When a couple decides together to have a kissing fast like that with both of them fully agreeing to it, that is very different then when one person forces it on the other or pushes them into it when really they don't want to and don't see any reason for it. Think of it from his perspective. Guys generally have their feelings if being loved strongly linked with physical displays of affection, kissing, holding hands, hugs etc. Your asking for this fast is very likely making him wonder if your feelings for him have changed, or if your feelings for him were never as deep as he thought they were. This is something he would see as being pushed toward the friend zone so he feel rejected to a degree and reacts based on emotions of hurt and fear. He likely was really looking forward to being able to kiss you more often since you would be closer, and it likely came as a shock that you want to take that away from him. That does not mean he is entitled to your kisses, he is not, I'm just trying to explain what is likely going on inside his head. You have a perfectly valid point that kissing is something that gets a young person's hormones working overtime, and that can cloud a their judgement. IMHO a couple should not start kissing until the relationship if very serious and there is a level of mutual commitment and exclusivity. I don't think a kissing fast is inherently a bad idea if you feel you may have been going too fast, but how you go about starting one can be damaging to a relationship if not done right. If you really want to do this, you need to do the work to communicate to him your concerns, and why you think this is something that will help your relationship in the long run, not something you are doing to try and weaken it. Also, listen to what he has to say. Perhaps together the two of you can come up with a different way to address your concerns that is more agreeable. If you impose this on him when he is unwilling or only grudgingly puts up with it being forced on him it will be harmful to your relationship. If you can talk out your concerns, clarify what each of you need from the other to feel loved and accepted, and from that either get him to fully buy into the fast idea so there will be no hurt or resentment on his part, or find another way to address your concerns, then it can be something that makes your relationship stronger. Plus working something like that out together is great practice for marriage. Sadly a LOT of marriages go bad because one spouse in effect imposes a 'sex fast' on the other spouse without their consent. Lastly, I wouldn't be too hard on him for getting upset over this and the previous thing as well. It shows he has strong feelings for you. As long as his being upset didn't lead him to say or do anything abusive, take it as a kind of compliment that he cares so much about you.

Oh great. You gave away The Secret, now it will be all over the internet and everybody will know. :)

The situation you are in does not excuse his behavior. Stop putting so much blame on yourself and making excuses for him. Walking away from this is not going to help either one of you because at the root of the problem is what is in your hearts and giving up won't change that. Get yourselves to counseling and work this out. This marriage can be saved, and you can be happy together, but you both need to do your part. Right now your part is to let him know you are very unhappy and want the both of you to go to marriage counseling to make things better. If he won't go, go alone. If you can't afford it, talk to your bishop about that.