Marriage failing/failed

[Semperrideo]

I searched and read through most of the posts on infidelity here. Since nothing is quite comparable to my situation I'm starting a new thread.

I am feeling lonely and lost. On monday my wife of 7 years sealed in the temple left our family (5yo son and 2mo baby daughter) saying she was gone forever. She did this even as my son was crying screaming and begging her not to go. She came back later that night and has stayed. The fighting that led up to it hasn't stopped. Last night though she punched me in the jaw hard enough that it's difficult to open my mouth all the way.

Obviously it takes two to tango. I'm far from the ideal husband. Here's the part about infidelity. For about four weeks now I've been having an emotional affair with a woman from work. She says everything I have wanted to hear from my wife for about 7 years. I know it's wrong, and she really has very little to offer. But what she does give me is what I've craved for a very long time, and which my wife has openly said she is unwilling and even unable to give.

So, I'm trying to figure out if my wife is destructive enough to warrant ending it. She has been asking for divorce on and off for about 6 years. I've been trying to keep it together for the kids. And yes, I know it was cruel and wrong to bring another child into this, but that can't be helped now.

She refuses to see the bishop because she has been burned by bishops (yes plural) who don't keep confidence. And she refuses to see a counselor because she says I am the one who needs to get fixed. I don't see too many options. Maybe one of you has something.

[NeuroTypical]

The only thing I can offer is this: You can't confess someone else's sins. Little good will come from you focusing on your wife's problems. The only chance you have to make your marriage work, is to focus on your own, and hope she chooses to focus on hers.

How about you go see the bishop, and you go see the counselor? They can both help you work on you.

Good luck. A 5 yr old and a 2 month old are counting on you people to mature enough to make it work.

[foreverafter]

The prophets have said that a justified divorce is rare, if ever. Why rare, when abuse & adultery is rampant? Because they know that even when one spouse may be abusive or adulterous, the other is usually not innocent either, so therefore not justified to divorce & leave the marriage. I don't mean normal everyday faults, but usually both have not kept their covenants to spend their days making the other happy & putting their spouse's wishes 1st in their life above their own needs & happiness.

There is no reason you have to ever have another fight. As you said it takes 2 to tangle. If you are humble & apologize & repent for whatever you have done to hurt her in anyway, even if what she says is not true, then she will soften & become less argumentative. Just ask her every day what she would like & then spend your days in her service. Read about Ammon & how he reacted to serve the wicked King Lamoni in the Book of Mormon. That is the greatest marriage scripture. Ask her "What wilt thou have me do, O Queen?".

Unless you have True Love you are not justified & if you do have it, you could never live without her no matter what. The husband has the obligation to keep the covenant of marriage 1st & give his daily life to doing whatever is necessary to make his wife happy & love her with a True Love & be completely faithful, mind, heart & body. Unless the husband does this, no woman is ever expected to stay with him, though Heavenly Father would prefer she does & help & inspire him to keep his covenants evenutally. You pledged you would love her like that if she would only marry you. Her vows are contingent on you keeping yours completely.

You are not innocent unless you are not committing any form of abuse (emotional, mental, verbal, financial, sexual, physical, etc.) or adultery, mental, emotional or physical or addictions. Most of us are abusive in some way without knowing it because most everyone had one or both parents who were abusive in some way or unfaithful to the other, & so we learned these things growing up. But abusiveness can easily be unlearned if one really wants to.

The prophet's teach that even if you are innocent, & you were keeping your covenants you would be so deeply in love with your wife, no matter what she does, that you would never even think of divorcing. True Love never ends, or gives up. And it is not dependent on the other loving you. To be deeply in love is a choice, no matter what our spouse is like. Your wife knows if you are deeply in love or not & if you haven't kept your vows to have True Love, this is where her pain & negative reactions to you stem from. Never consider divorce, ever. Give your life to love, serve & save your wife & children. Marriage is not about your happiness but about you making your spouse happy & giving them whatever they want.

Emotional Adultery causes one to become past feeling very fast & to rationalize divorce very easily & to feel justified in doing so. The Adversary is very cunning & makes most people who divorce, feel righteous, right & justified & that it's the right thing. Breaking our marriage covenants & spouse & children's hearts, is never ever ever the right thing or what God wants. Though the adversary gets countless people to believe they have revelation they should do it. Heavenly Father is the same with everyone & tells us to never give up on our spouse or break our marriage covenants. If a woman needs legal protection from a man, than in rare cases she may need to divorce but if she is righteous she will know she is still 100% really married & the divorce was just for financial & legal protection for her & the kids & she will keep her covenants to love & be faithful to her husband & not act like she is single & date.

Rent the new movie out "Fireproof" for help to fall back in love with your wife, to help you want to serve her & be faithful.

Good Luck, & remember, you are your family's "Superman" or supposed to be, to protect & save them in this wicked world of pain & sorrow. Your wife & children's welfare, needs, desires, & happiness must & always do come before your own. Never hurt your children with divorce, you will regret it for all eternity. And your wife, no matter what she is like, should be more precious to you than your life.

Edited April 1, 2009 by foreverafter

[WillowTheWhisp]

Do you, or have you ever, invited Heavenly Father into your marriage? If you cannot kneel down together in prayer at this present time and ask for his help to solve your problems at least go to him in prayer on your own and ask him to help you to convince your wife to eventually join you.

I will not be so presumptious as to say divorce is never acceptable as I know of 2 situations when the father and husband was a child molestor that the divorce was supported by the church,ut it hould be a last resort and not entered into lightly.

Work on yourself. Make yourself the sort of spouse you would love to be married to, but don't do it alone, let Heavenly Father help you. And stop this flirting or "emotional infidelity" with your colleague immediately. Satan will give you anything you crave but it will never benefit you.

[Clarity_over_agreement]

Don't look to your new love as an escape or a an excuse to get a divorce. We men crave variety so dont let that blind you. Dont get caught up in the thrill of the hunt.

[Semperrideo]

Thank you all for your responses and advice. Okay some points of clarification:

I like that. The thrill of the hunt. But I'm not looking for variety. The woman at work is very similar to my wife in so many respects. What I crave is attention, affection, and someone who listens to me without argument or being belittled. I wasn't hunting for it, but it showed up anyway.

I might be totally blind, prideful, insane and out of touch with reality. She keeps telling me I am. I have been through counseling twice through LDS family services and to my bishop.

In counseling it came down to me telling all I was able to tell and the counselors saying I was basically normal and my problems could only be resolved if my wife would come in with me. Her response, "You have the problem. I'm not going to counseling."

With the bishop I confessed all of my sins (this was before the affair) and he eventually told me he received revelation that I was forgiven of which I received a personal confirmation.

I know divorce is wrong. I don't want it. I can live with the emotional and physical abuse. I think it's less than ideal that my children learn that when you have interpersonal problems the way to deal with them is screaming, fighting, hitting, abandoning etc.

So after 5 years of doing what you suggest. Work on myself and hope she'll come around and reciprocate. That is the only option? Wow oops. I definitely don't have the Spirit right now.

So I need to repent and get the Spirit back so I can have patience for however long it takes for her to decide to come to the table. I'm sorry my tone is sarcastic. I better take a break. My jaw is still sore.

Edit: Okay I've calmed down. I apologize for being so rude and disrespectful. I do appreciate the time you have given me. My rudeness is unjustified. By way of explanation though, it is very difficult for me being in so much pain for years and to hear well just endure to the end. Especially when the end could be an escalation of violence that leads to inordinately traumatic events for my children.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Semperrideo

[Tarnished]

Though my situation is different there are still some similarities. I was not receiving what I thought I needed from my husband, so when another man came by offering the emotional things I needed I latched on. The relationship turned into a physical affair which I have regreted since it happened. I realized that what I was doing was wrong and confessed to my husband and to the bishop. My husband and I discussed things together, I admitted to him that I had been needing certain things from him and he admitted to me that he had been sort of keeping them from me because I was not doing the things he needed. As your wife what she would like you to do to make your marriage better. Then try your best to work on those things, after a week or so of trying to make the marriage work talk to her about your needs and wants. Express to her that you have been trying to make the marriage work, but that you really need X, Y and Z. Speak to her calmly and use, "I feel" wording instead of "you do this you do that" wording. What I have learned is a big difference comes depending on what words you use and what kind of effort you are making. It may not help at all, but from my experience so far trying your hardest suddenly makes them want to make more of an effort because they see you really trying to make things better for them. I don't know if this advice will help, but I doubt it will hurt your situation. Over everything else, pray and read scriptures together, it makes all the difference.

[lilered]

My counsel to you would be this.

First stop the fighting. It takes two to fight and it certaintly takes its toll on everyone, including the children who shouldn't hear it. So, make the effort to bridel your tongue. Let her rant if she desires, but you maintain your cool. Speak kindly and softly to her or don't speak at all. Next, I would kneel eveynite with your children and pray for your family and their needs. Invite her to participate but do it even if she doesn't want to. Get back to the basics of reading scriptures, holding family home evening, attend your meetings, pay tithing, etc.. Concern yourself with getting your own life in order and be the Priesthood example in your home for your wife and children. Pray for the spirit to soften your wifes heart, and for her welfare daily. Let the Spirit do the rest.

[Vort]

Semperrideo,

Please take all counsel you receive here with a grain of salt. Men who come here seeking counsel are typically treated rather roughly, while women who come, even if guilty of grevious sin, are treated with a great deal more respect. I don't know why this forum seems to attract so many man-haters, but so it is. Don't take such vicious comments personally; it's not you, it's them.

As for your situation, I am very sorry for you. Good for you that you recognize the emotional affair for what it is. Now you must flee from it. Keep yourself above such things. I actually agree with some of what's been said: If you can manage to keep from fighting, talk nicely to your wife even when she's bat-poop crazy, and always keep yourself above reproach, that will do a great deal toward helping things heal. Impossible, you say? No, it's not impossible, but it is very, very hard. But I believe you can do it.

DO NOT LET HER HIT YOU AGAIN. That is utterly unacceptable. If she does so, call the cops immediately. I am not kidding. Your children absolutely cannot be exposed to such things. Call the cops and insist that action be taken. Set up a surveillence camera, if you can. Above all, DO NOT RETALIATE. If she hits you ten times and you hit her back even once, you can bet your life that you, not she, will be the one in handcuffs. Sometimes life sucks, but so it is. As the man, you will ALWAYS be considered guilty until proven innocent.

I believe your marriage is not beyond salvation, and that it can still be an immeasurably great thing. But without your wife on board, that won't happen. Here's an idea:

Set a time limit for yourself, six months or a year. During that time, try your very best to be the man you should be. Never act in anger. Never speak in anger. Accept all insult and abuse (but NOT physical abuse!) from your wife without retaliation. Try to act in every situation as Jesus would act.

After your time limit is up, if things are still the same, then consider divorce. You will at least know that you did all in your power and really, truly tried to act the part of a Godly man, however imperfectly. But who knows? Maybe your wife's heart will soften and she will seek to find the beauty of your marriage along with you.

God bless you, brother. I wish you the very best as you walk this difficult road. Whatever else happens:

• Do not give up!
• Pray!
• Seek after God!

You WILL get past this, eventually. Your life can still be amazing, wonderful, beautiful, and fulfilling. Maybe you can eventually even enjoy these things with your wife. But however that turns out, keep on with your efforts, and don't give up. Seek after God; he will never abandon you.

PS Remember your name. Always find the joy in life, with your beautiful babies and with your life outside your marriage. There is much beauty to behold and to laugh with, even in a miserable situation.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Vort

[pushka]

I agree that the best course of action in any marital difficulty is to try to talk to one another, seek any guidance you can to preserve your marriage, however I think we must take care when counselling somebody to remain within an abusive (physically or sexually) relationship. It is easy to suggest that somebody who remains in that situation must call the police if/when violence occurs, but who knows if the next time violence does occur it isn't fatal? No chance then to contact the authorities..

It does sound as if there are problems on both sides of the fence in your relationship, maybe your wife has unresolved emotional issues that affect the way she responds to you, and it cannot be easy trying to persuade her to seek counselling for that..I hope that you both do find some way of getting thru your differences and that your marriage does survive, but please do take care regarding any potential violence.

[RachelleDrew]

If your wife hits you again, you need to call the cops. What if she got out of control and hit your kids by accident? What if she actually seriously injured you? You have no idea what could happen in the heat of the moment. Vort is right, she hits you again and you had better be on the phone with the cops en route. Nobody deserves to be hit, and anyone who hits their spouse needs to go to jail. I don't care if she is a girl, you don't hit your spouse.

I like the idea of making a deadline where you work on being the best husband you can be, and if it doesn't work out you can try and cut your losses. Just be careful to spare your kids of your altercations with your wife.

Should you have been fooling around? No, but you've stopped and and doing what you are supposed to do, and she's continuing to act like a shrew. Granted you can't expect her to get over it quickly or anything but you can certainly expect her to not physically abuse you and abandon her children.

I'm sorry things are tough for your right now. Be there for your children, this has got to be rough on them too.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I can live with the emotional and physical abuse.

You should not have to. That is not a marriage and no matter how much you try to shield your children from it you will not succed. They need parents who are role models for them of what family life should be or they may be in danger of growing up believing that phyical and emotional abuse is an acceptable way of controlling their spouse. It isn't. If she is in the habit of using violence against you then she needs to be restrained. Certainly call the police next time it happens if it happens again. She needs to realise that what she is doing is a criminal offence. If she'd done it to anyone else she would have been arrested.

If you continue to be the best you can possibly be, avoid extra marital relationships and work on your marriage and she still refuses to co-operate or to even be civil to you you may have to come to a point where you admit defeat. She may have serious mental/emotional problems that need medical help but she needs to realise that for herself. What you have described certainly does not sound like normal behaviour and it is not good for your children to grow up in that atmosphere. From your opening post it's clear that your son has already been deeply upset by his mother's irrational behaviour.

Semperrideo,

Please take all counsel you receive here with a grain of salt. Men who come here seeking counsel are typically treated rather roughly, while women who come, even if guilty of grevious sin, are treated with a great deal more respect. I don't know why this forum seems to attract so many man-haters, but so it is. Don't take such vicious comments personally; it's not you, it's them.

That seems a litle harsh.

People can only offer advice to the person seeking it. The only person any of us can ever change is ourselves so it may seem that although Semperrideo would like some magic formula to change his wife into a peaceful, loving, caring, compassionate individual all he has been offered is suggestions of how to improve himself - that is because there is no way he can change her. She has to want to change heself. The best way for her to want to do that is often for the other person to become more like the person they would want their spouse to be. It may sound crazy but it is often true that a soft answer turneth away wrath whilst a grievous answer stirreth up anger.

Of course if the angry person is determined to be stirred up no matter how the other behaves then it becomes nigh on impossible to do anything about it. I know it is very difficult not to either retaliate or run away but neither is a long term solution. She needs to see the problem and want to do somethng about it too. I hope that through your attitude Semperrideo, that will begin to happen.

[foreverafter]

It must be realized that her physical abuse may be a reaction of self defense, though it's not a good thing, but it's probably because of the emotional affair & unfaithfulness or other abuse happening on your part. For if we are unfaithful we probably do other abusive things as well. Unfaithfulness in any form, (feelings for someone else, porn, physical affair, divorce, abandonment etc.) is usually more abusive & a more serious sin to repent of than most physical abuse. A wife can usually sense if her husband is keeping his vows to have True Love & faithfulness for her or not, & if he is not, that is abuse on his part 1st, her self defense & anger may be justified, though should be handled differently than hitting. But the unfaithfulness must be seen as the greater sin here. The Prophets say that Adultery, in any form, is on the level of murder & thus would cause some pretty serious long lasting pain & anger in any right minded woman.

Edited April 3, 2009 by foreverafter

[Vort]

Semperrideo, please remember your name and just laugh when reading foreverafter's posts. Your wife's abusive treatment of you is not your fault. You do not have "the greater sin" just because she acts in an awful manner.

[Connie]

You may find this helpful. It is from this resource put out by the church: LDS.org - Family Table of Contents - True to the Faith

“Abuse,” True to the Faith, (2004),6–7

Abuse is the treatment of others or self in a way that causes injury or offense. It harms the mind and the spirit and often injures the body as well. It can cause confusion, doubt, mistrust, and fear. It is a violation of the laws of society and is in total opposition to the teachings of the Savior. The Lord condemns abusive behavior in any form—physical, sexual, verbal, or emotional. Abusive behavior may lead to Church discipline.

Counsel for the Abuser

If you have been abusive in any relationship, you must repent of your sin. Plead with the Lord to forgive you. Ask for forgiveness from those you have harmed. Speak with your bishop or branch president so he can help you through the repentance process and, if necessary, help you receive additional counseling or other assistance.

If feelings of anger have fueled your abusive behavior, learn to master your temper. Go to the Lord in prayer and ask Him to help you. With an eternal perspective, you will see that your anger has almost always come in response to things that are not very important.

If you have been guilty of sexual abuse, seek to discipline your mind. Remember that your thoughts have a powerful impact on your life—“as [a man] thinketh in his heart, so is he” (Proverbs 23:7). Stay away from pornography and anything else that could stimulate immoral sexual desire. Pray for the ability to “let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly” (D&C 121:45).

Help for Victims of Abuse

If you are a victim of abuse, seek help immediately. Talk with your priesthood leader, normally your bishop or branch president but at times a member of the stake or district presidency. He can help you know what to do.

Be assured that you are not to blame for the harmful behavior of others. You do not need to feel guilt. If you have been a victim of rape or other sexual abuse, whether you have been abused by an acquaintance, a stranger, or even a family member, you are not guilty of sexual sin. Know that you are innocent and that your Heavenly Father loves you.

Pray for the peace that comes only through Jesus Christ and His Atonement (see John 14:27; 16:33). The Savior has experienced all your pains and afflictions, even those caused by others, and He knows how to help you (see Alma 7:11–12). Rather than seek revenge, focus on matters you can control, such as your own outlook on life. Pray for the strength to forgive those who have hurt you.

Continue to seek help from your priesthood leader so he can guide you through the process of emotional healing. Through the blessings of the gospel, you can stop the cycle of abuse and be freed from the suffering you have experienced.

Additional references: Matthew 18:1–6; D&C 121:34–46

You may also want to read the sections on Chastity, Divorce, Family and Marriage at the above link.

You also may find this talk by Elder Dallin H. Oaks helpful: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Divorce

[RachelleDrew]

It must be realized that her physical abuse may be a reaction of self defense, though it's not a good thing, but it's probably because of the emotional affair & unfaithfulness or other abuse happening on your part. For if we are unfaithful we probably do other abusive things as well. Unfaithfulness in any form, (feelings for someone else, porn, physical affair, divorce, abandonment etc.) is usually more abusive & a more serious sin to repent of than most physical abuse. A wife can usually sense if her husband is keeping his vows to have True Love & faithfulness for her or not, & if he is not, that is abuse on his part 1st, her self defense & anger may be justified, though should be handled differently than hitting. But the unfaithfulness must be seen as the greater sin here. The Prophets say that Adultery, in any form, is on the level of murder & thus would cause some pretty serious long lasting pain & anger in any right minded woman.

Ah, here's something.

HITTING YOUR SPOUSE IS NEVER JUSTIFIED. NEVER. I don't care if he cheated on her with a flock of purple geese. You don't lay your hand on someone out of anger. What if she had killed him? I know that seems like a stretch because she's a girl, but anger and adrenaline can do crazy things to a person and i've met a lot of girls who could take down a man pretty easily.

I agree with vort on this one. Would you post something to that effect if a woman had come here saying her husband had hit her after she had an affair? Probably not.

There is no "greater sin" involved here. They have both sinned in this situation, but his wife is threatening the physical well being of her husband and her children. Which, by the way is a crime.

I can't believe the responses of some of the people here. I don't always see Vort's point of view on things, but this is just insane.

[FunkyTown]

Ah, here's something.

HITTING YOUR SPOUSE IS NEVER JUSTIFIED. NEVER. I don't care if he cheated on her with a flock of purple geese. You don't lay your hand on someone out of anger. What if she had killed him? I know that seems like a stretch because she's a girl, but anger and adrenaline can do crazy things to a person and i've met a lot of girls who could take down a man pretty easily.

I agree with vort on this one. Would you post something to that effect if a woman had come here saying her husband had hit her after she had an affair? Probably not.

There is no "greater sin" involved here. They have both sinned in this situation, but his wife is threatening the physical well being of her husband and her children. Which, by the way is a crime.

I can't believe the responses of some of the people here. I don't always see Vort's point of view on things, but this is just insane.

Yep. I have a rule in dating: If anyone ever so much as slaps me in anger, I will never ever be involved in any relationship with them again. It is ridiculous that there is this double standard. I would never council anyone to stay in a relationship with someone physically abusive.

Now, on to the next thing: You have kids. Is she abusive? If she is, dump her faster than a fat kid dumps a smartie down his throat. If she is not abusive and you're looking for sympathy(Which the 'I can't close my jaw all the way' suggests, because that symptom is temporomandibular dysfunction and is often accompanied by jaw clicking, which I have also experienced: Jaw joint problems - headaches, face pain and jaw clicking

The only time you will have difficulty closing your jaw is if she has broken your jaw, ripped your jaw open way too wide or if you suffer from TMD. 40% of all people suffer from this at some point in their life and is ridiculously unlikely to have been caused by someone punching you, unless they broke bones. So unless you're eating through a straw right now, that's not the case.

However, let's forget the dramatics. If she hit you, you can not risk either your kids or your own health. Pray about it, find an answer.

[Semperrideo]

Thanks for all the advice and prayers. I'm going to give it two months of total commitment. I've broken it off with my coworker. If she hits me again the two months ends then.

[foreverafter]

HITTING YOUR SPOUSE IS NEVER JUSTIFIED. NEVER.

In my post I said that it was not right for her to get physical, I only said her anger & pain was justified if her husband was abusive also by not being faithful. There are appropriate ways of handling pain & anger.

In reference to the greater sin, most abused women say that Emotional Abuse (including affairs, emotional or physical) are more painful & harmful than the Physical Abuse they experienced. Even Dr. Laura said she would rather someone break her child's legs than his heart. She said legs heal must faster & completely, whereas hearts may never heal completely (in this life).

I am totally against physical abuse from either spouse & feel no abuse should be tolerated & should always be dealt with immediately. But even though we may need to protect ourselves by distance or legal measures, we never need to break our covenants to our spouse or end the marriage. True Love is rare but real & is what Heavenly Father hoped we would have for each other.

[Semperrideo]

I have been unjust in my depection of my wife.... she hit me when I told her that I was having an affair (I did not clarify that it was emotional). I have gone to another counslor and he has been very insightful; I have a lot to work on. The LDS social service counslors had no concept about what I am and what I am doing. I am not sure why they just glazed over all the things this new guy picks up on.

I also failed to mention that she has been asking for divorce for 6 years because she has told me over and over again that i was not meeting her "emotional needs" and that I made her feel like a split between a"hooker and a miad" I guess I should not have ignored her pleas.

We are trying to work it out but she does not trust me, everything is extrememly fragile right now.

[lestertheemt]

First and for most I am sorry that you are going through an extreme difficult time.

I think and in MHO people in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks, but we seem to be the first ones to throw them.

Hind sight is 20/20 and at the time of your firts post you only wanted to disclose certain things....that is your right.

ok..............now of my high horse......

I am still under the belief that abuse/assult/battery is still wrong.

I would also recommend the movie "Fireproof" for both you and your wife!!!!!!!!!!! Do random acts of kindness towards her and pray for her!!!!

[Soul_Searcher]

I have been unjust in my depection of my wife.... she hit me when I told her that I was having an affair (I did not clarify that it was emotional). I have gone to another counslor and he has been very insightful; I have a lot to work on. The LDS social service counslors had no concept about what I am and what I am doing. I am not sure why they just glazed over all the things this new guy picks up on.

I also failed to mention that she has been asking for divorce for 6 years because she has told me over and over again that i was not meeting her "emotional needs" and that I made her feel like a split between a"hooker and a miad" I guess I should not have ignored her pleas.

We are trying to work it out but she does not trust me, everything is extrememly fragile right now.

What you quoted your wife as saying speaks a lot of volumes to me. In other words, you were having a physical relationship with her, getting all ur housework done and maybe not much else. Men have a habit of being selfish that way.

Whats interesting is that neither of feel you are being emotionally fulfilled. My guess is whats happened is this:

You both settled into a pattern. She kept house, you went to work. You got used to the arrangement and maybe stopped helping out round the house as much (My DH did this). Your wife, noticing this, feels like you are not supporting her, and withdraws emotionally just a little bit. You sense this and feel you are hard done by, but maybe not realise why.

The situation compounds so much that your wife withdraws from you almost completely. She feels like she has no support and feels angry and frustrated. You then feel the same as she does as she has withdrawn and crave that closeness. So now you are both feeling emotionally abandoned. You fall into arms of co-worker, and she leaves. In other words you BOTH bailed when you wern't getting what you needed.

This is just my guess. The advice given here for you to be the best person you can be is the best advice in my opinion. Bring her flowers, do the hoovering, wash-up, put the kids to bed, tell her you love her. Tell her you want this to work so much, and if she does too, then why wont she consider marriage counselling? Even go as far as to say 'honey, I know that I'm to blame for a lot of things. But I need to know how we can work on our marriage, and I cant do that unless you are there. I love you, I want you there, please.'

My family has been in similar situations. My advice to my SIL was to be the best she could so she would know she had done everything if the worst happened. Its VERY hard.

However, I would set some sort of rules. I would say that you are trying to change and if you are willing, then she has to be too. Set a limit, like 2-6 months to improve things. Hopefully this will help her to come to terms with the situation. If she ignores all of this then you have done everything you can at least.

I believe you work this out of you are both on side. If your wife is refusing then she may be angry with you for WHATEVER reason, imagined or otherwise, just or unjust. Regardless of her reasons, you need to get her on side to work it out. If this means all of the above I suggested plus more, do it. You need to assure her you want it to work by your actions as well as words. In fact, actions speak louder.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Soul_Searcher

[Elgama]

I have been unjust in my depection of my wife.... she hit me when I told her that I was having an affair (I did not clarify that it was emotional). I have gone to another counslor and he has been very insightful; I have a lot to work on. The LDS social service counslors had no concept about what I am and what I am doing. I am not sure why they just glazed over all the things this new guy picks up on.

I also failed to mention that she has been asking for divorce for 6 years because she has told me over and over again that i was not meeting her "emotional needs" and that I made her feel like a split between a"hooker and a miad" I guess I should not have ignored her pleas.

We are trying to work it out but she does not trust me, everything is extrememly fragile right now.

err I am normally a peace loving abuse is wrong type of person, however think I would have hit you and actually you probably deserved it....... if you are not honest with a counsellor you will get nothing out of it. In your earlier posts you blamed your wife for your problems and now you are blaming the counsellors for your lack of honesty.

Your wife only had a baby 2 months ago it takes about 6 weeks to feel normal again, what have you been doing to take the pressure off her? our marriage went through some problems when our 3rd child was born but my husband was a damn site more understanding, and actually looked at himself.

Your wife from your posts seems to have good reason to be angry with you, you have strayed from your vows, accused her of being abusive, emotionally cold etc, whilst using her for sex and housework. I personally feel you need to have a long hard look at yourself and make changes or you will lose her or have a very uncomfortable homelife

Soul_Searcher has given you some very good places to start

-Charley

Edited June 13, 2009 by Elgama

[ryanh]

Geesh, Vort is right. Crazy.

Semper, thank you for having the honesty and integrity to give us an update. Even with the anonymity, that took some guts to expose yourself like that. Life is a process like that for some of us, especially us stereotypical 'dumb' men. Thanks for showing us the process you are going though.

You will find that there is a very wide variety in quality of counselors out there. A person really does need to interview a few of them to find the right fit and knowledge.

What helped me was the book The Five Love Languages. If you and your wife still have an interest in meeting each other’s needs, that book will help you learn how to do it.

I’m still left wondering about the initial interaction though. Why would you be so blunt as to only label it as an “affair”, but not concurrently identify it as non-physical? She understands now what happened, right? And why would she threaten to leave “forever” in front of an older child who understood what was being talked about? Was she really intending to abandon them?

Have patience! It will take time to rebuild the trust and emotional connections. Good luck!

[its_Chet]

As a person whose marriage has been abnormally difficult, and the close friend of two remarried guys whose imperfect wives left them despite my friends' determination to make it work, I can offer some extra perspective here. Take it for what it's worth to you.

First off, I would counsel anyone reading this who is not yet married to at all costs avoid marrying anyone with bi-polar disorder or any other kind of depression. It's hard enough to live with someone without having them scream and screech at you over a mood swing that you CANNOT control or influence. No matter how happy you make them while you're courting, eventually they will be verbally and emotionally abusing you (if not also physically). Just because you are confident enough to believe you CAN take it, doesn't mean it's wise to put yourself in the situation where you are FORCED to in order to keep your marriage together. I'm not saying that people with emotional disorders don't have the right to be married, or that they're of less worth. But I can promise you that if you do marry someone whose emotional disorder is bad enough, you will find yourself in the middle of a howling maelstrom of torment and despair, through little fault of your own.

A lot of people make the mistake of assuming that only certain kinds of people are capable of physical abuse, or that only patently evil people can do it. I submit that any of God's children, even the Prophets, are capable of lashing out physically at someone if they are tormented and antagonized long enough. I recommend anyone who finds themselves being verbally or emotionally abused should get up and walk away before they find themselves retaliating in shame. I believe everyone has their breaking point, and a smart person will flee contention before they reach that breaking point. In fact, the sooner, the better.

You say your wife was perfectly willing to walk out on you AND the children? I would expect that she'd try to take the kids with her (not that that would be fair), or that she'd at least try to get joint custody. Does she even love her children? The picture you've painted so far suggests she doesn't. Anyone who is able to abandon their own children (with the exception of giving them up for adoption) is scarey, in my opinion. What callousness!

One of my friends' marriage ended after he had an affair. His wife was convinced that he was the scum of the earth. At times, it seemed he agreed with her. He was pretty down on himself, and his lamentations haunt me still. Above all, he wondered how he could have allowed himself to do it. He almost seemed like a person who'd woken up to find out what he'd done, unable to control what had happened. It became clearer to me why he did it the more I came to understand what his wife was like at home. At Church, she would seldom say hi, even if I said hi first. Once, she read an email I forwarded to my friend that she misinterpreted and didn't like, and she replied back on his email account just to say "bullcrap", and then she emailed me from her email address and ranted about the email from me. Other than that, she seemed normal to me. But my friend revealed to me only recently that she was verbally, emotionally, and physically abusive to him (although I knew a little about the physical part and that on at least one occasion he retaliated). The way I see it, she had just worn him down the point that he didn't care about right and wrong anymore, he just wanted to be treated kindly. The woman who seduced him filled that need. This friend of mine has since remarried (not the woman from the affair), and he jubilantly proclaims that he didn't know it could be like this. He had been lead to believe that all women were crazy and he just had to live with it. He marvles that he has found a woman who treats him with respect and kindness.

My other friend's wife, from what I gather, simply lost all respect for him over the fact that he was poor and seemingly somewhat lax in his testimony. Perhaps about some things he is lax, but I can assure you that he is a special person with hidden spiritual strength. She was in the process of leaving him right around Valentines Day. Things were looking bleak, but hope wasn't completely lost for him. He felt he hadn't completely lost her yet. They spent the night together on Valentines Day after going on a date, and she moved out the next day. He got the papers for the divorce soon after. I think the biggest problem she had with him was his slow decline into inactivity. She should have stuck with him and helped him get back into activity, but instead she lost all respect for him and abandoned him.

My friends aren't perfect. But they didnt' deserve what happened to them. I imagine you don't deserve what you've been through either.

Something I can tell you from my own experience is that love can appear dead when it is only sleeping. This is true for all loved ones, whether we get along with them or not. Our feelings can seem dimmed to us, and then something happens and we suddenly remember that we do in fact love that person very much. I think if it weren't for this, maybe we wouldn't be so strongly encouraged to avoid divorce. Your wife has the ability to fall back in love with you. She has to choose to open her heart.

Ultimately, your marriage will survive or end based on what she chooses. It's obvious you're willing to stick it out, though I can't say how committed you are to it.

I haven't got any real answers for you, but I can tell you that if you've accurately described her here, she's already made the decision and you'll probably be seeing the papers soon enough. If I were you, when you get them, I'd show them to the Bishop and say that given all the abuse, you'd be relieved to sign them. But don't punish yourself by sinning with another woman just because you're wife treats you like garbage. That's not geting even with her, it's harming yourself. Don't be your own enemy on top of the abuse from your wife. I strongly recommend you explain all this to the Bishop. It'll be a lot easier for you to move forward in whatever way you need to once your slate's clean.