Words of Wisdom?

[gaspah]

OK for the last time on this board I will say Being overweight is NOT against the word of wisdom

i was only stating obesity as a symptom, not as being against the WoW. Just like if I said having lung cancer is a health issue, would you assume having cancer is against the Word of Wisdom? I realise it is the act not the consequence that is against it, and I didn't state that I thought that obesity was against the Word of Wisdom, only that it was a major health issue.

and as to adhering to the WoW by not eating meat frequently, I'm not a regular meat consumer, but I can't resist a barbecue gathering. I very rarely eat meat at home, sometimes I go weeks without any meat, though the norm for me is once or twice a week (this has been from long before I heard the WoW).

Thanks for the encouragement also :) I should probably sleep now.

oh, i probably should have said i had a piece of chicken, a rissole and a sausage, rather than pluralize it... i didn't eat a whole cow or anything (but i consider that a lot of meat in one sitting)

Edited January 10, 2009 by gaspah

[jax]

i dont eat any meat coz i live the wow

[jax]

anyway how can i tell if it from a tea bush?

[gabelpa]

jax, this is an internet board, not a txt msg svc wot r u thinkin?

The first sign that an herbal tea is OK is the packaging. It will say "Naturally caffeine free".

Anything containing the plant "Camellia sinensis" is a tea we are not allowed to drink. Black, Oolong, Green and White tea we can't drink, as well as anything that starts with those teas as a base and adds other flavours. Darjeeling, Assam, Ceylon, Chai and Dilgiri teas are also on the banned list as they come from the same family. There are probably more that I have missed. There is some controversy over Green Tea, as it does have proven health benefits and medicinal purposes.

I like my herbal teas, for starters the Celestial Seasonings line of herbal, "Naturally Caffeine Free" teas are a good place to start. The one called "Bengal Spice" got me started.

Edited January 10, 2009 by gabelpa
additional information

[jax]

im sorry i didnt understand a word you said with your 1st line? and i think the rest is too confuseing for me, i think for me i will not drink tea are coffee are eat meat coz its all part of the wow but i think my herbal teas are ok

[bmy-]

im sorry i didnt understand a word you said with your 1st line? and i think the rest is too confuseing for me, i think for me i will not drink tea are coffee are eat meat coz its all part of the wow but i think my herbal teas are ok

Whatever works. Sorry for my previous rude response..

If you feel like it's okay.. and you pray about it.. it -should- be sufficient. Good luck and don't let the labels intimidate you.

[aluvsd4ever]

Perhaps sparingly refers to portion size as well as frequency? The serving size for a portion of meat is 3 oz. I know most people eat WAY more than that in a single meal. So if you eat 3 oz of meat, 2-3 times per week, I would say that is sparingly and appropriate for today's society as well.

[etaks10]

I stumbled upon this thread while searching about the lds cattle ranc. I am an active lds member and also a vegetarian. While i cant speak much about the ranch or its necessity I can say that yes the scriptures teach an almost fully vegetarian lifestyle. The word of wisdom is pretty clear on this when speaking about when to eat meat. While the interpretation that those in Josephs time shouldn't eat it in the summer because the meat would go bad is clever, i don't think its true. I believe the only time to eat meat is when it becomes a necessity to survive but at no other time, here are just some quotes to support my beliefs.

[Lorenzo Snow] was convinced that the killing of animals when unnecessary was wrong and sinful, and that it was not right to neglect one part of the Word of Wisdom and be too strenuous in regard to other parts.

-History of the Church Journal

We are told that swine’s flesh is not good, and that we should dispense with it; and we are told that flesh of any kind is not suitable to man in the summer time, and ought to be eaten sparingly in the winter.

-George Q. Cannon

Naturally in times of famine the flesh of animals was perhaps a necessity, but in my judgment when the Millennium reaches us, we will live above the need of killing dumb innocent animals and eating them. If we will take this stand in my judgment we may live longer.

-Joseph Fielding Smith

You have a right to meat, according to the 49th section of the Doctrine and Covenants. The family who needs a deer to get through the winter have a right to that. The Lord will not deny them, but He is also pleased with those who forbear. They can eat meat only in times of starvation, winter, cold, famine.

-Hugh W. Nibley

[NeuroTypical]

Reposting:

D&C 89 seems clear enough: meat "should not be used, only in times of winter/cold/famine".

So, going directly to LDS.com and looking up the chapter, here's what you'll see:

Note the comma after the phrase "should not be used".

Compare that with a copy of the same section, out of an original 1835 Book of Commandments:

Note the absence of a comma after the phrase "should not be used". It seems to have changed places, and now appears right after "it is pleasing unto me". This changes the sentence structure, and changes the meaning of the sentence.

The original text reads 'They should not be used only in times of winter/cold/famine'. In other words, anyone telling you meat is only for winter/cold/famine isn't telling you what the Lord thinks.

Compare to D&C 49:18-19 "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God; For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance."

See, back in Joseph Smith's day, there was indeed a sort of 'religious diet fad' of the day, advocating limiting or eliminating meats from our diet. D&C 49 explicitly counters this idea. The original Book of Commandments Word of Wisdom section explicitly counters this idea. Somewhere, as we fallible humans added verse structure and tried to publish new editions, a comma crept in, and made it harder to understand.

[BadWolf]

My mum has a favorite quote right now:

Commas Save Lives.

Lets eat, Gramma!

Lets eat Gramma!

[etaks10]

I do think that is interesting with the comma being gone in the early version of the doctrine and covenants, however in context with other scriptures that i will point out i still think that my point of view stands. If you continue down to verses 14 and 15 in section 89 it says,

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

It seems to me that again the lord restates his point of when it is appropriate to eat meat.

Also in section 49 you point out that the lord warns against those who forbid to abstain from meats. This verse must also be taken in context. Yes, no man should forbid to abstain from meats completely, but should be eaten within the guidelines the lord has set as pointed out in the verses 14 and 15. As you read further down in verse 21 in section 49 it reads,

21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.

Need is the keyword here. When do we need meat? In times of famine and excess hunger. In the footnote 21a it references this verse.

JST Gen. 9:11 And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands.

In quick summary, We can eat meat and the lord has blessed us with that ability and resource. But, as in many of the lords commandments he has set clear guidelines for when and how we should follow them. In this case again, only when we truly need them.

[bytebear]

Which is the greater sin? Eating meat or being judgmental?

[Vort]

Which is the greater sin? Eating meat or being judgmental?

I hate those judgmental scumbags.

[etaks10]

Your right, Lds vegetarians and meat eaters need to be careful not to be judgmental. But what we are talking about here are simple gospel principles. Was Joseph being judgmental when he wrote it? How about when he asked others to be baptized in the church, or to keep the commandments? The principal of sparing the life of animals and abstaining from meat will bless the lives of the members in many ways just as all of Gods teachings. There is no more reason to try to avoid this teaching by making statements like that.

[Vort]

I think vegetarianism is a wonderful idea, but I refuse to follow it until the vegetarians show me the bacon plant.

[Dravin]

I think vegetarianism is a wonderful idea, but I refuse to follow it until the vegetarians show me the bacon plant.

You know how they have fruit salad trees? Someone managed to splice together a junk food tree:

Edited January 17, 2013 by Dravin

[NeuroTypical]

The principal of sparing the life of animals and abstaining from meat will bless the lives of the members in many ways just as all of Gods teachings.

Following correct principles when slaughtering animals and consuming meat will bless the lives of the members in many ways just as all of God's teachings.

(I think I'm saying the same thing you are...)

[mnn727]

I, as a Catholic am confused in reading this thread.

Are certain areas of the Words of Wisdom to be read more literally more than others?

Are some parts to be ignored?

Does a later D and C clarify the matter?

According to LDS doctrine/teaching-is eating meat abundantly ok?-or is sparingly only OK?-and if so-why own such a huge cattle ranch??

That would be the same as being told-do not drink alcohol-while owning a brewery.

-I am confused.

Please help end my confusion.

Thanks

-Carol

Carol

Not to be disrespectful, but do some Catholics follow the teachings of the Catholic Church better than others do?

As far as the cattle ranch it is for feeding those that need assistance, along with orange groves, vineyards, welfare farms, graineries, etc.

If you are receiving food from the Church (because you need assistance - similar to what Catholic Charities does), you will only receive approx 1 pound of meat per person per week, for the average American that is sparingly.

[pam]

Carol

Not to be disrespectful, but do some Catholics follow the teachings of the Catholic Church better than others do?

As far as the cattle ranch it is for feeding those that need assistance, along with orange groves, vineyards, welfare farms, graineries, etc.

If you are receiving food from the Church (because you need assistance - similar to what Catholic Charities does), you will only receive approx 1 pound of meat per person per week, for the average American that is sparingly.

I don't think she will see this. She hasn't been on the site in almost 4 years.

[mnn727]

sparingly meens once a month if that so if mormons are to obey the wow properly thats wot they wood do

And you have what authority to define this?

[mnn727]

I don't think she will see this. She hasn't been on the site in almost 4 years.

Another old thread opened. humph!

[M_T_E]

Another old thread opened. humph!

I used to do that on Jeep forums, except it was usually old arguments about who had a nicer Jeep and what not. Oh the fireworks.

[john doe]

I used to do that on Jeep forums, except it was usually old arguments about who had a nicer Jeep and what not. Oh the fireworks.

The correct answer is 'nice Jeep' is an oxymoron.

[Guest]

I used to call my ex BF's Land Rover a Jeep just to push his buttons.

[Hyena]

And you have what authority to define this?

I for one am glad this got reopened. I found it interesting... especially this.

So technically, LDS members are supposed to eat no more than 1 pound of meat per week? Is that BEEF meat? or all meat combined, including chickens and turkeys and fish?

Is there a definition of "meat"? Like it being only porky or beefy or goaty?