Women equality

[Newcomer4831]

I asked about women in LDS. An elder said they were in fact equal but expected to be "nurturers". Also, they can't become a minister [i don't know the rankings]. To me that doesn't sound like equality. Can someone please clarify?

Opt. I know some sects have polygamy. Can women have more than 1 husbands?

"The Buddha's cousin Ananda asked if there was any reason women could not realize enlightenment and enter Nirvana as well as men. The Buddha admitted there was no reason a woman could not be enlightened. "Women, Ananda, having gone forth are able to realize the fruit of stream-attainment or the fruit of once-returning or the fruit of non-returning or arahantship," he said."

[FunkyTown]

It's not a question of 'Ministers'. Women do give lessons in sacrament meeting. I think you're referring to 'Women can not hold the Priesthood'.

For answers to all of your questions, please use the search function as both of those questions have been answered ad nauseum.

[Gwen]

contrary to popular belief "equal" and "same" are not synonyms. once one understands that then the rest is easier to grasp.

[Traveler]

I asked about women in LDS. An elder said they were in fact equal but expected to be "nurturers". Also, they can't become a minister [i don't know the rankings]. To me that doesn't sound like equality. Can someone please clarify?

Opt. I know some sects have polygamy. Can women have more than 1 husbands?

"The Buddha's cousin Ananda asked if there was any reason women could not realize enlightenment and enter Nirvana as well as men. The Buddha admitted there was no reason a woman could not be enlightened. "Women, Ananda, having gone forth are able to realize the fruit of stream-attainment or the fruit of once-returning or the fruit of non-returning or arahantship," he said."

As a mathematician and scientist I understand the concept of equal in a different manner than most. In mathematics equal means interchangeable. The truth is that men and women are different and cannot be interchanged without bringing about different results in some circumstances. This is a true fact that is and cannot be changed and therefore with scientific analysis men and women are not equal and can never become equal – it is foolish and very unscientific to think of equality of men and women in scientific or literal terms.

With that said there is a most important notion. That is; that in marriage the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and in a marriage before G-d a man and a woman are equal partners. Those that covenant with G-d to uphold the covenant of marriage are made equal in a divine and spiritual sense. Please understand that to covenant with G-d to uphold the covenant of marriage does not mean that a person must be married. But they must uphold the covenant of marriage as G-d has defined marriage and not as some have tried to alter sacred things and debase it to a matter of passion, desire and self indulgence which will make man and woman much less than equal.

The Traveler

[Churchmouse]

I asked about women in LDS. An elder said they were in fact equal but expected to be "nurturers". Also, they can't become a minister [i don't know the rankings]. To me that doesn't sound like equality. Can someone please clarify?

Opt. I know some sects have polygamy. Can women have more than 1 husbands?

"The Buddha's cousin Ananda asked if there was any reason women could not realize enlightenment and enter Nirvana as well as men. The Buddha admitted there was no reason a woman could not be enlightened. "Women, Ananda, having gone forth are able to realize the fruit of stream-attainment or the fruit of once-returning or the fruit of non-returning or arahantship," he said."

There are no "sects" in the Church. Any "group" that practies polygamy are not Mormons, regardless of what terms the media uses. A man cannot enter the highest kingdom of glory without his wife. Sounds of equal importance to me. One leader put it: Man received the Priesthood because women had received Motherhood.

[Newcomer4831]

As a mathematician and scientist I understand the concept of equal in a different manner than most. In mathematics equal means interchangeable. The truth is that men and women are different and cannot be interchanged without bringing about different results in some circumstances. This is a true fact that is and cannot be changed and therefore with scientific analysis men and women are not equal and can never become equal – it is foolish and very unscientific to think of equality of men and women in scientific or literal terms.

With that said there is a most important notion. That is; that in marriage the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and in a marriage before G-d a man and a woman are equal partners. Those that covenant with G-d to uphold the covenant of marriage are made equal in a divine and spiritual sense. Please understand that to covenant with G-d to uphold the covenant of marriage does not mean that a person must be married. But they must uphold the covenant of marriage as G-d has defined marriage and not as some have tried to alter sacred things and debase it to a matter of passion, desire and self indulgence which will make man and woman much less than equal.

The Traveler

I understand this fully, even in Buddhism there is a separation. We see the aunt of the Buddha ask if she can join the Order, however the Buddha said no and that the his aunt start a new Order with her own teachings. From here we get equality, that men and women can achieve Enlightenment/Moksha.

If you investigate other religions you will see a similar claim. Islam claims to be the first promoter of equality of women, same with Hinduism, claiming that a man must work while a wife must be a partner, though struggle a bit. They also claim that women were designed to be "fairer" and "weaker" so they must be subordinate to men, however men must work hard for the women creating equality. But we see that their claim is hypocritical.

[Madriglace]

LDS sisters do not hold the Priesthood but then ... being one ... who would want to? We have enough to do. The LDS church has the largest and oldest women's organization in the world. Our leaders and teachers are women. The Relief Society (the women's organization under the direction of the Priesthood) is a driving force within the church. Within our congregation where I live our focus is the humanitarian effort within the church. We believe that we as women are born with our priesthood and exercise it by being good mothers and teachers. Those unable to biologically be mothers can be mothers in other ways such as working with the children in primary or the the youth.

The woman and the man are 2 halves of the whole ... kind of like peanut butter and jelly ... they are fine on their own but are fabulous together.

[talisyn]

I think the past eons of society have really done a disservice to women. God Himself said women are to be co-creators with Him in bringing forth children. How can it get much cooler than that? One of the tools of the adversary is to take something good and make it bad or insignificant. The debate of priesthood vs. women's rights is merely a way of pitting two good things unnaturally against each other.

[rameumptom]

Women can hold positions of authority in the Church. We have women who preside over several functions in each congregation, including Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary. We have women who also perform similar functions on the Church level, who speak in our General Conferences, and travel the world training local leaders.

[Newcomer4831]

I enjoy the PBJ analogy. I have another question, when the elder said that women are "nurturers", is that a fair statement on how Mormonism/Christianity views women? [i've considered what you guys said about women positions in the Church]

[Connie]

This may be helpful to you: LDS.org - Young Women Chapter Detail - Family

It is the Family Proclamation put out by the first presidency in 1995.

[bytebear]

I always found it interesting that a church leader at any level from Bishop upward must be married and must have a rightious wife. I think priesthood leadership may be conducted by the men, but it is not a burden the man carries alone. He must have a wife willing to accept the burden as well. Similarly, a husband can never carry the burden of pregnancy, but he is still an equal partner in the process.

Edited March 25, 2009 by bytebear

[havejoy]

Women who strive to be equal to men lack ambition.

[Moksha]

From here we get equality, that men and women can achieve Enlightenment/Moksha.

Probably better off seeking Enlightenment.

[JohnnyRudick]

I always found it interesting that a church leader at any level from Bishop upward must be married and must have a rightious wife. I think priesthood leadership may be conducted by the men, but it is not a burden the man carries alone. He must have a wife willing to accept the burden as well. Similarly, a husband can never carry the burden of pregnancy, but he is still an equal partner in the process.

1 Corinthians 11:8 For the man is not of the woman: but the

woman of the man.

1 Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman;

but the woman for the man.

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have

power on her head because of the angels.

1 Corinthians 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the

woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

Many call the woman the "completer".

This is not the derogatory thing that many try to put on it.

IE "You complete me."

It only means that It was God the Father who brought the woman and presented her to the man.

Marriage is a holy sacrament that must echo the very first one.

Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from

man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and

flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was

taken out of Man.

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his

mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one

flesh.

Just as Paul said

1 Corinthians 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the

woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

It must be a man and a woman and it must be "in the Lord" and they complete and compliment each other even though they are different in many respects.

Bro. Rudick

[pam]

Women who strive to be equal to men lack ambition.

Doesn't that go along with..Women don't want to get even...they want to get ahead.

[prospectmom]

Pam you are spunky tonight??? :}

THANK YOU..............

[bert10]

Enlightenment has nothing to do with the priesthood. The bible makes it clear that there are both prophets and prophetesses.

However, there is a difference in men and woman that no one can deny. They are both Love equally before God.

Since the Fall God has set an order...that many Christians churches have forsaken in order to please those who pay their salaries.

Here are the verses. In these verses below is the order and why the order exist and lastly Isaiah has prophesied concerning our state. I do not say that God had ordained this order forever.

1. Genesis 3:16 - Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1 Corinthians 11:3 - But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Why?

1 Timothy 2:12 - But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Timothy 2:13 - For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

1 Timothy 2:14 - And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Any churches that disregard the Order that God has set from the very beginning and make Woman the head of man is of the Devil. It is a church of the devil.

And God said thru Isaiah concerning our day....Children are spoiled brats and woman rule over men.

Isaiah 3:12 - As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

My people, They which have led thee have caused thee to err and destry the way of thy paths.

That is all I have to say on this for now.

As for polygamy....the Spiritual line comes by the male Spirit. It is not possible for a woman to have more than one husband. However, God could allow it on the earth.

And in a true ordained polygamous relationship where children are required...it is the first wife that holds the power of when and with whom shall her husband be with.

In other types of Polygamous relationships that God can allow...the man is only intimate with the first wife. However, this is not the whole teaching on this. God shall reveal it to each individual who shall asked in faith.

Peace be unto you

bert10

I asked about women in LDS. An elder said they were in fact equal but expected to be "nurturers". Also, they can't become a minister [i don't know the rankings]. To me that doesn't sound like equality. Can someone please clarify?

Opt. I know some sects have polygamy. Can women have more than 1 husbands?

"The Buddha's cousin Ananda asked if there was any reason women could not realize enlightenment and enter Nirvana as well as men. The Buddha admitted there was no reason a woman could not be enlightened. "Women, Ananda, having gone forth are able to realize the fruit of stream-attainment or the fruit of once-returning or the fruit of non-returning or arahantship," he said."

[rameumptom]

Bert10,

That's a little harsh concerning women, isn't it? And those scriptures do not always apply, especially as you are using them. God called Deborah as prophetess and Judge over Israel. Do you think that she oppressed the people, or was out of line? I don't.

Today, we have a new guideline to follow: the Proclamation of the Family. Many of the quotes you used are based upon the customs and traditions of the ancient Jews; many of which no longer apply.

[havejoy]

1 Timothy 2:13 - For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

But don't all architects and engineers make a rough draft first and then the perfect version later?

[JohnnyRudick]

Bert10,

That's a little harsh concerning women, isn't it? And those scriptures do not always apply, especially as you are using them. God called Deborah as prophetess and Judge over Israel. Do you think that she oppressed the people, or was out of line? I don't.

Today, we have a new guideline to follow: the Proclamation of the Family. Many of the quotes you used are based upon the customs and traditions of the ancient Jews; many of which no longer apply.

Right, We have to understand the state of the people of Isreal at that time.

There was not a man in Israel.

Could happen again maybe?

It has happened in places where a woman has has to do the job where the existing men were more "women" then the women:eek:

Bro. Rudick

[Just_A_Guy]

And in a true ordained polygamous relationship where children are required...it is the first wife that holds the power of when and with whom shall her husband be with.

Wait . . . what?

[foreverafter]

1 Timothy 2:13 - For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

But don't all architects and engineers make a rough draft first and then the perfect version later?

The Prophets have said that Women are God's Supreme Creation.

After Eve had courageously partaken of the fruit & was willing to suffer for her & her children to progress & Adam was willing to follow her, God then assured her that Adam would rule over her. But he did not mean "rule" as we think of the word. God was grateful to Eve for what she had done & now assured Eve that Adam would watch over & protect her, serve her, support her & provide her with all she needs & wants, so she can focus on & accomplish her great calling of Motherhood. It was never a negative thing to Eve but an assurance of protection & care. I believe Adam understood the equal partnership of marriage, that most all the world lost until again in our day today, that the Head of the Home & the Heart of the Home are equal & must work together, with each having equal voice & veto power in all matters. Neither one is above the other, but must actually put the wishes of the other 1st over their own. And if either is to submit 1st it is the man submitting his life & will to love & serve his wife desires, so she can trust him & feel safe in doing the same for him.

It is also true that the woman is the one who decides if & when & with whom her husband practices polgamy, if ever. For usually only she knows if he is worthy of it & is keeping his vows to love & serve her. Only men with True Love for their wife & who would rather die than hurt their wife with something like polygamy, would ever be worthy to live it if need be & authorized by God & would thus hand the whole thing over to her to make it as painless as possible. Never would he go out & chase, choose or look for other women & hurt his wife that he is to love & protect with his life. That does not even pass the most basic of eternal laws - the Golden Rule. He would never want her to do that to him.

Edited March 26, 2009 by foreverafter

[bert10]

Rameumptom...that is not my opinion but the teachings which I have received.

I did not say that God cannot call woman as prophetess. I know full well that Miriam the sister of Moses was a prophetess. However, she had nothing to do with the Church and certainly did not counsel Moses. It is a condemnation on men if God is required to call a woman and put her in a position of authority.

As for Deborah and judges, they were all prophets, And it is not they that Judges anyone or even Israel...but the Spirit of God which is given to them. And this was once the wish of Moses that ALL MEN and WOMEN would be prophets and prophetesses unto themselves.

Numbers 11:29 - And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

Enough on Deborah and Mirriam they were never ruler of men....However, to have the TRUE TESTIMONY OF CHRIST IS ONLY BY THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.

Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The NEW AND EVERLASTING COVENANT OF GOD is to walk in the LIGHT AS HE IS IN THE LIGHT.

Again remember...even though Jesus was born to Mary...It was Joseph the head of the family who received the dream to flee unto Egypt not Mary.

Oness does not mean that there is no more head. It means acquiring the mind of Christ and each person shall fulfill perfectly their intended purposes. Worthy men normally shall receive revelations for the Family in Education, safety, housing and food. Women normally shall receive revelations on the state of the Family and how to coordinate all things that is required to make a family work.

Each the man and the woman have their own sphere of authority and their bounds. Normally it is not well when one decides thread on the bounds of authority of their spouse.

Who shall have the honor of being called in heaven the daughter of Sarah?

Whom she called her husband...My Lord.

And Again I remind you the prophecy of God thru Isaiah for our day....

Isaiah 3:12 - As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Psalms 95:10 - Forty years long was I grieved with [this] generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:

I tell you the truth...the divorce rate shall not go down until LDS live the ways of the Lord. The marriages who fail to honor the Order that God has set shall never have a fullness of love, joy and happiness.

Peace be unto you

bert10

Bert10,

That's a little harsh concerning women, isn't it? And those scriptures do not always apply, especially as you are using them. God called Deborah as prophetess and Judge over Israel. Do you think that she oppressed the people, or was out of line? I don't.

Today, we have a new guideline to follow: the Proclamation of the Family. Many of the quotes you used are based upon the customs and traditions of the ancient Jews; many of which no longer apply.

Edited March 26, 2009 by bert10

[bert10]

Until the ages of the kings in Israel all the tribes were ruled by their head and the princes.

There was never a time when a woman ruled in Israel since all the tribes were always ruled by the males. Also there was never a time in Israel were a queen was made over the people. I did not say that a woman could not lead. Leading and ruling are two different things.

The words of Isiah are a prophecy of God ...in fact what God shall see...

Isaiah 3:12 - As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Psalms 95:10 - Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:

Nothing will lower the LDS divorce rate unless both men and woman begin to honor the Order that GOD set in the beginning of the fall and cease to call old fashion the ways of God or say that this law no longer apply to us.

Peace be unto you

bert10

Right, We have to understand the state of the people of Isreal at that time.

There was not a man in Israel.

Could happen again maybe?

It has happened in places where a woman has has to do the job where the existing men were more "women" then the women:eek:

Bro. Rudick

Edited March 26, 2009 by bert10